Guild store kiosks

JessieColt · August 2014

The Kiosks are not intended as a "global AH".

They are a convenience during questing.

If you see one, check out what they are selling. If they have anything you want at a price you are willing to pay, then buy the item.

Traveling all over the place trying to search and check out every single one of them seems like a total waste of time.

SoulScream · August 2014

I don't agree they are or were intended to be a convenience during questing. 99% of the time the bank is closer to use your guild merchants.

apostate9 · August 2014

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

"You make it sound like your opinion is the only one that matters."

No, I don't. I say it like its the opinion of the player base. I believe it is the opinion of the player base because there have been many, many threads and polls on this topic that in my opinion makes it painfully obvious that most people *on these forums* would prefer an auction house.

It isn't any such thing. And these forums constitute a tiny, very vocal minority of the actual player base. A global auction house does not look desirable to me, anyone I play with, or as far as I can tell the ubiquitous "they" you claim to speak for. Just a few angry people on a website.

apostate9 · August 2014

Zabalah wrote: »

I traveled to several zones and visited all the kiosks, once.

Haven't been back to any of them since, don't plan on it, won't buy from them, and I am in protest.

I deplore this system. Don't particularly care if no one agrees with me either. Just voicing my opinion.

I'd rather stab my eyes out with ice picks then endorse this system.

Please give us an auction house.

No.

Natjur · August 2014

I like the system as you can get bargins if you go looking. The biggest issue I have with world-wide AH is players 'working the market'.
Someone with a lot of gold will buy up items and market up the prices to resell.

There are already players who buy all Dreugh Wax for 2.5k and under and resell for 4k+ If there was one world-wide AH, items would move super fast. (mega server) Your search will be out of date as soon as you run it and players would work the market.

But maybe a world wide 'trade' channel would help those crafters out there looking for work.

Pele · August 2014

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Transparent competition does not kill a market, in fact it makes it thrive. People will not automatically always undercut each other, prices balance according to supply and demand.

As someone who trades daily (sometimes all I do is trade whilst playing), I can tell you with 100% certainty that you are wrong.

Several players have already pointed out the glaring problem with a global AH: The few rich will buy up everything and re-list it at inflated prices. It already happens, but it is contained and kept on a much smaller scale due to the lack of a global AH.

ESO is not the real world. There are no laws and rules against monopolies in-game. The only regulator is human conscience and behavior. If you are thinking other players will not take advantage of others and the market will thrive due to increased competition, you are sorely mistaken. Again, the few rich will easily squash any competition and resell at higher prices.

GnatB · August 2014

Basically, people that think a global "market place" would "kill the market" are people that WANT a broken market. They WANT to be able to make a killing via arbitrage. What they desperately don't want is to see the market/economy fixed. They *like* being able to buy cheaply from one guild, then take advantage of less informed suckers and selling for far more at some different guild.

Me, I want the market to be a place where I can buy what I want to buy for a decent price, and sell what I want to sell.

(Note: Yes, I'm using market place not auction house. Realistically, in most MMO's it really is just a market place without anybody really doing auctioning/bidding.)

Edit: Currently, I (as well as everybody I know) consider the current "market" a completely lost cause. I'll throw up motifs I find pretty much just to offload them, but I don't bother trying to buy anything or sell anything else. It just isn't worth it. (admittedly, generally speaking all items get deconstructed, so there isn't really much *to* sell.)

If I want to buy or sell anything worthwhile, I'll probably just use /zone.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · August 2014

I don't mind running between vendors if I'm looking for something very specific. If I want it that much, I can put the effort in, if I don't then I won't. I WOULD like to save searches between guilds, because putting the same search in four or five times in a row—and this goes for my own guilds too, mind—is very annoying. Sometimes I just want to look at Glyph prices so I know what a fair and reasonable price is, and that means checking multiple sources.

Pele · August 2014

GnatB wrote: »

Basically, people that think a global "market place" would "kill the market" are people that WANT a broken market. They WANT to be able to make a killing via arbitrage. What they desperately don't want is to see the market/economy fixed. They *like* being able to buy cheaply from one guild, then take advantage of less informed suckers and selling for far more at some different guild.

Me, I want the market to be a place where I can buy what I want to buy for a decent price, and sell what I want to sell.

Why can those who want a global AH not see the negative side? They wish for lower-priced items, yet fail to see that their ideal AH relies on others to provide such a service.

You think buying low and reselling high is bad now, imagine the magnitude it would be if there were a single central market to control instead of many small ones. A global AH is easy-mode monopoly for the rich. Your dreams of low-cost, easy-to-obtain goods is not going to happen. The only items that will be cheap are the common items that are so easily obtainable that one cannot even give them away (I'm looking at you green vet recipes).

MercyKilling · August 2014

Pele wrote: »

As someone who trades daily (sometimes all I do is trade whilst playing), I can tell you with 100% certainty that you are wrong.

Several players have already pointed out the glaring problem with a global AH: The few rich will buy up everything and re-list it at inflated prices.

Pele wrote: »

You think buying low and reselling high is bad now, imagine the magnitude it would be if there were a single central market

Except for one simple fact:

Mmmmhmm. You're forgetting one simple fact about open market free trade. Sell too high and nobody buys. Sure, they can buy up all the undercutting bids...but if that happens all people have to do is show a little willpower and not purchase the overpriced goods.

Besides...what in this game can you NOT get from drops or deconstructing items or helper/minions?

Pele · August 2014

MercyKilling wrote: »

Pele wrote: »

As someone who trades daily (sometimes all I do is trade whilst playing), I can tell you with 100% certainty that you are wrong.

Several players have already pointed out the glaring problem with a global AH: The few rich will buy up everything and re-list it at inflated prices.

Pele wrote: »

You think buying low and reselling high is bad now, imagine the magnitude it would be if there were a single central market

Except for one simple fact:

Mmmmhmm. You're forgetting one simple fact about open market free trade. Sell too high and nobody buys. Sure, they can buy up all the undercutting bids...but if that happens all people have to do is show a little willpower and not purchase the overpriced goods.

Besides...what in this game can you NOT get from drops or deconstructing items or helper/minions?

That is true, but your solution relies on other players. That is the prime factor in every argument: people. You cannot control the behavior of others.

Although, you may personally boycott inflated prices, and you may be successful in swaying others to do the same, it will have little to no impact on those sellers as there will always be other buyers to fill the gaps you and other protesters have left in the market.

GnatB · August 2014

Pele wrote: »

You think buying low and reselling high is bad now, imagine the magnitude it would be if there were a single central market to control instead of many small ones. A global AH is easy-mode monopoly for the rich. Your dreams of low-cost, easy-to-obtain goods is not going to happen. The only items that will be cheap are the common items that are so easily obtainable that one cannot even give them away (I'm looking at you green vet recipes).

Funny, every game I've played with a global market has stuff to buy at decent prices. The larger the market is, the *harder* it is to control and obtain a monopoly. Not the reverse. The megaserver thing will make it that much HARDER to do so. It won't somehow make it easier.

Oh, and while at it, throw in buy orders. That'll help prevent any such "market ownership".

edit: and even if somebody does do that, if nobody is willing to pay that rich persons inflated prices, he won't be making money. If people are, than that's how much people value that item, which means that's apparently a fair price. But at least it's an educated decision.

Pele · August 2014

It seems as though some do not grasp the concept of a few rich players controlling the market. It is happening in the game already, but on a much smaller scale because there is no global AH.

Here are some screenshots to illustrate my point.

Green vet recipes at Guild Kiosk 1:

Green vet recipes at Guild Kiosk 2:

Notice that most of the recipes in Guild Kiosk 2 are being offered by the same seller.

The above scenario would not exist if there was a global AH as any cheap recipes would be bought and resold at a higher price. Without a global AH, we have many options of obtaining items at a much lower cost.

GnatB wrote: »

Pele wrote: »

You think buying low and reselling high is bad now, imagine the magnitude it would be if there were a single central market to control instead of many small ones. A global AH is easy-mode monopoly for the rich. Your dreams of low-cost, easy-to-obtain goods is not going to happen. The only items that will be cheap are the common items that are so easily obtainable that one cannot even give them away (I'm looking at you green vet recipes).

edit: and even if somebody does do that, if nobody is willing to pay that rich persons inflated prices, he won't be making money. If people are, than that's how much people value that item, which means that's apparently a fair price. But at least it's an educated decision.

Never underestimate the power of desperation, convenience, and "I've got so much gold. lolwhut is a price tag?". The players that constitute the aforementioned will buy even if the price is inflated.

*Edited to make images smaller.

Lucifer66 · August 2014

I checked out about 20 of them and they all had overpriced trash in them. Just stuff like green recipes for 20g ea., Flint for 30g each (twice the price you can buy them for at the blacksmith). Those are pretty much good examples of what I found. So I won't even bother with them anymore.

This is what happens when you take a half measure when you should have taken a full measure. You end up with crap. I'm not going to spend the time checking each of these stupid little booths and I bet most players will do the same thing I did, look at them a few times for the novelty, then see they are a waste of time like I did.

A global AH is still the way to go.

Only greedy people who want to try and overcharge players support these stupid booths and I got no use for either.

Ser Lobo · August 2014

Lucifer66 wrote: »

Only greedy people who want to try and overcharge players support these stupid booths and I got no use for either.

As an equally dismissive and all encompasing statement, one could say: "Only lazy players who want to rip off sellers and crafters by enforcing bottom dollar with penny bid mods and hacks would support an auction house."

Both statements are false. But they sound good to those who support either side.

Kartalin · August 2014

We're still in the first week of this system, so guilds are still figuring out what they want to do and how to best do it. I play in the Aldmeri Dominion so I'll use them as an example. In the starting island, Auridon, I think we'll eventually see guild traders set up that sell more items geared towards lower level players, including the basic 9 motifs, and maybe a smaller number of luxury items in case they have a "big brother" that might want to check things out. In this sense the prices for the guild trader would be cheaper compared to: Rawl'kha, in Reaper's March. I was checking out their trading stalls last night and they had a wide variety of items but in particular they had many luxury items: higher level crafting tempers, VR 12 specialty gear, the rare motifs, purple recipes and food, and so on. Already Rawl'kha is a high traffic area for VRs, I remember seeing a lot of them hanging around there while leveling up and going through Reaper's March (for non-Dominioneers this is the final area before going to Coldharbour). So the guilds that purchased those stalls already have an idea of what they want to do with it, and I think we'll see the price of these type of stalls and locations increase a bit once people find where the players with coin to spend are hanging out. So at the moment the stalls aren't quite catering to the people in a given location to their full extent just yet.

I did really like seeing the different guild tabards on display at their respective locations.

A single flint being sold at 30g defies reason. And I saw a number of guild traders yesterday and the day before that seemed like they basically put up whatever was lying around in the guild bank hoping someone would take it off their hands. Part of that is these guild traders were still in the bidding process so it was first come first served. I don't think we'll see that type of thing after the first round of trader bidding is over and the winners in place.

Finally, it's not mandatory that we visit guild traders. We were given another option, no existing options were replaced. People will still trade stuff over zone chat as always and within guilds. But this gives people another opportunity to find what they're looking for if they're willing to put the time and effort into finding it. It is most certainly not about instant gratification.

Zanara · August 2014

Annoying to have to check individually and travel around. I'd rather have a AH or even EQ's marketplace idea. Still lots of spamming with items for sale. I also find the idea of trading guilds crazy. Belonging to 5 guilds just gets messy.

Dayel · August 2014

I like wandering about and now seeing the little kiosks. Try to buy at least something at each I come across.

Ser Lobo · August 2014

Dayel wrote: »

I like wandering about and now seeing the little kiosks. Try to buy at least something at each I come across.

Agreed. Some people like walmart, others like main street. I tend to do this same thing with all the little mom-and-pop stores in my home town.

KariTR · August 2014

milthalas wrote: »

We're still in the first week of this system, so guilds are still figuring out what they want to do and how to best do it. I play in the Aldmeri Dominion so I'll use them as an example. In the starting island, Auridon, I think we'll eventually see guild traders set up that sell more items geared towards lower level players, including the basic 9 motifs, and maybe a smaller number of luxury items in case they have a "big brother" that might want to check things out. In this sense the prices for the guild trader would be cheaper compared to: Rawl'kha, in Reaper's March.

You're forgetting that generally each zone has a 'normal' and a 'veteran' version, so guilds who cater only to a specific market will be losing half their geographical market.

The only exception to that is Craglorn, which had a very specific market and will probably continue to do so, even after the BoP reinstatement.

Phantax · August 2014

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

So I admit that I am a supporter of a global AH.

Ok so I finally found some guild kiosks.

I had to put in the search for what I was looking for 3 separate times and none of them had it.

So now I have to skip all over Tamriel, find the kiosks and do the search each time, making a mental note of who has what until I find the best deal?

People really think this is better than a global AH?

Just to find a vet12 ring with stamina at the best price.

Really?

Agreed, this guild based system is flawed and will never be on par with a truly dynamic global AH system !

Dovel · August 2014

If I see them while I am traveling around I will stop to take a look. But I won't travel out of my way to go to one. They are too scattered around, and most of them are selling white gear and junk items.

AlnilamE · August 2014

I've been checking them out whenever I see them, but I'm not looking for a very specific item or anything. Just seeing what's selling at what price.

Our guild also got a trader and I've been working on keeping my 30 slots filled. It's been interesting to see what sells and what doesn't, and comparing it to the other guild I'm in, which has twice as many members but no vendor.

I like the idea so far and I'm curious what it will look like in 30 days or so, when most of the junk people put up just to free inventory space expires.

RSram · August 2014

I think the Kiosk should be replaced with a bulletin board in the center of each town where all players buy, sell, or browse items through an AH type system, but with a limitation of 5 or 10 slots per player with 100 items per slot. The player will have to pay a percentage of the gold (of the total items auctioned) upfront; this amount will be reoccurring, like rent. If the player prices the item too high and it doesn't sell then the player loses gold. eventually the player will not be able to pay the rent and the items will be withdrawn from action. Supply and demand will determine what the median price that a player will pay for an item. Rare items will cost more than common ones.

Once poster explained that he had millions of dollars and still couldn't afford a dye that cost millions more as a reason that an AH shouldn't be use, but that is a false analogy. The problem was with the way the MMO implemented the AH, not the concept of the AH.

Instead of using an mail system, the transactions should use the same interface as the NPC vendors.

xmistidawnb14_ESO · August 2014

I agree .. running around to many kiosks as you can is ANNOYING and search mechanisms are terrible we need to be able to type in exactly what we are looking for ITEM xxxx then we could see what was there with out the eye movement of the scrolling and scrolling. That is the worst part of the game for me. HOPE this changes .. Universal AH probably will never happen unfortunately

Erock25 · August 2014

I love the guild kiosk system besides perhaps introducing a better guild store interface. I think it is awesome that an AH doesn't destroy the market. I also found it interesting for DC NA that one guild was out there buying up all of the v12 warlock rings. I checked every kiosk damn near every day and time after time I would see a <30k v12 warlock ring disappear and reappear in said guild's store for 50k+. I think it is cool that you can play the market like that and actually make money trading.

I can't wait for when established and well known trading guilds basically set up permanent shop somewhere. This kiosk thing is still in its infancy, and we all know eventually it will be known to most players that Guild A has the best prices on B and they're always in Craglorn and Guild B has the best prices on D and they always stay in Daggerfall.

I find it humorous that the global AH supporters are always using phrases like 'EVERYONE wants a global AH' and other absolutes that are just way way way wrong.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · August 2014

Works well for me. I'm pretty well self sufficient, a full slate of fairly advanced crafters, so all I need is the odd mat.

I have been going through the 5 vendors at Rawl'kha every day and I have been coming up with what I need. Scored a Deni for 30g, did not actually need it, but that's cheap. Needed and found 5 Denaras for 250g, a smokin' deal.

I go through them when I come across them in the world, I like this system.

spoqster · August 2014

I really don't understand how the introduction of a global trading post would kill the market, as some have posted in this forum. Finding out the real value of an item is part of the objective of the market. If someone is "underselling" the item, it only means that it's not worth as much as you hope it is. That IS the market.

The current system of having to run around to different kiosks is horrible, imho. It is simply a ridiculous waste of time to visit more than a few kiosks to find what you are looking for. The result is that people simply don't find what they are looking for. How is that good for anyone?

The last time I logged in to ESO I had at least 10 mails with expired items in my inbox. These were not junk items, but reasonably priced veteran level items. I'm sure there are players out there who want them. But they can't find them because these items are only in one guild store (the guild in question does not currently have a kiosk).

So in addition to not being able to buy what I want without great hassle, I can't sell the items I want to sell without great hassle. To me the economy is completely broken.

Elsonso · August 2014

spoqster wrote: »

Finding out the real value of an item is part of the objective of the market. If someone is "underselling" the item, it only means that it's not worth as much as you hope it is.

The real value of an item is what you are willing to pay for it, not what the guy next to you is willing to pay and not what people are selling it for. In ESO there is no "the market". ESO has multiple markets, each with a potentially different value for the same item.

I sell a lot of things through different traders. In some places, certain items sell for more than in other places. I sell where the previous purchases indicate sales at a higher value. A global auction house would do nothing but hurt me as a seller.

I check traders as I walk around from place to place under different characters. In this way, I get a feel for how much stuff is selling for, not just the stuff I am selling at a different trader. I don't go out of my way searching these places, I just query them as I pass by. When I go to buy something, I usually have a ballpark for how much something is selling for and I decide whether a trader is selling for a reasonable price.

Yes, I see a lot of great deals and snatch them up right away. Usually, this is for my own use, but sometimes I buy intending to resell elsewhere. Again, a global auction house would hurt me as a buyer because I will never see these lower priced deals because I might have to compete with 100,000 other players to get it.

apostate9 · August 2014

Lucifer66 wrote: »

I checked out about 20 of them and they all had overpriced trash in them. Just stuff like green recipes for 20g ea., Flint for 30g each (twice the price you can buy them for at the blacksmith). Those are pretty much good examples of what I found. So I won't even bother with them anymore.

This is what happens when you take a half measure when you should have taken a full measure. You end up with crap. I'm not going to spend the time checking each of these stupid little booths and I bet most players will do the same thing I did, look at them a few times for the novelty, then see they are a waste of time like I did.

A global AH is still the way to go.

Only greedy people who want to try and overcharge players support these stupid booths and I got no use for either.

Yeah, nobody uses them. I can't seem to figure out why I am making 35,000g a week off mine...