Realism or Balance ?

Venereous44

Balance makes a good game.. so that first and then they can worry about more realism.

Armitas

I love a somewhat balanced game but i don`t like non sense. (Unable to decide)

I went with yellow because I see it like this.

Bad balance would result in people leaving the game
Unrealism would result in people not wanting to start playing the game or continue to progress to the end game. (for unrealism I'm thinking nonsense like "Player splits into a million particles and surrounds their opponent by forming a vacuum bubble and choking the opponent", not simply extended imagination)

Since both are so important, I think for each instance we would have to examine the consequences of choosing one or the other.

BBSooner

Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.

While I think the term "balance" might as well be considered a misnomer with regards to MMOs, I think the idea of having each class/build capable of being competitive with each other is a positive to strive towards - more so than an individual's idea of what is "realistic" in a fantasy setting.

OrangeTheCat

Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.

Realism? Lol. It's a fantasy game.

Draxuul

Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Realism? Lol. It's a fantasy game.

Yeah another person who simply comments without reading my explanation of what i mean by realism before commenting .

Fantasy does NOT NECESSARILY have to be the same as non sense.

Draxuul

Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I am really sorry but as far as I can tell your concept of realism is completely based on your own personal opinion as to what you think should do more damage.

You are under the impression that magic should do more damage than melee weapons. A fireball of indeterminable size and ferocity should do more damage than a sword or an axe or a mace.

You also say that players need to use magicka to get the most out of their builds and that using stamina exclusively is binding a character to an arbitrary limit. Then why is it that if you use only magicka you don't run into the same limitations? Lack of balance.

Again, the only support for this idea is an opinion that magicka should reign supreme.

I can appreciate that you most likely favor the idea of a mage of immense power wiping out a battlefield. That is a really cool idea but the reality is in an MMORPG, a genre of game that relies on combinations of skills, abilities and gear.

Stamina shouldn't be able to be be used exclusively? Fine, give magicka the same limitation. Make it do less damage if you don't occasionally throw in a stamina skill

Realism is not a valid argument for one stat overpowering another especially in a fantasy game.

If you want to argue arbitrary numbers, from where I'm standing if a 6ft, 250lb warrior hits you with a greatsword you die, end of story.

People who use magicka only certainly have limitations the same way as a person using stamina only.

And it would be pretty much impossible for someone to use magicka only without ever using stamina . The fact that rolling, blocking, sneaking and CC break all cost stamina and are all innate abilities that everyone has means that every mage will be using stamina at some point and is also the very reason why anyone who dedicate their builds to being reliant only on magicka seem to have an advantage over someone who uses only stamina.

Which is why people who dedicate their build to rely exclusively on stamina are stubbornly limiting themselves knowing that they will need stam for using both their abilities and blocking, rolling, CC breaking etc... resulting in running out of their most needed resource a lot faster .

I am not saying that everyone should be a mage or at least not a dedicated mage. I'm only saying that people are limiting themselves by choice . You have a magicka bar, why not use it in the same way that a mage uses his stamina bar.

Why not simply use your magicka to complement your stamina build. You don't have to have a staff to use magicka. You could spend some time usign some light armor to lvl it up just enough to have access to the light armor active skill which is a damage shield and then you'd have a damage shield spell that doesn't require a staff .

Which means you could cast that damage shield on yourself everytime you enter a battle without ever using a staff and you could maintain that shield pretty much throughout the entire battle by recasting it because the rest of your build doesn't rely on magicka.

Like i said , no one is being forced to be a mage in the game, but you should still take advantage of every tools you have . You have a magicka bar , take advantage of it . Don't be stubborn , be smart , use magicka to complement your stamina build.

Draxuul

Draxuul

Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.

akray21 wrote: »

Please stop using the word 'realism' in reference to a fantasy MMO. It is getting very annoying.

The thing that annoys me a lot is the fact that people think fantasy means that everything is acceptable . In my opinion fantasy means mythical creatures such as vampires, werewolves, dragons, etc... It also means having access to spells such as fire balls or lightning bolts or damage shields or magical healing but...

In no way ever , should fantasy mean that Gravity no longer applies and that people can now jump 10 feet high or run faster than a cheetah while wearing heavy armor without the use of a spell or move undetected right in front of a group of ennemies without a tree or a big rock to hide behind .

I can accept fantasy as long as it doesn't mean non sense.

I just wish people would friggin read my main post before posting that same argument over and over again .

I KNOW THIS IS A FANTASY GAME GOD DAMMIT.

GreyPilgrim

I just don`t care and i wish people would stop talking about this

I had to vote I don't care, because I never care when a poll taker makes it obvious which choice they think is right when the write up the poll, thus judging the choices before you even get to make them.

You want me to fill out a poll? Ask the question nuetrally, not with the biased commentary. Make the commentary in your vote.

Draxuul

Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

I had to vote I don't care, because I never care when a poll taker makes it obvious which choice they think is right when the write up the poll, thus judging the choices before you even get to make them.

You want me to fill out a poll? Ask the question nuetrally, not with the biased commentary. Make the commentary in your vote.

yeah you do have a point there , i didn't mean it in a way that made my choice better than the others though. My intention was to simply give my own opinion.

But you're right , it does come out this way. My bad . This was the first Pole i ever made . I won't do the same mistake if i ever make another one .

Thanks for your honesty.

Draxuul

GreyPilgrim

I just don`t care and i wish people would stop talking about this

Draxuul wrote: »

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

I had to vote I don't care, because I never care when a poll taker makes it obvious which choice they think is right when the write up the poll, thus judging the choices before you even get to make them.

You want me to fill out a poll? Ask the question nuetrally, not with the biased commentary. Make the commentary in your vote.

yeah you do have a point there , i didn't mean it in a way that made my choice better than the others though. My intention was to simply give my own opinion.

But you're right , it does come out this way. My bad . This was the first Pole i ever made . I won't do the same mistake if i ever make another one .

Thanks for your honesty.

Draxuul

Kudos, friend not used to people saying that. Just a pet peeve, its cool that you can level with it.

I think the question for me is do I want realism, or fun?

Most of the time 'realism' would be "this [snip] is so hard I die instanty and stay dead." Video games and fantasy are about trying to stretch realism so that people can have fun being uber heros that they can't really be.

Are there games that should be realistic, like some combat simulators and maybe even FPS's? sure. But this is a fantasy MMO, and it's more like a sport than an adventure. Stuff like PvP can't be both 'realistic' and 'balanced enough to be a fun sport to play."

Games like this have real difficulties in that department, and I for one prefer something that's fun to play. Do I want people with My Little Pony heads running around,? Well f no.

But am I ok with game mechanics that are unrealistic but make a game fun, like, not having to tie up my horse somehwere, and then come back for him later? like being able to pull a treb outta my pocket set it up in 10 secs, and take it down in the same?

All of the abilities we have in this game are unrealistic, so if the devs have to boost the power of something to bring classes into balance, I'm really ok with that. But looking at a leaderboard where at the end of the month, the average of the AP totals for the top ten players in each class vary by a factor of THREE? Not ok with that. Its not balanced, and its kinda less fun, especially when you can see that even the best players in your class are earning a 3rd of the AP of another class. You really can't tell me that the top ten templars or top ten Nightblades in the game just aren't as good as the top ten Dragonknights in the game.

Those differences in AP totals mean that either ( A ) the classes are actually unbalanced for combat, or ( B ) the AP totalling system needs some kind of overhaul, or ( C ) both.

Personally, I suspect both, I don't hear that many Templars complaining that they don't stand up well in combat, but I'm sure they have to have noticed the leaderboards.

My point is that unbalanced games become progressively less fun for most players, and if it means sacrificing some realism to keep it fun, then yes I'm ok with that.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Auralia

Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.

MMO's need balance more than anything else.

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO

Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.

Draxuul wrote: »

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

I had to vote I don't care, because I never care when a poll taker makes it obvious which choice they think is right when the write up the poll, thus judging the choices before you even get to make them.

You want me to fill out a poll? Ask the question nuetrally, not with the biased commentary. Make the commentary in your vote.

yeah you do have a point there , i didn't mean it in a way that made my choice better than the others though. My intention was to simply give my own opinion.

But you're right , it does come out this way. My bad . This was the first Pole i ever made . I won't do the same mistake if i ever make another one .

Thanks for your honesty.

Draxuul

I seem to agree with you on almost nothing with regards to game mechanics...but you are always willing to rationally discuss.

Good stuff man.

Also your story was pretty awesome.

GreyPilgrim

I just don`t care and i wish people would stop talking about this

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

Draxuul wrote: »

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

I had to vote I don't care, because I never care when a poll taker makes it obvious which choice they think is right when the write up the poll, thus judging the choices before you even get to make them.

You want me to fill out a poll? Ask the question nuetrally, not with the biased commentary. Make the commentary in your vote.

yeah you do have a point there , i didn't mean it in a way that made my choice better than the others though. My intention was to simply give my own opinion.

But you're right , it does come out this way. My bad . This was the first Pole i ever made . I won't do the same mistake if i ever make another one .

Thanks for your honesty.

Draxuul

All of the abilities we have in this game are unrealistic, so if the devs have to boost the power of something to bring classes into balance, I'm really ok with that. But looking at a leaderboard where at the end of the month, the average of the AP totals for the top ten players in each class vary by a factor of THREE? Not ok with that. Its not balanced, and its kinda less fun, especially when you can see that even the best players in your class are earning a 3rd of the AP of another class. You really can't tell me that the top ten templars or top ten Nightblades in the game just aren't as good as the top ten Dragonknights in the game.

Those differences in AP totals mean that either ( A ) the classes are actually unbalanced for combat, or ( B ) the AP totalling system needs some kind of overhaul, or ( C ) both.

Ok, so I totally have to bust myself, hadn't looked at AP totals across class lately, it was a lot more unbalanced a few weeks ago, but it seems to have evened up. So just ignore this argument, its not very good.

akray21

Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.

Draxuul wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

Please stop using the word 'realism' in reference to a fantasy MMO. It is getting very annoying.

The thing that annoys me a lot is the fact that people think fantasy means that everything is acceptable . In my opinion fantasy means mythical creatures such as vampires, werewolves, dragons, etc... It also means having access to spells such as fire balls or lightning bolts or damage shields or magical healing but...

In no way ever , should fantasy mean that Gravity no longer applies and that people can now jump 10 feet high or run faster than a cheetah while wearing heavy armor without the use of a spell or move undetected right in front of a group of ennemies without a tree or a big rock to hide behind .

I can accept fantasy as long as it doesn't mean non sense.

I just wish people would friggin read my main post before posting that same argument over and over again .

I KNOW THIS IS A FANTASY GAME GOD DAMMIT.

fan·ta·sy
ˈfantəsē/Submit
noun
1. the faculty or activity of imagining things, especially things that are impossible or improbable.

Guppet

Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.

How can anyone say realism and then play a Mage? Magic is not real! The argument saying that works differently in another world, also invalidates every other comparison, as those things can work differently too.

Seems to be used by people who want there mages to auto win against non magic users. "Magic should be powerful" yeah sure but you should be dead as a Mage the second a melee gets to you, oh you don't want that side if realism, what a shocker.

KenjiJU

Is magic a catch-all way of explaining lore within an ability? That in itself is pretty unfavorable to the other side. I don't necessarily want skeletons to be affected by bleeds (as for the theme or realism within the world), but does an equal downside exist as often for an equivalent magic-based situation?

Draxuul wrote: »

Which is why people who dedicate their build to rely exclusively on stamina are stubbornly limiting themselves knowing that they will need stam for using both their abilities and blocking, rolling, CC breaking etc... resulting in running out of their most needed resource a lot faster .


Draxuul

Who are these people though? Who doesn't put at least one or two magicka abilities on their bar just for utility alone? That's pretty much a given. Yet even stamina based players doing all you suggest are still at the disadvantage. Sure, a lot of the players know this going in, but they want to play with weapons and werewolves (and whatever else) and be effective. Those options exist. And we don't get extra stat points after putting them into Stamina as if the game knew Stamina was weaker, it's presented as an equivalent choice.

Draxuul

Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.

KenjiJU wrote: »

Is magic a catch-all way of explaining lore within an ability? That in itself is pretty unfavorable to the other side. I don't necessarily want skeletons to be affected by bleeds (as for the theme or realism within the world), but does an equal downside exist as often for an equivalent magic-based situation?

Draxuul wrote: »

Which is why people who dedicate their build to rely exclusively on stamina are stubbornly limiting themselves knowing that they will need stam for using both their abilities and blocking, rolling, CC breaking etc... resulting in running out of their most needed resource a lot faster .


Draxuul

Who are these people though? Who doesn't put at least one or two magicka abilities on their bar just for utility alone? That's pretty much a given. Yet even stamina based players doing all you suggest are still at the disadvantage. Sure, a lot of the players know this going in, but they want to play with weapons and werewolves (and whatever else) and be effective. Those options exist. And we don't get extra stat points after putting them into Stamina as if the game knew Stamina was weaker, it's presented as an equivalent choice.

I'm not 100% against Zenimax making a few adjustements to Stamina builds in order to make them more enjoyable and more competitive. I'm just terrified that they might do it in a way that will turn stamina abilities into spells that cost stamina instead of magicka .

Don't get me wrong here . I rely a lot on stamina with my main character , mostly for weapon abilities . I love playing a melee character and i love swinging my sword at monsters or bandits or whatever.

But thats the thing, i want that type of combat to remain somewhat down to earth. I don't want to feel like a mage when i swing my sword , i want to feel like my sword is heavy and i want to hear the clash of steel against steel.

In many other games, the devs started giving warriors abilities that didn't make sense for the simple sake of giving them something that could put them toe to toe with casters . So in other words, playing a warrior made it feel like simply playing a different kind of mage .

I just want my warrior to keep feeling like a warrior and i don't want my abilities to start feeling like a different kind of magic.

If all Zenimax does is adjust stamina cost of abilities or make them deal a bit more damage then you guys won't be seeing me posting about this again. But untill i'm absolutly sure i might keep posting about it , hoping that Zenimax really does pay attention to the forums and sees that not everyone agrees with the ones who keep complaining about imbalance issues regarding stamina builds.

I'd rather play an underpowered build that feels real rather than a balanced build that feels ridiculous.

Draxuul

AshySamurai

Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.

This topic was started as Realism vs. Balance, and now it's again Magika vs. Stamina. How pity.

Draxuul

Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.

Now i've read most of the comments that have been posted in this thread and i still feel like a lot of people don't get my meaning when i speak about realism .

So i'm gonna use another game as an example to try my best and explain exactly what i mean .
The very first MMO of it's kind ever made . Everquest . That game was meant to feel very realistic , in fact the devs put a lot of work into making things feel real. And in many ways, it made the game more difficult and more :" down to earth" even though it was in a fantasy setting and even though there was magic .

In Everquest, there was a real consequence to dying so you really didn't want to die . You would respawn without any gear and would have to go back to your corpse and loot your own corpse to get your gear back. Now sometimes , reaching your corpse was almost impossible and the only way to get it back was to ask a necromancer to summon your corpse back to you and that wasn't always easy.

Mages needed to have certain spell components in their inventory in order to cast certain spells and if they didn't, they simply could not cast the spell.

Mana was definatly not regenerating as fast as it does in MMO's nowadays, you actually needed to sit and meditate to regenerate your mana .

On top of that , your character had to eat and drink .

And as if that wasn't enough, if you were playing a human , at night you had to have a light source to walk around or else you couldn't see 10 feet in front of you.

So yeah it was a fantasy game and it had magic , but it still felt realistic aside from magic .

Eversince that game , i've been wishing for another MMO like the first Everquest but made with today's technology. An MMO that would pretty much be considered more of a Simulator rather than simply a game .

Now every other MMO's that came out after Everquest have been making things easier and easier and more and more simple with every single update that they release.

No matter what you do in MMO's nowadays doesn't offer you any sense of accomplishement at all because everything is just sooooooo easy and simple .

BUT, if you compare ESO as it currently is and any other MMO's out there, ESO is the one and only game that still seems to care at least a little tiny bit about keeping some aspects of it's game somewhat close to realistic. And i simply fear that this will eventually change and there are no words to describe how much that would destroy my interest in the game .

Even the guys who made the first everquest have completly changed their ways. Their new game which is still in development is one of the most ridiculous game i've seen , heck it will be even more riduculous than WoW ever was.

People will be able to double jump in Everquest next and that double jump alone represent enough of a good reason for me to never ever play it.

Anyways , i hope i've made it easier for people to understand what i mean by realism in a fantasy game because i'm really sick of people's sarcasm regarding my posts.

Draxuul

Draxuul

Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.

AshySamurai wrote: »

This topic was started as Realism vs. Balance, and now it's again Magika vs. Stamina. How pity.

Was a bit hard not to deviate in this direction considering that everyone's complaints regarding balance issues are about stam VS magicka builds . Rather than class imbalance.

Guppet

Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.

Draxuul wrote: »

Now i've read most of the comments that have been posted in this thread and i still feel like a lot of people don't get my meaning when i speak about realism .

So i'm gonna use another game as an example to try my best and explain exactly what i mean .
The very first MMO of it's kind ever made . Everquest . That game was meant to feel very realistic , in fact the devs put a lot of work into making things feel real. And in many ways, it made the game more difficult and more :" down to earth" even though it was in a fantasy setting and even though there was magic .

In Everquest, there was a real consequence to dying so you really didn't want to die . You would respawn without any gear and would have to go back to your corpse and loot your own corpse to get your gear back. Now sometimes , reaching your corpse was almost impossible and the only way to get it back was to ask a necromancer to summon your corpse back to you and that wasn't always easy.

Mages needed to have certain spell components in their inventory in order to cast certain spells and if they didn't, they simply could not cast the spell.

Mana was definatly not regenerating as fast as it does in MMO's nowadays, you actually needed to sit and meditate to regenerate your mana .

On top of that , your character had to eat and drink .

And as if that wasn't enough, if you were playing a human , at night you had to have a light source to walk around or else you couldn't see 10 feet in front of you.

So yeah it was a fantasy game and it had magic , but it still felt realistic aside from magic .

Eversince that game , i've been wishing for another MMO like the first Everquest but made with today's technology. An MMO that would pretty much be considered more of a Simulator rather than simply a game .

Now every other MMO's that came out after Everquest have been making things easier and easier and more and more simple with every single update that they release.

No matter what you do in MMO's nowadays doesn't offer you any sense of accomplishement at all because everything is just sooooooo easy and simple .

BUT, if you compare ESO as it currently is and any other MMO's out there, ESO is the one and only game that still seems to care at least a little tiny bit about keeping some aspects of it's game somewhat close to realistic. And i simply fear that this will eventually change and there are no words to describe how much that would destroy my interest in the game .

Even the guys who made the first everquest have completly changed their ways. Their new game which is still in development is one of the most ridiculous game i've seen , heck it will be even more riduculous than WoW ever was.

People will be able to double jump in Everquest next and that double jump alone represent enough of a good reason for me to never ever play it.

Anyways , i hope i've made it easier for people to understand what i mean by realism in a fantasy game because i'm really sick of people's sarcasm regarding my posts.

Draxuul

The thing is games have moved on. The parts you are missing are best described as life sim components, they don't add to the gameplay part, but do add slightly to immersion.

Games have removed things like that deliberately, to focus more on the actual gameplay part.

I have to eat and feed my family in real life, I have to have life insurance, due to how punishing death is. These things are not things I seek in games, as they are present in my real life. Killing monsters and saving towns is not present, that's what I play games for.

Maybe before I had responsibilities in life, I would have been more accepting of games giving me responsibilities.

As polls here show, this is a mature community, so most of us will now have responsibilities already.

Those of us with responsibilities don't appreciate people without seeking to add barriers to our gaming, just to fill their life with virtual chores, that we have in RL. That's a broad generalisation I know, but that is what causes most friction amongst the demographics.

You would have got a more accurate response (for what you were wanting to know) had you asked "Sim or Arcade", since it does not sound like balance is in anyway opposed to sim, but arcade is.

ESO is an action MMORPG, you can clearly see this from the limited abilities active at any one time and the focus on blocks dodges, interrupts. Due to this it is actually fairly obvious that it veers far more closely to arcade than sim.

I'm not normally one to say this, but given you clearly want more sim, this may not be the game for you and may explain why you always seem so frustrated.

Phinix1

Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.

It sounds like you just want to sit here and decide one by one whether each poster's suggestion matches your personal standards of "realism," which you have poorly defined and which likely has no place in an Elder Scrolls game.

• Explain summoning a Daedric minion please. That is already in the game.
• Explain converting your stamina to magicka for mages. Already there.
• Explain sacrificing health to get magicka (without a classical blood magic component to it). Already there.
• Explain... You know what? You get the idea.

This is not a medieval combat simulator. As others have said, it sounds like you would be better off in another game, perhaps a SOLO game.

Having balanced PVP is what allows an online game to thrive. If PVP is lopsided and the meta doesn't allow one archetype (stamina) to create an unique and intelligent build that can sustain and compete with the other archetype's (magicka) equally unique and intelligent build, people will get frustrated and quit.

That means fewer subs, which means fewer dollars to improve the game moving forward. No thanks.

Perhaps if you defined "balance" it might help. To me, balance means that the tools exist to create a fairly even number of sustainable and competitive builds on both sides of the resource bar divide, which is sadly absent at this stage.

Not only that, but core skills like Nightblade's cloak don't even work! You rely on Crippling Grasp to root your opponent (one at a time for 2 seconds unlike the Sorcerer's long-lasting ROFL AOE root), and the DoT it puts on your enemy instantly breaks you out of your invisibility cloak.

The game needs balance if it is to survive.

Muizer

Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.

Without balance everyone would drift over to the superior builds, killing the diversity that make fantasy universes attractive to people. If that's the result of "realism" would you prefer that?

AshySamurai

Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.

We have serious problem with realism here. If "balance" for everyone more or less the same, the term "realism" is different for everyone. I want to try to clarify this so that we can still have a constructive discussion.

We have the world. The Elder Scrolls universe. It's a big one with it's own history. But in this world we have rules and laws. Some of this laws and rules are the same as in our real life, eg physics as we have in real world. So jumping in this game is real, but double jumping is not. Or you cant fall from high with no damage. This is physical limitations of this fantasy world. Of course magik, gods, ghosts, WW, vampires and so on aren't real and if you compare to our world, the game seems not so realistic. But IMO here we aren't talking about realism of Elder Scrolls world as compared to our world. We're talking about what is real inside ES world. And all is real here until it doesn't conflict with laws and rules of this world.
BTW realism is very important. It makes universe logical and complete. Only in that way you can feel this world alive.

Nocturnalis

Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.

Draxuul wrote: »

In no way ever , should fantasy mean that Gravity no longer applies and that people can now jump 10 feet high or run faster than a cheetah while wearing heavy armor without the use of a spell or move undetected right in front of a group of ennemies without a tree or a big rock to hide behind .

I can accept fantasy as long as it doesn't mean non sense.

Not sure why in a fantasy universe there wouldn't be the possibility for low gravity. Lower and higher gravity planets exist in our universe, where we could jump 10 feet in the air or be crushed under our own weight on other planets. So I wouldn't say this qualifies as nonsense.

I think, and maybe from what you say from the example of Everquest that game play mechanics should fit the lore. And I think that the majority of Elder Scrolls fans would agree with that. Lore is important for a world to be believable and aid in our suspension of disbelief.

And have you seen the Elder Scroll lore? It is pretty meta and out there!

Most developers are going to prefer making their games fun to play and balanced even if it means conflict with the lore or a lore rewrite to compensate the game play. Bethesda has done that time and again with the single player ES series.I think they have gone as far as saying that the lore serves the game play and not the other way around.

Yes, I think if ESO started to have us fly around in helicopters, I think that would be pretty nonsensical... But maybe one day we will dig up a long lost Dwemer flying machine? Would it be nonsense then? Does it fit the lore? Or does it break your suspension of disbelief (this to me is the most important question)?

Arizona_Willie

Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.

What gripes me, in this game, is the NPC's / enemies can shoot through walls and around corners and we can't.

That is just soooo wrong.

And, they have done it deliberately because in most other cases when I run into a walk or even a rock on the ground my toon has to go around it. Even when running into most NPC's I bounce off.

But yet the enemies can fire arrows and / or magic spells right through walls so you can't hide to heal up or anything but we have to have a direct line of sight in order to hit them with all weapons / spells.

THAT SHOULD BE FIXED.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.

I don't know WTF you're talking about realism in a fantasy RPG. This game is horrible when it comes to balance so balance is severely needed. Perfect example just happened about 5 mins ago. Was fighting a caster who happened to also have 1 hand a shield. Person didn't use a single 1 hand/shield ability, just used to to keep block up 100% of the time. So basically he could use whatever magic he wanted and I could not block it yet he could block every skill I use because my build is weapon skill based. He just spammed the same skill over and over while apparently having enough stamina that he never ran out from blocking my attacks and eventually I just gave up because it was so stupid. This games PvP is some of the most unbalanced caster favoring crap I have ever seen.

Draxuul

Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.

AshySamurai wrote: »

We have serious problem with realism here. If "balance" for everyone more or less the same, the term "realism" is different for everyone. I want to try to clarify this so that we can still have a constructive discussion.

We have the world. The Elder Scrolls universe. It's a big one with it's own history. But in this world we have rules and laws. Some of this laws and rules are the same as in our real life, eg physics as we have in real world. So jumping in this game is real, but double jumping is not. Or you cant fall from high with no damage. This is physical limitations of this fantasy world. Of course magik, gods, ghosts, WW, vampires and so on aren't real and if you compare to our world, the game seems not so realistic. But IMO here we aren't talking about realism of Elder Scrolls world as compared to our world. We're talking about what is real inside ES world. And all is real here until it doesn't conflict with laws and rules of this world.
BTW realism is very important. It makes universe logical and complete. Only in that way you can feel this world alive.

Thank you for that post , that shows that you get what i mean by realism to the contrary of so many others who simply reply things like , magic is not real so how can you ask for realism in a magical world ? Or this is a fantasy game , there is no such thing as realism in a fantasy world.

But your post describes pretty much what i've desperatly been trying to say and god does it feel good to see that someone understands and feels the same way i do.

Draxuul

Grunim

Balance is an absolute must in a game such as this.

I've never been a giant proponent of the realism trumps all camp. Good RPGs have long been about making game design choices that enhance player enjoyment rather than consistently choosing what is most realistic.

I would hope the Devs goal is to strive for balance where players can make diverse and interesting choices while still feeling immersed in an Elder Scrolls world.

Draxuul

Realism is all i care about in a game such as this.

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

I don't know WTF you're talking about realism in a fantasy RPG. This game is horrible when it comes to balance so balance is severely needed. Perfect example just happened about 5 mins ago. Was fighting a caster who happened to also have 1 hand a shield. Person didn't use a single 1 hand/shield ability, just used to to keep block up 100% of the time. So basically he could use whatever magic he wanted and I could not block it yet he could block every skill I use because my build is weapon skill based. He just spammed the same skill over and over while apparently having enough stamina that he never ran out from blocking my attacks and eventually I just gave up because it was so stupid. This games PvP is some of the most unbalanced caster favoring crap I have ever seen.

Your post comes out more like you're simply judging another person's build and complaining that you couldn't do anything against him.

I'm sure there must have been a way for you to do something against him. If he was spamming impulse then he had a short range and since he was holding block the whole time that means he probably couldn't move very fast so you could've taken advantage of that to stay out of his area of effect and wait for him to stop blocking to try and land a few attacks before he raises his shield again.

If you have a ranged weapon, staff or bow , you could've used regular attacks on him while he's blocking to make him spend his stamina while you are not spending yours. Eventually he would've had no choice but to stop blocking and that is where you start using your hard hitting abilities and power attacks .

No matter what your build is , you must have strenghs and weaknesses just like he had to have strenghs and weaknesses . Maybe you weren't able to figure his weaknesses out while in the middle of the action but he had to have some.

The way you descrribed the fight, it sounds to me like he was just acting like an armadillo or turtle or edgehog or anything that simply rolls himself inside of their protective shell and wait for the danger to pass lol. If i ever come across such a player i would simply leave him alone and try to find a more worthy opponent .

Draxuul