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It's only good PVP when I'm winning
grimjim398
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Right? That seems to be the thrust of most of the pvp posts I read on the forum. And it's ZOS's job to correct all the problems that keep me from winning, including stuff like imbalance between the number of players in factions.
Beyond balance between the classes, which is clearly a job for Zenimax, what actual responsibility do the developers have to make sure you can win?
Do they really need to nerf vampires because a lot of people play as vampires?
Do they really need to limit the populations of factions to keep the numbers balanced?
Do they really need to stop players from using (or even overusing) tactics that work well, like impulse zergs?
When players learn to use a skill that skews PVP wins to them, does ZOS really need to step in and stop that?
At what point should players be expected to adapt and develop their own strategies to counter these tactics?
Beyond balance between the classes, which is clearly a job for Zenimax, what actual responsibility do the developers have to make sure you can win?
Do they really need to nerf vampires because a lot of people play as vampires?
Do they really need to limit the populations of factions to keep the numbers balanced?
Do they really need to stop players from using (or even overusing) tactics that work well, like impulse zergs?
When players learn to use a skill that skews PVP wins to them, does ZOS really need to step in and stop that?
At what point should players be expected to adapt and develop their own strategies to counter these tactics?
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AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not true, I've had good PVP when I'm losing, I'm not the best player, but what makes a PVP experience bad for me is dying before I learn anything, or getting lag kill me.
It's far more complicated than winning = good, although that does play a part I'll admit.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Amen to OP. It's a L2P issue 90% of the time, but people rather cry & ask for nerfs
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KhajitFurTrader✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wait, what?! I thought that the only viable point to PvP existing at all was to let me win. What are you implying? That I should give up on aping the FOTM "I win" strategy and actually use my brain?! That I shouldn't come here any longer to cry nerf on everything that gets in the way of my well-deserved pwning?
One word: IN-CON-CEIVABLE!
(Warning: post may contain tongue-in-cheek and ironical statements. Do not consume with malfunctioning irony detectors or desiccated sense of humor
) 5 -
JoffyToffy69✭✭✭✭I agree 100%
People just winge and cry rather then learn and develop tactics.
Most of the people who complain are most likely pugs or just filthy casuals.
I also enjoy losing at pvp to a point. It gives you something to do, fight against and achieve.
When campaigns are completely dominated by your alliance, its hard to get any action. An as soon as there is the slightest bit, everyone jumps on it.
I guess population could help. But requests for nerfing is just a poor players pleaFun comes from diversity, balance kills diversity.
Former Empress Serabii0 -
Vunter✭✭✭
NahDo they really need to nerf vampires because a lot of people play as vampires?
Don't know, but they should do something about night capping (for consecutive days at least)Do they really need to limit the populations of factions to keep the numbers balanced?
You call that a "tactic"? lolDo they really need to stop players from using (or even overusing) tactics that work well, like impulse zergs?
But no, you can avoid impulse trains..
Sometimes.When players learn to use a skill that skews PVP wins to them, does ZOS really need to step in and stop that?
Example, blazing shield since it was de-nerfed = immortability...
It depends. Some broken mechanics are broken mechanics.At what point should players be expected to adapt and develop their own strategies to counter these tactics?
Edit: just wanted to clarify these are only my opinions obviously.Edited by Vunter on August 29, 2014 11:03AM0 -
synnerman✭✭✭✭
You call that a "tactic"? lolDo they really need to stop players from using (or even overusing) tactics that work well, like impulse zergs?
But no, you can avoid impulse trains..
yes you can avoid impulse trains....except when youre defending a outer wall breach, inner wall breach, resource flag, inner keep flag 1 and inner keep flag 2 ....oh and scrolls in keeps and scrolls at temple...... Oh wait that's 80% of the game.
So yes they do need to do something about the impulse zerg. No not stop people using the tactic (people can do whatever they want) But I want the opportunity of being able to wipe them without them hiding behind a broken game mechanic.1 -
grimjim398✭✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »Not true, I've had good PVP when I'm losing, I'm not the best player, but what makes a PVP experience bad for me is dying before I learn anything, or getting lag kill me.
It's far more complicated than winning = good, although that does play a part I'll admit.
I agree that it's not true; I used that title to comment on the attitude that I read in the forums far too often, though certainly not by sensible players.0 -
grimjim398✭✭✭Yes, impulse zerging is a tactic, even if it's an easy and cheesy one.Edited by grimjim398 on August 29, 2014 11:10AM0
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cuz_mike200✭✭✭True, but I still enjoy myself even if I lose, only around half an hour ago both The Ebonheart Pact and The Daggerfall Covenant were attacking castle Roeback (Under Aldmeri Dominion control) to get an elder scroll we previously took in Thornblade. The Pact were attack south and The Covenant were attacking North. It was trouble to counter siege but I ended up leaving before seeing what happened next due to lag, bugs and crashes. But overall it was very fun, I would enjoy it a lot more if lag, FPS bugs and crashes could be fixed, and of course becoming Emporer which I will achieve when I get to VR 12 or VR 14 if I achieve it in update 4.Edited by cuz_mike200 on August 29, 2014 11:16AM0 -
cracker81✭✭✭
You call that a "tactic"? lolDo they really need to stop players from using (or even overusing) tactics that work well, like impulse zergs?
But no, you can avoid impulse trains..
yes you can avoid impulse trains....except when youre defending a outer wall breach, inner wall breach, resource flag, inner keep flag 1 and inner keep flag 2 ....oh and scrolls in keeps and scrolls at temple...... Oh wait that's 80% of the game.
So yes they do need to do something about the impulse zerg. No not stop people using the tactic (people can do whatever they want) But I want the opportunity of being able to wipe them without them hiding behind a broken game mechanic.
Here we go. Ok you see one coming run, oil, high ground, and other tactics. If your group does tactics as spread out and hit same target your good. 5 ppl took out 30 that way.0 -
synnerman✭✭✭✭yeah run to high ground on a breach, keep flags , scroll...oh im repeating myself. and yeah we know oil can work sometimes especially if the purgers and barrier guys in the grps fail. BTW running away from a scroll or an open breach often results in losing said keep/scroll.0
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kevlarto_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭PVP can be fun win or lose, I had long fights only to lose in the end but it was a blast and the other way around, what makes pvp not fun is the cheater you might run into once in a while, I have seen a couple in the game, and I do report them, I have played this game and mmo's long enough to know what can be done in the limits of the game.0 -
Ser Lobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Players will abuse the system no matter what rules you apply.
But yes, it's ZOS's job to correct those abuses whenever they are found.Ruze Aulus. Mayor of Dhalmora. Archer, hunter, assassin. Nightblade.
Gral. Mountain Terror. Barbarian, marauder, murderer. Nightblade.
Na'Djin. Knight-Blade. Knight, vanguard, defender. Nightblade.
XBOX NARuze is a veteran of the PC Beta, lived through the year one drought, survived the buy-to-play conversion, and has stepped foot in the hells known as Craglorn. He mained a nightlbade when nightblades weren't good, and has never worn a robe. He converted from PC during the console betas, and hasn't regretted it a moment since.
He'd rank ESO:TU (in it's current state) a 4.8 out of 5, loving the game almost entirely.
This is an multiplayer game. I should be able to log in, join a dungeon, join a battleground, queue for a dolmen or world boss or delve, teleport in, play for 20 minutes, and not worry about getting kicked, failing to join, having perfect voice coms, or being unable to complete content because someone's lagging behind. Group Finder and matchmaking is broken. Take a note from Destiny and build a system that allows from drop-in/drop-out functionality and quick play.0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭grimjim398 wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »Not true, I've had good PVP when I'm losing, I'm not the best player, but what makes a PVP experience bad for me is dying before I learn anything, or getting lag kill me.
It's far more complicated than winning = good, although that does play a part I'll admit.
I agree that it's not true; I used that title to comment on the attitude that I read in the forums far too often, though certainly not by sensible players.
Sorry, I only scanned the post, I get it now.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ive always liked pvp. But you do run into those chuckleheads from time to time.
When i win it is because i worked hard with a hard to play class. When you win it is because you are playing fotm.
When our faction wins, it is because we are all brilliant strategist and overcame overwhelming odds to pull out a well deserved victory. When your faction wins it is because the mindless zerg carried you.
It is best you stick to these simple principles when posting any opinion on PVP.2 -
dennissomb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭The developers job is to sift through the crap and do the best the can when it comes time for changes. Some times mechanics/abilities are simply wrong. I would guess that they get far more information from in game then they do from forums. It is a tricky, thankless job for the developer, but that's what they get paid for0
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Azarul✭✭✭✭I agree except for the Impulse zerg. When the game takes away the only "good" way to take out the zerg, ie AoE caps, then yes it is ZoS job to balance it some how. Otherwise my only choice is to double their numbers and zerg it back.0
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Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LOL, if winning was what I enjoyed I'd never play PvP
Having fun is the point of PvP, not that winning isn't fun... but more fun is just getting stuck into a good melee, taking down a couple of people before you die, successfully defending a key position only to rush half way across the map to fail to keep another, tossing oil missiles onto an attacking zerg, suprising the hell out of someone out of stealth and getting away after you've ganked them, galloping like a loon to chase a scroll and then getting jumped by 2 NBs doing rearguard duty... laughing like crazy and doing it all again...2 -
Bramir✭✭✭✭I think you miss the point of a lot of posts about pvp imbalances. Most people want good competition, not faceroll one way or the other.
How do you suggest players develop strategies to counter the massive numbers advantage AD has in NA? And just to be sure you aren't just another biased poster, what faction do you pvp for?
Zenimax has to be involved in this, or noone will pvp any more after a few more months of this. Its one thing to lose...its another to not have a chance because of something totally out of your control like population imbalances. This is not a real war...its a game.0 -
Pseudonym✭✭✭I'd rather be on the underdog, losing side. Perhaps it's just because I enjoy defending against undefeatable odds. It makes me feel like Leonidas and his 300 Spartans.
Anyone can join a zerg ball of destruction; you could be level 3 and naked, yet still pile into the keep unscathed. I'm all about being part of the resistance; driven underground and taking every small victory wherever we can.
I find Guerrilla tactics far more rewarding than our math vs their math.3 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't do PvP, but when PvE beats me, it's like "you sunna of a ......". OK, let me adjust my tactics and skill bar and show you a really good time you sucker. My first thought is not, what can ZOS do to make this easier. It's what can I do to make my character win.
I would take the same attitude to PvP if I go there.Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"1 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some of my best PVP has been while I'm on the losing end of the stick.
Sometimes a broken mechanic is a broken mechanic, and it's as simple as that.1 -
Thechemicals✭✭✭✭✭Op is right and that is why i focus on being a winner.Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
Vr14 Dk bow/2h
Brayan Blackthunder
Goddick
Daggerfall Covenant0 -
Pseudonym✭✭✭Thechemicals wrote: »Op is right and that is why i focus on being a winner.
That's so hipster. I've never thought about trying to win before.0 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭You forgot about Bolt Escape so sorcerers didn't have to stand in place while the melee guys swing at him0 -
seneferab16_ESO✭✭✭The best PvP for me is when odds are even or slightly in the opposing teams favor. I lose a lot, I win a lo..l, but I die with a smile.
...unless it's from Unbreakable CC, trying to defend a scroll against an impulse zerg, having to /reloadui while chased by a group of enemies because the posten door isn't working and not knowing if I do damage/heals because of the massive lag created by two impulse groups clashing. Not to mention the small annoyances as setting up siege and watch it decay in front of me because I can't interact with it, unable to mount/port between keeps because I am stuck in combat and when I automatically leave the siege equipment I am on because I want to type out a warning or door% in the chat.
See, developers have no obigation to make sure I can win, but they do have an obligation to make sure the playing field is as bug free and level as possible.
Right now it is not.Aerin Treerunner, pre dinner snack0 -
Thechemicals✭✭✭✭✭Thechemicals wrote: »Op is right and that is why i focus on being a winner.
That's so hipster. I've never thought about trying to win before.
Its true that some players will never be winners.Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
Vr14 Dk bow/2h
Brayan Blackthunder
Goddick
Daggerfall Covenant0 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Do they really need to nerf vampires because a lot of people play as vampires?
You aren't presenting the reason why they need Nerfed. The best way to fix Vampires is to make it so when you use Vamp Bats you cannot use other abilities while its active (Impulse, Talons).Do they really need to limit the populations of factions to keep the numbers balanced?
Populations should be limited for other reasons. Balanced populations are a good thing.Do they really need to stop players from using (or even overusing) tactics that work well, like impulse zergs?
There is a certain straw that breaks the camels back. like Impulse Zergs + AoE Limit is bad because AoE is the desired counter to Zergballs. But when each member of the Zergball has only a 20% chance or less to be hit by an AoE, that is an issue.When players learn to use a skill that skews PVP wins to them, does ZOS really need to step in and stop that?
No. Genius players have already risen to the occasion and now every class has multiple Magicka, Stamina and Split Builds. There is more than One Cheese to Rule Them All.
The argument "Players are too skilled so reduce the power of their abilities" has never been made. The argument "Some skills are overpowered and builds without those skills aren't viable" is made often.
Pro Tip: If there is an FoTM, play against it. If enough people really are doing it, you will have an easier life.At what point should players be expected to adapt and develop their own strategies to counter these tactics?
At every point along the way.
Some things genuinely are OP. They should be addressed. A skilled player will learn how to win and often conform to FOTM.
Within; Without.2 -
Vatter✭✭✭✭✭grimjim398 wrote: »Right? That seems to be the thrust of most of the pvp posts I read on the forum. And it's ZOS's job to correct all the problems that keep me from winning, including stuff like imbalance between the number of players in factions.
Beyond balance between the classes, which is clearly a job for Zenimax, what actual responsibility do the developers have to make sure you can win?
Do they really need to nerf vampires because a lot of people play as vampires?
Do they really need to limit the populations of factions to keep the numbers balanced?
Do they really need to stop players from using (or even overusing) tactics that work well, like impulse zergs?
When players learn to use a skill that skews PVP wins to them, does ZOS really need to step in and stop that?
At what point should players be expected to adapt and develop their own strategies to counter these tactics?
So i'm going to assume you play a vampire sorc then?
Most people complain about the game breaking performance issues in cyrodill that let those nooblet impulse, bats, talons spammers get away with what they do. jabs and streak should activate a cc immunity, talons perma root bug needs to be fixed, weapon swap needs to be fixed.
I'm not gonna list the other 15-20 bugs and exploits that are abused. Theres plenty of threads on them.Edited by Vatter on August 29, 2014 5:58PM0
