Samadhi wrote: »

At least with enemy players ganking them, they might get tired of dying and start fighting back instead.

Um, no they will not. They are more likely to leave Cyrodiil and never to return. If they spend more time in Cyrodiil by traveling to the quest hubs, finding the numerous travel to quests dotting the landscape and clearing caves, they might actually want to experience more of what Cyrodiil has to offer. You're using the vinegar approach to catch flies when you need to be using honey.

LonePirate wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

At least with enemy players ganking them, they might get tired of dying and start fighting back instead.

Um, no they will not. They are more likely to leave Cyrodiil and never to return. If they spend more time in Cyrodiil by traveling to the quest hubs, finding the numerous travel to quests dotting the landscape and clearing caves, they might actually want to experience more of what Cyrodiil has to offer. You're using the vinegar approach to catch flies when you need to be using honey.

I'm just referencing the approach that worked for me personally.
I used to play PvE exclusively in MMORPGS.

Progress is made by stepping outside of the comfort zone.

Samadhi wrote: »

Erlindur wrote: »

I'm just looking for a possible solution to the problem. There is a problem, even though lots of people here refuse to acknowledge it. We want people playing and enjoying pvp. Luring casual PvE people in Cyrodiil is a good thing. As it is now, they will come for quests and the other PvE stuff. If they get ganged repeatedly, they will simply hate it and never come back. So, lets just give them some time to familiarize with the setting and maybe try PvP on their own pace.
...

The problem is that PvE players expect PvP players and systems to cater to their wishes; treat PvP players as being disrespectful (sometimes even as being sociopathic); and feel entitlement while in PvP playzones.
Cyrodiil is a PvP map. I cannot show up there and chastise people for playing PvP; they are playing the way they are supposed to be playing in that zone.
This is particularly true in a game that does not allow overworld PvP, and requires PvPers to already sequester themselves to a single map.

Having PvE players able to avoid PvP but still receive the Cyrodiil achievements will not encourage them to PvP; they will simply abstain from PvP and either never come back after getting achievements or start spamming Cyrodiil for no-risk Exps.

Encouraging players to avoid PvP will not encourage them to PvP.

At least with enemy players ganking them, they might get tired of dying and start fighting back instead.
I know that is how I started PvPing in my first MMO. It took a lot of practice before I was good enough to kill other players, but that transition into a willingness to fight was something I needed.

Prior to that, I demonized PvPers; acted as though being a PvE player somehow made me more considerate to the needs of others; and treated getting PK'd as some form of harassment, rather than admitting to myself that it's just players having fun in the manner that the zone they are playing in is programmed for.
I was playing in a system where I was classed as someone for the other players to play with; complaining about those players and expecting the whole system to accommodate me was short-sighted and egotistical of me.

Once I was able to get over myself, I was able to let go and start enjoying myself. This exposed me to an enjoyable new playstyle, and my gaming experience has been better for it. I used to PvP in pen and paper RPGs then learned how to transition it to MMOs.

Now, honestly and wholeheartedly, I consider Cyrodiil to be the one place in game where I can get an authentic Elder Scrolls experience.
The unpredictable nature of when and where I will meet someone to fight; how that character will react and fight; the playstyles and mannerisms they express. All this adds up to provide something I have come to expect from the Elder Scrolls which has not been executed effectively in any of the PvE in this game. Random encounters.

Well, the problem is that you look at the Cyrodiil achievements as strictly PvP achievements. They are not. Take the quest achievement. In order to get the quest title, you need to do almost every quest in every single map of the game. And then it requires that you do 50 stupid quests in Cyrodiil. Why on earth are those quests in Cyrodiil in the first place? They don't even give AP as reward. Let them be for people that want to level in PvP but why tie them to a worldwide PvE achievement?

They want to encourage (not force) people to Cyrodiil. The way it is now is not encouraging. Do you think a first time volunteer has a chance against even a low rank ganger? They don't even have a chance as a group. A few days ago I encountered what I believe it was a “Cyrodiil night” by a casual PvE guild. They were about 30 people trying to do a siege in a remote keep. They were slaughtered by 5-10 ungrouped defenders in a couple of minutes. At least they tried to PvP and I hope they had fun. Because if they had fun, they would return.

Now, lets look at the OP and his “entitlements”. He completed around 1000 quests all over Tamriel. Now, to get the stupid PvE title, he must complete 50 strictly PvE quests in Cyrodiil. A good introduction to PvP? What? To enter an empty campaign as most people here suggest? Have you ever been in an empty campaign? They are the most boring places in game. Move around for hours with out seeing anyone, only to get ganged by a “locked out from his home campaign” kid while talking to a quest giver? Oh, and the nearest resurrect is half the map away. Is this a way to lure people into Cyrodiil? They will probably hate it and with good reason.

I want to lure the OP to a full campaign. I want him to do his quests but at the same time see people fighting each other. I want him watching a siege from afar. Sooner or later he will try to join, first reluctantly and more involved as he learns his way. He'll get hooked that way. This is how you bring new people to PvP.

Now look at my actual suggestion. You know, the part you omitted from your quote. I didn't suggest any kind of immunity. I said everyone can kill them. My suggestion is about giving us less reasons to kill them. Reduce a new quester to the status of a grey mob. You get no benefit killing him. Yes you may kill him if you want but most people will not actively seek him. If they feel some relative security, they may approach a battle and see the fun we are having. We may get a few new players that way.

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Quick question...

Do the repeatable bounty quests count towards the 50? If so just grab the "kill 20 of X class" quest and join a siege/defense group. Toss around some hots. Hit stuff with meat bags. You 'll finish it in no time.

If they don't count, well, that's just stupid.

No they don't. The 50 quests are named quests. There are five towns in Cyrodiil that give 10 separate repeatable quests each. Those are the quests you must complete.

Reading this thread made me wanna go to cheydinhall, and crouch downbl till a quester ran by.

Yes, I killed him.

Erlindur wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

Erlindur wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Erlindur wrote: »

I have a question about this topic but I have no available alt to check it.

If someone goes to Cyrodiil for the first time and completely ignores the tutorial, he has no rank. Does that mean that he has no blue/red/yellow icon next to his name? And most importantly, does someone with no rank give AP when killed?

Level decides AP. You still have a "Citizen" rank upon entering cyrodiil.

I'm just looking for a possible solution to the problem. There is a problem, even though lots of people here refuse to acknowledge it. We want people playing and enjoying pvp. Luring casual PvE people in Cyrodiil is a good thing. As it is now, they will come for quests and the other PvE stuff. If they get ganged repeatedly, they will simply hate it and never come back. So, lets just give them some time to familiarize with the setting and maybe try PvP on their own pace.

So, here is my suggestion for Zenimax. When someone comes to Cyrodiil for the first time, as long as he has 0 AP, he gets no visible alliance rank icon, gives 0 AP for killing him and he doesn't count for the "kill x enemies" quests and achievements. You can still kill him but there is not a valid reason to do so. The moment he gains a single AP, he loses this status and he is considered a normal PvPer.

What do you think about something like that and most importantly can you think of any ways people can abuse it?

No there is not a problem. Cyrodill is a warzone. Dot. You asserting it is a problem only guarantees it is so for you, not neccesarily the game ecosystem.

Oh, there is no problem...

Right now in the EU server (prime time), there are 2 full campaigns. The other 3 are empty. Now do some simple math. How many people are we talking about multiplied by their monthly subscriptions. That is the gross revenue Zeni gets from PvP.

Do you think it is enough for continued dev investment in Cyrodiil or do we need more people interested?

Edit: and before anyone asks, my full campaign had a 10 people queue. I was in in 2 mins.

Cyrodiils numbers problem is not caused by it being unfriendly to PvE players. I'm not sure what some people are really wanting. If it helps then they should just think of PvP players as mobs with really good AI. An empty campaign would be easy mode a full campaign would be hard mode.
But what is really happening is some people don't want to die or die to often they just want the reward at the end they care nothing about the journey.

Read the OPs first post, he doesn't care that its in PvP zone he just wants the prize. The prize is all he sees when in actuality the prize is there to do nothing but encourage him to try some PvP. I mean I understand making him not worth any RPs and heck I could care less but A: it wouldn't stop people from killing him and B: that's not what he wants he just wants his achievement.

Suppose someone came out to play soccer stating " I've heard they give out a gold medal to the winning soccer team and I want one of those medals" and you say sure but were going to have to practice and learn the game. This person stops you and says" no soccer is stupid, kicking a ball is stupid, why can't I just pick up the ball throw it in the goal be done with this and get my medal,I've never liked soccer I just want my medal". Would you go, well participation in the soccer program has been lagging and maybe this would encourage more people to come out, go ahead. Well then A: its no longer soccer B: the people who actually like soccer walk away.

Now Cyrodiil may very well fail and we agree on one thing I think Zenimax has crunched the numbers and decided that the number of people left in the game that consider PvP very important are not enough to justify putting many resources into it. But making Cyrodiil more PvE friendly is not the answer. Besides completing PvE goals in Cyrodiil is actually pretty easy compared to a lot of other games that have a PvP component.

Sorry for such a long unorganized argument on basically a non-issue. What can I say I'm bored.

So, I wonder just how much $$$ Zos would lose if all of the PvP content was converted to PvE.

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Hum , sounds like a waste of time. If you are not going to win , then you are just losing time by fighting the guy.

Actually, everytime you lose a fight, you learn a lesson. Or you just keep losing fights.

For a PvE player the lesson is close to pointless.

The OP is not there to learn how to beat other players , he is there to do quests/achivs.

So the actual lesson to him is to learn how to more effectively do so.

that being said , i never put any effort in learning this myself , like i said , i only fight when i know the enemy is in such a worst position i can beat him. I have no interest in fighting actual fair fights with PvP players , the more unfair and easy it is to my side so i can just keep going , the better.

The OP has to learn

serenenightmare wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Hum , sounds like a waste of time. If you are not going to win, then you are just losing time by fighting the guy.

That sounds... sorry to say, but a bit sad. Do you apply this to your daily life as well?

"I know I'm going to lose/woe is me/***-hum/just kill me already."

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Actually, everytime you lose a fight, you learn a lesson. Or you just keep losing fights.

This. ^

That's some nice broken quoting...

No , the Op doesnt "have to learn" anything related to actually fighting other players.

If he only wants the quests , then what he has to learn , is how to get them more effectively , not how to beat others. A PvE doesnt have to learn how to PvP or anything like that.

Reason so many already said the best option by far is going to a cyro where you faction has everything , not only it is unlikely you will meet enemy players , the ones you meet will usually be in small numbers AND you can just call on chat to have them eliminated for you (ofc you must make sure they dont see you first).

Did so myself when some enemy players tried to keep ganking in one the towns , they were all dead shortly after and i was back on questing (also worth keeping in mind , usually it is a big walk for them and a short one for you since you have all the keeps)

If others in this thread like to waste time on lost battles , that is fine. Not everyone is like that.

I repeat , the only thing the OP "has to learn" is how to more effectvely quest in Cyro and in his case that also includes how to best avoid even losing time with PvP.

I just want to go grocery shopping in Ukraine while dressed as a Russian soldier; why do people keep shooting at me?

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

Dude if someone wants to gank you in cyrodill while you PvE no amount of communication with the enemy will prevent that, in fact I am guessing trying to tell them all you want to do is PvE will get more people to kill you and farm your PvE spots.

I would have just looked for a quieter server, and never posted in here if i was you cause you are seriously trying to ask PvPers to leave you alone in a PvP zone..not the most intelligent idea.

So to answer your question NO there is no etiquette and I would expect to die in a PvP zone especially while PvE'ing.

@wllstrt75b14_ESO‌, exactly. The individual on the other end has pretty much already made up their mind. The only gestures will determine how much resistance will be met.

OP, it's a pain at first, but you learn to survive. You wouldn't waltz into a mob of 5 NPC's, you have to practice the same awareness with PvPers.

Group if you can, stealth and be patient. It's going to take you longer. The payoff is safety, the reward is the achievement.

You are going to die from time to time, whether it's when you're knee deep in battle and someone takes advantage of the opportunity or when you're simply outnumbered or outclassed.

Again, it's going to take some time.

I'd go with no gesture as opposed to any gesture. A wave will not save you. Acknowledgement by doing nothing other than letting the other individual know you are aware of their presence, will have them on guard.

When you wave, you don't want to fight.

When you stand ready, you convey that you are ready. If the other person feels the same, you can both part ways.

The other player only knows what you have when you show your hand.

If they fight, fight. Even if it is hopeless, always make them earn it, as much as your character possibly can.

As a side, along with the quests, I assume you would collect shards, as well. Know that you will not simply waltz into a Cyrodiil delve, PvPers present or not, as you are able to in your Alliance zones.

Learn to survive those first and you'll increase your survivability with PvPers you encounter.

I can't believe this thread is still going. Find a campaign your alliance owns and learn to efficiently do the quests knowing the threat of being killed is present just like on any PvE map in Tamriel. I mean c'mon really . . . not like you are an aid worker in a warzone and even then we know how ruthless a warzone can be towards even the kindest and giving who risk their lives to help others. Wait think of yourself as an armed aid worker trying to help those in need in these quest hubs as they struggle to survive in a warzone

SirAndy wrote: »

Interestingly enough, after DC had turned the whole map blue last night (they indeed took every last keep and resource) my AD character decided to take a break and she sat in her chair right in front of the now open eastern AD gate.

I had several DC players ride right past me, some stopped to look and some even played a few emotes.

Not one of them attacked me ...

As an AD player I've noticed DC players almost never attack where as EP players always will. Kinda find that interesting as well. I don't ever want Cyrodiil to be a safe zone though.