Pretty sure almost every nightblade that ganks in PvP loves their medium armor bonuses

I used to run medium armor dw/bow, but switched 3 months ago. Haven't looked back, despite the recent buffs to medium armor and stamina builds. I run light armor in both PVE and PVP.

I'm ideally looking for un buffed trial boss parses. How they compare for utility/ease of use.For eg the caster build builds a great raid defensive ultimate fast and off heals allies a bit while putting up 1100.

Group utility is lower on stamina because they don't have as good of a funnel health to offheal and to generate ultimate using the offheals on funnel health, although I wouldn't consider this alone to be a dealbreaker. For ease of use, melee is obviously more risky.

IMHO melee fighters should out do them

Yes, I agree. Higher risk should be more reward, but at the moment, that is just not the case.

As for PVP, most NBs (probably 80%+) are still medium armor, because they want to play stealth style. Moreover, medium armor builds have been improved a lot in PVP.

However, I'm still light armor for PVP, since i'm not a huge fan of stealth anyways. I don't see that much advantage in medium armor over light armor in PVP, whereas there are many clear advantages of light armor over medium armor. The only major advantage of medium armor NB to me is the ability to stealth gank at long range with a bow. This tactic works amazing in group coordination. However, light armor can still gank using teleport strike. The second advantage is mobility, but I don't consider it to be a major one.

OP, here's a good thread on another forum on a DW build.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/nightblade-stamina-based-dps-build-dw-viable-and-trials-ready/

My NB was in all medium throughout end game. Now I use 5 pieces light and 2 pieces of heavy since I like to min/max my NB (although I do have sets made to switch to any combo of Light, Medium, and Heavy I like and I'll be redoing that when VR14 is live as well). I mostly use DW/Bow but I have leveled basically all weapon sets. When running trials, yes you can use Bow but the arrow spray is no where's near as good an AOE as Destro has so I will run DW/Destro (usually) in Trials and Dungeons. You can also replace DW with 1H/Shield or even 2H. Yes you can DPS with Restro but there's not much of a point with a healer in the group --- unless they are still learning how to heal OR you are soloing group content of course.

As off topic as it may be, I'm using a medium armor bow-using templar in PvP. Having way more fun and getting more kills than with my staff and dress build.

Vampire hunter loadout is where it's at.

I use 5med and 2light on my dw/bow NB and yes I do trials.

Aeratus wrote: »

However, light armor can still gank using teleport strike. The second advantage is mobility, but I don't consider it to be a major one.

Teleport Strike gains the stealth damage modifier? I was under the impression it did not.

MongooseOne wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

However, light armor can still gank using teleport strike. The second advantage is mobility, but I don't consider it to be a major one.

Teleport Strike gains the stealth damage modifier? I was under the impression it did not.

oh god, yes it can. I teleport strike from stealth all the time. If I am pve'ing I will often either one shot the mob or get very close and finish it off with killer's blade.

Beldorrub17_ESO wrote: »

MongooseOne wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

However, light armor can still gank using teleport strike. The second advantage is mobility, but I don't consider it to be a major one.

Teleport Strike gains the stealth damage modifier? I was under the impression it did not.

It does and its the melee stealth modifier. You still need to be behind the target.

I still get crits from stealth in front of targets, just not as high.

Beldorrub17_ESO wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Beldorrub17_ESO wrote: »

MongooseOne wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

However, light armor can still gank using teleport strike. The second advantage is mobility, but I don't consider it to be a major one.

Teleport Strike gains the stealth damage modifier? I was under the impression it did not.

It does and its the melee stealth modifier. You still need to be behind the target.

I still get crits from stealth in front of targets, just not as high.

You can still crit from using the ability :P you just wont get 100% crit chance ~1400 + stun from the front. Lag could effect which direction they are looking as well.

yea I notice the difference. Sometimes it's just too much work to get myself behind the mob though, they already crumble so easily now.

Samadhi wrote: »

I went from 7 Medium to 5 Light 2 Medium.

Being a Bosmer and a Nightblade gives me bonuses to Sneak, Crit, and Stamina Regeneration.

Having 5 Light and 2 Medium makes up for the bonuses I miss out on from being a different Race and Class.

When on my Breton Sorcerer playing a Rogue, I go with 7 Medium or 5 Medium 2 Light instead.

I like to have my stats a bit more well rounded as opposed to being totally specced into one area.

Just incase you didnt know......

As a NB your class melee (physical skills) are based off of weapon crit. These skills are also based off of the targets armor and not their spell resist. These skills include, ambush, suprise attack, impale and so on. On the otherside of recieveing these you are better off with more armor to absorb these attacks (medium armor over light)

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

I went from 7 Medium to 5 Light 2 Medium.

Being a Bosmer and a Nightblade gives me bonuses to Sneak, Crit, and Stamina Regeneration.

Having 5 Light and 2 Medium makes up for the bonuses I miss out on from being a different Race and Class.

When on my Breton Sorcerer playing a Rogue, I go with 7 Medium or 5 Medium 2 Light instead.

I like to have my stats a bit more well rounded as opposed to being totally specced into one area.

Just incase you didnt know......

As a NB your class melee (physical skills) are based off of weapon crit. These skills are also based off of the targets armor and not their spell resist. These skills include, ambush, suprise attack, impale and so on. On the otherside of recieveing these you are better off with more armor to absorb these attacks (medium armor over light)

Only use Ambush out of the Melee skills. Always crits from Sneak, which is all that is needed from it most times. Otherwise it is just a gap closer that makes my next attack hit for more.
Use Strife and Sap Essence primarily.
Sword and Board with Defensive Posture for damage soak, which couples with the Siphoning for Survivability.
Seducer 5 piece set for added Magicka Regen and Spell Cost Reduction (which applies to all Class skills) so I can attack for ages.
Devouring Swarm morph for Ultimate in case I get in trouble and need more healing, but I've been playing around recently with Veil of Blades.

I've seen the post linked here before and he's running with a lot of buffs.
I was wondering what it's like unbuffed because with the same buffs a caster can hit 1.

Aeratus wrote: »

OP, here's a good thread on another forum on a DW build.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/nightblade-stamina-based-dps-build-dw-viable-and-trials-ready/[/quote
thank you for this it has answered my question. they are still not that good even after the latest updates.
They are viable but are still not on a par with the caster build for raw dps or the utility they bring.This is disappointing my medium arm,our will be staying in the bank for a while longer I guess.
This is not a dig at the poster or the guy who developed the build btw.
This build is buffed with pots etc and doesnt break 1000 on the bosses even when the fights are about 20 seconds. A caster build in those circumstances will get 1300-1400. With combat prayer warhorn etc. It will do up to 1700 while off healing and providing raid damage mitigation.
The build is good and the rotation seems awesome its ZOS poor balance that is to blame here. I hope they get a handle on it sooner rather than later.
I was under the impression they were struggling in pvp as well hope thats not the case. I heard that if someone is in full impen with a burst heal slotted nb are screwed.

Aeratus wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

As a NB there are alot of misconseptions with skills.

NB melee class skills are all based off of weapon crit and the targets armor. So for these skills medium armor enchances thier damage as where light armor gives no benefits other than cost reduction and magika regeneration. The light armor spell penetration does not effect them because they are based off of the targets armor. These skills are Teleport Strike, Vielled Strike, Assasins Blade, and morphs.

You've only set forth half of the picture, actually.

For NB melee skills (teleport strike, veiled strike, impale, etc.), the properties are:

1. Damage scales off of total magicka (favors light armor)
2. Damage also scales off of spell damage (favors light armor)
3. Uses magicka to cast (favors light armor)
4. Uses weapon crit rather than spell crit (favors medium armor)
5. Resisted by physical armor rather than spell resist

So out of the five properties above, 3 are in line with light armor, and 1 is in line with medium armor. The fifth one is neutral, but you're correct that the light armor spell penetration does not affect it.

Thus, cost reduction and magicka regeneration are not the only benefits of light armor. A light armor NB has a higher base damage for teleport strike and veiled strike.

A medium armor NB has a higher crit strike, but a light armor NB can activate shadowy disguise to increase crit.

Look at your light armor passives. (1) and (2) dont exist. light armor NB does not have higher base damage, it is the same.

(1) Light armor does not increase your magika. Your total magika and ability damage is the same weather you use light armor or medium.

(2) Light armor does not increase spell damage. Your spell damage and ability damage is the same weather you use light armor or medium.

The only factor which makes abilities do more damage for light armor is the concentration passive that ignores the targets spell resist. Which does not apply to these NB physical abilities we are talking about.

(3) This is the only favor for Light Armor because of Light Armor Passives that reduce the cost to use and increase your magika regeneration. Because of this you can use more abilities in the long run for sustained combat But most fights where a NB sneak attack opens dont even last that long for that effect to be needed. But you lack the burst damage of the same damage factor abilities with 21% + more crit from medium armor + The 10% NB crit damage bonus + any other crit damage bonuses.

So really it is 1 point light armor and 1 point medium armor.

Again in your case Light armor probably is better for you because you said you really like to use Funnel health / Shallow Soul alot and the other abilities that work off of spell piercing.

Shadowy Disguise is also another tactic but it come at a great magika cost. But a Shadowy Disguise crit will do the same damage as a normal crit which medium armor will usually do anyways with their 60% + crit builds. but with out the SD magika cost.

This was tested with ambush and surprise attack and medium armor puts out alot more damage in 10 seconds and 15 seconds compared to the exact same build with light armor.

BUT.. light armor does offer the ability to escape easier with being able to use shadowy disquise more often when escaping

It is about your build and playstyle, but for those going with teh classic assasin build of Ambush, Suprise Attack and Impale.... medium armor is superior

Look at your light armor passives. (1) and (2) dont exist. light armor NB does not have higher base damage, it is the same.

You are right if strictly speaking of only the armor. But I thought it was clear in the context of what I was writing that "light armor" referred to magicka builds that stack magicka and spell damage, since the original post was mainly interested in stamina vs. magicka builds. Sorry that the terminology was unclear.

Shadowy Disguise is also another tactic but it come at a great magika cost. But a Shadowy Disguise crit will do the same damage as a normal crit which medium armor will usually do anyways with their 60% + crit builds. but with out the SD magika cost.

I don't know what your usual targets are, but there are people running with 70% or even 80% crit resist. Without SD, you're not going to reliably crit them at all.

Also, I don't disagree that medium armor NBs are better assassins. I was just saying that light armor magicka builds make decent ones too.