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Realism or Balance ?
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Marthenil✭✭✭Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this..
As far as knights and mages go, I always thought the distinction to be laughable.
Why the hell not both?
Well the reason is clearly balance. The invention of restrictive heavy armor (which is laughable, go watch some videos of people doing rolls in heavy armor) is a perfect example.
Why wear cloth when you can wear plate and have the best of both worlds?
Why limit yourself to magic only when you can do both?
i know you can't achieve true realism in a world that has magic . But at the risk of repeating myself once again, a game can have magic without sinking too deep into non sense . Something most other games did not even try to do .
I'm happy with the game as is , yes it has magic, no not everything makes sense, no it's not 100% realistic , of course it isn't , but the melee combat isn't too ridiculous. I still feel that my sword has a certain weight and i can't swing it like i would a plastic sword.
I also can't spin as fast as if i was some professional figure skater holding a sword and cutting through everything and everyone stupid enough to get close to me and then continue fighting as if i shouldn't be dizzy as hell after spinning like that.
Yes a game like this that has magic in it will have some non sense . At least this one isn't as bad as all of the others and i simply want it to stay this way.
Now about the part of your post that i quoted, in this game you CAN be both. You can be a mage in heavy armor , you CAN do what you want , yet some people still limit themselves for some reason and then claim that the game is unbalanced and claim that they can't do what they want.
Because what they want is to limit themselves and still be able to compete with those who don't limit themselves.
They want to be able to use only stamina and be as effective in combat as someone who doesn't limit himself to using only one resource.
They also claim that this game favors mages . Well in theory, everyone in this game is a mage because we all have magicka and are all able to use it .
I'm sure you'll agree with me when i say that a mage who refuses to use magic isn't going to be a very powerful one .
Same as a mechanic who thinks he can fix everything with his favourite hammer but then complains that other mechanics are better than him . Well that might be because they use every tools in their toolbox instead of just that one hammer.
The only people who complain about imbalances in this game are those who refuse to use magicka as if they simply didn't accept that it's a part of them just like everyone else.
Draxuul
Wait, wait, I was speaking in general, not about ESO in particular, especially the part you quoted.
The issue with ESO is, it punishes you if you don't specialize in either magicka or stamina.
It's a mechanics issue or what you would call balance, and not a world building, realism/non-non realism issue.
Edited by Marthenil on September 9, 2014 10:49AM0 -
Draxuul✭✭✭Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.Wait, wait, I was speaking in general, not about ESO in particular, especially the part you quoted.
The issue with ESO is, it punishes you if you don't specialize in either magicka or stamina.
It's a mechanics issue or what you would call balance, and not a world building, realism/non-non realism issue.
I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree here.
You say the game punishes you if you don't specialize in either magicka or stamina ? My opinion is that it's better to use both and not to rely exclusively on one of the two.
Every characters have access to both. Now of course you'll want to make one your main resource and the other your back up resource but still.
I've always loved playing hybrids because of their versatility and my main character is a hybrid and even though i'm not Vr12 yet, i'm rather stubborn when it comes to doing things my way and i don't think i'll be changing to a more specialized build once i reach Vr12.
So far the game hasn't punished me for being a hybrid, it actually rewarded me in many ways.
DraxuulBe who you want to be , do what you want to do, play the way you want to play.
The Prophet once said :``There is no perfect choice , there are only other choices. ``
Same goes for your build. There is no perfect build, there are only other builds.
My name is Draxuul and i approve this message .0 -
Marthenil✭✭✭Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.
BingoNow of course you'll want to make one your main resource and the other your back up resource but still.
A stamina build doesn't mean that you will only slot stamina abilities. In fact my stamina build has only one stamina ability slotted.
Same goes for magicka builds.
BUT, statistics wise, as in, gear, etc. you NEED to choose. You either (alright i'll refrain from using specialize) make stamina your main resource or magicka.
And the reason is simple, the way skills work and scale. If you don't choose one resource, then you get to hit people with wet noodles.
But really, i think this discussion is a bit off topic :P
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Draxuul✭✭✭Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.But really, i think this discussion is a bit off topic :P
Yeah , if it's a thread , on a forum , it will most likely end up straying from the main topic at some point . Seems unavoidable.
But in this case, anything relative to balance or realism is pretty much still within the bounds of the main topic lol.
Anyways, this thread is becoming old lol , at it's 4rth page already haha.
People's answers and replies have opened my eyes to a few things , though i still don't want whatever realism we have left in the game to be taken away, i'm not as worried as i was when i created the thread.
DraxuulBe who you want to be , do what you want to do, play the way you want to play.
The Prophet once said :``There is no perfect choice , there are only other choices. ``
Same goes for your build. There is no perfect build, there are only other builds.
My name is Draxuul and i approve this message .0 -
Marthenil✭✭✭Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.People's answers and replies have opened my eyes to a few things , though i still don't want whatever realism we have left in the game to be taken away, i'm not as worried as i was when i created the thread.
Draxuul
On that I agree, just the perception of realism is different in our respective cases
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Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.Balance. If I want realism I'll either go play a military simulator, or go outside. I play ESO for its gameplay, not because it's a realistic portrayal of what magic would be like in the real world in medieval times.-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
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-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.0 -
Draxuul✭✭✭Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Balance. If I want realism I'll either go play a military simulator, or go outside. I play ESO for its gameplay, not because it's a realistic portrayal of what magic would be like in the real world in medieval times.
That's fine , we all play this game for our own reasons , i just think it would be sad for those who enjoy the game as is if the game changed to sattisfy the needs of those who don't like it as is .
DraxuulBe who you want to be , do what you want to do, play the way you want to play.
The Prophet once said :``There is no perfect choice , there are only other choices. ``
Same goes for your build. There is no perfect build, there are only other builds.
My name is Draxuul and i approve this message .0 -
Bleakraven✭✭✭✭Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.Realism to a certain degree. I hate it when there is nothing different between classes, no rock-paper-scissors, nothing that makes them unique just so they are all "balanced".
I also prefer when classes have abilities make sense and are not too far fetched.1 -
Bleakraven✭✭✭✭Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.
Even then, I voted for balance, because to me, in an MMO, there is no worse feeling than making your character how you want it, then finding out that you cannot use him for anything in the endgame, because the path you chose just plain sucks in the game (due to poor balancing).
Then it's just up to the designers to make sure they are creating the proper kind of end-game, really, while still allowing each class to maintain its own identity and distinguishing features/abilities.
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Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.Bleakraven wrote: »Realism to a certain degree. I hate it when there is nothing different between classes, no rock-paper-scissors, nothing that makes them unique just so they are all "balanced".
I also prefer when classes have abilities make sense and are not too far fetched.
That is one point I can and do agree with, for sure.
Edited to correct typo-mania.Edited by Attorneyatlawl on September 9, 2014 11:38AM-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
soulf666✭✭Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.I voted for balance, but feel like I need to clarify: I' didn't vote for absolute nonsense balance where all classes feel the same. There should be diversity, but there must be balance as well. PvE cannot be ruled by bathrobe & broom builds as it is now, because it makes game enjoyable only for those who fancy playing mage-like characters, while the rest - who like all sorts of warriors, rogues, archers, etc. - have to either respec into mages or get along with being inferior class in this game's PvE.
PvE dps capabilities and melee/ranged friendliness of encounters should be brought into line or many players will occasionally decide to unsub and get back to playing single player ES games or other MMOs, wherever it is possible to play their role of choice and be on par with the rest.1 -
Draxuul✭✭✭Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.I voted for balance, but feel like I need to clarify: I' didn't vote for absolute nonsense balance where all classes feel the same. There should be diversity, but there must be balance as well. PvE cannot be ruled by bathrobe & broom builds as it is now, because it makes game enjoyable only for those who fancy playing mage-like characters, while the rest - who like all sorts of warriors, rogues, archers, etc. - have to either respec into mages or get along with being inferior class in this game's PvE.
PvE dps capabilities and melee/ranged friendliness of encounters should be brought into line or many players will occasionally decide to unsub and get back to playing single player ES games or other MMOs, wherever it is possible to play their role of choice and be on par with the rest.
I don't necessarily disagree with your entire post but you speak as if PvE was a competition. In PvE , you're either soloing or cooperating with others but in no way are you competing against other classes .
The PvE aspect of the game isn't ruled by any class or builds in my opinion, though i cannot disagree that some builds are better than others , as it should be , again, in my opinion .
The game would be boring if there were no bad choices or bad builds. But yeah there has to be bad builds for all , mages and warriors and sneakies .
I wouldn't want the game to be made in such a way that people could simply slot in 6 random abilities and be just as effective as someone who spent many days working every aspects of his build and carefully choosing his traits and gear bonuses and enchants as well as which 6 abilities could best benefit him.
On top of that , player skill , MUST remain a big factor in this game . If someone thinks he can play through the entire game without ever blocking and simply going berzerk against everything , then that person should not be able to get very far in the game .
This way players who actually put in the effort of using strategy , dodging , blocking , choosing when to heal himself and when to save magicka and so on and so forth, should be rewarded for their efforts . And those people should also be superior in PvP when facing a player who simply goes in berzerk without any tactical maneuvers whatsoever.
DraxuulBe who you want to be , do what you want to do, play the way you want to play.
The Prophet once said :``There is no perfect choice , there are only other choices. ``
Same goes for your build. There is no perfect build, there are only other builds.
My name is Draxuul and i approve this message .0 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭I just don`t care and i wish people would stop talking about thisI have to slightly disagree that PvE isn't a competition.
PvE *shouldn't* be a competition, but the whole timed trials is specifically designed to MAKE PvE a competition. Your group vs. other groups. Which results in competition to get IN said groups.
That said, I couldn't care any less about trials, so at least for my play style, there isn't really any PvE competition.Achievements Suck2 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.I like Realism in an MMO that's why I loved Ultima or Vanilla WOW. Every class was unique and suited better for a specific type of task.
Over the years this was changed due balance and now everyone had a strong CC, massive amounts of AOE damage and spells to cast. Needless to say everyone has a pet now too etc.
Balance should in my opinion never be more important than realism in an MMO. That's what Esports and games like CS are for.1 -
Elf_Boy✭✭✭I never fed my horse a single time and he's fine lol . I think the only purpose of feeding horses is to give them bonuses to stamina or speed or carry capacity. I also think that those bonuses have a specific duration and that once that duration is expired you simply lose the bonus and then you need to feed it again to regain that bonus .
Not true, they're permanent
Realy ??
haha , i never knew that , now i'm wondering where i got the notion that those buffs were temporary. Because that is the only reason why i never fed my horse . I don't like using consumables because then you get used to the bonuses they provide and when you don't have those bonuses you start to miss them.
So i never use consumables and that way i can't get used to them. But if the buff is permanent, i think i might do an exception lol.
thanks for the heads up
Draxuul
I thought the same thing till I tried it one day just to see how it would work.** Asus Crosshair VI Hero, Ryzen 1800x, 64GB DDR4 @ 3000, GTX 1080 ti, 4K Samsung 3d Display m.2 Sata 3 Boot Drive, m.2 x4 nvme Game Drive **0 -
Elf_Boy✭✭✭The problem is, "realism" and magic cannot go together.
Because "magic" is such an arbitrary thing, while realism is clearly defined by the rules of our own universe, in which magic does not exist.
String theory suggest the presence of alternate and parallel universes with similar to very different natural laws.
I suspect that should the 'physics' of a universe allow what we call magic it would not be arbitrary, there would be rules and order... just not the rules we know and live by.
Of course game magic -- while structured by the game creator -- can have a great deal of arbitrary and non-intuitive/logical functionality.** Asus Crosshair VI Hero, Ryzen 1800x, 64GB DDR4 @ 3000, GTX 1080 ti, 4K Samsung 3d Display m.2 Sata 3 Boot Drive, m.2 x4 nvme Game Drive **1 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.It's part of the fun to be able to experience with builds and always try new things and figure out new ways to make your character more powerful. Then if you finaly come across someone you can't defeat, then to me that only brings more interest into the game because it tells me that my build still needs work and forces me to keep trying to improve it .
It gives me a reason to want to keep trying . And another part of that challenge is to create a build that can make you compete at the same lvl as that other guy without copying his build.
Draxuul
Of course, but that requires a fairly balanced game. In an unbalanced game you could eliminate a large number of uncompetitive builds from your experiments outright.Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!1 -
Draxuul✭✭✭Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.It's part of the fun to be able to experience with builds and always try new things and figure out new ways to make your character more powerful. Then if you finaly come across someone you can't defeat, then to me that only brings more interest into the game because it tells me that my build still needs work and forces me to keep trying to improve it .
It gives me a reason to want to keep trying . And another part of that challenge is to create a build that can make you compete at the same lvl as that other guy without copying his build.
Draxuul
Of course, but that requires a fairly balanced game. In an unbalanced game you could eliminate a large number of uncompetitive builds from your experiments outright.
I don't want to eliminate them outright . That's what i'm saying , i don't want all builds to be just as good as the next one . I want to make bad choices so i can correct them later , to me thats all part of the fun, it keeps me interested in the game .
DraxuulBe who you want to be , do what you want to do, play the way you want to play.
The Prophet once said :``There is no perfect choice , there are only other choices. ``
Same goes for your build. There is no perfect build, there are only other builds.
My name is Draxuul and i approve this message .0 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭I want weapons to be buffed so I'm going for realism. Those who do a bolt escape will need to run, talons will be grabbing people around their legs etc.www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO40 -
Wuggums47✭✭Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.Why would it matter how realistic it is? Why not just go LARPing, that's as real as it gets.0
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Blooddancer✭✭✭I just don`t care and i wish people would stop talking about thisHow's about a realistic balance of realism and balance?1
