Should Vampires be KoS to Guards at Stage 4?

GaiusCastricius · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

It's a PvE gameplay issue.

So you want PvE to become PvP ?

MornaBaine · September 2014

GaiusCastricius wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

It's a PvE gameplay issue.

So you want PvE to become PvP ?

I think maybe people don't understand what is being asked for. There are really 2 separate issues, only one of which is actually under discussion here. Stage 4 vampires being KoS to city guards does not have any PvP involved. It is strictly a PvE thing.

What people are getting confused about is that some players have also spoken of wanting a bounty to be incurred (which WOULD initiate PvP) when vampires feed on NPC Townies. That doesn't have anything to do with their Stage. Stage 4 vamps do not get flagged for PvP, they merely become KoS to city guard NPCs. To incur a bounty you have to actually engage in a criminal activity... which is what attacking a townie to feed on them would be classed as.

timidobserver · September 2014

I would be fine with KOS from guards for stage 4 vampsvamps. It would make things interesting.

Lokryn · September 2014

I play a vampire and yes we should be KOS for guards at level 4. There is a lack of risk vs reward for vampires. If you don't want to have to deal with it, get yourself cured. This would help balance vampire population.

This also should apply to werewolves when transformed.

LadyShauna · September 2014

Seems like a cool fun way of things at first, but I can see it getting tiresome and troublesome very quickly. I won't have the patience for that after a few days.

BloodStorm · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Ragefist wrote: »

I am afraid lore cannot be used to justify this change, as for kids "Skyrim = Lore" and Bethesda already destroyed any immersion there for sake of appeasing kids

Generally kids want all the benefits but no restrictions. Forget the fact that feeding before you enter settlement would only take you a minute, as much time as when you enter bank to pickup something. Kids simply want everything easymode

You can already see this by raging about the stealth speed fix. They abused this obviously broken mechanic and it made them feel cool and leet so now they keep trying to justify it.

Unfortunately I have forseen this even before beta, as soon as vampire/ww were announced by devs. Remember how hard was to cure yourself in Morrowind, how it was in Oblivion and .... ok lets forget Skyrim.

As much as I would love to see this Morna, I seriously doubt ZOS would do that to anger the kids, largest customer base

Since the Night's Silence on vampires broke the second you entered combat and didn't help you much IN COMBAT at all, there was no reason to nerf it. THAT was ALSO done to appease the crying kiddies because they weren't willing to give up armor sets that gave them combat advantages but resented that they couldn't have those advantages AND move with, dare I say it?... VAMPIRE-like preternatural speed. Trust me, my Night's Silence set did NOT confer any uber-leet advantages to me in Cyrodil. I die plenty! LOL What DID it do for me? It gave me FUN and made it feel like I was actually playing a vampire. But frankly, this is another topic and one for which there are already numerous other threads.

As to the topic at hand, I really hope ZoS does not permit this crowd to ruin this game as I have seen them do to so many other MMOs. Games end up chasing this demographic simply because it is being perceived as large but what they fail to realize is that these people are locusts. They will gobble up all a game's resources as devs keep scrambling to push out new content for them to chew through almost instantly and then demand more while neglecting core fixes and, I dare say, yes, the "fluff" that adds detail, immersion and enjoyment to a game and makes it feel finished and complex. And once these locusts have gobbled up all the resources a game has to give, they are off to the next shiny field/game without a thought to the decimation they have left behind. And another game with a ton of potential goes down in flames because a greedy company can't wrap their heads around the fact that they CANNOT build customer loyalty with this desperately sought after demographic.

Epic post. Very nice.

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2014

Yes they should be KoS to guards at rank 4. But the ranks should grant much more strength than what they do and the time between feeding should be a lot longer. I think some of the abilities shouldn't even be available unless you are at a certain stage of vampirism. You would see a lot less zerging batswarms if people where attacked by their own guards at stage 4. It might actually make vampirism rare again.

MornaBaine · September 2014

LadyShauna wrote: »

Seems like a cool fun way of things at first, but I can see it getting tiresome and troublesome very quickly. I won't have the patience for that after a few days.

But it would be SUPER easy to avoid actually. Almost every city hub has some conveniently placed NPC bad guys just outside it or very nearby. You go there, you snack, you get to Stage 3 in one feeding, you skip on in to town to do your shopping and, at "worst" (if ZoS is cool and actually implements this kind of thing) a few Townies give you stink eye and lip off to you...kinda like a lot of them already do. MAYBE the guards tell you they're keeping an eye on you and to watch your step. Now if you snacked twice or three times before merrily skipping into town, nobody notices you are anything other than just another happy go lucky albino. Problem solved.

LadyShauna · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

LadyShauna wrote: »

Seems like a cool fun way of things at first, but I can see it getting tiresome and troublesome very quickly. I won't have the patience for that after a few days.

But it would be SUPER easy to avoid actually. Almost every city hub has some conveniently placed NPC bad guys just outside it or very nearby. You go there, you snack, you get to Stage 3 in one feeding, you skip on in to town to do your shopping and, at "worst" (if ZoS is cool and actually implements this kind of thing) a few Townies give you stink eye and lip off to you...kinda like a lot of them already do. MAYBE the guards tell you they're keeping an eye on you and to watch your step. Now if you snacked twice or three times before merrily skipping into town, nobody notices you are anything other than just another happy go lucky albino. Problem solved.

Touche, maybe there is something to this after all, you're right that it's not too inconvenient to stay out of stage 4, I forgot that little detail, haha...

This certainly would give us a more vampirey feel to the game, NPCs actually noticing us for the nocturnal abominations that we are. But I also like the idea that we can appear as ordinary citizens to them in the prior stages, this makes me feel less ugly and vainy than I currently look.

GaiusCastricius · September 2014

I disagree in any case, there should not be any consequences for others to play a vampire, you wouldn't kick out werewolf players for being too hairy, plus to invite something like that into ESO would have to bring in other things like, player from other pacts going into the enemy pacts PvE area and being treated differently (Most likely violently)

Kastle.Bb14_ESO · September 2014

GaiusCastricius wrote: »

I disagree in any case, there should not be any consequences for others to play a vampire, you wouldn't kick out werewolf players for being too hairy, plus to invite something like that into ESO would have to bring in other things like, player from other pacts going into the enemy pacts PvE area and being treated differently (Most likely violently)

Actually I would love that.
I play an Altmer, but in the Ebon heart pact and doing a number of quests where the NPCs are all trashing high elves but saying how happy they are to see me is always awkward. I know it's way too much to ask and it will never get implemented, but I'd like the game a lot better if everyone was suspect of me and slow to trust.

MornaBaine · September 2014

GaiusCastricius wrote: »

I disagree in any case, there should not be any consequences for others to play a vampire, you wouldn't kick out werewolf players for being too hairy, plus to invite something like that into ESO would have to bring in other things like, player from other pacts going into the enemy pacts PvE area and being treated differently (Most likely violently)

There SHOULD totally be consequences to playing a vampire. YOU EXIST BY KILLING PEOPLE AND DRINKING THEIR BLOOD. No consequences for that? What are you, a sociopath? LOL In the other ES games you could actually be sort of a "good" vampire and feed off sleeping people without killing them. Not so in ESO because that apparently would have been too much trouble to code in once they decided to go ahead and give us vampires after all. Then they saddle us with hideous monstrous looks...which apparently NPCs are completely unable to see. This state of affairs is totally immersion breaking for me. And yes, werewolves, in their werewolf form, should totally be KoS to guards as well and Townies should run shrieking away from them!

MornaBaine · September 2014

LadyShauna wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

LadyShauna wrote: »

Seems like a cool fun way of things at first, but I can see it getting tiresome and troublesome very quickly. I won't have the patience for that after a few days.

But it would be SUPER easy to avoid actually. Almost every city hub has some conveniently placed NPC bad guys just outside it or very nearby. You go there, you snack, you get to Stage 3 in one feeding, you skip on in to town to do your shopping and, at "worst" (if ZoS is cool and actually implements this kind of thing) a few Townies give you stink eye and lip off to you...kinda like a lot of them already do. MAYBE the guards tell you they're keeping an eye on you and to watch your step. Now if you snacked twice or three times before merrily skipping into town, nobody notices you are anything other than just another happy go lucky albino. Problem solved.

Touche, maybe there is something to this after all, you're right that it's not too inconvenient to stay out of stage 4, I forgot that little detail, haha...

This certainly would give us a more vampirey feel to the game, NPCs actually noticing us for the nocturnal abominations that we are. But I also like the idea that we can appear as ordinary citizens to them in the prior stages, this makes me feel less ugly and vainy than I currently look.

Exactly! At Stage 4 we should always stand revealed as the very scary monsters we actually are. That state represents a starving vampire for pete's sake...do you think people should feel SAFE around that? LOL But PRIOR to Stage 4 we should totally be able to mitigate our looks, either through deceptive magic or advanced vampiric abilities that may not be available until Vamp level 10. While lore states that Cyrodilic vampires are masters of disguising their looks and live among the human population, there is no lore that outright states that no other vampiric strains can do the same. So adding the ability to change your looks (whether that be a longer Stage 1 appearance or an illusion that grants you the look of a normal human) can definitely be done in a lore-friendly manner. But I digress....that's a different thread. LOL At any rate, combine this ability with KOS to guards at Stage 4 and you FINALLY have a vampire that actually feels like you're playing a vampire!

chipputer · September 2014

I would only agree with this suggestion, and hesitantly, if they increased the timer for each stage and made stage 4 actually take quite a while to reach (I'm talking three or four times the time between stages). When I was a vampire, before I realized that it wasn't for me, I would often forget to feed and find myself at stage 4 before I realized it. Wouldn't really enjoy going to cook dinner, talking to a friend or two while I eat and /lute, and then end up walking into town a few hours later only to realize that the short time limit left me in a KoS state.

Also, I 100% agree that werewolves should be feared/attacked by NPCs while in form. It annoys me every time I transform. I've killed enemies and fed on their corpses right in front of people and they've cheered and thanked me for freeing them.

naatokb14_ESO · September 2014

I agree with the OP on this.
All the relevant reasons have already been stated.

GnatB · September 2014

Of course they should. Vampirism needs far more of it's ES lore downsides implemented, to make it the disease that should be cured that it normally is.

MornaBaine · September 2014

chipputer wrote: »

I would only agree with this suggestion, and hesitantly, if they increased the timer for each stage and made stage 4 actually take quite a while to reach (I'm talking three or four times the time between stages). When I was a vampire, before I realized that it wasn't for me, I would often forget to feed and find myself at stage 4 before I realized it. Wouldn't really enjoy going to cook dinner, talking to a friend or two while I eat and /lute, and then end up walking into town a few hours later only to realize that the short time limit left me in a KoS state.

Also, I 100% agree that werewolves should be feared/attacked by NPCs while in form. It annoys me every time I transform. I've killed enemies and fed on their corpses right in front of people and they've cheered and thanked me for freeing them.

There's a push/pull here with this. PvE folk tend to want longer stages whereas most PvP folk seem to WANT to be on Stage 4 all the time and have already screamed at the very idea that there should be ANYTHING preventing them from being in Stage 4 with zero consequences. I have come to the rather disheartening conclusion that ZoS listens to them over everyone else as this latest update seems to indicate.

Merlin13KAGL · September 2014

People that don't even attempt to use the SEARCH feature on the forums before posting a duplicate thread should be KoS by guards, as well.

This has already been beat into the ground. It's like a poll without the checkboxes. If you want to see people's opinions on it, check any other other dozen older threads.

If you're willing to have them do the same to you when you accidentally unsheith your weapon, the by all means, enable this feature.

Zorrashi · September 2014

I would agree to the kill on sight idea, but only if one of the following was implemented to help ease the sting.

A) Add a certain amount of vampire only 'covens' so they can still have access to at least some basic merchants

B ) As already suggested, some sort of spell or disguise that can be used (preferably with a cool down).

But that's just to ease the issue of "I have no access to merchants and repairs!" issue. But the main hot button topic that will arise form the idea is PvP.
Some people abhor the very idea of PvP coming over the PvE area. Even if it is optional. If the players feel as if they are 'forced' into PvP in any shape or form, they will complain and moan. So perhaps the addition of an easier mode of regression to normality (I never participated in becoming a vampire, so I am unfamiliar with the quests)?

Zabus · September 2014

It would be extremely annoying for anyone who is questing. Having to feed every hour or so, just to pick up a quest.

Thankfully, I don't do much PvE so I don't really care.

BBSooner · September 2014

Zorrashi wrote: »

I would agree to the kill on sight idea, but only if one of the following was implemented to help ease the sting.

A) Add a certain amount of vampire only 'covens' so they can still have access to at least some basic merchants

B ) As already suggested, some sort of spell or disguise that can be used (preferably with a cool down).

But that's just to ease the issue of "I have no access to merchants and repairs!" issue. But the main hot button topic that will arise form the idea is PvP.
Some people abhor the very idea of PvP coming over the PvE area. Even if it is optional. If the players feel as if they are 'forced' into PvP in any shape or form, they will complain and moan. So perhaps the addition of an easier mode of regression to normality (I never participated in becoming a vampire, so I am unfamiliar with the quests)?

Not just for vampires, but I'm hoping once the thieves guild is added that there will be a 'seedy underground ' for thieves to have basic banking/crafting stations in each capitol city (similar function that 'The Ratway' in Riften served in Skyrim). A wayshrine could exist here, sans a guard presence, and could be a haven for societies 'undesirables'.

MornaBaine · September 2014

xsfkxnub19_ESO wrote: »

It would be extremely annoying for anyone who is questing. Having to feed every hour or so, just to pick up a quest.

Thankfully, I don't do much PvE so I don't really care.

I don't think anyone has suggested that quest givers would snub you, just vendors wold refuse to deal with you and guards would come after you.

MornaBaine · September 2014

Zorrashi wrote: »

I would agree to the kill on sight idea, but only if one of the following was implemented to help ease the sting.

A) Add a certain amount of vampire only 'covens' so they can still have access to at least some basic merchants

B ) As already suggested, some sort of spell or disguise that can be used (preferably with a cool down).

But that's just to ease the issue of "I have no access to merchants and repairs!" issue. But the main hot button topic that will arise form the idea is PvP.
Some people abhor the very idea of PvP coming over the PvE area. Even if it is optional. If the players feel as if they are 'forced' into PvP in any shape or form, they will complain and moan. So perhaps the addition of an easier mode of regression to normality (I never participated in becoming a vampire, so I am unfamiliar with the quests)?

There's no PvP involved here. Being KoS to NPC Guards for being a Stage 4 vamp would not incur a bounty. To incur a bounty you would have to commit a crime, like attacking an NPC Townie to feed on them.

xaraan · September 2014

Yes.

Though I think some stuff should be added to game, like ring set or hood or something, that allows them to "stay hidden" from vampire detection when wearing it.

Mendoze · September 2014

I don't think so...

Unless developers make it similar to Exile faction in Everquest 2. Like vampires get their own city and stuff and it's permanent betrayal to all "humankind". Constant level cap increases would of course mess this up royally, if there's no quests or anything but PVP for vampires. Then again, I'm not even going to start how PVP would be like when vampires would rule all over Cyrodiil. Maybe some time in distant future developers have enough resources and time to really build vampires and werewolves as proper races, but not at the moment.

Currently I'd rather change advantages and disadvantages of being a vampire much smaller. Like 10% more stamina and magicka regen and 10% more damage from fire, and that's it.

Curragraigue · September 2014

I understand where you are coming from. There was a reaction from guards in Skyrim. But for the reasons in the spoiler below I think the circumstances in ESO are different.

However the quests and some of the people you meet in Rivenspire and some of the other zones in Daggerfall would seem to suggest that these dieses aren't as big a deal in this time period

NadiusMaximus · September 2014

Yes.
That's how it is in the ES world, f'n deal with it

NadiusMaximus · September 2014

Why not give us guns and shituff why are there no dragons. Oh lore, we'll Vampires were kos at lvl 4in all the other games.

Curragraigue · September 2014

You mean the games set a1000 years later

CapuchinSeven · September 2014

Vamps are becoming a must in PVP, it's a PVP tree. If I had my way anyone at a high enough Vamp stage should be tagged for PVP in the new open PVP system and attack-able.

Same old rubbish in MMOs these days, people want all of the things, none of the risks. If you want to be something like a vampire you should have to accept that normal humans are not going to be keen on you (at the very least), this isn't Vampire online.