I despise healers.

Tandor · August 2014

It must be tough to die so often to a healer.

Xehmnus_Rayne · August 2014

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

inspiral1 wrote: »

Sounds like your bitter about a pvp fight lol so just use abilities that reduce healing taken to target, that way you nuke them and they have to use all the mana to heal then are oom in no time, snipe morph reduces healing my 60% combine that with mark, they cant out heal this.

all classes have reduced healing spells.

What mark reduces healing? I know the assassination ultimate does but I was unaware of a mark target morph that reduces healing.

I don't think they meant that Mark Target reduces healing. They meant the combination they'd get from the added damage dealt from Mark Target and the reduced healing the target would get from the Snipe morph would be... more than they could heal through.

Rune_Relic · August 2014

How about you cant heal any faster than someone using a potion

Think that would level the field a bit.

Luvsfuzzybunnies · August 2014

UlanX wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

THAT'S EXACTLY THE POOOOIIIIIIINT. YOU HAVE TO BECAUSE THE GAME IS DESIGNED AROUND HAVING A HEALER AROUND AT ALL TIMES.

Also, I *am* the healer. Seriously, read the posts!

The poooooooiiint is stupid though. It should be that a party requires a mixture of classes. What do you want to do? Just steam roll through with dps, no effort, no skill, no planning?

That just sounds lazy or childish. If you want easy mode buy a Wii.

I think you missed the point completely. He is exactly for.the opposite. He wants to not be able to heal thru the bosses dps mechanic. He wants people to have to position correctly and be aware of the mechanics or die to them(as I would expect the devs had in mind when programming said mechanica). how is it fun to just stand in one spot and essentially tank and spank a fight minus the tank part?

Rhazmuz · August 2014

Go play GW2 if you dont like healers..

Csub · August 2014

Elyna wrote: »

I dont understand why healer classes are such a staple in games. They ruin PvP, and encourage developers to make lame boss mechanics.

PvP
I have yet to see a 1v1 fight that didnt revolve around "who can spam the most heals." Healing in PvP is less about who can outwit or outplay the other, but who has the biggest mana pool for healing and shields. Massive sheilds and heals effectively remove any sort of meaningful fights. Numerous times would I see people get the jump on someone, only to have the victim heal himself to full with a massive sheild and begin spamming AOE attacks winning the entire fight because he had more mana to spam heals. Is this what we call good design? Healers also discourage going in and going crazy. All fights are just 2 zergs pecking at each other until the other side rolls over because they ran out of mana for heals. I dont see people going in deep. This is because if they ever did go in, the entire damage would just get healed up in seconds and their death will be a waste.

Bosses and dungeons.
I played my first Trial. The trial of the Mage, to be exact. It was fun, until we got to the first major boss. The whole fight was just use spamming left click and healing. This was a MASSIVE let down and incredibly boring. Why is this even in the game? Healers. It would seem that the developers wanted to make the boss incredibly lame by giving him aoe as an attempt to make healers more valuable or something. This in my opinion, is bad game design. You shouldnt make a boss damage you for the sake of damaging you for artificial difficulty, it should damage you through mechanics you were couldnt dodge or block in time.

IB4: Learn to play, can i have your stuff, ect.

I am sorry if I have offended you with my mere existence, but... I like healing.

KenjiJU · August 2014

I can feel the OP's sentiment I think. I don't have as much experience in this game's PvP, but when a few players have the equivalent of a firing squad attacking them around 15% hp and their bar jumps to full, can't help but feel that something's a miss.

I know there're a lot more issues than just healing in those circumstances, but outside looking in, new players in Cyrodiil I'm sure feel the same 'wtf' levels of discouragement. My 2¢.

Csub · August 2014

KenjiJU wrote: »

I can feel the OP's sentiment I think. I don't have as much experience in this game's PvP, but when a few players have the equivalent of a firing squad attacking them around 15% hp and their bar jumps to full, can't help but feel that something's a miss.

I know there're a lot more issues than just healing in those circumstances, but outside looking in, new players in Cyrodiil I'm sure feel the same 'wtf' levels of discouragement. My 2¢.

Try to be a healer and you will see you are focused in seconds. We are not immortal, if we don't get help fast enough, we die.

cromica81_ESO · August 2014

Circuitous wrote: »

UlanX wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

THAT'S EXACTLY THE POOOOIIIIIIINT. YOU HAVE TO BECAUSE THE GAME IS DESIGNED AROUND HAVING A HEALER AROUND AT ALL TIMES.

Also, I *am* the healer. Seriously, read the posts!

The poooooooiiint is stupid though. It should be that a party requires a mixture of classes. What do you want to do? Just steam roll through with dps, no effort, no skill, no planning?

That just sounds lazy or childish. If you want easy mode buy a Wii.

It's not about what I want, I'm clarifying the OP's points. Again, I play a healer in ESO. I enjoy it. Insulting me or providing asinine suggestions to cater to your baseless perception of my preferred playstyle is unnecessary.

My point as devil's advocate is that encounters could be built in ways that don't mandate a healer there to compensate for large areas of unavoidable damage or other heals vs. damage races. Or that a hypothetical game could exist that had low or no healing and still could have meaningful encounter and dungeon design based on the inherent lethality of not being able to restore lost health easily, where it's far more important to strongly mitigate or outright avoid damage rather than just taking it on the chin and letting the medic handle the details.

Yes let's design encounters that just exclude one of the parts of the holy trinity.

Sounds like a terrible idea.

Luvsfuzzybunnies · August 2014

Draxuul wrote: »

Personnaly i love playing a healer and i know a lot of other people love playing healers but i cannot say that i disagree the OP's point of view.

A game without heals would be a game where player skill is much more relevant.But that doesn't mean that player skill is completly absent in this game . How many times have we seen people complain that templars should have better magicka sustainance in this forum?? WAY too many times i say. Yet i play Templar and i completly disagree with it . Which means that those who complain about it are people who do not wish to rely on skill but rather wish to have everything made easy for them. Yet the possibility to have good magicka sustaince as a Templar is there, it just requires a bit of work and saccrificing maybe some of your DPS or HP or Stamina in order to focus and improve your Magicka regen .

The fact that you need to choose to saccrifice certain aspects of your character to make another aspect more powerful proves that player skill and player choices DO matter in this game .

Now this game offers a class that has powerful heals as his class skills but also allows every other class to use a healing staff which means that everyone has access to powerful heals , no exception. The only difference is that Templars don't need to saccrifice a weapon slot to have access to heals.

Again this forces players to make a choice and assume it , and again means that choices matter in this game and that player skill is required to make those choices count.

Personnaly, if this game didn't have any form of magical healing available , i would most certainly find ways to make a character i love either way. Removing heals from this game would not make me hate it . I would actually enjoy the new challenge presented to me . But right now this game does offer heals and since i love using them, i will certainly keep taking advantage of them.

Now if there is one thing i hate , that would be AoE's . Or should i say instant cast AoE's or instant cast AoE spamming . I hate them both for PvE and PvP. That is certainly something that ruins or even nullifies any form of challenge. But i'll leave it at that cuz i'm straying from the main subject here.

Draxuul

While I appreciate the points you are making, they are exactly what is wrong with the game. You do not give anything up on certain classes by being high sustain. It would be one thing if you sacrificed dps to be able to heal more effectively or sacrificed dps for survivability and vice versa. However the classes with the stronger heal options certainly have an easier time of surviving but not at the cost of decreased dps.

cromica81_ESO · August 2014

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

PvP players whine about healing abilities and healers because they think they should be able to slaughter anyone they encounter in 2.3 seconds. Sorry, but that's not how it is.

No MMO ever has not had some type of healing abilities or a healing class. None.

Was gw2 an mmo?

Yes and it had healing abilities.

tordr86b16_ESO · August 2014

cromica81_ESO wrote: »

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

PvP players whine about healing abilities and healers because they think they should be able to slaughter anyone they encounter in 2.3 seconds. Sorry, but that's not how it is.

No MMO ever has not had some type of healing abilities or a healing class. None.

Was gw2 an mmo?

Yes and it had healing abilities.

+1 lol

AlexDougherty · August 2014

SFBryan18 wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

I would heal Elyna because I played a game called MAG where healing your teammates was done religiously, whether they like it or not. Numbers win battles, and I think most people can't see beyond the word 'hate' to actually understand what the OP is mad about.

I disagree, I think we understand what the OP is angry about, we might not be expressing very well, but the fact is that if we removed healers, it would change the dynamic of the game so much it wouldn't work.

Now removing NPC healers, that I could get behind. Also I would be very careful about the way I name in posts, Mods will give you a warning if you go too far.

Healing is a part of TES, but it might be too strong in this game. We can't spam potions like in past TES games, why can we spam and stack abilities? Just something I think is worth discussing.

Well getting the balance right can be tricky, if healing is too weak it destroys the game just as much as if it is too strong.

Going by the NPCs it does seem a trifle too strong, you have to take the healer out first in a mob, or the NPCs never die.

But I shudder to think of the consequences if the devs nerf it, they reduce abilities by far too much when they nerf. They use a sledge hammer instead of a feather touch.

Paske · August 2014

So...

You dislike healers because they play their role the way it was ment to be played ?

And by that actually healing ?

Teiji · August 2014

I have the solution.

Very velocious curse - Sorcerer ability

Target is cursed for 3.5 seconds. When effect completes target takes x Magic Damage, and nearby enemies take X Magic Damage, REDUCES HEALING RECEIVED BY 50% FOR 5 SECONDS to ALL targets hit. Only 1 curse may be active at a time.

New Effect:
Curse ends sooner.
REDUCES HEALING RECEIVED BY 50% FOR 5 SECONDS TO ALL DAMAGED BY THIS ABILITY.

ThisOnePosts · August 2014

This thread has to be a trolling thread...... if not then x1000 LOLs

Koreanwonder · August 2014

I game where every role presented in the game is available to all players... and still someone finds a way to wine ROFL. It takes all kinds I guess ;-) Cheers! Elyna I hope you find what you are looking for.

tordr86b16_ESO · August 2014

Rolled a breton templar, healing inc but not for the OP.

tordr86b16_ESO · August 2014

Paske wrote: »

So...

You dislike healers because they play their role the way it was ment to be played ?

And by that actually healing ?

snip

this one is better:

lol

ExiledKhallisi · August 2014

You must be new to MMO's. Welcome!

Without healers/heals... no one would play any class except those who do the most damage possible in the shortest amount of time. PVP would be a Whoever-Gets-The-First-Hit skilless spam fest of noobs. No tactics or thought involved.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

You know, actually, I agree with OP.

I propose ZOS gets rid of all healing abilities for one week and we see how it goes.

It'll be fun!

Soulshine · August 2014

@Circuitous‌

First off, if you want to take on the job of a mod and "clarify the OP's meaning" apply to ZoS they can give you a job.

Second, the reponses in the thread are not only to be expect, but right in line with the OPs level of verbage _ AND your own_ considering the very thread title is the he/she "despises" healers. He/She did NOT say "I despise the mechanic by which the game requires healers to get me through the tough content."

NOT the same thing by a long shot - and for the record, YOUR arguement that such is actually tht point still falls flat since NO, you did not offer any counter to the current state of affairs.

Third name calling people posting their opinion here as being tantamount to participating in an "idiot pile" wins you ZERO respect from anyone who may actually have something valid to say.

If you expect "meaningful conversation" then have the decency to stop namecalling people who have already been singled out by the OPs obviously poor ability to write, let alone articulate something other than the idea that "it's the healers' fault."

Your "solution" which is to make the game "low magic" does not in ANY WAY address what you say is the problem within the current game construct, it "merely" suggests the entire structure and basis of the game should be changed, which is highly unlikely.

If you want to suggest solutions that are viable, AGAIN - put your money where your mouth is and go experiement. My own earlier posts about running content without healers was not flippant or meant to be, nor were they unlike anything already done in countless other games, especially in betas (I have been in many) where you test out a given idea or theory and see just how well or how badly it would work.

Suggesting people work in THIS game with something that does not exists IN IT is not only out of place, it does nothing to resolve what you and the OP claim is the problem. In order for ZoS or any developer to change the game systems they need feedback to know what systems already in the game could possibly be used to support and or replace "the problem" (as you see it). THEN there would be somthing to discuss.

Artemiisia · August 2014

Elyna that easy solved

make groups yourself, and dont put healers in it, problem solved.....

Elyna · August 2014

SO instead of actually understanding the issue, youre all going to make snarky remarks that completely miss my point. This is why ESO is never going to improve at this rate. Nobody wants to accept that there are issues in this game.

Sarenia · August 2014

Hi.

I like healers. Feel free to heal me!

seneferab16_ESO · August 2014

Elyna wrote: »

SO instead of actually understanding the issue, youre all going to make snarky remarks that completely miss my point. This is why ESO is never going to improve at this rate. Nobody wants to accept that there are issues in this game.

I have seen some snarky remarks, but I have also seen some people seeing your point as well as debating it.

You are so busy focusing on the bad in this thread, you miss the good.

I suspect you are like this in game as well. Must be horrible to always be annoyed and angry about things and never see the occasional glimpts of light.

Circuitous · August 2014

@Soulshine Hi, I'm not trying to make suggestions for ESO. ESO's too established, healers aren't going anywhere, the current level of magic suits the established series and lore, let's please not be ridiculous. My suggestions were for a hypothetical new game that could exist without healers, a proof of concept and nothing more. That honestly should've been obvious from context. If I didn't convey it well enough, my apologies.

To reiterate: I have no counter to the current state of affairs beyond suggestions for a game wherein they don't exist in the first place. I take no issue with ESO's mechanics in this regard - even though I acknowledge the gameplay it leads to, that gameplay doesn't bother me. Again, I play a healer, and I love it. I hope this settles that issue.

I never attempted to articulate that it's "the healer's fault," either. My only concern is those who design the game and its encounters. It is not the player's fault for choosing a class they enjoy, even if there's an argument to be made for that class's existence occasionally leading to boring game design.

Do not read my posts like I'm up on the castle wall hurling insults down upon you. The only reason I even suggested people seemed to have trouble reading is because, like now, nearly everyone is countering points that no one made.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Circuitous wrote: »

@Soulshine Hi, I'm not trying to make suggestions for ESO. ESO's too established, healers aren't going anywhere, the current level of magic suits the established series and lore, let's please not be ridiculous. My suggestions were for a hypothetical new game that could exist without healers, a proof of concept and nothing more. That honestly should've been obvious from context. If I didn't convey it well enough, my apologies.

To reiterate: I have no counter to the current state of affairs beyond suggestions for a game wherein they don't exist in the first place. I take no issue with ESO's mechanics in this regard - even though I acknowledge the gameplay it leads to, that gameplay doesn't bother me. Again, I play a healer, and I love it. I hope this settles that issue.

I never attempted to articulate that it's "the healer's fault," either. My only concern is those who design the game and its encounters. It is not the player's fault for choosing a class they enjoy, even if there's an argument to be made for that class's existence occasionally leading to boring game design.

Do not read my posts like I'm up on the castle wall hurling insults down upon you. The only reason I even suggested people seemed to have trouble reading is because, like now, nearly everyone is countering points that no one made.

yea everyone and their little brother has revolutionary ideas for a new game. All I ever see is the same game with different titles tho...

Soulshine · August 2014

Circuitous wrote: »

@Soulshine Hi, I'm not trying to make suggestions for ESO. ESO's too established, healers aren't going anywhere, the current level of magic suits the established series and lore, let's please not be ridiculous. My suggestions were for a hypothetical new game that could exist without healers, a proof of concept and nothing more. That honestly should've been obvious from context. If I didn't convey it well enough, my apologies.

To reiterate: I have no counter to the current state of affairs beyond suggestions for a game wherein they don't exist in the first place. I take no issue with ESO's mechanics in this regard - even though I acknowledge the gameplay it leads to, that gameplay doesn't bother me. Again, I play a healer, and I love it. I hope this settles that issue.

I never attempted to articulate that it's "the healer's fault," either. My only concern is those who design the game and its encounters. It is not the player's fault for choosing a class they enjoy, even if there's an argument to be made for that class's existence occasionally leading to boring game design.

Do not read my posts like I'm up on the castle wall hurling insults down upon you. The only reason I even suggested people seemed to have trouble reading is because, like now, nearly everyone is countering points that no one made.

Backpeddlig now I see. If you are going to accuse others of not reading, make sure you do so yourself before you post -- and since it seems you also still cannot cease from using terms which insinuate the rest of us who disagree are just being "ridiculous" there is little point in responding to you further. Moving on.

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2014

If you crush heals, fine. Give Templars a nice fat +Armor bonus on top of their Spell resistance, and give them a nice fat boost to weapon damage. That might make them on par with other classes (but I doubt it). While I might understand the sentiment Elyna, I do not think it has a place in this game. As it stands, they're about to unleash Spellcrafting which will add a whole other level of powers to the mix, that we have no idea about yet. They're going to have 'armor' type spells for instance (I saw the video of it). Muffle. Invisibility. Summons of every variety. Restoration spells will be open to everyone. Instead of getting rid of healing, I think you're just going to see more of it. I hate to say it, but if healing bothers you this much, I seriously think ESO is the wrong game for you. I'm not saying this with any form of malice.

Just on a personal level, main character is meant to be a Templar tank. So I have a good sense first hand about healing and tanking in the game. If you take away my healing capacity, I am pretty sure that me and every other Templar Tank out there would be pretty upset if we didn't get something in return. It also sounds like you do not like mitigation abilities either, which will gut the class I play. Templars don't have much in the way of offense, and you can read a lot of forum posts about this on the forums. When you need someone tough, or that can heal though, we're your guys. I'm happy with the level of offense I have, but only in light of the toughness and ability to heal that I have.