smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I fell asleep reading this thread and had a daymare about a Fallout MMO created by Zenimax. lol

You are truly sick and should seek immediate help. It's already a nightmare that Fallout is now made by Bethesda even if I like both Bethesda and ZoS if they make TES games.

I haven't played 3 or 4, myself (though I recently bought all of them for steam.)

I do like that it is more action than turn based now, though when I played the originals, I was very much more interested in turn based play.

In what way do you feel they butchered it?

I don't know about him, but I thought Beth did a good job on 3. Not great, but good. The VATS implementation basically gave you that turn-based feel from 1, 2, and Tactics. The dialog was the biggest let down. It was good, but not enough dark humor from the originals. Gameplay was fairly solid. Overall an enjoyable experience.

Could a possible failure from ESO hurt future TES games by Bethesda?

No.

RazielSR wrote: »

The main reason of the topic has ended in some people saying things like this:

I would expect TES VI will be the last real single player \ stand alone TES game. TES VI is probably already in the development pipeline (after FO4), and that is the only reason I think it will come out.

And when I read this:

TES VI is probably already in the development pipeline (after FO4), and that is the only reason I think it will come out.


I mean...

And this:

The only argument I could see for continuing the success of the single player games is the fact that ESO games have always been highly customizable \ moddable, allowing the community to fix what they didn't like about the game. Improvement of TES games were effectively crowd sourced before crowd sourcing became a buzz word (although even with the bugs, the TES games were always a really great foundation to base community improvements on).


Are you aware of SKYRIM numbers?

Do you live on planet earth?

You're welcome to disagree with me, and I am aware of how popular Skyrim is. I played it, I loved it, it was a great game. I still stand by my contention that TES VI will be the last true "stand alone" TES game.

You have to take into account how increasingly expensive it is to make good video games like TES. There's as much, if not more, effort that goes into the production of a game like this than there is a major motion picture. They will continue to make games in the franchise, but each game is an investment risk. As good as the games are that the studio has been producing, there's no guarantee that any sequel in the franchise will be the same quality. And you're looking at years of many people's lives and 9 figures of development cost to make each sequel they want to make. That's a huge risk every time, no matter how successful they have been in the past.

The online game provides a mechanism that helps mitigate that risk - direct player feedback, substantiated by precise metrics that can be gleaned almost instantaneously combined with the ability to incrementally improve the game and receive the same immediate feedback on those improvements. It gives them the ability to improve the game within a few weeks if it is not well received, instead of the months it takes for any game that does not provide direct feedback from the player. It's not just the TES franchise, 5 years from now most games will be like this, this is the way technology is moving. There will be time to release 1 TES game in the next 5 years, and the game after that will be designed for the always on \ always connected path technology is taking.

The ES franchise will continue, but it will be online games. ESO is the first foray into that, and I expect with their desire to produce a high quality game combined with immediate and metricable feedback they will have one of the best games on the market in a few years. Whether that is after years of improvements to ESO or when they produce an ESO2 I won't venture to guess, but "always connected" is the way all aspects of the tech industry is moving. Right now it's called "the internet of things," but it will probably have a fancy new buzzword 5 years from now.

Again, I'm an ES Fanboi. I love the series, and I want them to produce more high quality games. I simply don't believe it will be iterative repetitions of TES III/IV/V. They will adapt to modern trends of technology, which means always connected, all the time.

Virtually all the bashing I see is forum trolls on gaming sites. It's not because they have even played the game, they want it to do poorly in the hopes that it will go F2P. Some want it to fail so they can actually play it free.

How sad is that.

PBpsy wrote: »

In terms of gameplay what we ended up was a really finicky shooter that was made playable by a very lame bullet time system. Their targeting system didn't bring any TBRPG feel to it but removed any fun you might have had with responsive shooter. The RPG stat system was also a big irrelevant joke since no matter where you assigned your points the result was the same.


.....

I did fine just aiming in third person. I also agree on your points about the weird stat system and leveling in general, but Oblivion had similar issues. Skyrim isn't perfect either, but people eat this stuff up.. there's just no good competition. In a way it feels like the whole MMO market is keeping back the fantasy action genre; all these great IPs and namesakes, but clunky and tired old MMO mechanics.

Anyway, I don't think ESO will hurt the next Bethesda Scrolls game at all.

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

if there are still comming single player TES games
how many warcraft games have you seen after wow ... exactly

there's a simple but important difference between ESO and WoW on that regard. Blizzard got it harder to create new RTS warcraft is because WoW itself set at time period after Warcraft 3. Also to note that all Warcraft games story line closed to each other, which makes it even harder to create a new RTS Warcraft without killing their successful product WoW. The only hope for Warcraft 4 is if they really stop WoW story development for good.

ESO on the otherhand, not only all TES games on a totally different timeline that mostly only long live elves and immortals (Aedra & Daedra) might reappear, they did rather well by choosing a blank un-recorded age before any TES original games. By that point of view alone, there're really a lot of possibilities open to develop a good TESVI that happens anywhere after TESV Skyrim's timeline.

Long story short, story & lore wise, TES is more flexible than Warcraft.

firstdecan wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

The main reason of the topic has ended in some people saying things like this:

I would expect TES VI will be the last real single player \ stand alone TES game. TES VI is probably already in the development pipeline (after FO4), and that is the only reason I think it will come out.

And when I read this:

TES VI is probably already in the development pipeline (after FO4), and that is the only reason I think it will come out.


I mean...

And this:

The only argument I could see for continuing the success of the single player games is the fact that ESO games have always been highly customizable \ moddable, allowing the community to fix what they didn't like about the game. Improvement of TES games were effectively crowd sourced before crowd sourcing became a buzz word (although even with the bugs, the TES games were always a really great foundation to base community improvements on).


Are you aware of SKYRIM numbers?

Do you live on planet earth?

You're welcome to disagree with me, and I am aware of how popular Skyrim is. I played it, I loved it, it was a great game. I still stand by my contention that TES VI will be the last true "stand alone" TES game.

You have to take into account how increasingly expensive it is to make good video games like TES. There's as much, if not more, effort that goes into the production of a game like this than there is a major motion picture. They will continue to make games in the franchise, but each game is an investment risk. As good as the games are that the studio has been producing, there's no guarantee that any sequel in the franchise will be the same quality. And you're looking at years of many people's lives and 9 figures of development cost to make each sequel they want to make. That's a huge risk every time, no matter how successful they have been in the past.

The online game provides a mechanism that helps mitigate that risk - direct player feedback, substantiated by precise metrics that can be gleaned almost instantaneously combined with the ability to incrementally improve the game and receive the same immediate feedback on those improvements. It gives them the ability to improve the game within a few weeks if it is not well received, instead of the months it takes for any game that does not provide direct feedback from the player. It's not just the TES franchise, 5 years from now most games will be like this, this is the way technology is moving. There will be time to release 1 TES game in the next 5 years, and the game after that will be designed for the always on \ always connected path technology is taking.

The ES franchise will continue, but it will be online games. ESO is the first foray into that, and I expect with their desire to produce a high quality game combined with immediate and metricable feedback they will have one of the best games on the market in a few years. Whether that is after years of improvements to ESO or when they produce an ESO2 I won't venture to guess, but "always connected" is the way all aspects of the tech industry is moving. Right now it's called "the internet of things," but it will probably have a fancy new buzzword 5 years from now.

Again, I'm an ES Fanboi. I love the series, and I want them to produce more high quality games. I simply don't believe it will be iterative repetitions of TES III/IV/V. They will adapt to modern trends of technology, which means always connected, all the time.

I... absolutely, immensely disagree with you. So, every forum on the internet is talking about how MMO are a distaster and their communities are just insane, and how the companies are losing money with mmos (if not WOW) and how the f2p model is gaining more and more place...I mean it is common sense that the mmo industry is almost destroyed the way it is now. And then you come here chaning the reality and adapting it to yourself thoughts?

Reality is that mmo games are usually a way to lose a lot of money quickly. Single player games are most secure and cmon...TES VI being the last and going with the next ones being just online??

Have you ever followed Todd Howard career, thoughts and interviews?

BETHESDA morphing into the mmo/online world?

Sorry, you can't be serious.

It is A LOT more serious to say that ESO will go f2p in 2 years or less and will be over in 5 years than what you are saying, sorry.

RazielSR wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

The main reason of the topic has ended in some people saying things like this:

I would expect TES VI will be the last real single player \ stand alone TES game. TES VI is probably already in the development pipeline (after FO4), and that is the only reason I think it will come out.

And when I read this:

TES VI is probably already in the development pipeline (after FO4), and that is the only reason I think it will come out.


I mean...

And this:

The only argument I could see for continuing the success of the single player games is the fact that ESO games have always been highly customizable \ moddable, allowing the community to fix what they didn't like about the game. Improvement of TES games were effectively crowd sourced before crowd sourcing became a buzz word (although even with the bugs, the TES games were always a really great foundation to base community improvements on).


Are you aware of SKYRIM numbers?

Do you live on planet earth?

You're welcome to disagree with me, and I am aware of how popular Skyrim is. I played it, I loved it, it was a great game. I still stand by my contention that TES VI will be the last true "stand alone" TES game.

You have to take into account how increasingly expensive it is to make good video games like TES. There's as much, if not more, effort that goes into the production of a game like this than there is a major motion picture. They will continue to make games in the franchise, but each game is an investment risk. As good as the games are that the studio has been producing, there's no guarantee that any sequel in the franchise will be the same quality. And you're looking at years of many people's lives and 9 figures of development cost to make each sequel they want to make. That's a huge risk every time, no matter how successful they have been in the past.

The online game provides a mechanism that helps mitigate that risk - direct player feedback, substantiated by precise metrics that can be gleaned almost instantaneously combined with the ability to incrementally improve the game and receive the same immediate feedback on those improvements. It gives them the ability to improve the game within a few weeks if it is not well received, instead of the months it takes for any game that does not provide direct feedback from the player. It's not just the TES franchise, 5 years from now most games will be like this, this is the way technology is moving. There will be time to release 1 TES game in the next 5 years, and the game after that will be designed for the always on \ always connected path technology is taking.

The ES franchise will continue, but it will be online games. ESO is the first foray into that, and I expect with their desire to produce a high quality game combined with immediate and metricable feedback they will have one of the best games on the market in a few years. Whether that is after years of improvements to ESO or when they produce an ESO2 I won't venture to guess, but "always connected" is the way all aspects of the tech industry is moving. Right now it's called "the internet of things," but it will probably have a fancy new buzzword 5 years from now.

Again, I'm an ES Fanboi. I love the series, and I want them to produce more high quality games. I simply don't believe it will be iterative repetitions of TES III/IV/V. They will adapt to modern trends of technology, which means always connected, all the time.

I... absolutely, immensely disagree with you. So, every forum on the internet is talking about how MMO are a distaster and their communities are just insane, and how the companies are losing money with mmos (if not WOW) and how the f2p model is gaining more and more place...I mean it is common sense that the mmo industry is almost destroyed the way it is now. And then you come here chaning the reality and adapting it to yourself thoughts?

Reality is that mmo games are usually a way to lose a lot of money quickly. Single player games are most secure and cmon...TES VI being the last and going with the next ones being just online??

Have you ever followed Todd Howard career, thoughts and interviews?

BETHESDA morphing into the mmo/online world?

Sorry, you can't be serious.

It is A LOT more serious to say that ESO will go f2p in 2 years or less and will be over in 5 years than what you are saying, sorry.

I appreciate your counterpoint until you post something like this:

"Have you ever followed Todd Howard career, thoughts and interviews?"

If there was a point in this statement, you should make the point, not ask a hypothetical question. It serves discussion much better. As it stands, you've made an ambiguous hypothetical question from which I would have to surmise whatever point you think is made by asking the question.

As for the rest, I still stand by my contention that the industry will move away from stand alone games. The fact that many MMOs are finding better success with the Freemium \ F2P business model than with a subscription model doesn't change the fact that they're online. As far as MMOs being a disaster in general - how is that different than any video game, let alone business? 9 out of 10 businesses fail, and if you look at the video game market, there's hundreds (if not thousands) of titles published every year that don't sell. It's a very competitive market, and failure is much more common than success. The TES franchise has bucked that trend by producing consistently high quality games.

Again, I'm not trying to slag the franchise, they had me at Morrowind. It is a phenomenal franchise. I'm providing a third option to the OP's question. It is phrased in such a way that the OP wonders if the success \ failure of ESO will affect the stand alone games. My answer is no, because I think the stand alone games will simply be affected by the realities of technology.

Take any game you buy on Steam as an example. Many gamers love Steam because it's a common marketplace to buy the games, they have good sales, and some even enjoy the Steam community. EVERY game on Steam has been adapted to the online model: they provide "achievements" which are a way of tracking your behavior in a game (achievements have other affects as well, but that is a tangential discussion), in addition to tracking your playtime and other gaming habits. Steam is a market research engine for the video game industry, and they're very good at it (yes, I realize they are also a distribution engine. Distribution is difficult without good marketing).

The fact that other online games are not very good or successful is irrelevant, you see the same trend with stand alone games and business in general. The fact that the online connectivity provides a more agile response to research and development is where the real value proposition lies, and what will increasingly move the industry (not just TES) towards always connected gaming.

TequilaFire wrote: »

I fell asleep reading this thread and had a daymare about a Fallout MMO created by Zenimax. lol

You joke, but I would bet anything that Zenimax/Bethesda have at least considered doing one.

Xenite wrote: »

Virtually all the bashing I see is forum trolls on gaming sites. It's not because they have even played the game, they want it to do poorly in the hopes that it will go F2P. Some want it to fail so they can actually play it free.

How sad is that.

Never underestimate how cheap some people are. I once had to remove a virus from a computer that a guy got from downloading a pirated game that he could have bought for $5 on Steam.

I really hope ESO never goes F2P. The monthly fee is at least somewhat of a barrier against the annoying cheapskates, kids, and the worst of the gold farmers.

They can do an Elder Scrolls MMO because the lore spans centuries (thousands of years) and there is so much room to play that it really is a no-brainer. The single player and MMO versions can both be developed independently of each other.

ESO has no calendar, no clocks, no passage of time once the game starts. They are free to create expansion packs that happen years after the base game. They can easily do this without making any impact on TES 6. Certainly, lore from ESO can make it into TES 6, but TES 6 will be a completely independent game.

Fallout spans a few decades (<150 years) and location is really what separates that game, not time. A Fallout MMO would have to co-exist within the existing Fallout lore, and while there are blocks of space and time that could be used, there would be much less freedom. They could place the MMO in the years between FO1 and FO2, or the years between FO2 and FO3. If they put it after FO4, assuming that it is after FO3/FNV, then they effectively cut off any new FO5 development.

But, in all seriousness, nothing in Fallout is epic enough for an MMO. The Fallout games are wonderful and I love playing them, but at the core they are all about local skirmishes to determine who controls a particular bit of destroyed property. These things do not make an epic MMO and I see no room in the lore for anything epic to happen. The Fallout world is already close to rock bottom, that is sort of required for a post-apocalyptic game, so the only direction to go is up. Every epic story worthy of an MMO that I can think of ends the franchise.

The Elder Scrolls lore allows for, and includes, epic world spanning end of the world events. While the game play is localized to the area covered by the game, the threats from Dagoth Ur, Mehrunes Dagon, Alduin, and Molag Bal are larger than the game. As long as these threats are defeated, the games can go on.

Why is everyone obsessed with games failing?

Sounds like some people would enjoy a game to fail just for the sake of forum drama