How come i stack Magic buffs but no night silence ???

GnatB · September 2014

Stx wrote: »

I can't believe how big of a deal some players are making about this. There are SOOO many larger issues in the game right now.

I'm inclined to argue that shows how big a deal this is, and is a pretty good argument that fixing it was the correct move.

Makes no sense that a vampire can sneak faster than they can sprint.

Forget horses, forget anything else. The above alone is enough of a reason.

eNumbra wrote: »

Balance -

Only worked out of combat. Try again.

"Balance" isn't about what only happens IN combat. There are non-combat related activities, not to mention setup *for* combat.

Emeliana · September 2014

indigoblades wrote: »

Emeliana wrote: »

I'm glad they corrected the light-speed sneak only Vampires could fully utilize, as it gave unfair advantages like outrun a medium speedleveled horse while sneaking.

Apart from the upper hand they got in PvP, this could also be used in another way. I was going to gather some crafting mats in an area but found all nodes empty. Waiting for respawns that didn't happen, I started to wonder if invisible bots were back in game. Then after some time I caught a glimpse of someone going out of stealth at a few nodes. I realized I had no chance getting any mats even using my horse. That player almost teleported from one node to the next, likely to be a Vampire with Night Silence Armor. After this occasion, I've seen it being used by others too on other maps.

QQ:ers here on forum were defending it heavily, saying that "90% of the playerbase will unsub if this goes live." If it was that important to keep, I guess that speed-sneak had more uses than what I've understood...

FALSE STATEMENT: "as it gave unfair advantages like outrun amedium speedleveled horse" as has been said and tested by many, it can ONLY outrun the slowest of horses which are rare. I can out run much faster horses with bolt escape.

Unless i unsub, with all my magika stacking & bolt escape i will get the resource node way faster than any horse with my bolt escape .... it was more fun to sneak tho.

LOL! Now it's "Only the slowest horses which are rare". Well, today that is probably true, but I said "could" and meant before this last update.

One player made actual test a month ago and posted his/hers result on PTS-forum with units per second speed. That test clearly showed in real numbers the only thing faster than the old vamp-sneak-NS was a Light Horse only fed apples to full level - and it wasn't with much either.

However, that is history now since the change has already been made right?

eNumbra · September 2014

Emeliana wrote: »

That test clearly showed in real numbers the only thing faster than the old vamp-sneak-NS was a Light Horse only fed apples to full level - and it wasn't with much either.

More misinformation.

I constantly ran the DS/NS combo and was being outrun regularly by horses in Cyrodiil, not just lights, but imperials too. They could have been all apple fed, but the only way you were able to outrun everything but a Light Speed++ horse was to start by including Concealed Weapon and other speed bonuses into the mix.

GnatB wrote: »

Makes no sense that a vampire can sneak faster than they can sprint.

Again with the "sense" arguments. It also makes no "sense" for someone to be able to crouch and disappear in the middle of a barren field.

indigoblades · September 2014

I started this "horse endless stamina thread" for laughs .......... at the end i say it makes as much sense as the "not fair people sneak faster than horses stuff".

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/131915/how-come-horses-can-sprint-infinitely#latest

indigoblades · September 2014

naatokb14_ESO wrote: »

Here's my take on this:

1. The same people I noticed complaining endlessly about vampire+night's silence/shadow dancer sets stacks are the same who complain about playable vampires in game. They are the same that complain about bat swarm being too OP (it once was when it was possible for one vamp to stack multiple swarms, but that was CLEARLY not working as intended, and fixed fairly early on). They are the same people arguing against cosmetic changes for vampire characters.

2. Many of these same accounts here on the forums seem to have no problems whatsoever with the RIDICULOUSLY OP -(meaning it actually affects outcomes in competitive play between players which makes some reasonable character builds completely obsolete)- light armor/staff magicka bonus set stacking that gives mages and templars using theses builds+sets incredible advantage over other classes or the same classes not using those specific (TWINK) builds+sets.

3. ZOS did NOTHING to undo those stacking bonuses. I can only assume that is because half the fracking player base would unsub if they did.

I'm done with World of Warcraft losers destroying every other MMO out there with their endless, inane whining and complaining about how somebody ELSE is getting over on them. If you can't L2P without destroying somebody else's LEGITIMATE enjoyment of the game, then maybe you should go back to WOW or to made for console 'street fighter' type games and stay away from MMORPGs!

I agree with u 100%.........I have never come online and whined about anyone's build, tactics, exploits, class or anything being OP and unfair............ if i get my butt kicked by monster or players i study my build and tactics and adapt. ......... i learn something other than how to get my way whining in a forum.

MornaBaine · September 2014

indigoblades wrote: »

naatokb14_ESO wrote: »

Here's my take on this:

1. The same people I noticed complaining endlessly about vampire+night's silence/shadow dancer sets stacks are the same who complain about playable vampires in game. They are the same that complain about bat swarm being too OP (it once was when it was possible for one vamp to stack multiple swarms, but that was CLEARLY not working as intended, and fixed fairly early on). They are the same people arguing against cosmetic changes for vampire characters.

2. Many of these same accounts here on the forums seem to have no problems whatsoever with the RIDICULOUSLY OP -(meaning it actually affects outcomes in competitive play between players which makes some reasonable character builds completely obsolete)- light armor/staff magicka bonus set stacking that gives mages and templars using theses builds+sets incredible advantage over other classes or the same classes not using those specific (TWINK) builds+sets.

3. ZOS did NOTHING to undo those stacking bonuses. I can only assume that is because half the fracking player base would unsub if they did.

I'm done with World of Warcraft losers destroying every other MMO out there with their endless, inane whining and complaining about how somebody ELSE is getting over on them. If you can't L2P without destroying somebody else's LEGITIMATE enjoyment of the game, then maybe you should go back to WOW or to made for console 'street fighter' type games and stay away from MMORPGs!

I have never come online and whined about anyones build, tactics, exploits, class or anything being OP and unfair............ if i get my butt kicked by monster or players i study my build and tactics and adapt. ......... i learn something other than how to get my way whining in a forum.

If you're meaning to imply that naatok is "whining" you are mistaken. He clearly said he had NOT come to the forums to complain about things he sees as imbalances in PvP. But because other people had nothing better to do than whine about those darn sneaky vampires our stuff gets hit with the nerf bat for no valid reason.

indigoblades · September 2014

i agree with naatok 100% and he has cracked the pattern of whiners.

Soloeus · September 2014

So you want increase stamina, stamina regen, critical strike, weapon power, armor bonus to also not stack? How do you want passives to work then? Do you just want to force everyone to play Gear Tetris to make sure of no overlap?

No, you are just snarling because you can't crawl at 60mph invisible without a cost.

You can still crawl though. And cry. And get really mad when you get killed. You can also L2P and get better.

indigoblades · September 2014

things need balancing and at the moment light armor/resto staff is a bit op.............. but also things will never be completely balanced, its an impossible task......... some class/build will excel in PVP 1 vs 1, PVP in a group, PVP in zergs, others 4 man group dungeions with tank-healer-dps ... others trials... others solo'ng pve. There are so many ways to play we will never have stuff balanced perfectly unless they nerf everything till we are all force into the same build.

indigoblades · September 2014

Soloeus wrote: »

So you want increase stamina, stamina regen, critical strike, weapon power, armor bonus to also not stack? How do you want passives to work then? Do you just want to force everyone to play Gear Tetris to make sure of no overlap?

No, you are just snarling because you can't crawl at 60mph invisible without a cost.

You can still crawl though. And cry. And get really mad when you get killed. You can also L2P and get better.

I am snarling because it was stupid decision on ZOS part & there are only 3 or max 4 sneak speed improvements in this game so for ZOS not to forsee this is silly... there are dozens of things to stack to improve your magicka, magicka regin, health, health regin, stamina, stamina regen, critical strike, weapon power, armor bonus ect, with all the permutations those have a much greater chance of making imbalances.... i am not mad about my speed .......i can move way faster with bolt escape anyway ... sneak was just more fun thats it.

Doesnt matter anyway i am on an ESO strike for a few days ... if u craft this game is mundane and all the mundane task are 10x more mundane today.

indigoblades · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Just tested this on my vamp and my Night's Silence set is now COMPLETELY USELESS. Can I at least get my fraking mats back ZoS??????? I paid a boatload to have that set made and now there is ZERO point in having it. Thanks you guys! /sarcasm

i only lost 2 gold enchants mine was purple mats .... i still liked it and it made collecting mats fun. Cant get my self to login in now ......... grrrr i want release twice a year instead of monthly ................ each release wrecks the game more. And each release to day adds bugs and resets all prefs since day one.

Arsenic_Touch · September 2014

You know what's funny? there's reports that it doesn't even work for non vamps now. They might as well just delete the set like I said before.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · September 2014

GnatB wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I can't believe how big of a deal some players are making about this. There are SOOO many larger issues in the game right now.

I'm inclined to argue that shows how big a deal this is, and is a pretty good argument that fixing it was the correct move.

Makes no sense that a vampire can sneak faster than they can sprint.

Forget horses, forget anything else. The above alone is enough of a reason.

eNumbra wrote: »

Balance -

Only worked out of combat. Try again.

"Balance" isn't about what only happens IN combat. There are non-combat related activities, not to mention setup *for* combat.

why? why is that a justifiable reason?

No sense and realism are *** excuses. One does not alter game mechanics over them.

vaughancs · September 2014

jaebdub wrote: »

Because sneaking at speeds faster than a horse doesn't make sense.

Not for Mortals..but Vamps are supposed to be supernatural..makes perfect sense..and how is it an unfair advantage by being able to keep up with an unfed slow horse? Are there derby races?

FooL42 · September 2014

I built a character around what I thought was a valid build. I see some nice stealth speed synergies, and I align myself accordingly.

Now, with this nerf, the backbone of my build is gutted, making it no longer viable for anything at all. Trash it and start over.

My problem with this nerf is exactly as OP states. Why are we gutting this (non-combat, utlity-based) stacking build, but not others? Why is it OK to stack mana regen to insane levels? Why is it ok to build a defensive DK that cannot be killed in PvP? (you know what I mean)

By nerfing this NON-COMBAT utility build, they answered these questions. It's not OK. The nerf gun will be coming for ALL of these builds.

ZOS has said loud and clear with this nerf that interesting builds that utilize synergies from several different locations ARE NOT OK. Everyone needs to homogonize and build the same vanila builds.

naatokb14_ESO · September 2014

Soloeus wrote: »

So you want increase stamina, stamina regen, critical strike, weapon power, armor bonus to also not stack? How do you want passives to work then? Do you just want to force everyone to play Gear Tetris to make sure of no overlap?

No, you are just snarling because you can't crawl at 60mph invisible without a cost.

You can still crawl though. And cry. And get really mad when you get killed. You can also L2P and get better.

From what I've seen of your posts, Sirrah, YOU are the snarler. How many fracking posts have you seen from me calling for the nerf/ban hammer? But with you and a handful of others on these forums it is CONSTANT.

L2P? You fracking L2P! I'm not the one whining about vampires (a supernatural creature) with supernatural speed! How is it that the Set speed bonus plus vampire speed bonus ruined this game for you, hmmn? That's right. It didn't. But you still had to whine and moan about it until someone at ZOS got so afraid that your handful of "squeaky wheels" was going to cause a mass exodus from subscriptions that they destroyed one of the only good things left for NB (since now they are worthless without bows) and one of the cool things about vampires in ESO.

Congrat-u-fracking-lations! You're now a NERF herder!

wllstrt75b14_ESO · September 2014

Quite simply the devs love sorcerers and wanted the sorcerers to have the best escape skill that also does multiple other things like damage and stun..so in short the only class that deserves OP skills that revolve around escape should be Sorcerers despite that said skill being used for other purposes very effectively.

So screw you to you vamps that wanted to do anything other then be a sorcerer and spam batswarm rings and BE is basically what zenicrap is saying.

so all those that made the gear to take advantage of this do they get refunds on their gear and glyphs? nope they get sheit!!!!!

deepseamk20b14_ESO · September 2014

Beeboo beeboo, let's cry about something completely irrelevant. I don't know how you survived video games to this point! Let's all have soul gem powered rocket packs!

shadowz081 · September 2014

Eh I'll just say get over it and wear something combat orientated. This way you can gank and kill someone on their horses before they even realize what's happening. Night silence was a fun set , not really combat orientated.

I'm sure these people only wanted nightblades to be more combat effective and allow us to kill them better.

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO · September 2014

This topic again? Christ.

ZOS, afaik has never stated that the result of the stacking was intended. I've only seen one forum post provided as "evidence" but it only addressed the fact that the stacking wasn't consistent; sometimes the bonus would not be applying, and that was the bug being addressed.

Also seen the same ticket reply which says nothing definitive and leaves plenty of wiggle room for devs. It essentially said that, at the time, current plans did not involve nerfs but that if that were going to happen, it'd be in the forums in patch notes.

Let the horse rest in peace, please.

MornaBaine · September 2014

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »

This topic again? Christ.

ZOS, afaik has never stated that the result of the stacking was intended. I've only seen one forum post provided as "evidence" but it only addressed the fact that the stacking wasn't consistent; sometimes the bonus would not be applying, and that was the bug being addressed.

Also seen the same ticket reply which says nothing definitive and leaves plenty of wiggle room for devs. It essentially said that, at the time, current plans did not involve nerfs but that if that were going to happen, it'd be in the forums in patch notes.

Let the horse rest in peace, please.

Nope. Because when they destroy something I had and make it completely worthless to me I want to be compensated for it. Call me a whiner if it makes you feel better but when a company cheats me, I'm going to call them on it. And that's exactly what you are seeing here with most of the people posting being justifiably angry and/or annoyed about this issue.

Ohioastro · September 2014

I have a nightblade main, and the complaining about an obvious glitch that they fixed is actively painful to read. We get it that some people loved zipping around the map. It was a major advantage in PvP (being able to safely return to battle invisibly and rapidly is a huge, huge edge), and if you carefully read what the various buffs said that they did it was extremely obvious that it was intended to give you A or B, not A + B.

You do not want to design a MMO so that a single specific build has a large advantage over other ones. If you want to get around out of combat quickly you can ride a horse. You just can't sprint while invisible and (in theory) stealthy.

Arsenic_Touch · September 2014

"Obvious" glitch that they said was working as intended. Right.
So if this stacking is an "obvious" glitch, they better get rid of all the other set bonuses that stack with passives. Gotta be consistent.

Ohioastro · September 2014

No, saying that you remove a penalty twice does not, for normal English usage, imply that you end up pole-vaulting over the penalty to get a bonus.

Arsenic_Touch · September 2014

Ohioastro wrote: »

No, saying that you remove a penalty twice does not, for normal English usage, imply that you end up pole-vaulting over the penalty to get a bonus.

Except it only says it removes the penalty once and that's for the shadow dancer raiment set bonus. Night's silence set increases stealth by 60%, and dark stalker says increases stealth speed and increases the speed to enter stealth. So do tell me about normal english usage.

Stx · September 2014

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Ohioastro wrote: »

No, saying that you remove a penalty twice does not, for normal English usage, imply that you end up pole-vaulting over the penalty to get a bonus.

Except it only says it removes the penalty once and that's for the shadow dancer raiment set bonus. Night's silence set increases stealth by 60%, and dark stalker says increases stealth speed and increases the speed to enter stealth. So do tell me about normal english usage.

In my mind, it is pretty obvious that Dark stalker should cancel Night's silence out.

Stealth speed is what? 50% of normal speed. So if you increase that by 60% you are making that, what? 80% of normal speed while stealthed? Dark stalker removes the penalty, putting you at 100% speed, so it basically eclipses Night's silence.

If you thought that it was the other way around, that you could remove the penalty and then ADD to your speed after that, then I guess I just dont think like you. Because to me its obvious stealth should never be that fast, and it was always kind of obvious to me that Night's silence was a way for humans to compete with vampires for stealth speed.

lathbury · September 2014

I think that a nb read (expert at steath and illusion magic), vampire (preternaturally fast creature) wearing nights silence ( magic armour for fast sneaking). Should be the fastest thing while sneaking in game and faster than individual elements above. Ie human nb with ns or vamp nb. How fast should have been set with a cap so as not to be op like streak.

Nihil · September 2014

While I personally don't think that the way they balanced the set was the best choice, I also don't believe they did it just because people whined. If I was part of a development team I would try and look at how players are using an ability and if it is breaking a different aspect of the game it might have to be reworked. THey might have originally intended for the speed but didn't for see how players would use it.

It could be that Zenimax saw that some ( if not a lot as I don't have numbers and only can go off of what I have seen on the forums), were using the set not as it was intended purpose, sneaking up fast on people, and was using it as a mode of transportation where they couldn't easily be spotted. This could have detrimental effects in Cyrodil, special for those trying to do a sneak attack build, as it will leave the roads looking barren while still giving one of the better mobilities. Players on the forums had stated stuff along the lines of "I used this set to travel then switched to my combat set when reaching destination". If they had left it as is, who wouldn't end up getting this set and being a vampire/shadow dancer set and using it just for travel?

Kos · September 2014

You should be thanking ZOS, they do the best they can to make you go out, breathe fresh air, see some sun, socialize. One day you will send a thank you letter to ZOS.

Rivan12 · September 2014

dharbert wrote: »

All of these sweet, yummy tears because you can no longer crawl at 30 miles per hour

Its comments like these from people unaffected by that god mode armor *sarcasm* that pi$$ me off the most, ZOS made a reflex nerf and I have had to put up with weeks of trolling about the coming change *now live* and I am supposed to just sit back and take it...?

Tell you what slam your head nose first into your computer desk...those are yummy tears....now glad we agree on something.

The armor was neither lore breaking or game breaking but you whiney trolls got your way anyways