The problem with nightblades...
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TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
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The only reason why DKs are good in 1v1 open combat is because a lot of DKs build for survivability, which is key in 1v1. Any NB can put on sword and shield, use 1v1 skills like double shades, and potion cooldown enchants to let you drink tripots every 15 seconds.DK has been nerfed in to still being by far the strongest class in the game. If you are having trouble as a DK then you are not going to be able to play as any class.
DK is 98% as good as the NB in 1v1, sneaking, assassination style play. Probably 200% as good in 1v1 without sneaking in open combat. The only real benefits a NB gets are either bugged or made irrelevant with a single armor trait.
Extremely good any class is OP with their playing style.
DK being 200% as good as NB isn't remotely plausible.
When a DK has a SnB they melt people who stand next to them. Templars blow people up. Sorcerers can destroy groups with exploding familiars.
NBs? Path of Darkness? Over capped magicka and spell dmg will get you a laughable 70 dmg per second out of it. That's before resistance and passive health regeneration...Edited by TheBull on September 10, 2014 3:42PMKilled by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard1 -
Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭
No sarcasm.
Sap essence. Ever heard of this?
Ultimate regeneration is so high that NBs can put up two veil of blades simultaneously in large battles.
More than "zero" AOE if you ask me.1 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭0 defensive cooldowns ZERO in a world of shields and spammable self heals...
Also NBs have ZERO AoE. In a Cyrodiil world of keep raids.
Dude, have you looked at nightblade abilities?
ITS CALLED DRAIN POWER imo, one of the best, if not the best, pbaoes in the game. It also builds ult like nothing else.
We also have path of darkness. 'But it has **** damage' comes your reply. True. But it boosts close range combat maneuverability, and those **** damage ticks can proc your hunter.
We can use impulse and whirlwind just as easily as the next class, and chaining power extract with either will give amazing numbers.
Dude learn your class and L2PThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭The only way they can one shot you is if you are a vampire/werewolf and they are running camouflaged hunter and it procs while you have no attributes in health. Even with 0 attributes in health you can't get health low enough for them to one shot you with any single attack without something else proccing or a follow up attack, its just impossible.
With bows it really feels like one-hit for Vampires.
1.500 Lethal Arrow
600 Camouflaged Procc
600 Heavy Attack
400 Venom Arrow
= 3.100 DMG
All those will hit you at once, even though it is a 3 Hit combination with a Procc.
That's right. NB have as good as no real survival options with their Gank Speccs around Bows and DW Ambush.DKs and the escape of sorcs. So if an NB fails to kill you or get you down to critically low amount of hp within the first 3-4 seconds, the person being ganked usually win.
If you want to have Survival as NB, you have to go the Path of a Bloodpriest. With no BurstDMG at all, but high Survivability.
That's about the size of it. PVE / Trials players saying NB is fine. It's PvP that needs fixing and that revolves around BORKED Shadow Cloak.
A PvP'r can opt for survivability and jack their ability to kill anything. No other class is put quite in that predicament.
It's not merely a L2P issue and finally having some sustainable dps doesn't close the gap. ZOS just fix shadowcloak already! Good grief.
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TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭0 defensive cooldowns ZERO in a world of shields and spammable self heals...
Also NBs have ZERO AoE. In a Cyrodiil world of keep raids.
Dude, have you looked at nightblade abilities?
ITS CALLED DRAIN POWER imo, one of the best, if not the best, pbaoes in the game. It also builds ult like nothing else.
We also have path of darkness. 'But it has **** damage' comes your reply. True. But it boosts close range combat maneuverability, and those **** damage ticks can proc your hunter.
We can use impulse and whirlwind just as easily as the next class, and chaining power extract with either will give amazing numbers.
Dude learn your class and L2P
Thank you!
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Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭
Actually, the iron skin passive only increase block damage by +10%. So assuming a 50% reduction of damage by block, the DK's block mitigates 55% rather than 50%. So the iron skin passive does not outweigh the shade debuff, especially when stamina drain and the shade's damage is taken into consideration.Shades only make the damage reduction equal to what DK's get from blocking through passives already and barely do any damage, a good DK will shrug off the amount of stamina loss from blocking them.1 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
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Let me know the next time Drain Power, Sap Essence, or Power Extraction appears on your kill log. I challenge anyone to produce a screen shot of any of these skills on a kill recap.0 defensive cooldowns ZERO in a world of shields and spammable self heals...
Also NBs have ZERO AoE. In a Cyrodiil world of keep raids.
Dude, have you looked at nightblade abilities?
ITS CALLED DRAIN POWER imo, one of the best, if not the best, pbaoes in the game. It also builds ult like nothing else.
We also have path of darkness. 'But it has **** damage' comes your reply. True. But it boosts close range combat maneuverability, and those **** damage ticks can proc your hunter.
We can use impulse and whirlwind just as easily as the next class, and chaining power extract with either will give amazing numbers.
Dude learn your class and L2P
Some know who I am. I do this a lot, and relatively well. This is the NBs struggle. So many things look good on paper but when out in the field simply do not perform.
Edited by TheBull on September 10, 2014 4:09PMKilled by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard1 -
GwaynLoki✭✭✭I don't know the numbers for a fact but my guess is that Sneak from behind puts you at 100% crit rating. So if someone stacks all impenetrable you still have a chance to miss that crit. Shadowy Disguise just adds 100% to whatever you have so I would get 167% crit.
No it doesn't. Sneaking adds bonus dmg to your attack. While your attack can crit, the sneak bonus dmg can't. Impenetrable reduces the chance of your enemy to crit on you: 100 points of Impen reduce enemy crit chance by 10%.
http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1ya8yz/sneak_attack_info/
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/stealth-attacks/ #3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eur7R3791Ww Edited by GwaynLoki on September 10, 2014 4:10PM1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
No sarcasm.
Sap essence. Ever heard of this?
Ultimate regeneration is so high that NBs can put up two veil of blades simultaneously in large battles.
More than "zero" AOE if you ask me.
Sap Essence spam for AoE damage + self and group healing + ultimate spam like crazy = roflprofit
I throw in mirage for a bit extra survivability, Dual Shades from Sneak to confuse enemies then Ambush into a group of enemy players and spam like crazy while I hide behind my shield.
It works really well, especially when running with a Templar for emergency heals just in case.
It's Magicka-heavy to do, and I run Warlock+Seducer combo to sustain it long enough for kills.
Realistically though, it reflects further on how much casters outperform melee.
Even taking the Stamina v. Magicka builds out of the equation, and looking at caster v. melee on purely Class skills, performance as a Light Armour Nightcaster is noticeably higher than on the Melee build....
Let me know the next time Drain Power, Sap Essence, or Power Extraction appears on your kill log. I challenge anyone to produce a screen shot of any of these skills on a kill recap.
...
What do I do if I'm the one killing people with Sap Essence, but I don't have the monthly bandwidth to upload it to youtube (or if I manage to, the quality will be too low to be meaningful).
I am by no means a skilled Nightblade, but Sap Essence + Ultimate spam chalks up a lot of kill tally for me."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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heyguyslol✭✭✭Threads like this are always the highlight of my day as I'm always in need of a good laugh.
Seems like 90% of the player base just doesn't take the time to L2P then they cry to the devs that they can't win and scream buff.@heyguyslol
__________________
Theodora West
V14 Sorcerer
Daggerfall
http://twitch.tv/heyguyslol_19751 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The challenge is for anyone.
No sarcasm.
Sap essence. Ever heard of this?
Ultimate regeneration is so high that NBs can put up two veil of blades simultaneously in large battles.
More than "zero" AOE if you ask me.
Sap Essence spam for AoE damage + self and group healing + ultimate spam like crazy = roflprofit
I throw in mirage for a bit extra survivability, Dual Shades from Sneak to confuse enemies then Ambush into a group of enemy players and spam like crazy while I hide behind my shield.
It works really well, especially when running with a Templar for emergency heals just in case.
It's Magicka-heavy to do, and I run Warlock+Seducer combo to sustain it long enough for kills.
Realistically though, it reflects further on how much casters outperform melee.
Even taking the Stamina v. Magicka builds out of the equation, and looking at caster v. melee on purely Class skills, performance as a Light Armour Nightcaster is noticeably higher than on the Melee build....
Let me know the next time Drain Power, Sap Essence, or Power Extraction appears on your kill log. I challenge anyone to produce a screen shot of any of these skills on a kill recap.
...
What do I do if I'm the one killing people with Sap Essence, but I don't have the monthly bandwidth to upload it to youtube (or if I manage to, the quality will be too low to be meaningful).
I am by no means a skilled Nightblade, but Sap Essence + Ultimate spam chalks up a lot of kill tally for me.Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard0 -
GwaynLoki✭✭✭Actually, the iron skin passive only increase block damage by +10%. So assuming a 50% reduction of damage by block, the DK's block mitigates 55% rather than 50%. So the iron skin passive does not outweigh the shade debuff, especially when stamina drain and the shade's damage is taken into consideration.
Devs stated that all bonuses in the game get added up not multiplicated so it's probably 60% - if it's not one of the exceptions from the rule.ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »The changes we recently made to Bolt Escape were intended, and the ability is not bugged. Here is a brief explanation of the Bolt Escape cost increase:
All bonuses in our game are additive (not multiplicative). After using Bolt Escape, if you cast it again within 4 seconds of the last time you cast Bolt Escape, the next use costs 50% more Magicka. Any bonuses you have that grant a reduction to Magicka cost--such as Evocation--also reduce the 50% increase to Bolt Escape.
from here http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110478/frage-an-andere-spieler-sorcerer-und-moderatorEdited by GwaynLoki on September 10, 2014 4:19PM0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Let me know the next time Drain Power, Sap Essence, or Power Extraction appears on your kill log. I challenge anyone to produce a screen shot of any of these skills on a kill recap.0 defensive cooldowns ZERO in a world of shields and spammable self heals...
Also NBs have ZERO AoE. In a Cyrodiil world of keep raids.
Dude, have you looked at nightblade abilities?
ITS CALLED DRAIN POWER imo, one of the best, if not the best, pbaoes in the game. It also builds ult like nothing else.
We also have path of darkness. 'But it has **** damage' comes your reply. True. But it boosts close range combat maneuverability, and those **** damage ticks can proc your hunter.
We can use impulse and whirlwind just as easily as the next class, and chaining power extract with either will give amazing numbers.
Dude learn your class and L2P
Some know who I am. I do this a lot, and relatively well. This is the NBs struggle. So many thinks look good on paper but when out in the field simply do not perform.
Ok, we have vastly different experiences then. I accept that.
I have used these, It has worked.
I don't always zerg, but when I do... :P
I have also 1v1'd Templars and DKs on multiple occasions and have come out on top. I'm sure they were just bad at their class, but judging by the fact that a good many of them had higher PvP rank than me says otherwise. Maybe they just weren't expecting a nb to actually attack from the front...
I have seen the red animation eminate from many zergballs, so there are definately nbs in there doing their thing.
But, of course, most don't pick nightblades to play that way...
And I almost never look at my death recap. If you killed me, you outplayed me, and that's all I care about.
So I'm not going to say l2p again, that was rude and I'm sorry, but with the number of nightblades I run into who think siphoning is a dot tree... Only agony cripple and soul tether fit that description.
And, please, tell me more about the Nightblade struggle. I've played my nightblade since day -5 (and more in beta) the only time I encounter this 'struggle' is here on the forums. And to be clear, I mean nightblade, not stamina build. That's a whole different issue. (Though, I don't get that one much either anymore... I've done plenty of CoH and trials runs with stamina built players...)This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭I don't know the numbers for a fact but my guess is that Sneak from behind puts you at 100% crit rating. So if someone stacks all impenetrable you still have a chance to miss that crit. Shadowy Disguise just adds 100% to whatever you have so I would get 167% crit.
No it doesn't. Sneaking adds bonus dmg to your attack. While your attack can crit, the sneak bonus dmg can't. Impenetrable reduces the chance of your enemy to crit on you: 100 points of Impen reduce enemy crit chance by 10%.
http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1ya8yz/sneak_attack_info/
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/stealth-attacks/ #3http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eur7R3791Ww
Maybe it is a bug or an error in my mods readout. The FTC mod shows the bonus damage from sneak the same way it shows crit and it seems to hit for around the same amount as a crit, maybe a bit more, so I just assumed it crit. I know there are times when I have been behind a player completely in sneak and at least my mod showed no damage bonus. I also read a post where someone tested the bonus damage from sneak and found that impenetrable actually had a chance to have the bonus damage from sneak not happen. Maybe they tested it incorrectly I'll see if I can find the post.
All of those posts you showed are 5+ months old is there any more recent tests now that everyone you attack is stacking impenetrable?1 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭This is the thread I was talking about, I was not part of the test so I don't know how reliable the test was. The claim was that impenetrable can possibly take away bonus damage from sneak attack.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/sneak-attack-bonus-and-impenetrable-testing-and-question/0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭0 defensive cooldowns ZERO in a world of shields and spammable self heals...
Also NBs have ZERO AoE. In a Cyrodiil world of keep raids.
Dude, have you looked at nightblade abilities?
ITS CALLED DRAIN POWER imo, one of the best, if not the best, pbaoes in the game. It also builds ult like nothing else.
We also have path of darkness. 'But it has **** damage' comes your reply. True. But it boosts close range combat maneuverability, and those **** damage ticks can proc your hunter.
We can use impulse and whirlwind just as easily as the next class, and chaining power extract with either will give amazing numbers.
Dude learn your class and L2P
Did anyone say that NB-mages are bad?? A lot of people rolled this class NOT TO PLAY a mage. So please, tell me more, how I can spam drain power in a stamina build?Edited by Artis on September 10, 2014 9:50PM0 -
Shizashane✭✭✭My Resto siphon NB is so hard to be competitive with 1vs 1 excellent, 1 vs 2 maybe, 1 vs 3.... your dead. I did have DW but trying to balance it with resto was just too taxing. Any pointers?"Sound the charge, into glory ride! 10,000 side by side"0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭0 defensive cooldowns ZERO in a world of shields and spammable self heals...
Also NBs have ZERO AoE. In a Cyrodiil world of keep raids.
Dude, have you looked at nightblade abilities?
ITS CALLED DRAIN POWER imo, one of the best, if not the best, pbaoes in the game. It also builds ult like nothing else.
We also have path of darkness. 'But it has **** damage' comes your reply. True. But it boosts close range combat maneuverability, and those **** damage ticks can proc your hunter.
We can use impulse and whirlwind just as easily as the next class, and chaining power extract with either will give amazing numbers.
Dude learn your class and L2P
Did anyone say that NB-mages are bad?? A lot of people rolled this class NOT TO PLAY a mage. So please, tell me more, how I can spam drain power in a stamina build?
I'm talking about a class called nightblade. Not a weapon line.
This is a thread about nightblades not duel wield, not bow, not 2h, not s&b.
It's specifically titled "the problem with nightblades," not "the problem with stamina builds." That's a different thread. It's not the class that has the problem, it's the build people want to use with it.
I am well aware of the poor description for the class that lead so many to assume it's playstyle. I'm sorry you don't want to use the class abilities as they are, but that's not the games fault.
And for the record, when I do use my 'stamina build' I will hit my power extract at least once to get that weapon power boost. In that case, it's not about spamming it, but using it tactically.
If you still think stamina builds are bad, then you obviously have not seen how beastly NB dw and bow can be in Vr dungeons and trials.Edited by Shunravi on September 10, 2014 10:12PMThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cloak is supposedly being fixed for 1.4... Let's see if it works this time.ZOS_AmeliaR wrote: »Hey everyone. As part of Update 4 (currently planned to go live next week), we will be fixing the bug in which damage ticks from Nightblade DoTs were causing Shadow Cloak and its morphs to be removed early.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1259052#Comment_12590522 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Cloak is supposedly being fixed for 1.4... Let's see if it works this time.ZOS_AmeliaR wrote: »Hey everyone. As part of Update 4 (currently planned to go live next week), we will be fixing the bug in which damage ticks from Nightblade DoTs were causing Shadow Cloak and its morphs to be removed early.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1259052#Comment_1259052
That is great news.
Thank you for cross-posting it here; I would not have caught that otherwise.
I am glad that ZOS has managed to find a way of rectifying this."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭Good that cloak is getting fixed. That will make a lot of people happy, including the sniper builds. I'm glad I have my piercing mark to counter other nightblades. lol
Honestly, I wished they had named the class something else. Nightblade in Elder Scrolls lore is a mage, but that is not what the name suggests, just like the term "Sorceror" does not by itself suggest a heavy armor mage, which is what a sorcerer in ES lore is. A weapon-neutral name, like shadowstrider or something, would've been better.I am well aware of the poor description for the class that lead so many to assume it's playstyle. I'm sorry you don't want to use the class abilities as they are, but that's not the games fault.3 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
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Yep change the tool-tip. That will fix it.Good that cloak is getting fixed. That will make a lot of people happy, including the sniper builds. I'm glad I have my piercing mark to counter other nightblades. lol
Honestly, I wished they had named the class something else. Nightblade in Elder Scrolls lore is a mage, but that is not what the name suggests, just like the term "Sorceror" does not by itself suggest a heavy armor mage, which is what a sorcerer in ES lore is. A weapon-neutral name, like shadowstrider or something, would've been better.I am well aware of the poor description for the class that lead so many to assume it's playstyle. I'm sorry you don't want to use the class abilities as they are, but that's not the games fault.
Edited by TheBull on September 10, 2014 11:25PMKilled by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard0 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Sap/Drain is more of a AoE heal than a damage doing AoE. There is a reason why no one has ever seen it on a death recap.0 defensive cooldowns ZERO in a world of shields and spammable self heals...
Also NBs have ZERO AoE. In a Cyrodiil world of keep raids.
Dude, have you looked at nightblade abilities?
ITS CALLED DRAIN POWER imo, one of the best, if not the best, pbaoes in the game. It also builds ult like nothing else.
We also have path of darkness. 'But it has **** damage' comes your reply. True. But it boosts close range combat maneuverability, and those **** damage ticks can proc your hunter.
We can use impulse and whirlwind just as easily as the next class, and chaining power extract with either will give amazing numbers.
Dude learn your class and L2P
Did anyone say that NB-mages are bad?? A lot of people rolled this class NOT TO PLAY a mage. So please, tell me more, how I can spam drain power in a stamina build?
Edited by TheBull on September 10, 2014 11:30PMKilled by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard1 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yep change the tool-tip. That will fix it.Good that cloak is getting fixed. That will make a lot of people happy, including the sniper builds. I'm glad I have my piercing mark to counter other nightblades. lol
Honestly, I wished they had named the class something else. Nightblade in Elder Scrolls lore is a mage, but that is not what the name suggests, just like the term "Sorceror" does not by itself suggest a heavy armor mage, which is what a sorcerer in ES lore is. A weapon-neutral name, like shadowstrider or something, would've been better.I am well aware of the poor description for the class that lead so many to assume it's playstyle. I'm sorry you don't want to use the class abilities as they are, but that's not the games fault.
Shadow Walker 0 -
Bouvin✭✭✭✭✭
✭NB don't need buffed. Just need the bugged skills fixed. Mostly Shadow Cloak, PvE and PvP.
FYI, Fast moving stealth is getting nerfed 1.4.2.1 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭Good that cloak is getting fixed. That will make a lot of people happy, including the sniper builds. I'm glad I have my piercing mark to counter other nightblades. lol
Honestly, I wished they had named the class something else. Nightblade in Elder Scrolls lore is a mage, but that is not what the name suggests, just like the term "Sorceror" does not by itself suggest a heavy armor mage, which is what a sorcerer in ES lore is. A weapon-neutral name, like shadowstrider or something, would've been better.I am well aware of the poor description for the class that lead so many to assume it's playstyle. I'm sorry you don't want to use the class abilities as they are, but that's not the games fault.
Heh, personally, I think they shouldn't have tried calling them classes, and called them "spell disciplines" or somesuch.
Fire, Shadow, Mystical, Divine.
Would have prevented a lot of (IMO) confusion.
Achievements Suck1 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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I reckon Spellcrafting and Champion system will do that too, and I don't care. I like the idea that other people will be able to do restoration school stuff, or that I'll be able to pick up Illusions, and Alterations as a Templar. I like this, because it feels like true Elder Scrolls development. The class is just the beginning, and may be a big part of our characters, but I see no reason why we shouldn't be able to become something more.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>1