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Bolt Escape cost increase is broken
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let's set this straight. A NB with concealed weapon slotted will move 25% faster than normal running speed while the cloak is active(so hardly 'like the wind', even lightning form is faster that that). He will not get the benefit of speed bonuses such as night's silence, because those only work when he is sneaking(as opposed to invisible).
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Actually, Shadow Cloak with Concealed Weapon ends up being around 113% of running speed, according to RavSpeed add on.
Shadow Cloak draws weapons each time it is cast; running with weapons drawn has a travel rate at less than 100% of regular running speed (weapons drawn = traveling at 90% regular running speed).
If you don't sheathe weapons after casting the cloak, that's correct (0.9*1.25=1.125)0 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let's set this straight. A NB with concealed weapon slotted will move 25% faster than normal running speed while the cloak is active(so hardly 'like the wind', even lightning form is faster that that). He will not get the benefit of speed bonuses such as night's silence, because those only work when he is sneaking(as opposed to invisible).
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Actually, Shadow Cloak with Concealed Weapon ends up being around 113% of running speed, according to RavSpeed add on.
Shadow Cloak draws weapons each time it is cast; running with weapons drawn has a travel rate at less than 100% of regular running speed (weapons drawn = traveling at 90% regular running speed).
yea so if the person you are fighting stands stock still and doesn't even breath you might stay in shadow cloak and get that boost (I've never felt it but whatever) for 2.8 seconds.
LIKE THE WIND!Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.2 -
Ryzium✭✭✭Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »Then the thread got derailed somewhere causeLuvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »DenverRalphy wrote: »DenverRalphy wrote: »BE should cost more if you ask me. The current cost certainly isn't restricting or slowing down it's use at all...shrug.
So are you saying that the abilities that keep the other classes alive in combat in PvP should be given a 50% increase in cost or more following subsequent uses i.e. blaze shield reflective scale or shadow cloak?
Tell you what. If shadow cloak makes me invisible for 2.9 seconds every time with 100% reliability, and no potion or magelight will be able to cancel the effect(just like BE does work everytime) then i will gladly take a 50% cost increase when casting it again within 4 seconds.
Potions work against BE too. Unstoppable negates CC effects.
If you use a potion against shadow cloak, you completely neutralize it's escape effect. If you use unstoppable against BE, it still moves the sorcerer, streak still does damage, BoL still absorbs projectiles. Not comparable in the slightest.
Excepting of course the removal of negative effects with shadow cloak. A potion's cooldown timer is exponentially longer than shadow cloak. Magelight can't counter cloak's ability to remove negative effects. And any NB with shadow cloak can run like the wind while shadow cloak is active, regardless whether they are visible or not.
hahahahahahaha
oh you must have never used the ability, that is the only thing to explain this confusion.
this thread has nothing to do with shadow cloak, everyone should know by now that it doesnt work all the time. there is no need to re state this over and over
Except when someone throws it in your face like it's all good and NBs can get away or remove dots when they cant. So yes it is relevant in this respect.
Edit: it is especially relevant when a sorc tries to justify bolt escape by bringing up cloak and say nightblades have an ability that is just as powerful becausearch they dont. To put I in a way most should understand it would be like krillin fighting super saiyan 4 goku. Those are the power level of differences. With GDB and blazing sheild coming in at super saipan level 3.
No one threw anything in NDs faces this thread is only for me to know if BE was miscalculating or since it wasnt, how does it calculate the increase in cost. if this was the lets compare cloak and bolt thread it would have been labeled accordingly
I don't know if you can't read your original quote in these massive amounts but let me show you where you turned it into a debate of cloak and bolt escape by saying a potion will negate bolt escape. Or can you scroll up and read it yourself? I'll let you try first if you still can't I will only quote the part where you said it.
Since I didnt say that and another person did does that mean you are mistaken in point this anger at me the OP or what? all i said was that this thread was not supposed to be about the comparison between BE and cloakRyzium__________________Alliance: Aldmeri Dominion- V12 Sorc - Clodel
- V2 Tempalr - Game Matrix
- V1 Nightblade - Soul Rend
- 26 DK - Ryzium
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Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Aett_Thorn wrote: »Not necessarily that complicated, but close. The game might just say that the 50% penalty is calculated before reductions, and added after all reductions. Such that a 400 magicka cost base with 50% reduction would mean that the first cast is 200. The second cast is 400 * 0.5 + 400/2
He was actually 100% correct in his analysis although not as clear as he could be.
All reduction/increase abilities are additive and are calculated after cost reduction enchants.
If you have 3 Legendary -20 magicka cost enchants those are always calculated first in figuring the base cost of a spell. After that *all* reduction/penalty percentage calculations are *added* and multiplied to that reduced base cost.
This is exactly how the Bolt Escape Penalty works and coincidentally it is exactly how the Crystal Fragments proc works.
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube1 -
JoffyToffy69✭✭✭✭I think most of the DK's abilities are OP with scale reflect and sooo much health regen, but I don't see anyone screaming for nerfs as much as they do for sorcs.
Sorcs deal alot of dps, yea, but they can be dropped rather quickly...
*Sorry for joining in the off topic debate. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in
Fun comes from diversity, balance kills diversity.
Former Empress Serabii3 -
wllstrt75b14_ESO✭✭✭I would have no problem with BE if all it did was escape....the stun plus damage plus negate cc is way to much for one skill and has created a skill that goes far beyond its intended purpose of being an escape skill.
The skill is more used in combat now to generate ultimate quickly, cc players inorder for the zerg to ring spam to death. chase down fleeing players so the zerg can catch up to, avoid certain death(intended purpose),, need I go on? I have seen sorcerers use it to bypass gap guards at openings in the keep in order to infiltrate sieged keeps. The list continues...as you can see it is much more then an escape skill.
anyone that tries to state this skill is not OP is totally living outside of reality and logic.
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JoffyToffy69✭✭✭✭I wouldn't mind if it was just an escape, like a teleport. But then its cost should dramatically drop, and no timer tooFun comes from diversity, balance kills diversity.
Former Empress Serabii0 -
Vatter✭✭✭✭✭The skill should have a reduced cost but have no damage or stun inflicted and no ultimate gained.
But this will never happen.
Thats why I re-rolled a sorc. its the most op class we have. great resource management, lots of devastating instant skills for me to macro cowboy to insane levels of dps and if things get hairy I just bolt stun out while regaining ultimate.
v6 and not a single death so far in the game. of course I haven't gone to cyrodiil yet.
zos is just reinforcing the dress/stick class and builds. Just re-roll to a sorc and save yourself the stress of broken skills, etc etc
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Ryzium✭✭✭wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »I would have no problem with BE if all it did was escape....the stun plus damage plus negate cc is way to much for one skill and has created a skill that goes far beyond its intended purpose of being an escape skill.
The skill is more used in combat now to generate ultimate quickly, cc players inorder for the zerg to ring spam to death. chase down fleeing players so the zerg can catch up to, avoid certain death(intended purpose),, need I go on? I have seen sorcerers use it to bypass gap guards at openings in the keep in order to infiltrate sieged keeps. The list continues...as you can see it is much more then an escape skill.
anyone that tries to state this skill is not OP is totally living outside of reality and logic.
The sorc class is built to be mobile from range and to cc people, so taking away or over nerfing the best mobility skill sorcs have is a class breaker. Just like ruining reflexive scale is a class breaker for DKs. It isnt about BE being OP it is a very effective multipurpose ability. it is one of the best abilities in the game. That doesnt mean NERF NERF NERF it means that some of the other abilities that other classes have should be buffed.Ryzium__________________Alliance: Aldmeri Dominion- V12 Sorc - Clodel
- V2 Tempalr - Game Matrix
- V1 Nightblade - Soul Rend
- 26 DK - Ryzium
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Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭How did a thread about the cost increase of bolt escape turn into a Nerf bolt escape thread?
Bolt escape streak morph is getting nerfed next patch.
Without bolt escape sorcs are sitting ducks. We don't have a non_invasion closer like Templar and we have no synergies with stamina builds anyways with the exception of critsurge. My bolt escape breaks from time to time and without it I die easily every time....free AP.
It is the only true survivability skill we have. Conjured Ward is just an extra meat shield, and once a melee class is on top of us they cut through us like a wet paper sack without BE.
Just because you don't know how to play your class to its fullest potential doesn't mean you should want to Nerf other classes and playstyles down to your level. I'm one of the highest ranked sorcs in the game with 60 days played almost exclusively in cryrodiil and I know members of EACH class that kill me all the time who coincidentally are also some of the highest ranked plsyers. There are counters and strategies to kill EVERY good player and build...that's what makes the game fun. Homogenizing every class to the same play styles will make the one fun thing left in this game boring.....the combat.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube8 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭BE should cost more if you ask me. The current cost certainly isn't restricting or slowing down it's use at all...shrug.
So are you saying that the abilities that keep the other classes alive in combat in PvP should be given a 50% increase in cost or more following subsequent uses i.e. blaze shield reflective scale or shadow cloak?
Blazing shield and reflective scales are a bit too spamable for how much reduction you take and damage they do in my opinion. Shadow cloak already doesn't work half the time and doesn't add anywhere near what the other three do in my opinion. Now if cloak also did damage to everyone to cloaked through and stunned them I would think it should be adjusted also.0 -
Ryzium✭✭✭BE should cost more if you ask me. The current cost certainly isn't restricting or slowing down it's use at all...shrug.
So are you saying that the abilities that keep the other classes alive in combat in PvP should be given a 50% increase in cost or more following subsequent uses i.e. blaze shield reflective scale or shadow cloak?
Blazing shield and reflective scales are a bit too spamable for how much reduction you take and damage they do in my opinion. Shadow cloak already doesn't work half the time and doesn't add anywhere near what the other three do in my opinion. Now if cloak also did damage to everyone to cloaked through and stunned them I would think it should be adjusted also.
Agreed and cloak costs less than the others though i think that blazing shield should have the same debuff BE has i think reflexive scale is alrightRyzium__________________Alliance: Aldmeri Dominion- V12 Sorc - Clodel
- V2 Tempalr - Game Matrix
- V1 Nightblade - Soul Rend
- 26 DK - Ryzium
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Vatter✭✭✭✭✭wonder what would happen to the player base if they put Bolt Escape as it is in the mages skill tree for everyone to use......
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wllstrt75b14_ESO✭✭✭wonder what would happen to the player base if they put Bolt Escape as it is in the mages skill tree for everyone to use......
probably every player would use it.
Like I said you want to be mobile? awesome no issues just not mobile and damage, and ulti generation with no AOE cap, and not stun....u want an escape ability have at it just not all the others...
NB stealth does not allow them to stun do damage and escape, it barley allows them to escape some of the time.
You cant ignore the ulti generation if with Aoe caps in place plus the damage aspect of it, and the stun.
i would have no issues with sorcerers being able to spam this over and over if it didnt do all of this crap as well.
Oh and it allows them to break out of cc's all day long forgot that one.0 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wait a minute... Streak can cost as little as 200 with light armor/seducer? No wonder it still gets spammed that is basically nothing. Wtf.
Imo, bolt escape shouldn't cc anyone or deal damage.... its an escape skill.0 -
JoffyToffy69✭✭✭✭ezareth_ESO wrote: »How did a thread about the cost increase of bolt escape turn into a Nerf bolt escape thread?
Bolt escape streak morph is getting nerfed next patch.
Without bolt escape sorcs are sitting ducks. We don't have a non_invasion closer like Templar and we have no synergies with stamina builds anyways with the exception of critsurge. My bolt escape breaks from time to time and without it I die easily every time....free AP.
It is the only true survivability skill we have. Conjured Ward is just an extra meat shield, and once a melee class is on top of us they cut through us like a wet paper sack without BE.
Just because you don't know how to play your class to its fullest potential doesn't mean you should want to Nerf other classes and playstyles down to your level. I'm one of the highest ranked sorcs in the game with 60 days played almost exclusively in cryrodiil and I know members of EACH class that kill me all the time who coincidentally are also some of the highest ranked plsyers. There are counters and strategies to kill EVERY good player and build...that's what makes the game fun. Homogenizing every class to the same play styles will make the one fun thing left in this game boring.....the combat.
The greatest thing I've seen in the forums in a while!
100% agree, people need to learn to play and alter their tactics. No baby hand holding and screaming for nerfs. Melee can easily drop sorcs once their in close.
Sorcs have very little when it comes to defense.
I find DKs are the OP class. So much health regen, easily overcharged armor, plenty of cc too.
So how do I combat a DK? Tactics! Watch what they do, pay attention to when they put on certain buffs etc, and get ready to hit just as the buff wears off. Instead of wasting magica doing no damage. This doesn't make my class OP, it just makes me a better playerFun comes from diversity, balance kills diversity.
Former Empress Serabii3 -
Ryzium✭✭✭Wait a minute... Streak can cost as little as 200 with light armor/seducer? No wonder it still gets spammed that is basically nothing. Wtf.
Imo, bolt escape shouldn't cc anyone or deal damage.... its an escape skill.
Terrible idea, in regular combat in PvP and duels I use streak to get a disorient to line up a frags proc for the stun it is a huge part of my build taking away a move that counter zergs is a good thing, the ult gain should be set to not go over a certain amount regardless of people hit but should still damage everyone it hits. AoE caps make zerging the only way to play PvP in groupsRyzium__________________Alliance: Aldmeri Dominion- V12 Sorc - Clodel
- V2 Tempalr - Game Matrix
- V1 Nightblade - Soul Rend
- 26 DK - Ryzium
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Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wait a minute... Streak can cost as little as 200 with light armor/seducer? No wonder it still gets spammed that is basically nothing. Wtf.
Imo, bolt escape shouldn't cc anyone or deal damage.... its an escape skill.
Terrible idea, in regular combat in PvP and duels I use streak to get a disorient to line up a frags proc for the stun it is a huge part of my build taking away a move that counter zergs is a good thing, the ult gain should be set to not go over a certain amount regardless of people hit but should still damage everyone it hits. AoE caps make zerging the only way to play PvP in groups
I'm sure you enjoy using Streak, its a very strong move.
Maybe they should add AE damage and an AE 2 second fear with unlimited targets that also generates ultimate to Shadow Cloak. Sounds balanced!
Edited by Stx on September 8, 2014 9:24AM2 -
NCML✭✭For those who say bolt escape should just be to escape, then maybe teleport strike should just be for teleport. The "bolt" in bolt escape is because the ability comes from the storm calling class and the ability does damage just like the NB teleport.1 -
Sarenia✭✭✭✭✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »I can't believe someone is complaining about this. It needs to be tripled cost wise or the movement needs to be halved.If you had bothered to read the OP, you would be aware that they weren't complaining. They were simply pointing out what they believe to be a mathematical error in the spell script, in an entirely neutral fashion.
More importantly -- I can't believe people are allowed to use the internet without basic reading comprehension.[beta_group_85b_9]2 -
Ryzium✭✭✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »I can't believe someone is complaining about this. It needs to be tripled cost wise or the movement needs to be halved.If you had bothered to read the OP, you would be aware that they weren't complaining. They were simply pointing out what they believe to be a mathematical error in the spell script, in an entirely neutral fashion.
More importantly -- I can't believe people are allowed to use the internet without basic reading comprehension.
Welcome to the ESO forums where NBs cry about an ability that has been broken since the game was out and haven't tried to make a build without using a broken move as the staple, sorcs complaining that the nerfs they have received haven't been fair even though they are reasonable. DKs just being DKs and not caring becausethier class works really well or templars who cry about not doing damage and needing to buff our defense even more to compensate. The forums just ooze intelligence.Ryzium__________________Alliance: Aldmeri Dominion- V12 Sorc - Clodel
- V2 Tempalr - Game Matrix
- V1 Nightblade - Soul Rend
- 26 DK - Ryzium
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Ryzium✭✭✭Wait a minute... Streak can cost as little as 200 with light armor/seducer? No wonder it still gets spammed that is basically nothing. Wtf.
Imo, bolt escape shouldn't cc anyone or deal damage.... its an escape skill.
Terrible idea, in regular combat in PvP and duels I use streak to get a disorient to line up a frags proc for the stun it is a huge part of my build taking away a move that counter zergs is a good thing, the ult gain should be set to not go over a certain amount regardless of people hit but should still damage everyone it hits. AoE caps make zerging the only way to play PvP in groups
I'm sure you enjoy using Streak, its a very strong move.
Maybe they should add AE damage and an AE 2 second fear with unlimited targets that also generates ultimate to Shadow Cloak. Sounds balanced!
Unlimited targets is gone. So that is a mut point now. I don't care if shadow cloak gets a buff and does aoe on activation. Great.Ryzium__________________Alliance: Aldmeri Dominion- V12 Sorc - Clodel
- V2 Tempalr - Game Matrix
- V1 Nightblade - Soul Rend
- 26 DK - Ryzium
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Mendoze✭✭✭I think ZOS uses a little weird system how they calculate these cost increases and reductions. They just sum all the values and then multiply it with the base cost. So if you have -50% reduction and +50% increase, that means 0% change.
So your first cast is with that -50% cost, and then next one is normal base cost. Not 100% sure about that, but that's how all their calculations seem to work.
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Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Wait a minute... Streak can cost as little as 200 with light armor/seducer? No wonder it still gets spammed that is basically nothing. Wtf.
Imo, bolt escape shouldn't cc anyone or deal damage.... its an escape skill.
The first can be that cheap. The second within 4 seconds will be more than twice that.
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »I can't believe someone is complaining about this. It needs to be tripled cost wise or the movement needs to be halved.If you had bothered to read the OP, you would be aware that they weren't complaining. They were simply pointing out what they believe to be a mathematical error in the spell script, in an entirely neutral fashion.
More importantly -- I can't believe people are allowed to use the internet without basic reading comprehension.
He's complaining that it's not working. When in fact it should be nerfed.
I can't believe... no, I'm not going to get warned. Nice try though.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.3 -
Mendoze✭✭✭Uhmm, I'm little lost here. Did you mean that he complained that the cost increase should be nerfed. Like the cost increase should be lower? I think he tried to figure out how the calculation really works, since most of us have had a hard time figuring out how ZOS calculates these things.Edited by Mendoze on September 8, 2014 2:20PM1
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kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭You get 21% reduction just from light armor, you get 8% more from seducer, another 3% if your breton. That doesn't even take in to account what you might get from your class. Then add on super high magicka recovery and Magicka flood from warlock.0
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Ryzium✭✭✭Uhmm, I'm little lost here. Did you mean that he complained that the cost increase should be nerfed. Like the cost increase should be lower? I think he tried to figure out how the calculation really works, since most of us have had a hard time figuring out how ZOS calculates these things.
Yes I the OP was not saying that it should be less I was saying that I thought the calculation was bugged or that I didn't understand how it was calculated. Nothing about it being too much or that dark cloak needs to be fixed because uhhh bolt escape OP and my ability doesn't work half the time....Ryzium__________________Alliance: Aldmeri Dominion- V12 Sorc - Clodel
- V2 Tempalr - Game Matrix
- V1 Nightblade - Soul Rend
- 26 DK - Ryzium
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