Ryzium wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Where are you getting that Nightblades are the best sustained damage? Their damage output is not top of the charts. If you are using siphoning attacks you are lowering even more. Pretty much everyone that is magicka based already has a better option for sustain in the mages guild using Spell Symmetry and you get a reduced cost for your next spell for using it, you get extra magicka and recovery for it being on your bar and you get extra spell damage after use.

Siphoning gives you sustain damage in PvP where you can't spam spell sym consistently. And gives you stam back to roll dodge and block. You don't do your damage with it on you sustain with it on and burst without it.

I thought you were rolling with groups that had a resto staff there is no reason you can't use it in PvP if you have a healer. If you are solo by the time you need that sustain it is to late unless you happen to be against another Nightblade. A templar can just shield up and heal themselves till the cows come home, a DK can put up scales and green dragon blood and have amazing sustain by spamming the cheapest ultimate in game and Sorc have options out the wazoo and can easily just bolt out if there is any chance they will lose.

Ryzium wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

What I don't understand is why all the other classes are so darn good at sneaking.

Honestly nobody will be happy until all the classes are exactly the same with abilities that just have different names and do the exact same thing. It's getting close to that now anyway.

• NBs should be the only ones to sneak but be kinda squishy
• DKs should be the only ones to block insane amounts of damage with their shield, but have no AoEs and hit just "ok"
• Sorcs should have high damage rates but be ultra squishy
• And Temps should be great healers, ok at taking damage, and terrible at dishing out damage.

But the strategy right now is to make every class good at everything.

TESO is not and should not be a freaking standard constrained class mmo.

The "Play as you want" idea was that your class will not influence your role. This was every TES fan main concern when they introduced classess and they promised that in the end class will not be as constraining as in standard MMOs. This is what the devs should strive for. The problem is not that everybody can do everything, the problem is that they can't. There are no competitive DK healers for example or other class than Templars for that matter. There are also no truly effective stealth Temps and Dks either. There is no truly effective resilient NB for group pvp engagements even if in pve we can be great tanks.The list of things that can't be done is pretty long unfortunately.

listen to what you are saying. No, every class cannot be the best at something. When one class is best others can't be as good. It defeats the purpose. If you wanted to be the best healer you would have been a temp. If you wanted to get the best stealth damage you went sorc or NB. If you wanted to be the best tanking you would be a DK and if you wanted the best sustained DPS you would vbe a NB. I have never said that NBs are the best healers or that they have good heals or defense. I said they are viable and can be extremely effective in PvP. Every class can heal, every class can DPS every class can tank every class can do good DPS from stealth. All that mattere is if you can change your build enough to make your play style work.

A class could be best but all should be effective and competitive at all roles.This is what they promised. For PvE this is true for the most part.
A NB can be very resilient against large groups with a Shield and a combo of light/heavy due to the synergy of Sap Essence,Siphoning attacks and Veil Of Blades. Those are the skills that were designed to give the NB the ability to be an overt tank vs groups. Every class has some skills that are meant for that role.
The thing is that these skils while very effective in pve are very ineffective in pvp compared to what a DK or Templar or even Sorc has. Take for example DK, what are its group tank skills, Spiked armor, Talons,Inhale,Reflective Scales,Ash Cloud,Obsidian Sheld,Dragon Blood all effective in PVP. Templars have their own arsenal of toys for that role.


Nightblades should also be able to be healer and we have quite a few in class heals and even 2 Ultimate morphs . The problem is that they are terrible compared to Temp heals for the most part. I did however run vet dungeons with a NB healer more then once and it worked however nobody will probably take a NB heal for a trial. The healing capability of non temps should be increased to be a bit closer to them even though not necessarily as good, even DKs.

R0M2K wrote: »

Id like to know why Concealed/Surprise Attacks stuns fron invis in PvE but not in PvP.

It does

R0M2K wrote: »

Id like to know why Concealed/Surprise Attacks stuns fron invis in PvE but not in PvP.

It does if from behind but it takes less than a second for them to break it so it is almost irrelevant. If you are solo and it is against anything but a nightblade and you can't burst them down before they break it you are pretty much done unless they are just not good. Green Dragon Blood, Blazing Shield or Bolt Escape all make it so you can't kill them in a one on one situation unless they are just bad players.

@kitsinni‌, yes you will have a 'harder time' tanking as a nightblade due to the reasons we both stated. Nightblades in a tank or heals role do have different (and riskier) playstyles. Group cc isn't everything, the DK tank I have completed all my endgame content with uses talons, to be sure, but it's more for the damage and synergy than for the controll. The only real time he's used it to strictly controll a group is during the new death challenge in BC. He relies on threat to gain and maintain agro, something a Nightblade can do very effectively. Besides, using drain power and it's morphs will give you a veil at the beginning and end of a mob pull (at the least), which is all the cc, defense, and threat you really need.

Nightblades have been top in trials for a while. You can have amazing dps, which also heals the group, and it builds ult rediculously fast. I can get 3-5 veils down on a boss without even trying. Not to mention on the mobs... also, the trials record is/was held by a group running 8 nightblades. The only reason that they said that they didn't have nightblade tanks is because DKs pull better.

@Shunravi isn't having a "harder time" the same thing as saying less powerful? It is basically arguing semantics at this point. I'm not trying to say the suck, NB is my main character and my preference. I just think in most circumstances they will be "less powerful" or have a "harder time" than the other choices.

I quit doing PvE so I really am not up on trials anymore. I know they were always really strong in group pulls but I'm surprised we are passing DK's and Sorcs for single target DPS. If so that is great for NB's maybe I should do some PvE again.

Who cares how effective we are at trials damage? Last I checked that was PvE. Or are players now substituting the mobs in some special PvP version of the trials?

In my opinion the best current PvP gank style NB setup is either with all Magicka/Light Armor/Resto staff with Night's Silence and vamp using Concealed Weapons/Ambush/Impale for burst and cloak to get away , or Stam/Weapon Damage/Medium/Bow using Lethal Arrow/Poison Arrow/Piercing Mark/Camouflaged Hunter/Flawless Dawnbreaker and Shadowy Disguise to get away.

The issue with set one is to really utilize the setup you need to get in position and after 1.4 that is going to be extremely hard, it will also be really hard to get a kill and get away after the Night's Silence nerf.

The issue with set two is if you don't kill on the initial burst the poison ticks are going to keep you from being able to go back in to stealth so you either kill or die.

I laugh at anybody who says NBs are not effective during PVP in Cyrodiil. My DK is killed by NBs more than any other class bar none. If a player knows the class and weapon skills, then NB might be the best class for PVP. Oh wait, that's Sorcerors. NBs are a solid second, though.

LonePirate wrote: »

I laugh at anybody who says NBs are not effective during PVP in Cyrodiil. My DK is killed by NBs more than any other class bar none. If a player knows the class and weapon skills, then NB might be the best class for PVP. Oh wait, that's Sorcerors. NBs are a solid second, though.

I wreck your DK block with my shades and fear!

Really, it comes down to adapting to what you are currently using. Templars too... With that blazing shield up, I just stand back and kite with my bow (or destro staff...) It's fun :P

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Beldorrub17_ESO wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

[..]Also, get the efficient purge skill. Use that instead of dark cloak to get rid of DOT effects and the black bubble that you incur during sieges. When you have efficient purge, you won't need the Dark Cloak's effect unless you're strictly a stealth player. So you can respec to Shadowy Disguise. [..]

It's not even close to a replacement ability. Dark Cloak is a purge. It's also 3 seconds of rest to allow health funnel ticks, ally heals,maybe that target that was marked is dead and you get your big heal. Its an interrupt, any crystal shards casting or lethal arrows stop casting because you are no longer targetable. Its an evasion, when it does work my character jukes around from all the missed projectiles. It also breaks tab targeting which stops someone from focusing you. All of this while you can be moving position or charge your heavy attack.

Well apparently dark cloak works differently for you than everyone else. That's certainly how it works on paper, the reality for the rest of us is quite different, however.

Also, purge is infinitely better, since it removes negative effects. Dark Cloak only removes DoTs.

I stated when it does work. If your in the middle of an brawl, using crippling grasp, any other dots (poison arrow, entropy, searing rune etc), near someone with magelight or getting streaked through over and over; its not going to provide much of any benefit. As many said, it is broken, I listed all the benefits it does have when it works which makes it better than purge.

When I'm running bow, I focus and kill one target. This removes my dots from the field and I don't attack/dot anyone else because it will keep you from being able to stealth. Once your target is dead dark cloak works fine. I almost always use it while my eye is closing as I reenter sneak to prevent any surprise attacks while visible.

I only use purge to remove any enemy NB marks on my character preventing my get away. Otherwise its dark cloak all the way.

jrgray93 wrote: »

When I encounter NBs, 99% of the time, they either kill me in the first five or so seconds or they can't beat me.

Soft cap armor with jewelry and carry detection potions. I carry 100, if i'm below 100 I craft up to 200 and keep them on me. Its a very cheap potion and 9 out of 10 potions used get me a kill.

If marked dodge roll, hold block then purge the lethal arrow/heavy attack/venom arrow is coming. Hold block a little be longer while they try to kill you can get back into stealth. Then start the counter attack, they can't get back into sneak.

If not marked and hit with the lethal arrow, break the stun immediately and hold block. heal/shield then start the counter attack.

This is what happens if you are in light armor and spell power rings: (GIF)

GwaynLoki wrote: »

Ryzium wrote: »

3. This is not my build, this was thrown together quickly.

Guess there's no point in going into more detailed criticism then.

Ryzium wrote: »

This is not my PvP build with my NB, I will post that if you want it.

Please do, I'd be very interested if it is a solo-centered sustained build that doesn't completely rely on burst-dmg like the Ambush or Snipe ones that are running rampant currently.

BUILD LINK

Here is the build I use for solo PvP

My build focuses tanking the burst from enemies and following that up with heavy damage so that they cannot counter as easily.

I use 7 light for the cost reduction and the regen. Here are my sets

Warlock (5) Head Chest Rings Amulet (enchant jewlery with 1 spell power, 1 armor and 1 fire resist)
Magnus (5) Legs Gloves Waist Boots Epaults (small pieces impen, legs infused)
Torugs Pact (2) Sword/Shield (shield impen)

49 points in health

Enchant gear to get around:
2.2-2.4k magicka
1.6-1.8k stamina
2.8-3.2k health

Sword - sharpened with reduce armor glyph
Resto staff - defending with life steal enchant

How the build works: Stay on S/S as much as possible to mitigate damage, hot swap to resto staff to reapply dots, counter ultimates, ward ally for quick defense and to keep shades up.

After you tank their damage and get them lower on resources use a quick invasion if you have the space or a fear if they are on top of you, after the gap is closed you can hit them with ransack and then spam surprise attack until they get down or you see you cant get the kill them go back to your defensive style until you get another chance. OVER EXTENDING KILLS YOU If you ever get low on resources pop siphoning attacks and do light attacks to get back some resources. the fear + invasion combo is good to use when trying to get melee fighters off you and to lower their guard to hit a stun or dps them.

I know about the ability to block the fear that NBs cast, it is not supposed to work. if you are blocking while the ability is activated you can hold block the entire duration of the fear.

Feel free to comment on how to make this better or any question you have.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

I laugh at anybody who says NBs are not effective during PVP in Cyrodiil. My DK is killed by NBs more than any other class bar none. If a player knows the class and weapon skills, then NB might be the best class for PVP. Oh wait, that's Sorcerors. NBs are a solid second, though.

honestly, that's a l2play issue for you if you are getting beat by NBs with anything other than stealth bow attacks and the like.

There's zero reason a DK should ever go down in a fight versus a NB unless that NB is incredible and the DK is sub par.

I thought it was assumed the NBs were stealthed since they are easy targets when not stealthed. Most of the NBs in my journeys introduce themselves via stealth. I seldom encounter them otherwise. Maybe you play in an area where NBs roam the landscape openly and free of care. I know I sure don't.

Any NB not stealthed is an idiot or is a victim of circumstances beyond their control.

Ryzium wrote: »

GwaynLoki wrote: »

Ryzium wrote: »

3. This is not my build, this was thrown together quickly.

Guess there's no point in going into more detailed criticism then.

Ryzium wrote: »

This is not my PvP build with my NB, I will post that if you want it.

Please do, I'd be very interested if it is a solo-centered sustained build that doesn't completely rely on burst-dmg like the Ambush or Snipe ones that are running rampant currently.

BUILD LINK
...

Looks like a pretty fun build. It's definitely a small scale combat focus, although that appears to be what you intend anyways.

I thought it was assumed the NBs were stealthed since they are easy targets when not stealthed. Most of the NBs in my journeys introduce themselves via stealth. I seldom encounter them otherwise. Maybe you play in an area where NBs roam the landscape openly and free of care. I know I sure don't.

Any NB not stealthed is an idiot or is a victim of circumstances beyond their control.

I see NBs roaming around in combat in large zerg fights all the time. So I don't know why you're not spotting NBs in open combat.