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1.4.3 is making me rethink this game.
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Ohioastro✭✭✭✭It doesn't help at all that the people so passionate about their warp-speed vampires appear unable to understand why others might find this to be a problem.
You can still move just as fast; you just have to be visible to do it. If that's a deal-breaker, it just may be an indication that this ability is a lot more powerful than you're admitting, even to yourself. And that, by extension, there are actually real balance arguments against it.
I have yet to see a response to the one problem that, by itself, made this change essential. In PvP you could move around the battlefield both extremely quickly and invisibly. This is a huge, huge tactical advantage. It basically demands that everyone who is serious about PvP become a vampire to be competitive. And that is a big problem in a MMO.13 -
loudent✭✭✭NeoXanthus wrote: »Issue with patch 1.4.3
“Vampires - in myth, and legend, are purported to be the fastest moving 'creature'
I fought a lot of vampires in Skyrim and I don't recall them being all that fast.
Myths and legends don't matter in a fictional world with it's own myths and legends.
5 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hey Neo, I couldn't possibly agree with you more! I know you're getting grief from the "oh no not this topic again" crowd but screw them. Every single person who has been ticked off by this totally senseless nerf needs to make their own thread until that is ALL anyone can see when they log onto the forums. Seriously, ZoS NEEDS to know how badly they've stepped in it this time. Quite frankly, this set was the only thing that made my vampire FEEL like a vampire. The vampire feeding animation is ridiculous. The fact that they seem to feel the need to yell at the top of their lungs before going into mist form is ALSO ridiculous. Our vampires are supposed to be stronger at night....but nights in this game are only 2 hours long as opposed to the 4 hour day. And then there's the looks of the various Stages. We become hideous monsters unless we run out and feed every 30 MINUTES. BUT...here's the kicker... NO ONE SEEMS TO NOTICE. Other vampires don't even notice that you're a vampire. Stage 4 looking like you're going to go berserk and randomly start ripping hearts out of passerby.... and nobody notices. NOBODY. I realize they probably really DIDN'T want to put vampires in the game and it was fan support constantly reminding them that ES has ALWAYS had playable vampires that got them to cave in. And they've felt like a grudging afterthought ever since. They are NOT well done. And not only does it seem as if ZoS has ZERO interest in improving them or making them more flexible and interesting, they seem hell bent on destroying ANYTHING that actually makes them enjoyable to play. So rage on my friend and I will rage right along with you!PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!5 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭It doesn't help at all that the people so passionate about their warp-speed vampires appear unable to understand why others might find this to be a problem.
You can still move just as fast; you just have to be visible to do it. If that's a deal-breaker, it just may be an indication that this ability is a lot more powerful than you're admitting, even to yourself. And that, by extension, there are actually real balance arguments against it.
I have yet to see a response to the one problem that, by itself, made this change essential. In PvP you could move around the battlefield both extremely quickly and invisibly. This is a huge, huge tactical advantage. It basically demands that everyone who is serious about PvP become a vampire to be competitive. And that is a big problem in a MMO.
No you can't you can't move around like that if people discover you or you are engaged in combat. You are not moving quickly around any battlefield.
You slow down immediately.
And no, I can't move just as fast if I sprint, etc. I have to use a horse, which defeats the purpose of this fun thing. There is no tactical advantage. I have done the same things undiscovered and with great ease using a horse, but it was less fun.
There is no balance issue to it. Just because a few people hate that vampires exist in this game and that they have something that they do not, doesn't mean it's an issue that needs to be addressed.
People like you wrecked my gameplay because you are so busy being a bitter ball and angst that you couldn't appreciate that someone else might want to play differently than you.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.8 -
Ohioastro✭✭✭✭I didn't campaign on the forums about this, so anything that I did about this change had to involve telepathy.
And your answer misses the point - if you die you return quickly; if you disengage, you travel fast. It's an important edge even if you don't retain it in the middle of combat.
However, I am a strong supporter of this change, just as I strongly supported removing the loot pinata delve bosses (people howled about losing their endless supply of drops with that change too); and people also howled about losing the bolt escape with scroll fun n' games.
Things like this are really, really obviously not intended. Whenever you hit a spot where the rewards are far better than they anywhere else odds are excellent that it's a glitch. Whenever you can do some odd combination that defies the pattern everywhere else in the game (e.g. you speed up by crouching and sneaking) then it isn't working.
Now in single player games I'm totally OK with leaving things like that alone. If you want to make 100% chameleon armor in Oblivion, go for it! But if I can't compete with you in multiplayer games: problem.
I know it was fun and it stinks to lose fun things. It's not-fun to be on the receiving end of those things, unfortunately.7 -
NeoXanthus✭✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »NeoXanthus wrote: »Vampires - in myth, and legend, are purported to be the fastest moving 'creature' (that I know of anyway). I cannot understand this reaction to “fix” the speed finding out that vampires can move faster than anyone, but the decision to be a vampire does have its drawbacks. Everything has a positive and negative.
@NeoXanthus, I dare say you, like many of us, received 'the gift' for purposes of playing a Vampire...not the bonuses it gave or the power, at least not directly.
To be more clear, had there been a non-vamp way to have the same skills, passives, etc, you strike me as the type that would still have gone the route of vampire (even with its drawbacks).
Vamps are supposed to be powerful. People forget this. We 'miss' some of the traditional downsides (sunlight, for instance). We also miss some of the traditional powers: Bat/wolf form, summoning, the ability to Fear.
Heck, we don't even get a taunt in the vampire line, and mystform - that is, the form of myst, can still get hung up on blade of grass or widely spaced prison bars?NeoXanthus wrote: »To give some background on myself. I was not a MMO player when I started playing ESO. Personally I have a very long history of playing games on PCs some 32+ years now. I started playing PC games on an IBM PC 5150 turbo XT clone back in 1982 with an 8088 CPU and today through many upgrades have an x79 4960x with 3d surround 4way quad SLI titans with 1 titan black for dedicated Physx.
Started in 8 bit land, where my total memory was smaller than my hard drive cache currently is. Your tenure is still earned, sir.NeoXanthus wrote: »2.) He said watch your play time because he said he knows me and I will lose myself within the game and this will cause wife aggravation.
This is the sign of an immersive game, however much people may complain about its flaws.
And to be fair, your wife cannot expect you to own a rig like that and not occasionally take it out for spin, now can she. As good fortune has it, she loves you very much.
NeoXanthus wrote: »When I have seen things nerfed in the past it was small correction here or there nothing in my opinion earth shattering or changed the game play completely for anyone. After patch 1.4.3 unless something changes to revert the damage done I may quit.
From the very first time I have found the Steed stone I have never picked another.
Please fix this and restore the Dark Stalker stacking ability.
This is what should have happened. A simple speed cap would have sufficed. They needed to adjust it, not cut it off at the knees.
Personally, I never noticed a difference from the Steed, testing with Teamspeak timed races with a fellow DK.
Lastly, my friend, I'm afraid you wish in vain. It's easier to chop a limb off than to grow it back, so the change likely is what it is.
I hope you do not let this, alone, deter you from a wonderful game with many possibilities.AlienDiplomat wrote: »I fought against this for WEEKS with LOGIC, INTEGRITY, and COMPASSION.
In the end ZOS sided with the selfish jerks parroting for nerfs to this like mindless lemmings, who, truth be told, just wanted to screw up a cool feature that added absolutely NO advantage whatsoever because they personally had an unrelated rage vendetta against vampires in general.
It would be like giving little Johnny a tasty treet for smearing his poop all over the wall. I can't BELIEVE that ZOS is catering to this behavior.
@AlienDiplomat, we've seen each other on the forums enough to know this is sadly where you went wrong. Those three things don't often hold the weight here they should.
The mindless vendetta continues - just look at the new duplicate threads.
I concur with you. I do.
But to use your analogy, you, sir, brought a gun to a poop fight.
There is no reason to be had and there is no way to win this one.
Continue to hold the flame high, though. Maybe someday we'll get through to them.
Dark tidings to you both.
Humbly,
One of your dark brethren.
I am humbled by your kind words. Also the fact that you even know about 8 bit computing makes me think you have be around too. I hoping people that can make a difference from ZOS actually do read this form and it really is not the equivalent of pounding sand.3 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I didn't campaign on the forums about this, so anything that I did about this change had to involve telepathy.
And your answer misses the point - if you die you return quickly; if you disengage, you travel fast. It's an important edge even if you don't retain it in the middle of combat.
However, I am a strong supporter of this change, just as I strongly supported removing the loot pinata delve bosses (people howled about losing their endless supply of drops with that change too); and people also howled about losing the bolt escape with scroll fun n' games.
Things like this are really, really obviously not intended. Whenever you hit a spot where the rewards are far better than they anywhere else odds are excellent that it's a glitch. Whenever you can do some odd combination that defies the pattern everywhere else in the game (e.g. you speed up by crouching and sneaking) then it isn't working.
Now in single player games I'm totally OK with leaving things like that alone. If you want to make 100% chameleon armor in Oblivion, go for it! But if I can't compete with you in multiplayer games: problem.
I know it was fun and it stinks to lose fun things. It's not-fun to be on the receiving end of those things, unfortunately.
1) we were repeatedly told it was intended. It was definitely not a glitch.
2) Actually, if I die, I just spawn at a FC that was already way close by. And if it is a matter of returning quickly in a spot where there is no FC, it would be faster to use a horse, rather than cripple myself with that particular set, or skill morph. Otherwise, I arrive not only crippled, but low on essential stamina. Any advantage you can come up with still suffers from the fact that I take a huge hit everywhere else to achieve that advantage, and the fact that any actual combat gains are negligible.
It sounds like you don't actually know what you are talking about. But you still have to let your opinion be heard.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.9 -
NeoXanthus✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »Hey Neo, I couldn't possibly agree with you more! I know you're getting grief from the "oh no not this topic again" crowd but screw them. Every single person who has been ticked off by this totally senseless nerf needs to make their own thread until that is ALL anyone can see when they log onto the forums. Seriously, ZoS NEEDS to know how badly they've stepped in it this time. Quite frankly, this set was the only thing that made my vampire FEEL like a vampire. The vampire feeding animation is ridiculous. The fact that they seem to feel the need to yell at the top of their lungs before going into mist form is ALSO ridiculous. Our vampires are supposed to be stronger at night....but nights in this game are only 2 hours long as opposed to the 4 hour day. And then there's the looks of the various Stages. We become hideous monsters unless we run out and feed every 30 MINUTES. BUT...here's the kicker... NO ONE SEEMS TO NOTICE. Other vampires don't even notice that you're a vampire. Stage 4 looking like you're going to go berserk and randomly start ripping hearts out of passerby.... and nobody notices. NOBODY. I realize they probably really DIDN'T want to put vampires in the game and it was fan support constantly reminding them that ES has ALWAYS had playable vampires that got them to cave in. And they've felt like a grudging afterthought ever since. They are NOT well done. And not only does it seem as if ZoS has ZERO interest in improving them or making them more flexible and interesting, they seem hell bent on destroying ANYTHING that actually makes them enjoyable to play. So rage on my friend and I will rage right along with you!
Thank you for your comments. Regardless of what others have said just to go quietly and not say anything I think would be doing the community a disservice. I like your comments on vampires, I would be happy with just the speed returned but to have improvements in other areas would be awesome.2 -
ThisOnePosts✭✭✭✭✭While I had tested this out I did not use this set combo on my vamp for long due to the benefits of having other stacking set bonuses that provide much better combat bonuses.
However, I definitely believe ZOS really straight either lied to us or made a knee-jerk reaction change without really investigating this for themselves or seeing how the MAJORITY of their paying community was feeling about it.
Their take on vamps and werewolves in general are almost a joke. Vamps have too much weakness at the moment and yes while some benefits, it's just not worth it. It was worth it before the nerfs rolled in (not talking about the bat swarm spam --- that definitely wasn't right). Werewolves, have some upcoming changes which don't look exciting whatsoever given how powerful FG and poison skills are versus it.
They need to bring in some outside, creative design in order to fix these classes and this potential gateway to a disaster that is preventing set bonuses from stacking with passives. Yes, this is a bad change for everyone as now any nicely stacking passive/set bonuses can be at risk at any moment more so than if they had left it alone. They are preventing vampires from sneaking faster than humans ---- which provided very little combat advantage. In fact, go make yourself a 5 piece light seducer set and slap on 5 pieces of warlock and you will be much more powerful. Now with the new sets released, there are even MORE stacking bonuses out there than what I mentioned which provide WAY MORE combat advantage than vamp/Night's silence pre-1.43 could've ever dreamed of.
The thing with that set and passive stacking, was it felt more like a vampire than vampires actually feel like in this game. Now vamps are back to being mostly useless. Anyone dying to bat swarm is a total noob, let me just get that out in the clear. The amount of damage you take from fire, resist or no resist --- makes it not worth it as speed was the only thing vamps had going for it and that was taken away when they nerfed Mist tremendously. This set combo in my opinion seemed to give that feeling that my character was a Vampire again, however I am glad I decided to cure Vampirism before this mess was announced (as I didn't care about the speed bonuses, I preferred better combat bonuses). But just because I didn't care for the speed bonuses, if I was deciding to keep vampire it would've been for that alone. So I can understand how people feel.
Drop vamp, drop WW, watch all the noobs in Cyrodiil who rely on FG skills and fire/poison spamming start having much tougher fights on their hands. I was dangerous as a vamp and even as a ww... now my cured, human main is a killing machine with no additional weaknesses that the Vamp/WW paths provided.3 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »I didn't campaign on the forums about this, so anything that I did about this change had to involve telepathy.
And your answer misses the point - if you die you return quickly; if you disengage, you travel fast. It's an important edge even if you don't retain it in the middle of combat.
However, I am a strong supporter of this change, just as I strongly supported removing the loot pinata delve bosses (people howled about losing their endless supply of drops with that change too); and people also howled about losing the bolt escape with scroll fun n' games.
Things like this are really, really obviously not intended. Whenever you hit a spot where the rewards are far better than they anywhere else odds are excellent that it's a glitch. Whenever you can do some odd combination that defies the pattern everywhere else in the game (e.g. you speed up by crouching and sneaking) then it isn't working.
Now in single player games I'm totally OK with leaving things like that alone. If you want to make 100% chameleon armor in Oblivion, go for it! But if I can't compete with you in multiplayer games: problem.
I know it was fun and it stinks to lose fun things. It's not-fun to be on the receiving end of those things, unfortunately.
1) we were repeatedly told it was intended. It was definitely not a glitch.
2) Actually, if I die, I just spawn at a FC that was already way close by. And if it is a matter of returning quickly in a spot where there is no FC, it would be faster to use a horse, rather than cripple myself with that particular set, or skill morph. Otherwise, I arrive not only crippled, but low on essential stamina. Any advantage you can come up with still suffers from the fact that I take a huge hit everywhere else to achieve that advantage, and the fact that any actual combat gains are negligible.
It sounds like you don't actually know what you are talking about. But you still have to let your opinion be heard.
I sound like he's in the "I hate vamps because of spamswarm" crowd, and like they do, does not understand the weaknesses of vampires when not using that playstyle. He talks about gaining an advantage without weakness, without understanding the weaknesses.
Yes, the undetectability and speed are strong, maybe overly so, but any significant advantages gained were balanced nicely with the weaknesses. Offensively, you do less damage, and any positional advantage from the speed is mostly a time difference. It was also one of the only things that made escaping with cloak viable, as cloak is so easy to counter.
I have seen very few viable arguments against the stacking, most were 'it doesn't make sense'
The good ones;
1. Everyone will use this to get places safely.
There are several counters to this, like magelight and chokepoints. Mage light breaks the bonus immediately, and moving through a chokepoint is hard even with an invisible pot. You never know where exactly a ganking group may stake out.
2. You can hit a scroll carrier In the middle of his zerg.
And then what? A few second delay? If you actually get him, the the zerg wasn't protecting him enough.
3. You can put up camps before a scroll zerg.
I did this with my fast horse long before I used the set.
4. I use it to move somewhere then switch out.
This is the best way I've seen an argument against it. But even then, as per #1, it's not 100%. I have been caught, and we have caught others using this tactic.
I really wish people would lay out why exactly it doesn't make sense. Maybe someone did, but I have not seen it.This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!3 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭One of the longest posts OP just to complain about a fix to a bug that allowed for unintended speed4 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭One of the longest posts OP just to complain about a fix to a bug that allowed for unintended speed
It. was. not. a. bug.
How much clearer can this be made?
I feel like either the detractors have a problem with reading comprehension, or they are trolling, or both.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.8 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
Hmmm don't know how narrow you are defining bug lets call it an unintended result from coding this mechanic that is now fixed
Is that better precious ?
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smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
Hmmm don't know how narrow you are defining bug lets call it an unintended result from coding this mechanic that is now fixed
Is that better precious ?
No, that is a lie also.
It is an intended feature. It was brought up during testing and multiple times the devs said it was working as intended. Same for when it was brought up after testing. They just flip flopped because of a few whiners.
Why do people post their opinions when they haven't bothered to get the actual details on the problem?Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.7 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
Hmmm don't know how narrow you are defining bug lets call it an unintended result from coding this mechanic that is now fixed
Is that better precious ?
No, that is a lie also.
It is an intended feature. It was brought up during testing and multiple times the devs said it was working as intended. Same for when it was brought up after testing. They just flip flopped because of a few whiners.
Why do people post their opinions when they haven't bothered to get the actual details on the problem?
Wow
Some people have stubbornness running through their veins.
It was not intended - hence the change
It's like saying there was no rain while standing in a giant rain puddle
To suggest otherwise is crazy
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smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
Hmmm don't know how narrow you are defining bug lets call it an unintended result from coding this mechanic that is now fixed
Is that better precious ?
No, that is a lie also.
It is an intended feature. It was brought up during testing and multiple times the devs said it was working as intended. Same for when it was brought up after testing. They just flip flopped because of a few whiners.
Why do people post their opinions when they haven't bothered to get the actual details on the problem?
Wow
Some people have stubbornness running through their veins.
It was not intended - hence the change
It's like saying there was no rain while standing in a giant rain puddle
To suggest otherwise is crazy
Oh FFS
Dude, they stated repeatedly it was intended. It was brought up multiple times and multiple times they said it was INTENDED.
Is english your native tongue?Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.5 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Don't blame her for ZOS flip-flopping.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job1 -
Aenra✭✭✭✭you have provided your own answer
"I was not a MMO player when I started playing ESO"
it is called balance. Balance because we have both PvE and PvP. What you describe may have a sense (to the OP), but it has no place in an MMO that has PvP. These 3 lines say it all am afraid.. had this been a proper ESO-styled MMO, with no PvP, they had wonders up their sleeves, and assets galore ready for use. But you see, someone needed a job, had a good CV, and a way of convincing people. So.. you got what we got
now that aside, this patch made me reconsider as well!
moving on from 'i am enjoying it' i am most definitely back to 'loving this'know why?
Realistic expectations, knowledge of the medium. Key to success in life
Pride, honour and purity1 -
if you cant understand the balance problem of sneaking as fast as the fastest horse ( which takes more then a month to upgrade) then maybe mmo's are not for you. its not personal.1
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smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »if you cant understand the balance problem of sneaking as fast as the fastest horse ( which takes more then a month to upgrade) then maybe mmo's are not for you. its not personal.
There is an entire thread laying out how you can not sneak faster or even equivalent to the fastest horse, but let's ignore that and spread more misinformation.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.3 -
MornaBaine wrote: »liquid_wolf wrote: »I don't have a problem with the vampire speed stacking.
It would have been a unique build, so long as it was hurting in other aspects like survivability.
A glass dagger than moves faster than horses? Sure... provided it can't survive too easily if it gets caught.
Which was exactly what we were til the nerf.
but not really, i could be a templar mage vamp build and have multiple shields up after attacking( opposite of glass cannon) but still quaff an invisible potion before dying and be impossible to find because i have basically mounted and can "sneak" run VERY far.
thankfully no more, its reasonable to try an escape but unreasonable to flee the scene much faster then anyone can run while opponents are not even allowed to mount because they are stuck in combat with you.2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NeoXanthus wrote: »Issue with patch 1.4.3
“Vampires - in myth, and legend, are purported to be the fastest moving 'creature'
I fought a lot of vampires in Skyrim and I don't recall them being all that fast.
Myths and legends don't matter in a fictional world with it's own myths and legends.
Vampire Lord form can freakin' book.
Going back to Morrowind and Oblivion, Vampires did get a bonus to the speed stat. One of the clans in Morrowind actually got a +40 to speed, IIRC.2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NeoXanthus wrote: »Does ZOS ever revert changes? Even bad ones?
Yes. We can harvest guts again.NeoXanthus wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »Where were you people while the forum warriors were QQing about these sets and convincing ZOS to nerf it into the ground and pretend like it was a bug?
Happy people don't go to the forums though, I guess.
That is exactly it! I was very happy and having a blast. This is the first time I have been on the forum. My good friend rather than telling me I told you so is empathetic which makes me think he is even a better friend than I originally thought. Now I am looking for what else is out there.
My advice? Don't go anywhere. MMOs are like this. There will always be ups and downs. They're not like normal single player games, where the game releases, basically as is, and never changes outside of expansions or DLC.
They are always, constantly, changing and evolving. This means that things you like will get broken, or nerfed, and new things will emerge. I mean, as the vampires got kicked in the teeth (and actually my werewolf too, because she's a nightblade that uses the Night's Silence set) werewolfs also had their ultimate cost reduced by half, and gorge got upgraded to restore a lot more of the transform bar.
The devs giveth, and the devs taketh away.
Stick with it. Even if the speed nerf doesn't get reversed, you'll find new things to be entertained by, and in an MMO it's never just you. There's an entire community out there that's been through the exact same nerfs and redesigns you've seen. It creates a fantastic sense of camaraderie you'll never find elsewhere, especially if you jump ship looking for a new game.Edited by starkerealm on September 16, 2014 11:31PM2 -
RSram✭✭✭✭✭I hope you are using your computer system for more than gaming; like making hot sexy cyborg women, otherwise it's total overkill. Your gaming system cost more than my truck!
I'd been using a second generation I7 extreme (overkill) with a GeForce 680 GTX, 24G of ram (overkill) playing games at 2560 x 1440 and max setting with no problems with the exception of ESO where I had to turn the shadow setting down to medium due to stuttering.
WAIT! I just figured out why many of else are having problems with stuttering, its not the shadow settings - ITS YOU! and your TOO damn fast computer choking the ESO server. Slow that computer down so the ESO server (a Timex Sinclair) can sync with your system
P.S. If you don't know what a Timex Sinclair is take a peak, if you do, you should start looking at cemetery plots.4 -
indigoblades✭✭✭dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »if you cant understand the balance problem of sneaking as fast as the fastest horse ( which takes more then a month to upgrade) then maybe mmo's are not for you. its not personal.
i cant understand that ...................... and ur statement is false .... its sneaking slightly faster than a very slow horse or a sprinting player.
1
