stuff..? Can i have?

They did remove VP, they just renamed it xp though, and it does have another effect: Exploration, lockpicking, and achievements no longer advance skill advancement post level 50.

You used to still make progress on skills that weren't morphed at rank IV already by exploring and lockpicking, that's gone, because that was based on xp, which you no longer get post 50 unless it's from a quest or a kill.

Hurbster wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

The change is totally cosmetic because you do not receive experience after level 50 from anything but questing and killing still. The way the game changes at VR1 is the primary reason my friends no longer play this game anymore and are letting their subs expire. They haven't logged on in months. I was hopeful that having leveling based on xp allowing exploration achievements, and lockpicking to also contribute to veteran ranks would help bring them back.. but nope. They're tired of solo questing, after 50 levels of solo questing they just wanted to be at "endgame". The Champion system sounds like that'll help, and so did the removal of Veteran Points that was supposed to make Veteran Ranking a smoother experience. But nope, you crapped the bed.

In fact you made it worse by adding more veteran ranks to grind through by quests and kills only.

Those friends already bailed on this game, and my patience is wearing thin.

So, what was stopping them doing PvP in Cyrodil, or the vet dungeons or Craglorn ?

The mobs in PVP are all VR5, and all the players are VR12, they're VR1. That's what's stopping them. Vet dungeons are VR5 and VR10. Craglorn is VR10+

They're VR1. If they want to be effective in groups or PVP, it means more solo quest grinding.

dharbert wrote:

Unless they just changed it with this patch (which I didn't see it in the patch notes) exploration and opening chests give you xp towards your skills. Just 2 or 3 days ago I was getting about 900 XP per chest. I also gained a level on my destro staff by discovering a few more areas.

Just changed today. You no longer see "VP" when you mouseover your level anymore but "XP" but it doesn't go up from exploration or lockpicking and worse , your skill xp doesn't go up anymore either.

There are 2 things that absolutely killed this game for my friends:

1. Questing in groups was broken (I do see they're currently working on addressing that at least but it may be too late) so you just solo quest.
2. the Veteran system is L A Z Y, ZoS put no thought or effort into it, the storyline is the same as if you'd just played an alt through that faction, and unlike the base 1-50 game where you get xp from many sources, you only get it from quests and killing, might as well play World of Warcraft.

The only thing keeping me going was the hopes that those things change. The promise of the full questing audit to make sure quests worked in groups and you didn't constantly get separated from group members will help the 1-50 game... but #2? This patch was supposed to help that, preparing us for the Champion system. It didn't. ZoS s*** the bed.

Problem with veteran being "group content" is it's all solo quests that break if you try to do them in a group. ZoS was lazy when designing the veteran system. I'm glad the Champion system is coming, similar to say the paragon system in Diablo III which did improve that game tremendously, and that may get my friends back playing but what really would have helped now is if the VR's were truly gained through xp and you got xp in all the ways you used to get xp level 1-50. Up through level 50, this game rewards exploration and doing other things than just questing and killing. But in the VR, it becomes World of Scrollcraft, your path to advancement becomes more narrow and linear, unless you just LOVE getting jacked up by max levels in PVP as a VR1, you're stuck doing the same solo quests until cap.

Arato wrote: »

The mobs in PVP are all VR5, and all the players are VR12, they're VR1. That's what's stopping them. Vet dungeons are VR5 and VR10. Craglorn is VR10+

Did you ever go to Cyrodiil or to Craglorn?

Arato wrote: »

Problem with veteran being "group content" is it's all solo quests that break if you try to do them in a group. ZoS was lazy when designing the veteran system. I'm glad the Champion system is coming, similar to say the paragon system in Diablo III which did improve that game tremendously, and that may get my friends back playing but what really would have helped now is if the VR's were truly gained through xp and you got xp in all the ways you used to get xp level 1-50. Up through level 50, this game rewards exploration and doing other things than just questing and killing. But in the VR, it becomes World of Scrollcraft, your path to advancement becomes more narrow and linear, unless you just LOVE getting jacked up by max levels in PVP as a VR1, you're stuck doing the same solo quests until cap.

Insite ful post and i agree 100%..... The biggest problem with ESO:
- u cant play pvp unless ur max level
- no end game unless u group
- grouping is broken (unless u have close freinds online it doenst work)
- most of my friends quit at end game so i cant group.
- for everything they fix they add 10 new problems/bugs

i accepted grouping is broken and I used to play daily if for nothing else to level my crafting but now they are nerfing it & changing it so i need to group quest to learn the trait.

I am level 5, and was just starting to feel like i could enter pvp and at least get and occasional kill in before i died, now i need to level my toon two more levels to be at the same place grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr............

Lots of us really want this game to work but each release makes it harder and harder............ to date 1.3 was the only release i wanted. The rest just *** me off and make me feel like i am a fool to pay for this game. On paper 1.5 looks ok but i have lost all hope.

You can go with level 20 and kill easily an V12 when you know what to do little skill and perhaps firsthit from stealth

indigoblades wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Problem with veteran being "group content" is it's all solo quests that break if you try to do them in a group. ZoS was lazy when designing the veteran system. I'm glad the Champion system is coming, similar to say the paragon system in Diablo III which did improve that game tremendously, and that may get my friends back playing but what really would have helped now is if the VR's were truly gained through xp and you got xp in all the ways you used to get xp level 1-50. Up through level 50, this game rewards exploration and doing other things than just questing and killing. But in the VR, it becomes World of Scrollcraft, your path to advancement becomes more narrow and linear, unless you just LOVE getting jacked up by max levels in PVP as a VR1, you're stuck doing the same solo quests until cap.

Insite ful post and i agree 100%..... The biggest problem with ESO:
- u cant play pvp unless ur max level
- no end game unless u group
- grouping is broken (unless u have close freinds online it doenst work)
- most of my friends quit at end game so i cant group.
- for everything they fix they add 10 new problems/bugs

i accepted grouping is broken and I used to play daily if for nothing else to level my crafting but now they are nerfing it & changing it so i need to group quest to learn the trait.

I am level 5, and was just starting to feel like i could enter pvp and at least get and occasional kill in before i died, now i need to level my toon two more levels to be at the same place grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr............

Lots of us really want this game to work but each release makes it harder and harder............ to date 1.3 was the only release i wanted. The rest just *** me off and make me feel like i am a fool to pay for this game. On paper 1.5 looks ok but i have lost all hope.

When I started, the idea we had was the 4 of us were going to play together in a 4 man group, as we do in other games.

About 10 minutes and a few quests in, we realized that wasn't going to work, so we finished Kenarthi's roost, and tried again in Auridon. Same problems.

You can't play this MMO with your friends.

You can only play it with random people you don't even care about who just happen to be on the same phase as you.

So you solo quest, until you get to the dungeons, and you think maybe I can help my friends catch up to me, oh wait.. phasing, I can't even help my friends, they have to solo quest up to my level on their own.

So they actually started getting bored and forcing themselves to level simply because they'd already paid for a 6 month sub in advance, we'd do the 3 dungeons, there's almost 0 replay value in the dungeons since all the loot is non set, you get your skill point from the quest, and you research/extract all the loot. Then back to solo questing.

We wanted to group, we thought maybe Veteran will be different, they said it's harder and more group oriented... We get to VR1, try to group, same broken solo quests. That was enough for them.

Look clowns, I wouldn't be quitting the game for good, I'd be waiting for update 5 where the VR system is completely removed and possibly the audit over the game's quests were done so that you could actually play with your friends. So stop asking for stuff.

I'd also be hoping for F2P or B2P systems because honestly that's the path this game is going down ("don't leave us, here's what we plan for the next year, honest!" roadmap... check. "loyalty rewards" for subscriptions... check, massive waves of layoffs.... check, under 1 million subs 3 months after launch... check. In steam and base game already on sales... check. Watch for further damage control methods like friend referral programs, and then the last ditch effort of a small "mini expansion" or "digital expansion" to try and drum up interest in the game and save the subscription model)

10/10 OP. You fooled everyone into thinking this was a serious thread.

Arato wrote: »

Stonesthrow wrote: »

Clowns scare me….

And any remaining hope you had for a real discussion just disappeared with your last rant.

Gratz.

It is a serious discussion. What you think this game is in good shape? Haven't you seen the writing on the wall yet? I've been through enough Subscription to F2P transitions to know what to look for these days.

Maybe you should spend less time foreshadowing and more time reading up on changes that have actually been released.

You don't need to be vr12 to be in cyrodiil. vr1 is fine. Harder, but not impossible.

The mobs still feel like level 50 tbh. They are super easy vr5s. Though npcs really isn't the reason to go to cyrodiil.