Thornblade EU

Keron · August 2014

@Sharee‌

Then as a compromise: faction based campaign. If you have two EP toons, both have to go in the same campaign, if you have alts in different factions, those can go different campaigns thus allowing both to PvP.

In regards to the other point, certain guilds/groups on each side will coordinate anyways where to join. It will not help much to give the campaigns new names. That's why I proposed to lock a faction if it has a certain number of home'ers.

In my view, the main reason a campaign is dominated is higher pool of players which will then cause the pop to be higher over longer periods of time. This may be solved more efficiently by limiting pool than by hoping to shuffle those pools in an environment where the friend list allows even cross faction communication outside of cyrodiil.

But I'm not fixated on the campaign names, so they can as well put in new campaigns as long as the other measures are implemented as well. Especially with the lock, a significant amount of people of a winning faction will be forced to switch campaigns thus changing the battlefield anyways.

Mauz · August 2014

First of all I would remove the faction hp and dps buff for having an emperor and owning the whole map. I doesn't make sense that the superior faction which outnumbers the others IN ADDITION play with buffed chars with more hp, more crit, more dmg etc.

Give them some special rewards, uniqui items or what ever but not making them even stronger. I'll never get why really each and every mmo developer has no better idea than to rewards the strongest with buffs so that the weaker players have even less chance to get any success.

When I log on and see the whole map is red and one train is sitting at each of our gates waiting for some x vs 1...what do I do? Lemming over and over again into the red trains with no reward like most of my faction mates are doing? No, I sneak through and gank blues. Simply cause they are on the same level I am. Isnt fun to lose fights cause ZoS had no other idea than buffing my opponents as reward cause they outnumber me. Thats completely fanciless.

Additionally I would make it much more difficult to become an emperor. Just take the one with the most pts farmed is pathetic.

Nermy · August 2014

Sharee wrote: »

3, completely remove the ability to switch campaigns. You choose a home campaign for your account, and that's it. The others might as well not exist for you.

I totally agree with this and can understand why we could guest when there were more campaigns but now we only have a few, your toon should be bound to the campaign you choose from the start and there until the end.

Though I have to say it should not be for your account, just toons from one faction. Any other toons will have to join a different campaign. I can't see this really being a problem as a I doubt anyone PvPs for all 3 factions! At least, not many!

As for AP farming, I thought you got a helluva lot more AP for defending/taking keeps or scrolls. I've had some massive AP ticks for defending before. If not, maybe it should be raised for taking and defending resources/keeps/scrolls etc. to make it more attractive.

PvP is certainly improving and I honestly think if ZoS can iron out these few problems we will have a great game!

Zadian · August 2014

Mauz wrote: »

First of all I would remove the faction hp and dps buff for having an emperor and owning the whole map. I doesn't make sense that the superior faction which outnumbers the others IN ADDITION play with buffed chars with more hp, more crit, more dmg etc.
…

It does make sense. Most players need a reward in some way. The buffs are the reward for the winning team. In addition to rewarding the winning team this team needs buffs because it has to fight against tow fractions and it's outnumbered 1 to 2. The problem starts with population imbalance and fractions that don't attack each other for some reason.

It's not the ideal reward system, but in theory it should work. Obviously it can result in extremely imbalanced situations.

Mendoze · August 2014

Syzmicke wrote: »

Surley you cant blame EP for having more players at night that the other 2 factions.

Where are the AD that was on Aurial's Bow all through the night where have they gone?

Solo and small scale people probably went to Haderus, because we got tired of lag, crashes and AOE spamming. Too bad those trains followed us there, so our brilliant plan ultimately failed

I might be elitist, but I prefer it when my skills actually do something, and I'm able to change my weapon while I'm in combat.

But anyways, is Lagblade now the campaign where there's just normal zergs, not those super annoying server crashing AOE blobs? If so, I might have to consider home campaign change.

Morticielle · August 2014

Bushrat wrote: »

I think there are a lot of good ideas out there now... here are some more:
Give more AP to killing the lead faction... the greater the lead the more AP you get from attacking them.. give less and less for attacking the underdog. This way ppl will be more inclined to attack the lead faction and not the underdog.. it will balance out over time.

Or vice versa: The greater the lead, the less point one gets for killing an enemy. Or both ways in combination. That is better than your proposal, because killing enemies who outnumber you is often not possible, so the better way is to limit the AP they get for rolling over you like a tank rolls over toddlers.

Zadian · August 2014

Just an idea:
An empty server has very strong NPC guards. Strong enough to hold a keep against an enemy raid. As more players join a fraction the number of NPC guards gets reduced and their strength reduced.
If a keep is defended by players the strength and amount of NPC guards is adjusted accordingly (waker, lower numbers).
The fraction points earned by keeps and scrolls is based on the population of the fraction holding the keeps/scrolls. So holding a lot of keeps and all scrolls while almost nobody of the own fraction is online will result in almost no gain.
Fraction points for keeps and scrolls is based on the population of the enemy fractions. If a lot of enemy players are online the fraction holding the keeps/scrolls will get more points.

That way night caping wouldn't result in a fraction getting a lead that can't be beaten as at night the rewards for having keeps and scrolls will be lower. If the server population is balanced the fractions will get the points like they do now.

Additionally getting hit by NPC guards in Cyrodiil should make damage to the equipment. Doing PvP against keeps should result in players having to repair their gear (remove that need to repair if a certain amount of enemy players are participating in the battle). This should make it less interesting to do night caps.

The problem I see with such a system is that players will probably find a way to exploit it - so there needs to be some way to prevent players form letting the NPCs do all the work.

If the campaign is full - all populations are locked - a new PvP area is opened. A smaller area with a few small keeps. Points earned there would count to the points of the home campaign. If the population of the campaign drops that PvP area is closed again (maybe Imperials take over or something like that). That would solve the problem of queues at prime time and the need to switch home campaigns just to be able to play at prime time.

Hm maybe the population differences between fractions and campaigns could be balanced out that way.
Fraction A has x more players than any other fraction in the campaign. Those x player are moved to the overflow campaign. Players from other campaigns (where they are out numbering the other fractions) will join the same overflow campaign.

Keron · August 2014

@Morticielle
Penalizing AP only works in the current system where you are able to change campaigns. If campaign hopping would be limited, you would penalize all players not bobbing in the same way as the bobbers (who are deservedly penalized), thus getting them stuck in a campaign where they can't earn AP and can't change out of.

Basically, you would force bobbing because with the AP penalty it is the only remaining way of earning a reduced but still decent amount of AP. Completely opposite effect. It may reduce pop (by making people not want to join their home campaign) but the reduced pop will be made of zergballs - unfun, to say the least.

EDIT: And the opposite has a comparable effect. If low pop factions get a bonus on AP gains, bobs would migrate to/choose underpopulated servers in the hopes of accelerating their AP farming at enemy ressources.

No, adjustments to individual player gains in any way will probably have adverse effects that outweigh their intended positive effects.

DaisyK · August 2014

lot of good ideas here.. think there's a chance they'll read it? ^^

Mauz · August 2014

DaisyK wrote: »

lot of good ideas here.. think there's a chance they'll read it? ^^

I think they read it. And I think they'll really do something. But when I look at the future plans in the sticky I doubt that it'll happen this year. I mean in 1.4 there's really nothing of the pvp issues addressed. Neither class balance nor alliance balance nor performance issues with trains. I fear that it becomes even worse in the next months cause more and more peoples get aware whats fotm, how to exploit the engine bugs and such things.

Keron · August 2014

Sorry for briefly going off topic:

Mauz wrote: »

...nor performance issues with trains...

I had hopes that their "PFX tweaks" will actually help some. Is it still as bad on PTS?

Mauz · August 2014

Keron wrote: »

Sorry for briefly going off topic:
I had hopes that their "PFX tweaks" will actually help some. Is it still as bad on PTS?

Dont know how it is on the pts. But in my understanding this just fixes fps issues. But my fps are fine its more the feedback lag. To get rid of the lag I've to nearly move half a distance to the next keep to get back acceptable latencies. It doesnt matter whether I see the train or not. The whole area around the trains are concerned.

Keron · August 2014

Mauz wrote: »

Dont know how it is on the pts. But in my understanding this just fixes fps issues. But my fps are fine its more the feedback lag. To get rid of the lag I've to nearly move half a distance to the next keep to get back acceptable latencies. It doesnt matter whether I see the train or not. The whole area around the trains are concerned.

Thanks for clarifying. I thought that it would actually adress both by not only limiting effects displayed on your individual screen but also limiting data transfer by glossing over all those effects that don't concern you (healing springs of enemy zerg comes to mind), which is quite stupid in hindsight.

But it makes sense that it is limited to graphics processor relief and not includes network traffic relief.

DaisyK · August 2014

update: hey reds, f u.. that is all

if it's not zergballs it's ganking, really taking the fun out of fighting. blues n yellows in thornblade you know what time it is

Zadian · August 2014

DaisyK wrote: »

update: hey reds, f u.. that is all

if it's not zergballs it's ganking, really taking the fun out of fighting. blues n yellows in thornblade you know what time it is

Come back at prime time EU (around 19:00 GMT +1) for a good EP spanking. Have fun capturing EP keeps, capture scrolls and kill EP players (as long as you don't kill me

). Stay away from AP farm raids and have fun.
EP currently has a big problem as many EP players simply don't care about keeps and scrolls anymore. :-/

DaisyK · August 2014

i usually go in the evening or at night.. i will join later than 19pm ^^ feeling spanky

hamon · August 2014

DaisyK wrote: »

update: hey reds, f u.. that is all

if it's not zergballs it's ganking, really taking the fun out of fighting. blues n yellows in thornblade you know what time it is

Hammer time?

DaisyK · August 2014

can't touch dis

Morticielle · August 2014

Mauz wrote: »

DaisyK wrote: »

lot of good ideas here.. think there's a chance they'll read it? ^^

I think they read it. And I think they'll really do something. But when I look at the future plans in the sticky I doubt that it'll happen this year.

Well, if they wait till 2015, there will be no PvP in TESO anymore ...

æxæ · August 2014

Funny to see AD whine about night capping because AD used to do this on Auriel's Bow all the time. Payback's a ***. Also funny I didn't see whole guilds leave Auriel's Bow back then. Why did your guilds and teams leave again? Hm.

Orchish · August 2014

As a DC player it's sad to see AD barely get above medium pop today, it seems AD have had enough of the night capping and most have left. Noticed a couple of DC guilds gone too, although we still mange to easily max out during prime time.

Out of curiosity, are the night guys Aussie or American?

Turelus · August 2014

Bushrat wrote: »

Give more AP to killing the lead faction... the greater the lead the more AP you get from attacking them.. give less and less for attacking the underdog. This way ppl will be more inclined to attack the lead faction and not the underdog.. it will balance out over time.

This isn't a terrible idea but something you should be careful doesn't become a farming mechanic.

Bushrat wrote: »

Give major point reduction to over populated groups... like was mentioned in other threads (thanks for pointing that out Keron) the greater population you have over others the less AP you get.

I don't like this idea as much because it penalises you for winning, I don't think there should be a system where it's best to be in second or last place right up until the end of the campaign.
I understand your intent but as an EP player if I was getting less AP just because my side was winning I would probably quit PVP or move campaign to one where I could afford to buy weapons/gear again.

Bushrat wrote: »

Limit the amount of times you can switch campaigns. AND if you guest in another one you get 0 AP for it.

Limited campaign switches would be a nice addition. I'm not sure on the 0 AP for guesting though, this would mean if you were in queue for your home campaign or just wanted a night elsewhere you wouldn't get any rewards at all for trying PVP elsewhere.

Bushrat wrote: »

You only get buffs in your home campaign and PvE zones.. not in other campaigns.

Confirmed that it's being looked at and planned by ZOS, not sure where they posted but it will function pretty much as you said.

Keron · August 2014

Turelus wrote: »

Bushrat wrote: »

Give major point reduction to over populated groups... like was mentioned in other threads (thanks for pointing that out Keron) the greater population you have over others the less AP you get.

I don't like this idea as much because it penalises you for winning, I don't think there should be a system where it's best to be in second or last place right up until the end of the campaign.
I understand your intent but as an EP player if I was getting less AP just because my side was winning I would probably quit PVP or move campaign to one where I could afford to buy weapons/gear again.

The discussion @Bushrat is pointing at there is about reducing faction points only, not individual player points. Exactly because of what you mentioned, @Turelus.

Also, it's not winning faction, it's overpopulated faction. Primarily as a mechanic to invalidate night capping, but in general to prevent roflstomping over low pop enemies to generate a faction lead in a campaign.

And precisely because any kind of bonus can be exploited, the proposal was to introduce a malus for topside instead of a bonus for low side.

Thing is, night capping, or "PvE in Cyrodiil" as in taking keeps from NPCs, doesn't help you getting AP. It only helps to get the boni and faction points, that then will help you get AP as soon as pop has recovered again.

That's why later on in that discussion, I also proposed to lock emperor crowning and taking scrolls from enemy temples if and only if the faction malus is at 100% (meaning no faction point gain at all, as soon as one faction has more players than both others combined). Read here plus next few comments and page 4 of this thread here for more details on what we were discussing there.