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My opinion about the game, for what it's worth :)
alleigha
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(Edit: I don't feel that ESO has been as hardcore as I prefer as I state below. I am giving a review on both my feelings about ESO and what type of game I would ultimate like, personally to be more clear)
Just want to say first, that I love the artwork, and some of the inventive quests in ESO. Not here to bash it, but to share my opinion.
Long story short first: 1. I would love a game that encourages friendship and group dynamics (classes) by making grouping a necessity from the very lower levels on up. 2. Make gameplay and goals more difficult so that players HAD to work together, and depend on ALL classes. 3. Have one guild, not many.
Ok, breaking down some finer points:
Basically, I would love an "old school" type of MMO. By this, I mean one where you relied very much on group interaction. Have 4 main classes that were are very clearly defined. I think this fosters strong guilds and friendships in the game, and the feeling that your class is vital to achieving your personal and their guilds goals.
Next, would love goals (like obtaining a mount or armor) to be harder to achieve, and the penalties for dying tougher. Then it is very gratifying when the guild or group finally accomplishes their goals. For example, in a past game it took our guild 6 months to achieve a flying dragon mount, and it was a blast. It was a very long quest line, very hard to do, but you felt proud of it in the end and I made some great friendships. And it gave players a reason to log on each night.
Making dying harder. In an older mmo; If you died in a dungeon you would have to wait 3 days to retrieve your armor (on your body!) unless your guild/group got your tombstone. Sounds really bad, but it made the game challenging and forced you to work together. Dying almost felt like a real death, haha. Another game took away substantial XP for dying, which seems awful, but you were on your toes and worked hard at your class.
I know many people disagree with this type of MMO, or think that it is too hard or there is too much grouping now. But, I'm going to step out and disagree with this. I think there less communication/friendships between players and within guilds because MMO's have become much easier, and do not stress groups as much as they used to. Friendships and communication was there because it had to be there to succeed.
The need for grouping should be in the first 50 levels, so that players need to join with others right away, not later. This would benefit ESO as well, because this makes players loyal to each other, and the game.
I'm not suggesting everyone agree with me. This is only my opinion. I am just hoping for another "old school" type of MMO to come out again some day. I'm thinking it is not likely. But, I'm pretty sure there are many more of you out there that feel the same way.
Edited by alleigha on September 11, 2014 9:34PM Just want to say first, that I love the artwork, and some of the inventive quests in ESO. Not here to bash it, but to share my opinion.
Long story short first: 1. I would love a game that encourages friendship and group dynamics (classes) by making grouping a necessity from the very lower levels on up. 2. Make gameplay and goals more difficult so that players HAD to work together, and depend on ALL classes. 3. Have one guild, not many.
Ok, breaking down some finer points:
Basically, I would love an "old school" type of MMO. By this, I mean one where you relied very much on group interaction. Have 4 main classes that were are very clearly defined. I think this fosters strong guilds and friendships in the game, and the feeling that your class is vital to achieving your personal and their guilds goals.
Next, would love goals (like obtaining a mount or armor) to be harder to achieve, and the penalties for dying tougher. Then it is very gratifying when the guild or group finally accomplishes their goals. For example, in a past game it took our guild 6 months to achieve a flying dragon mount, and it was a blast. It was a very long quest line, very hard to do, but you felt proud of it in the end and I made some great friendships. And it gave players a reason to log on each night.
Making dying harder. In an older mmo; If you died in a dungeon you would have to wait 3 days to retrieve your armor (on your body!) unless your guild/group got your tombstone. Sounds really bad, but it made the game challenging and forced you to work together. Dying almost felt like a real death, haha. Another game took away substantial XP for dying, which seems awful, but you were on your toes and worked hard at your class.
I know many people disagree with this type of MMO, or think that it is too hard or there is too much grouping now. But, I'm going to step out and disagree with this. I think there less communication/friendships between players and within guilds because MMO's have become much easier, and do not stress groups as much as they used to. Friendships and communication was there because it had to be there to succeed.
The need for grouping should be in the first 50 levels, so that players need to join with others right away, not later. This would benefit ESO as well, because this makes players loyal to each other, and the game.
I'm not suggesting everyone agree with me. This is only my opinion. I am just hoping for another "old school" type of MMO to come out again some day. I'm thinking it is not likely. But, I'm pretty sure there are many more of you out there that feel the same way.
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SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
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If that were the case, i wouldn't be here.The need for grouping should be in the first 50 levels, so that players need to join with others right away, not later. This would benefit ESO as well, because this makes players loyal to each other, and the game.
I absolutely hate being forced to group. IMHO, grouping should always be optional, not mandatory, to go through the main story line of a game.
I have no problem with dungeons or quests or whole zones that have group only content. But they should never be mandatory to advance through the main game and block you from progression if you're playing solo. 9 -
Arthur_Spoonfondle✭✭✭✭Making an MMORPG harder and more demanding would be a good thing and ESO certainly goes further that way than the ludicrously easy levelling in WoW and Rift.
No developer of an MMORPG is going to deliberately alienate the huge number of players who like to play mainly solo, or play at odd times (perhaps because of shift-work or local time zone) when few others play, right from the start of the game when it needs to draw the players in and get them spending money.5 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The original post is more of a description of what the OP wants in a game rather than an opinion on this game, and in that sense the title is very misleading.
There are games still that offer what the OP seeks, EQ is still going strong and FFXIV is very group-driven, as are Wildstar and ArcheAge, so perhaps this isn't the right game for the OP. However, it's very much the right game for me!Edited by Tandor on September 11, 2014 7:49PM5 -
bluesodafizz✭✭✭
If that were the case, i wouldn't be here.The need for grouping should be in the first 50 levels, so that players need to join with others right away, not later. This would benefit ESO as well, because this makes players loyal to each other, and the game.
I absolutely hate being forced to group. IMHO, grouping should always be optional, not mandatory, to go through the main story line of a game.
I have no problem with dungeons or quests or whole zones that have group only content. But they should never be mandatory to advance through the main game and block you from progression if you're playing solo.
SirAndy! You always say what I want to say before I even say it.
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Dominoid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That's what W* tried. Doesn't seem to be panning out ok when you design a game for 2% of the playing population.1 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm afraid that forcing people together does NOT create friendship, only resentment.
It makes REAL friendship (read: when you CHOOSE to work together) less likely than it already is to occur.
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KhajitFurTrader✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That's what W* tried. Doesn't seem to be panning out ok when you design a game for 2% of the playing population.
Why not say it out loud? Wildstar tried to sell vanilla WoW's (and to a lesser extend, BC's) raiding 'goodness' to a 2014 audience, and look what it got for doing it: players leaving in droves, and devs scrambling to implement a MegaServer tech before it's all too late. They refused to learn the lesson that even WoW had to learn: To each (player skill and level of commitment), their own (raid difficulty and ease of access). WoW, in which the early raids were the brain-childs of hardcore EQ raiders, was the first victim of its own success. It's a bit unfair, but sadly inevitable, that every other MMO is, too.
It's true what they say: WoW didn't revolutionize the genre, it just made it foolproof. Which means, by implication, that the great mass of fools will abandon each and every post-WoW MMO that doesn't cater to the fools. It's that simple.
It's not that I disagree with what you say, @alleigha. It's just that I think that no-one can sell a game like you've described today and can get away with it over any length of time anymore. The world has been forever changed. There's a much larger audience facing a bigger and bigger selection of games and business models. What hasn't changed is that people still want to be entertained in their free time, and to get a bang for their buck, but this is no contradiction.Edited by KhajitFurTrader on September 11, 2014 9:25PM6 -
alleigha✭The original post is more of a description of what the OP wants in a game rather than an opinion on this game, and in that sense the title is very misleading.
I put an edit in to make that more clear. I was speaking of both, that I didn't feel ESO was the type of game I preferred, and also what type of game I liked.
There are games still that offer what the OP seeks, EQ is still going strong and FFXIV is very group-driven, as are Wildstar and ArcheAge, so perhaps this isn't the right game for the OP. However, it's very much the right game for me!
EQ is not quite as hardcore as it used to be, but I played it for many, many years. I really loved Vanguard, but it had a very buggy start and had a lower player base, but is now gone. But it was awesome!! I have not tried the others you mentioned, but thank you! I will look into them. I am glad you like this ESO and I want it to succeed. Not everyone likes the same things, and I respect that.
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alleigha✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »I'm afraid that forcing people together does NOT create friendship, only resentment.
It makes REAL friendship (read: when you CHOOSE to work together) less likely than it already is to occur.
Depends on why you join an MMO. If it is for grouping, primarily, then the friendships are not forced because everyone is in it for the same reasons. But I think there is a place for both styles of games.
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alleigha✭
It's not that I disagree with what you say, @alleigha. It's just that I think that no-one can sell a game like you've described today and can get away with it over any length of time anymore. The world has been forever changed. There's a much larger audience facing a bigger and bigger selection of games and business models. What hasn't changed is that people still want to be entertained in their free time, and to get a bang for their buck, but this is no contradiction.[/quote]
Sadly, I think you are correct!! Such a bummer
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alleigha✭That's what W* tried. Doesn't seem to be panning out ok when you design a game for 2% of the playing population.
I think it may be more then 2 percent (although I have not done studies). I think there is quite a few older generation of MMO players who remember and appreciate the old school gaming experience and still long for it. I know personally of many friends, family, and even co-workers who reflect what I am saying here, have we have discussed it for years.
I seems today, too often the MMO producers cave in very quickly to demands instead of being ok with their uniqueness. They fear losing business so much, they don't carry out their vision and end up becoming generic, and people leave when the next title is released. Even 2 to 10 percent of the gaming population can be substantial if they attract a loyal base that will stay with them for a long period of time.1 -
Dominoid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That's what W* tried. Doesn't seem to be panning out ok when you design a game for 2% of the playing population.
I think it may be more then 2 percent (although I have not done studies). I think there is quite a few older generation of MMO players who remember and appreciate the old school gaming experience and still long for it. I know personally of many friends, family, and even co-workers who reflect what I am saying here, have we have discussed it for years.
I seems today, too often the MMO producers cave in very quickly to demands instead of being ok with their uniqueness. They fear losing business so much, they don't carry out their vision and end up becoming generic, and people leave when the next title is released. Even 2 to 10 percent of the gaming population can be substantial if they attract a loyal base that will stay with them for a long period of time.
I think there is quite a few older generation of MMO players who remember and appreciate the old school gaming experience and still long for it.
I agree, but those exact gamers now have a completely different life style and availability and can't play like that anymore. They can long for it, but it won't pay a developer's bills. As a whole, today's gamers don't have the attention span for such things.Edited by Dominoid on September 12, 2014 12:26PM2