The Elder Scrolls Online

The problem with nightblades...

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  • elwhy
    elwhy
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    GrimMauKin wrote: »
    I like my Nightblade!

    I haven't played anything else though so don't know how they compare and I often feel seriously out gunned when watching other characters (particularly dealing group damage) but I think that if you learn to think and play in a sneaky sort of way they can be surprisingly effective.

    I love my Nightblade, too. But I'm rolling DK and Sorc alts, and besides not being able to stealth around, it's easy mode for sure, especially with DK. Granted I have learned the mechanics of the game leveling a NB up to VR12, it still feels extremely easy, which is not what I wanted. Just saying, other classes do it better, but not as fun for me.

    This is my first MMO, and I really miss the difficulty setting. It feels like it's on "faceroll" setting now, unless I run into a DK in PVP and then it's automatically on "legendary." Which is fun, cuz sometimes I win and feel like a freaking boss.
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    butterfly442 wrote: »
    everyone else does it better....

    Seeing Sorcerers 1-2 shot people in PvP on a Stealth build is pretty intense, I will admit.
    I still love my Nightblade though, even if I don't get quite as high of a Stealth Burst as Sorcs.

    Seeing Dragonknight solo a group of enemy players is pretty epic, I will admit.
    I still love my Nightblade though, even if I don't feel quite as powerful as a DK when fighting more than 1 person at a time.

    Seeing Templar sustain forever and heal allies is pretty awe inspiring, I will admit.
    I still love my Nightblade though, even if my heal spec doesn't benefit myself and my team as much as a Templar.

    At least none of the other classes are quite as fun for me to play as my Nightblade is.
    That's something Nightblade does for me that other classes can't do better.
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
    Lost girls find a way.
  • TehMagnus
    TehMagnus
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    kitsinni wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »

    The only way they can one shot you is if you are a vampire/werewolf and they are running camouflaged hunter and it procs while you have no attributes in health. Even with 0 attributes in health you can't get health low enough for them to one shot you with any single attack without something else proccing or a follow up attack, its just impossible.

    Nope, knocked down to the floor with arrow plus poison arrow plus a couple of hits and you're done without even being able to react. Doesn't matter if it's 3 actual hits. As long as you're unable to even react I consider it a One Shot. There's also the Knock down + ult + impale =/impale combo that works very well.
    kitsinni wrote: »

    So you are saying that NB's have the highest DPS in trials? Did something change drastically in the last month or something?

    It has been this way for months, more or less since the last DK nerfs (especially the stacking banner one). Perhaps you just don't know how to play an effective trials NB? Only thing that can sometimes do more damage than a good NB is the crushing shock build for DKs that only works greatly on adds where Evil Hunter works. For everything else, a good NB will beat a good DK dps wise.

    How exactly is 3 actual hits a one shot? Take your scenario with oc stamina and weapon damage and do the calculations. Even that wouldn't one shot your without follow up attacks even if all three crit and we call all three a "one shot" unless you have very low health. Also you can react it takes like a second to break stun and hold block.

    High end averages 1700 Lethal Arrow if it crits (extremely rare and way on the high side), 500 light attack and 500 poison arrow. That is 2800 health with everything critting, everything hitting at the highest amount, basically no armor mitigation and nothing being dodged. In reality you are talking about someone with no attributes in health, no health equipment, and no food to one shot them without something extra hitting. Even with those extremely high averages and everything critting you don't find many people in PvP with less than 2800 health.

    Add in camouflaged hunter + the proc you might get it though.

    As far as PvE maybe NB's have passed up sorc and DK for stuff that isn't group pulls I quit doing PvE a couple months ago so I really should not argue it.

    All I know is what I see on my end. I don't need fancy calculations.

    Getting killed before I can even react or press a key (That key being Reflective scales) by a NB archer is quite common and it is One shot since it's impossible to react. Doesn't matter if you get 100 attacks in, as long as they're done in 1 sec and you can't react to them it's just like a One Shot. Same goes with burst attacks.

    I got all attributes to health and Epic VR5 Sweetrolls so no Health issues. NBs are just broken OP when attacking from stealth when you play them right. And they're a pain in the arse when they play sneaky on 1v1.

    If you have all attributes to health and 257 health from food there is no way they are killing you in one second unless you are a vamp/werewolf and they get a lucky crit. The calculations are pretty basic nothing fancy just pretty much elementary school math. Even with no sets, class, emp alliance or any other bonus you are already out of one shot territory with that much health even if you have no impenetrable and they crit every time.

    Here is the real question when they don't burst you down and you do hit reflective scales and green dragon blood do they ever kill you still 1v1?

    No because archers are cr**, no matter what class plays them, don't even get me started, I hate them, especially the ones that will try to kill you, fail, hide, wait for 5 -10 min, then try again. I'm not saying either that all NBs always one shot me, but it's the only class with the capacity to do so.

    Hybrid Nbs using DW that know what they are doing are quite good in 1v1 in my opinion, have had some interesting fights with some of them I didn't think I'd loose where I got my arse handed to me.

    I've had the chance to fight vs very good NBs and Sorcs in PVP (Wabbajack EU) and the skill difference could be measured in light years when you compare them to most of the people playing this game and claiming their class suxs and needs buffs.

    I'm really confused. First you say they can "sneak for ever while walking extreme speeds" yet neither of those have anything to do with nightblade no one can sneak for ever but medium armor helps and the speed is about vampire and sets. Then you say they are "too op" but later say they are no problem and suck except for one build with DW, but earlier it was Magicka builds that just spammed two skills. Follow that up with they can always one shot you, which turned out to be 5 shots but they usually can't one shot you. I am having a hard time following.

    They can sneak for ever while walking extreme speeds and yes it has everything to do with a NB since it's the only class who can render itself invisible and it's the only one that's a pain in the arse @ doing so. A good nb can hide sneak & run away from you/play with you for hours before ending you: Everything to do with a NB.

    I say they are no problem because most of the people playing them play them wrong (and come here and complain about the class being broken). And yeah, those who play them right, don't need much more than 2 or 3 skills which proves people really have simple L2P issues.

    Killing you before you have time to react is a one shot and they are the only ones who can do it. You can take it literally and yell " NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN we are not op, it's not 1 shot, it's impossible, we just 4 shot you in 1s without you being able to react, it's NOT the same" (hint: it is).

    Bottom line is: "Plays as you want" != be awesome with any snip build.
    Edited by TehMagnus on September 9, 2014 9:22AM
  • GwaynLoki
    GwaynLoki
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    Azarul wrote: »
    As a DK the only class I fear is the NB. Have no idea how you think your class is broke.

    Interesting. Interesting because all NB comments about assassinating other classes were that DKs generally just heal up and proceed to stomp them. Are you a vampire by any chance?
    magnusnet wrote: »
    They can sneak for ever while walking extreme speeds and yes it has everything to do with a NB since it's the only class who can render itself invisible and it's the only one that's a pain in the arse @ doing so. A good nb can hide sneak & run away from you/play with you for hours before ending you: Everything to do with a NB.

    Everyone can use an invisibility potion. NB's cloak has been heavily bugged since launch and is outright unreliable in any extended fight.
    magnusnet wrote: »

    Getting killed before I can even react or press a key (That key being Reflective scales) by a NB archer is quite common and it is One shot since it's impossible to react. Doesn't matter if you get 100 attacks in, as long as they're done in 1 sec and you can't react to them it's just like a One Shot. Same goes with burst attacks.

    I got all attributes to health and Epic VR5 Sweetrolls so no Health issues. NBs are just broken OP when attacking from stealth when you play them right. [...]
    No because archers are cr**, no matter what class plays them, don't even get me started, I hate them, especially the ones that will try to kill you, fail, hide, wait for 5 -10 min, then try again. I'm not saying either that all NBs always one shot me, but it's the only class with the capacity to do so.

    I can agree that the oneshots from archer chars are annoying but fact is that this isn't an issue just with NBs. Any class can do the bow combo that has been mentioned. Sorcs and DKs can even buff their weapon dmg for that case with a class skill. Oneshots from Ambush combos...well tbh you can actually counter those melee attacks, all you neeed is some decent armor and reactions. Break cc and: stealth if you are NB, heal up if you are DK or Templar, use BE if you are sorc. There is indeed counterplay to such things. I wouldn't complain though about NB getting less burst in exchange for some more sustain like a class heal. Or as an alternative, NB cloak could finally getting fixed...
    Edited by GwaynLoki on September 9, 2014 11:20AM
  • CapuchinSeven
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    They can one shots you, sneak for ever while walking extreme speeds and they only require 2 or 3 spammable skills for magicka ones to be effective. They also have the highest DPS in Trials. Two words to describe them: Too op.

    Following the logic of people asking for DK nerfs, NBs also need nerf.

    Everything you just listed, every class can do, has nothing to do with Nightblades and is just a simple game mechanic.
  • CapuchinSeven
    CapuchinSeven
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »

    The only way they can one shot you is if you are a vampire/werewolf and they are running camouflaged hunter and it procs while you have no attributes in health. Even with 0 attributes in health you can't get health low enough for them to one shot you with any single attack without something else proccing or a follow up attack, its just impossible.

    Nope, knocked down to the floor with arrow plus poison arrow plus a couple of hits and you're done without even being able to react. Doesn't matter if it's 3 actual hits. As long as you're unable to even react I consider it a One Shot. There's also the Knock down + ult + impale =/impale combo that works very well.
    kitsinni wrote: »

    So you are saying that NB's have the highest DPS in trials? Did something change drastically in the last month or something?

    It has been this way for months, more or less since the last DK nerfs (especially the stacking banner one). Perhaps you just don't know how to play an effective trials NB? Only thing that can sometimes do more damage than a good NB is the crushing shock build for DKs that only works greatly on adds where Evil Hunter works. For everything else, a good NB will beat a good DK dps wise.

    How exactly is 3 actual hits a one shot? Take your scenario with oc stamina and weapon damage and do the calculations. Even that wouldn't one shot your without follow up attacks even if all three crit and we call all three a "one shot" unless you have very low health. Also you can react it takes like a second to break stun and hold block.

    High end averages 1700 Lethal Arrow if it crits (extremely rare and way on the high side), 500 light attack and 500 poison arrow. That is 2800 health with everything critting, everything hitting at the highest amount, basically no armor mitigation and nothing being dodged. In reality you are talking about someone with no attributes in health, no health equipment, and no food to one shot them without something extra hitting. Even with those extremely high averages and everything critting you don't find many people in PvP with less than 2800 health.

    Add in camouflaged hunter + the proc you might get it though.

    As far as PvE maybe NB's have passed up sorc and DK for stuff that isn't group pulls I quit doing PvE a couple months ago so I really should not argue it.

    All I know is what I see on my end. I don't need fancy calculations.

    Getting killed before I can even react or press a key (That key being Reflective scales) by a NB archer is quite common and it is One shot since it's impossible to react. Doesn't matter if you get 100 attacks in, as long as they're done in 1 sec and you can't react to them it's just like a One Shot. Same goes with burst attacks.

    I got all attributes to health and Epic VR5 Sweetrolls so no Health issues. NBs are just broken OP when attacking from stealth when you play them right. And they're a pain in the arse when they play sneaky on 1v1.

    If you have all attributes to health and 257 health from food there is no way they are killing you in one second unless you are a vamp/werewolf and they get a lucky crit. The calculations are pretty basic nothing fancy just pretty much elementary school math. Even with no sets, class, emp alliance or any other bonus you are already out of one shot territory with that much health even if you have no impenetrable and they crit every time.

    Here is the real question when they don't burst you down and you do hit reflective scales and green dragon blood do they ever kill you still 1v1?

    No because archers are cr**, no matter what class plays them, don't even get me started, I hate them, especially the ones that will try to kill you, fail, hide, wait for 5 -10 min, then try again. I'm not saying either that all NBs always one shot me, but it's the only class with the capacity to do so.

    Hybrid Nbs using DW that know what they are doing are quite good in 1v1 in my opinion, have had some interesting fights with some of them I didn't think I'd loose where I got my arse handed to me.

    I've had the chance to fight vs very good NBs and Sorcs in PVP (Wabbajack EU) and the skill difference could be measured in light years when you compare them to most of the people playing this game and claiming their class suxs and needs buffs.

    I'm really confused. First you say they can "sneak for ever while walking extreme speeds" yet neither of those have anything to do with nightblade no one can sneak for ever but medium armor helps and the speed is about vampire and sets. Then you say they are "too op" but later say they are no problem and suck except for one build with DW, but earlier it was Magicka builds that just spammed two skills. Follow that up with they can always one shot you, which turned out to be 5 shots but they usually can't one shot you. I am having a hard time following.

    They can sneak for ever while walking extreme speeds and yes it has everything to do with a NB since it's the only class who can render itself invisible and it's the only one that's a pain in the arse @ doing so. A good nb can hide sneak & run away from you/play with you for hours before ending you: Everything to do with a NB.

    I say they are no problem because most of the people playing them play them wrong (and come here and complain about the class being broken). And yeah, those who play them right, don't need much more than 2 or 3 skills which proves people really have simple L2P issues.

    Killing you before you have time to react is a one shot and they are the only ones who can do it. You can take it literally and yell " NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN we are not op, it's not 1 shot, it's impossible, we just 4 shot you in 1s without you being able to react, it's NOT the same" (hint: it is).

    Bottom line is: "Plays as you want" != be awesome with any snip build.

    ...no, again for you.

    Everything you've listed has nothing do with Nightblades, the set bonus you keep raging about is for *hidden* which everyone can do, not for Nightblade *cloak*.
  • kitsinni
    kitsinni
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »

    The only way they can one shot you is if you are a vampire/werewolf and they are running camouflaged hunter and it procs while you have no attributes in health. Even with 0 attributes in health you can't get health low enough for them to one shot you with any single attack without something else proccing or a follow up attack, its just impossible.

    Nope, knocked down to the floor with arrow plus poison arrow plus a couple of hits and you're done without even being able to react. Doesn't matter if it's 3 actual hits. As long as you're unable to even react I consider it a One Shot. There's also the Knock down + ult + impale =/impale combo that works very well.
    kitsinni wrote: »

    So you are saying that NB's have the highest DPS in trials? Did something change drastically in the last month or something?

    It has been this way for months, more or less since the last DK nerfs (especially the stacking banner one). Perhaps you just don't know how to play an effective trials NB? Only thing that can sometimes do more damage than a good NB is the crushing shock build for DKs that only works greatly on adds where Evil Hunter works. For everything else, a good NB will beat a good DK dps wise.

    How exactly is 3 actual hits a one shot? Take your scenario with oc stamina and weapon damage and do the calculations. Even that wouldn't one shot your without follow up attacks even if all three crit and we call all three a "one shot" unless you have very low health. Also you can react it takes like a second to break stun and hold block.

    High end averages 1700 Lethal Arrow if it crits (extremely rare and way on the high side), 500 light attack and 500 poison arrow. That is 2800 health with everything critting, everything hitting at the highest amount, basically no armor mitigation and nothing being dodged. In reality you are talking about someone with no attributes in health, no health equipment, and no food to one shot them without something extra hitting. Even with those extremely high averages and everything critting you don't find many people in PvP with less than 2800 health.

    Add in camouflaged hunter + the proc you might get it though.

    As far as PvE maybe NB's have passed up sorc and DK for stuff that isn't group pulls I quit doing PvE a couple months ago so I really should not argue it.

    All I know is what I see on my end. I don't need fancy calculations.

    Getting killed before I can even react or press a key (That key being Reflective scales) by a NB archer is quite common and it is One shot since it's impossible to react. Doesn't matter if you get 100 attacks in, as long as they're done in 1 sec and you can't react to them it's just like a One Shot. Same goes with burst attacks.

    I got all attributes to health and Epic VR5 Sweetrolls so no Health issues. NBs are just broken OP when attacking from stealth when you play them right. And they're a pain in the arse when they play sneaky on 1v1.

    If you have all attributes to health and 257 health from food there is no way they are killing you in one second unless you are a vamp/werewolf and they get a lucky crit. The calculations are pretty basic nothing fancy just pretty much elementary school math. Even with no sets, class, emp alliance or any other bonus you are already out of one shot territory with that much health even if you have no impenetrable and they crit every time.

    Here is the real question when they don't burst you down and you do hit reflective scales and green dragon blood do they ever kill you still 1v1?

    No because archers are cr**, no matter what class plays them, don't even get me started, I hate them, especially the ones that will try to kill you, fail, hide, wait for 5 -10 min, then try again. I'm not saying either that all NBs always one shot me, but it's the only class with the capacity to do so.

    Hybrid Nbs using DW that know what they are doing are quite good in 1v1 in my opinion, have had some interesting fights with some of them I didn't think I'd loose where I got my arse handed to me.

    I've had the chance to fight vs very good NBs and Sorcs in PVP (Wabbajack EU) and the skill difference could be measured in light years when you compare them to most of the people playing this game and claiming their class suxs and needs buffs.

    I'm really confused. First you say they can "sneak for ever while walking extreme speeds" yet neither of those have anything to do with nightblade no one can sneak for ever but medium armor helps and the speed is about vampire and sets. Then you say they are "too op" but later say they are no problem and suck except for one build with DW, but earlier it was Magicka builds that just spammed two skills. Follow that up with they can always one shot you, which turned out to be 5 shots but they usually can't one shot you. I am having a hard time following.

    They can sneak for ever while walking extreme speeds and yes it has everything to do with a NB since it's the only class who can render itself invisible and it's the only one that's a pain in the arse @ doing so. A good nb can hide sneak & run away from you/play with you for hours before ending you: Everything to do with a NB.

    I say they are no problem because most of the people playing them play them wrong (and come here and complain about the class being broken). And yeah, those who play them right, don't need much more than 2 or 3 skills which proves people really have simple L2P issues.

    Killing you before you have time to react is a one shot and they are the only ones who can do it. You can take it literally and yell " NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN we are not op, it's not 1 shot, it's impossible, we just 4 shot you in 1s without you being able to react, it's NOT the same" (hint: it is).

    Bottom line is: "Plays as you want" != be awesome with any snip build.

    Nightblade doesn't sneak any faster by default than any other class. There is one crappy morph of one skill that allows you to sneak 25% faster I guess 25% is "extreme speeds" but nothing in nightblade allows you to sneak longer. In fact a DK in Nights Silence + Vamp will sneak 100% faster than a NB that took that crappy morph. They can also only go invisible for 2.9 seconds with passives and that is if they don't have any dots on them, are not within a mile of a keep mage or mender, are not in combat with someone and don't have any dots ticking on anyone.

    You must have extremely limited knowledge of other classes and how this game works. The whole getting sniped from range crap is not a NB thing it is a bow thing and a total of 0 nightblade skills are used in that. The main difference is that a DK or Sorc doing it would have even more weapon power and the sorc could guarantee that you will die at the end of it when a Nightblade has to hope you do. And if you don't they can't go back in to stealth. Even if they go invisible that is 2.9 seconds and usually much less in reality.

    How exactly is a Nightblade using Venom arrow - light attack - poison arrow any different than a DK, or Sorc doing it other than having less weapon power. A templar can do it just as effectively also. The main difference is the other classes can live if you don't die where a nightblade has little chance.
  • Valije
    Valije
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    Is there any way to ignore threads created by someone in particular?. I don't want to read the agenda of the same guy again and again...
    Edited by Valije on September 9, 2014 2:01PM
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    ...it has everything to do with a NB since it's the only class who can render itself invisible and it's the only one that's a pain in the arse @ doing so. A good nb can hide sneak & run away from you/play with you for hours before ending you: Everything to do with a NB.
    ...

    Nightblades can only do this against a bad player.
    One Detection + Spell Power Alchemy potion and the Nightblade drops like a fly.
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
    Lost girls find a way.
  • akray21
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    jrgray93 wrote: »
    butterfly442 wrote: »
    everyone else does it better....

    I don't recall a DK, Sorc, or Templar killing me inside 2 seconds in PVP, before I could even use break free. Their burst DPS is insane in PVP.

    Nope... I just get CC locked by a DK and don't get off a hit, same as one shot in my book.

    NBs are just asking for their broken ability to be fixed, that is all. Its like of DK green blood didn't work... There would be outcries.
  • OrangeTheCat
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    GrimMauKin wrote: »
    I like my Nightblade!

    I haven't played anything else though so don't know how they compare and I often feel seriously out gunned when watching other characters (particularly dealing group damage) but I think that if you learn to think and play in a sneaky sort of way they can be surprisingly effective.

    Yeah, me too. My "main" is a sorc, but when I want to have fun, I get on my NB "alt". Sorcs are boring.
  • Aeratus
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    kitsinni wrote: »
    The whole getting sniped from range crap is not a NB thing it is a bow thing and a total of 0 nightblade skills are used in that. The main difference is that a DK or Sorc doing it would have even more weapon power and the sorc could guarantee that you will die at the end of it when a Nightblade has to hope you do. And if you don't they can't go back in to stealth. Even if they go invisible that is 2.9 seconds and usually much less in reality.

    How exactly is a Nightblade using Venom arrow - light attack - poison arrow any different than a DK, or Sorc doing it other than having less weapon power. A templar can do it just as effectively also. The main difference is the other classes can live if you don't die where a nightblade has little chance.
    There is a difference, actually. NBs can get a crit attack against people using 7x impenetrable armor by using shadowy disguise, whereas sorcs can't.

    Also, a sorc that stacks into a stamina build will probably die just as fast as a stamina NB when engaged in sustained combat.
  • TehMagnus
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    CapuchinSeven wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »

    The only way they can one shot you is if you are a vampire/werewolf and they are running camouflaged hunter and it procs while you have no attributes in health. Even with 0 attributes in health you can't get health low enough for them to one shot you with any single attack without something else proccing or a follow up attack, its just impossible.

    Nope, knocked down to the floor with arrow plus poison arrow plus a couple of hits and you're done without even being able to react. Doesn't matter if it's 3 actual hits. As long as you're unable to even react I consider it a One Shot. There's also the Knock down + ult + impale =/impale combo that works very well.
    kitsinni wrote: »

    So you are saying that NB's have the highest DPS in trials? Did something change drastically in the last month or something?

    It has been this way for months, more or less since the last DK nerfs (especially the stacking banner one). Perhaps you just don't know how to play an effective trials NB? Only thing that can sometimes do more damage than a good NB is the crushing shock build for DKs that only works greatly on adds where Evil Hunter works. For everything else, a good NB will beat a good DK dps wise.

    How exactly is 3 actual hits a one shot? Take your scenario with oc stamina and weapon damage and do the calculations. Even that wouldn't one shot your without follow up attacks even if all three crit and we call all three a "one shot" unless you have very low health. Also you can react it takes like a second to break stun and hold block.

    High end averages 1700 Lethal Arrow if it crits (extremely rare and way on the high side), 500 light attack and 500 poison arrow. That is 2800 health with everything critting, everything hitting at the highest amount, basically no armor mitigation and nothing being dodged. In reality you are talking about someone with no attributes in health, no health equipment, and no food to one shot them without something extra hitting. Even with those extremely high averages and everything critting you don't find many people in PvP with less than 2800 health.

    Add in camouflaged hunter + the proc you might get it though.

    As far as PvE maybe NB's have passed up sorc and DK for stuff that isn't group pulls I quit doing PvE a couple months ago so I really should not argue it.

    All I know is what I see on my end. I don't need fancy calculations.

    Getting killed before I can even react or press a key (That key being Reflective scales) by a NB archer is quite common and it is One shot since it's impossible to react. Doesn't matter if you get 100 attacks in, as long as they're done in 1 sec and you can't react to them it's just like a One Shot. Same goes with burst attacks.

    I got all attributes to health and Epic VR5 Sweetrolls so no Health issues. NBs are just broken OP when attacking from stealth when you play them right. And they're a pain in the arse when they play sneaky on 1v1.

    If you have all attributes to health and 257 health from food there is no way they are killing you in one second unless you are a vamp/werewolf and they get a lucky crit. The calculations are pretty basic nothing fancy just pretty much elementary school math. Even with no sets, class, emp alliance or any other bonus you are already out of one shot territory with that much health even if you have no impenetrable and they crit every time.

    Here is the real question when they don't burst you down and you do hit reflective scales and green dragon blood do they ever kill you still 1v1?

    No because archers are cr**, no matter what class plays them, don't even get me started, I hate them, especially the ones that will try to kill you, fail, hide, wait for 5 -10 min, then try again. I'm not saying either that all NBs always one shot me, but it's the only class with the capacity to do so.

    Hybrid Nbs using DW that know what they are doing are quite good in 1v1 in my opinion, have had some interesting fights with some of them I didn't think I'd loose where I got my arse handed to me.

    I've had the chance to fight vs very good NBs and Sorcs in PVP (Wabbajack EU) and the skill difference could be measured in light years when you compare them to most of the people playing this game and claiming their class suxs and needs buffs.

    I'm really confused. First you say they can "sneak for ever while walking extreme speeds" yet neither of those have anything to do with nightblade no one can sneak for ever but medium armor helps and the speed is about vampire and sets. Then you say they are "too op" but later say they are no problem and suck except for one build with DW, but earlier it was Magicka builds that just spammed two skills. Follow that up with they can always one shot you, which turned out to be 5 shots but they usually can't one shot you. I am having a hard time following.

    They can sneak for ever while walking extreme speeds and yes it has everything to do with a NB since it's the only class who can render itself invisible and it's the only one that's a pain in the arse @ doing so. A good nb can hide sneak & run away from you/play with you for hours before ending you: Everything to do with a NB.

    I say they are no problem because most of the people playing them play them wrong (and come here and complain about the class being broken). And yeah, those who play them right, don't need much more than 2 or 3 skills which proves people really have simple L2P issues.

    Killing you before you have time to react is a one shot and they are the only ones who can do it. You can take it literally and yell " NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN we are not op, it's not 1 shot, it's impossible, we just 4 shot you in 1s without you being able to react, it's NOT the same" (hint: it is).

    Bottom line is: "Plays as you want" != be awesome with any snip build.

    ...no, again for you.

    Everything you've listed has nothing do with Nightblades, the set bonus you keep raging about is for *hidden* which everyone can do, not for Nightblade *cloak*.

    Yet I only see NBs playing like this ;)
  • kitsinni
    kitsinni
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    Aeratus wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »
    The whole getting sniped from range crap is not a NB thing it is a bow thing and a total of 0 nightblade skills are used in that. The main difference is that a DK or Sorc doing it would have even more weapon power and the sorc could guarantee that you will die at the end of it when a Nightblade has to hope you do. And if you don't they can't go back in to stealth. Even if they go invisible that is 2.9 seconds and usually much less in reality.

    How exactly is a Nightblade using Venom arrow - light attack - poison arrow any different than a DK, or Sorc doing it other than having less weapon power. A templar can do it just as effectively also. The main difference is the other classes can live if you don't die where a nightblade has little chance.
    There is a difference, actually. NBs can get a crit attack against people using 7x impenetrable armor by using shadowy disguise, whereas sorcs can't.

    Also, a sorc that stacks into a stamina build will probably die just as fast as a stamina NB when engaged in sustained combat.

    You are supposed to be able to always crit from Stealth, regardless of class, even though there are quite a few times that even as a Nightblade I do not. I don't think your out of stealth attack takes your crit rating in to account but I don't know how to prove it. Even with 67% weapon crit I can count on one hand the amount of times I crit in a night in PvP when not attacking from stealth. Also anyone can stack high crit it isn't nightblade specific, nightblades might have a slight edge but that is irrelevant since no matter how high you get it you still can't get high enough to ever crit.
  • GwaynLoki
    GwaynLoki
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    kitsinni wrote: »

    You are supposed to be able to always crit from Stealth

    Stealth attacks don't crit.
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    Aeratus wrote: »
    ...
    Also, a sorc that stacks into a stamina build will probably die just as fast as a stamina NB when engaged in sustained combat.

    On a Stamina build a Sorcerer opting for 2-Handed will have guaranteed heals from Critical Rush scaling in effectiveness with Stamina and Weapon Damage.

    Nightblade will have Strife for self heals doing less than half of the HoT ticks that a Magickablade would be receiving.

    On a Stamina build, neither class has highly reliable healing; however, at least Sorcerer gets a heal that synergizes with the build.
    kitsinni wrote: »
    ...
    You are supposed to be able to always crit from Stealth, regardless of class, even though there are quite a few times that even as a Nightblade I do not. I don't think your out of stealth attack takes your crit rating in to account but I don't know how to prove it. Even with 67% weapon crit I can count on one hand the amount of times I crit in a night in PvP when not attacking from stealth. ...

    Attacking from behind from Sneak always crits for me; if I accidentally attack from the frontal cone area then it does not crit because it does not receive the bonus.
    Sneak attacks crit regardless of player crit rate.

    By contrast, Shadowy Disguise adds 100% crit rate to whatever the Nightblade has for crit rating; so buffed you would have 167%.

    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
    Lost girls find a way.
  • aco5712
    aco5712
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    NBs are very good with burst from stealth. I have gotten up to a 4k burst in pvp. Pve wise they are crazy good too, siphon + sap + evil hunter and you can get huge dps. I have gotten to the 1.5k mark in full heavy with a shield and sword at tower grind rifts. The only problem with nightblade is the survival. We have little to protect ourselves with and no extreme self heal limits our options to be viable tanks without a pocket healer but hey, that's not what we are made for
    Banned for Naming and Shaming exploiters. Great ideology ZOS.
    #FreeLeo

    Main: Vir Cor | Dragonknight
    Alt: Leo Cor | Nightblade
    Alt: Leonidas Cor | Templar

    Guild: K-Hole
    Youtube: CorESO
    DK PvP Tank/DPS Hybrid Build (2.1+): Cor Leonis
  • kitsinni
    kitsinni
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    Aeratus wrote: »
    ...
    Also, a sorc that stacks into a stamina build will probably die just as fast as a stamina NB when engaged in sustained combat.

    On a Stamina build a Sorcerer opting for 2-Handed will have guaranteed heals from Critical Rush scaling in effectiveness with Stamina and Weapon Damage.

    Nightblade will have Strife for self heals doing less than half of the HoT ticks that a Magickablade would be receiving.

    On a Stamina build, neither class has highly reliable healing; however, at least Sorcerer gets a heal that synergizes with the build.
    kitsinni wrote: »
    ...
    You are supposed to be able to always crit from Stealth, regardless of class, even though there are quite a few times that even as a Nightblade I do not. I don't think your out of stealth attack takes your crit rating in to account but I don't know how to prove it. Even with 67% weapon crit I can count on one hand the amount of times I crit in a night in PvP when not attacking from stealth. ...

    Attacking from behind from Sneak always crits for me; if I accidentally attack from the frontal cone area then it does not crit because it does not receive the bonus.
    Sneak attacks crit regardless of player crit rate.

    By contrast, Shadowy Disguise adds 100% crit rate to whatever the Nightblade has for crit rating; so buffed you would have 167%.

    From the testing I have seen Impenetrable still reduces the rate of crit from behind in sneak. With Shadowy Disguise I think I crit every time, at least I do enough to notice ever not critting. There are a lot of times I just don't even bother trying to go in to stealth and just hit Shadowy Disguise then poison arrow. I can never get Shadowy Disguise to hold long enough to get a snipe off even though the cast time is less than the duration. With camouflaged hunter + shadowy disguise + poison arrow I have a better shot at bursting than get in to sneak, hope one of the thousand things don't pull me out and wait the full 2 seconds to snipe and hope they don't run out of range during the travel time of the arrow.

    I don't know the numbers for a fact but my guess is that Sneak from behind puts you at 100% crit rating. So if someone stacks all impenetrable you still have a chance to miss that crit. Shadowy Disguise just adds 100% to whatever you have so I would get 167% crit.

    Now if I could actually get Shadowy Disguise to keep me in stealth for the 2.9 seconds advertised I could actually get something done. I also run Efficient Purge and even after using a purge there are a lot of times is still last less than a second.
  • Luvsfuzzybunnies
    Luvsfuzzybunnies
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    They can one shots you, sneak for ever while walking extreme speeds and they only require 2 or 3 spammable skills for magicka ones to be effective. They also have the highest DPS in Trials. Two words to describe them: Too op.

    Following the logic of people asking for DK nerfs, NBs also need nerf.

    I don't think you understand logic. Or understand how damage it works it seem either because sneaking at horde speed does not equate to damage. The utility is there sure but that is hardly them rolling their faces on their keyboards and killing you like a DK does.
    Jukette VR12 DC Nightblade 14 day campaign.
    Kitten Kisser VR12 DC Sorcerer 14 day campaign
  • Luvsfuzzybunnies
    Luvsfuzzybunnies
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »

    The only way they can one shot you is if you are a vampire/werewolf and they are running camouflaged hunter and it procs while you have no attributes in health. Even with 0 attributes in health you can't get health low enough for them to one shot you with any single attack without something else proccing or a follow up attack, its just impossible.

    Nope, knocked down to the floor with arrow plus poison arrow plus a couple of hits and you're done without even being able to react. Doesn't matter if it's 3 actual hits. As long as you're unable to even react I consider it a One Shot. There's also the Knock down + ult + impale =/impale combo that works very well.


    Except a bow knockdown is easily broken out of. So if you can't break out they were opportunist and got you when you were out of resources alreasy so probably low health and one shot able. Or you couldn't be bothered to break it even though you had the stam and that isn't the nb fault. Now compare this to an invasion charge and talons unbreakable cc and tell me again how the nb can one shot and the DK cant. Cause as far as what I've seen once you do get up from that dk unbreakable combo they do it immediately again if you aren't spamming roll dodge to at least try to get away and that depletes stamina the resources bow Nightblades rely heavily on to damage and get away/break cc. So tell me again how being hit by a bow kills you in 1 shot and I will have a legitimate reason to tell you to L2p.

    Jukette VR12 DC Nightblade 14 day campaign.
    Kitten Kisser VR12 DC Sorcerer 14 day campaign
  • TehMagnus
    TehMagnus
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    Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    They can one shots you, sneak for ever while walking extreme speeds and they only require 2 or 3 spammable skills for magicka ones to be effective. They also have the highest DPS in Trials. Two words to describe them: Too op.

    Following the logic of people asking for DK nerfs, NBs also need nerf.

    I don't think you understand logic. Or understand how damage it works it seem either because sneaking at horde speed does not equate to damage. The utility is there sure but that is hardly them rolling their faces on their keyboards and killing you like a DK does.

    DK has been nerfed to the underground so as cute as your comparison is, it's no longer true.

    Although I do suppose that people asking for NB buffs would like to play rolling their faces on their keyboards instead of playing smart.

    I don't think you actually understand what a NB is supposed to be good at aka burst damage, 1V1, sneaking, assassination.

    Currently the class has all of that so if you don't like the play-stile: reroll a DK and try rolling your face on your keyboard to see how that works for you.

    I've seen many extremely good NBs in PVP that are absolutely OP with their playing style because they are playing as they should, & not "playing as they want".

    Edited by TehMagnus on September 10, 2014 12:37PM
  • morvegil
    morvegil
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    NB doesnt do anything better then the other 3 classes do...
    Lo'ke
    Nord Vampire
    Nightblade
    Shield+BOW

    Daggerfall Covenant
    Bandit King
    Bridge Bandits Guild
  • morvegil
    morvegil
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    ALl i know, is the Dark Brotherhood and thieves guild *** better have some badass synergies for us.
    Lo'ke
    Nord Vampire
    Nightblade
    Shield+BOW

    Daggerfall Covenant
    Bandit King
    Bridge Bandits Guild
  • kitsinni
    kitsinni
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    They can one shots you, sneak for ever while walking extreme speeds and they only require 2 or 3 spammable skills for magicka ones to be effective. They also have the highest DPS in Trials. Two words to describe them: Too op.

    Following the logic of people asking for DK nerfs, NBs also need nerf.

    I don't think you understand logic. Or understand how damage it works it seem either because sneaking at horde speed does not equate to damage. The utility is there sure but that is hardly them rolling their faces on their keyboards and killing you like a DK does.

    DK has been nerfed to the underground so as cute as your comparison is, it's no longer true.

    Although I do suppose that people asking for NB buffs would like to play rolling their faces on their keyboards instead of playing smart.

    I don't think you actually understand what a NB is supposed to be good at aka burst damage, 1V1, sneaking, assassination.

    Currently the class has all of that so if you don't like the play-stile: reroll a DK and try rolling your face on your keyboard to see how that works for you.

    I've seen many extremely good NBs in PVP that are absolutely OP with their playing style because they are playing as they should, & not "playing as they want".

    DK has been nerfed in to still being by far the strongest class in the game. If you are having trouble as a DK then you are not going to be able to play as any class.

    DK is 98% as good as the NB in 1v1, sneaking, assassination style play. Probably 200% as good in 1v1 without sneaking in open combat. The only real benefits a NB gets are either bugged or made irrelevant with a single armor trait.

    Extremely good any class is OP with their playing style.
  • yiasemi
    yiasemi
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    NB is great, I will be a doctor when you are collecting garbage. Teacher told me.
  • Aeratus
    Aeratus
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    kitsinni wrote: »
    DK has been nerfed in to still being by far the strongest class in the game. If you are having trouble as a DK then you are not going to be able to play as any class.

    DK is 98% as good as the NB in 1v1, sneaking, assassination style play. Probably 200% as good in 1v1 without sneaking in open combat. The only real benefits a NB gets are either bugged or made irrelevant with a single armor trait.

    Extremely good any class is OP with their playing style.
    The only reason why DKs are good in 1v1 open combat is because a lot of DKs build for survivability, which is key in 1v1. Any NB can put on sword and shield, use 1v1 skills like double shades, and potion cooldown enchants to let you drink tripots every 15 seconds.

    DK being 200% as good as NB isn't remotely plausible.
    Edited by Aeratus on September 10, 2014 3:29PM
  • TheBull
    TheBull
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    0 defensive cooldowns ZERO in a world of shields and spammable self heals...

    Also NBs have ZERO AoE. In a Cyrodiil world of keep raids.
    Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
    Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
    Twitch - SunshineNB
    Youtube - The Redguard
  • Aeratus
    Aeratus
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    TheBull wrote: »
    0 defensive cooldowns ZERO in a world of shields and spammable self heals...

    Also NBs have ZERO AoE. In a Cyrodiil world of keep raids.
    Sorry, but learn to play.
  • TheBull
    TheBull
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    ✭
    Aeratus wrote: »
    TheBull wrote: »
    0 defensive cooldowns ZERO in a world of shields and spammable self heals...

    Also NBs have ZERO AoE. In a Cyrodiil world of keep raids.
    Sorry, but learn to play.
    sarcasm?
    Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
    Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
    Twitch - SunshineNB
    Youtube - The Redguard
  • kitsinni
    kitsinni
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    Aeratus wrote: »
    kitsinni wrote: »
    DK has been nerfed in to still being by far the strongest class in the game. If you are having trouble as a DK then you are not going to be able to play as any class.

    DK is 98% as good as the NB in 1v1, sneaking, assassination style play. Probably 200% as good in 1v1 without sneaking in open combat. The only real benefits a NB gets are either bugged or made irrelevant with a single armor trait.

    Extremely good any class is OP with their playing style.
    The only reason why DKs are good in 1v1 open combat is because a lot of DKs build for survivability, which is key in 1v1. Any NB can put on sword and shield, use 1v1 skills like double shades, and potion cooldown enchants to let you drink tripots every 15 seconds.

    DK being 200% as good as NB isn't remotely plausible.

    Even with a Sword and Shield I doubt a NB would last long enough in open field vs. a DK to even use more than one tripot, and the NB passive buffs the effectiveness of it not the speed they can use it at that is alchemy the DK could also have. Of course that depends on the skill levels of the DK and NB. If both have equal skill the DK should wipe the floor with them. NB has almost no attacks that can really do anything to the DK if the DK really knows their class. Shades only make the damage reduction equal to what DK's get from blocking through passives already and barely do any damage, a good DK will shrug off the amount of stamina loss from blocking them. They can block through fear, they can block through crippling grasp, they will already block for more damage, they can reflect back strife, they can make surprise attack almost do no damage, they can stop them from moving with talons and they can shield charge if they do happen to get out of range. With whip and the regen they get using ultimates they have extreme sustain and healing. It should not even be a contest in open battle 1v1 given equal skill. Even if the NB throws down veild of blades the DK can step back and pull them out of it and lock them in place with talons.
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