Thornblade (NA) has gone off the deep end

Aoe_Barbecue · August 2014

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

So does No Mercy tell their guildmates to log off when you outnumber your enemy? You know, to risk losing?

If you really wanted to do something other than moan impotently, you would roll a character on one of those underdog alliances and fight your buddies...but we know that won't happen. Its way easier just to blame someone or something else for why its not balanced.

No Mercy just about never outnumbers our enemy. Your attempt to utilize tu quoque is laughable here too. No Mercy likes PvP. We do it with 8 - 10 as readily as 18 - 20. I am not sure how you think my post is in any way "moaning" but I am sure your instinctual need to defend your ego is involved.

Oceanic EP PvWall's Chillrend in order to win with minimal competition. Oceanic AD PvWall's Thornblade in order to win with minimal competition. Most parties involved think this is a hindrance to PvP enjoyability since it removes the option to win from those who PvP the best to mere demographics. If either parties actually wanted to fight, they would find a way to do so. If this does not sound reasonable you're simply trying quite hard to be contentious for its own sake.

Whatever you do though, don't be the change you want in the world. Keep waiting for the other guy to solve all of your problems, while you complain about them, and do nothing to try and help solve those problems yourself.

This method sure is working great let me tell you.

Hey, bro. Want a Xanax?

frwinters_ESO · August 2014

its not exploiting its population changes. Large amounts of EP left Thornblade and went to Chillrend. I know this because one day i was 517th in line for emperor on the EP side then the next day i was 384th? That change was from when i logged off for the evening until the next day when i first logged on. Shows a whole mess of people dropped from the leader board. Im gussing there was an influx of AD either guests or server changes from one of the lower ones. AD was on the bottom ring for a few days, for awhile actually then all of a sudden boom they come out of the gate.

Its people shifting around again.

Pchela · August 2014

Surprise surprise, when I logged in at around 830 am EST, EP had keeps and scrolls! Happy day.

ferzalrwb17_ESO · August 2014

Malveria wrote: »

Zergs go where zergs want. And we try not to kill the fight, but when there's nothing else going on what are we meant to do? PVE in the hopes the other factions show up? Move to another server and have the same thing happen there? Tell us what you want us to do without having to bow to your wishes and just get out of your way.

Not kill the fight. Like I said. The one impulsebatspam zerg that I see constantly seems tight enough to me that it is following some kind of lead. It's not a random mess.

thewisguyub17_ESO · August 2014

I'm really torn on this issue.

No one should ever be faulted for when they are able to play. It is certainly not an "exploit" by any stretch of the word. So it would seem unfair to limit the productivity of Oceanic players.

The flip side of this is that non-Oceanic players do seem to be innately disadvantaged at the moment, also because of when the can normally play. This would suggest something to balance the situation needs to be done.

This seems like a development nightmare to me.I do not envy the plight of ZOS right now, but I would like to offer something in the realm of a possible fix:

Perhaps a tweaking to the speed of campaign points based on opposition present could be implemented. Objectives would still yield the same inherent amount of points, meaning that steam-rolling a map when there is little opposition is still markedly advantageous, the advantage just wouldn't be as quick to accrue, meaning that when prime server time rolls around, digging out of that hole is something approaching possible.

Another tweak that could be tried might be to give slightly more reward for "taking" as opposed to "keeping" objectives. This would again still maintain advantages to being active during low population time, it would just make being active during high population time more advantageous.

Basically, what I think ZOS should strive for here is a system that does not punish or hamstring playing during low populations times, but instead incentivizes, through slightly higher rewards, play during high population times.

darkdruidssb14_ESO · August 2014

Where is the under dog system? This was supposed to be in at launch. There was supposed to be a system that gave the low population factions a fighting chance against the high population factions. Wasn't this even brought up in a AMA a few months ago by ZOS stating they were still working on it?

Jaxom · August 2014

bees83 wrote: »

Surprise surprise, when I logged in at around 830 am EST, EP had keeps and scrolls! Happy day.

HAXORZZZZ!!!!!!! I demand a scrollback!!!!

Cody · August 2014

EvilEmpire wrote: »

Well, this is sad. I was thinking of coming back to ESO after taking a week off and thought I'd try this campaign since the oceanic crew of EP screwed up Chillrend so bad it wasn't really fun anymore.

It's clear there is a huge oceanic crew from EP and AD, but what is it about fighting NPCs instead of players that's so satisfying? I don't understand why both sides can't stay on the same campaign and fight each other.

I really enjoyed ESO and pvp for awhile, but I guess I'll just table this game and hope they do something about all the Guesting and Buff campaigns. Sadly, like most fixes in ESO, it's going to be too little, too late.

self edit-I made a funny joke in there, but I'm sure it wouldn't have gone over so well with the mods...

they want meaningless leaderboard ranks, PvE buffs, and to feed their own egos. Its pretty pathetic, but its hard to fix. making keeps harder to cap at a zones nighttime would be a good step towards solving this problem.

Cody · August 2014

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

I think that Red and Yellow Oceanic crews want to feel like winners more than they want PvP. That's fine. Who doesn't like winning? But if you actually want to play the game you might have to risk losing by looking for fights.

So does No Mercy tell their guildmates to log off when you outnumber your enemy? You know, to risk losing?

If you really wanted to do something other than moan impotently, you would roll a character on one of those underdog alliances and fight your buddies...but we know that won't happen. Its way easier just to blame someone or something else for why its not balanced.

<sarcasm>

Whatever you do though, don't be the change you want in the world. Keep waiting for the other guy to solve all of your problems, while you complain about them, and do nothing to try and help solve those problems yourself.

This method sure is working great let me tell you.

</sarcasm>

making an alt to fight against your own faction to try to even the odds.... if you can get entire guilds to do this, fine. go right ahead. but if you cant, then it will be a waste of time.

darkdruidssb14_ESO · August 2014

NookyZooky wrote: »

they want meaningless leaderboard ranks, PvE buffs, and to feed their own egos. Its pretty pathetic, but its hard to fix. making keeps harder to cap at a zones nighttime would be a good step towards solving this problem.

I think you mean they should change Keeps to scale off population. The higher your faction population is the harder the NPCs are at the Keeps. The lower your faction population then the NPCs start to scale down to a point.

Night time isn't a specific time for everyone.

EvilEmpire · August 2014

NookyZooky wrote: »

they want meaningless leaderboard ranks, PvE buffs, and to feed their own egos. Its pretty pathetic, but its hard to fix. making keeps harder to cap at a zones nighttime would be a good step towards solving this problem.

Yeah, but that's not exactly fair that they get punished just because they're wankers that play in the off hours on NA servers (...instead of EU servers for whatever reason). If ESO could implement a system where Keeps are harder to take if there is any population difference, then that would work, even on campaigns that are grossly outnumbered -- but as cool as that sounds, I doubt that is something that is easily coded in ESO's design. I get that games like this aren't exactly coded with simple If->Then statements.

darkdruidssb14_ESO · August 2014

EvilEmpire wrote: »

Yeah, but that's not exactly fair that they get punished just because they're wankers that play in the off hours on NA servers (...instead of EU servers for whatever reason). If ESO could implement a system where Keeps are harder to take if there is any population difference, then that would work, even on campaigns that are grossly outnumbered -- but as cool as that sounds, I doubt that is something that is easily coded in ESO's design. I get that games like this aren't exactly coded with simple If->Then statements.

It was supposed to have something like this in at launch, but it got pushed back. I remember hearing about it in a AMA a few months ago, but no idea on if they are actually going to release it.

Warhammer Online was also supposed to have a system like that.... it never came and now Warhammer Online is no more. I hope ZOS can see the importance of that kind of feature.

Ifthir_ESO · August 2014

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Your attempt to utilize tu quoque is laughable here too. No Mercy likes PvP. We do it with 8 - 10 as readily as 18 - 20. I am not sure how you think my post is in any way "moaning" but I am sure your instinctual need to defend your ego is involved.

Its not about my ego. We have a saying where I work that is if you are complaining about an issue and not offering constructive/realistic suggestions on how to fix, then you are just whining.

You complain populations aren't correctly balanced. Rather than try and help balance them yourself, you just complain. That's the definition of not being constructive, and whining.

My suggestion to you and any other person complaining about numbers is to roll another character and play against your friends. It will be a good challenge and will help balance things out. I don't have any other constructive suggestions to offer because I don't think anyone else wants to do anything to fix this. They just want the mythical "Someone else" to fix it.

It is just like in the real world, everyone complaining, no one trying to fix it.

Aoe_Barbecue · August 2014

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Its not about my ego. We have a saying where I work that is if you are complaining about an issue and not offering constructive/realistic suggestions on how to fix, then you are just whining.

You complain populations aren't correctly balanced. Rather than try and help balance them yourself, you just complain. That's the definition of not being constructive, and whining.

My suggestion to you and any other person complaining about numbers is to roll another character and play against your friends. It will be a good challenge and will help balance things out. I don't have any other constructive suggestions to offer because I don't think anyone else wants to do anything to fix this. They just want the mythical "Someone else" to fix it.

It is just like in the real world, everyone complaining, no one trying to fix it.

I am not complaining about anything. You should reread what I wrote. If you read it with the intention of actually knowing what you were reading, you might have gathered that my suggested solution to the problem is EP Oceanic and AD Oceanic discarding their overriding desire to win, which may involve zerging at fullpop while other factions are two bars or one bar, and actually go to each others' respective servers.

You may not intend to sound like it, but you come across as a contentious, angsty teenager. You quite quickly dismissed as "complaining" what was not. My suggestion to you and any other person that finds reading hard is to take an English class. Regardless of that, populations are not balanced according to time zones. (I don't even think you understand the bloody issue at hand lmao.) I am in the Pacific time zone. When I am sleeping, it's primetime in Aussie land. There are hardly any DC or EP Oceanic on Thornblade. There are quite a few EP Oceanic on Chillrend and quite a few AD Oceanic on Thornblade. The solution to the issue at hand is that these zergs stop being content to PvKeep and fight each other ... which is what I said before, isn't it?

Sounds like you need a beer mate.

Comet201 · August 2014

perhaps Fluid population caps vs static ones will fix this short term

Have the population cap adjust based off of the lower populations, for example if AD and DC have 50 players each, EP can't queue up 250 to roll over them and should be limited to approximately 50 players.
Suppose you could go the WoW route and give the lower populations buffs based on the number of competitors they have to fight, either way, as stated... some balancing needs to be addressed, cause in Thornblade, AD has been pop locked nearly 24/7 for almost 2 weeks now

Arowe_eso · August 2014

Part of the issue right now is that there aren't enough dead campaigns for each faction to hold a buff server, and since dc took BoS from ep, all the red carebears are probably bitching to their pvpers about it, and forcing them to try to hold chillrend for the buffs.

Time locking campaigns or making keep npcs harder during off hours makes PvP less fun for those involved, and they're not at any fault.

Removing haderus and bow of shadows would help this immensely, but then you could face the issue of there being no room for veterans during busy times (perhaps a weekly Friday-sunday overflow campaign could help).

Pixysticks · August 2014

I have created this graph and color coordinated factions to show population imbalance and overall dominance during peak hours, as well as specific times of day. Please refer to it to clear up any misconceptions you may have had:

Ifthir_ESO · August 2014

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

my suggested solution to the problem is EP Oceanic and AD Oceanic discarding their overriding desire to win

So you want the other guys to not want to win as much, while you retain your own desire to win.

Tell me how this self serving statement is a realistic solution to the problem?

Skwor · August 2014

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Your attempt to utilize tu quoque is laughable here too. No Mercy likes PvP. We do it with 8 - 10 as readily as 18 - 20. I am not sure how you think my post is in any way "moaning" but I am sure your instinctual need to defend your ego is involved.

Its not about my ego. We have a saying where I work that is if you are complaining about an issue and not offering constructive/realistic suggestions on how to fix, then you are just whining.

You complain populations aren't correctly balanced. Rather than try and help balance them yourself, you just complain. That's the definition of not being constructive, and whining.

My suggestion to you and any other person complaining about numbers is to roll another character and play against your friends. It will be a good challenge and will help balance things out. I don't have any other constructive suggestions to offer because I don't think anyone else wants to do anything to fix this. They just want the mythical "Someone else" to fix it.

It is just like in the real world, everyone complaining, no one trying to fix it.

Let me get this straight, you suggest those who do not like the population imbalance create a character to go to the already poplocked faction and play against their friends? This is somehow a fix ?

Pixysticks · August 2014

Who cares about winning, to be honest. It's like everyone here doesn't PvP for fun, they just play to have their faction win at the end of the campaign or they didn't enjoy themselves, and furthermore their lives are ruined; they're unsubbing; and the state of PvP as a whole is garbage; an entire race of people need to barred from playing the game-- All because they play at a different time then you do.

I honestly could care less which faction took the other's keeps during what time of day. The only impact it has on me is a month down the road it determines how much gold I get. If that's the driving factor in why you PvP, I feel bad for you.

Huntler · August 2014

Pixysticks wrote: »

Who cares about winning, to be honest. It's like everyone here doesn't PvP for fun, they just play to have their faction win at the end of the campaign or they didn't enjoy themselves, and furthermore their lives are ruined; they're unsubbing; and the state of PvP as a whole is garbage; an entire race of people need to barred from playing the game-- All because they play at a different time then you do.

I honestly could care less which faction took the other's keeps during what time of day. The only impact it has on me is a month down the road it determines how much gold I get. If that's the driving factor in why you PvP, I feel bad for you.

In the end it comes down to their egos and unfortunately people care more about their ego and winning than having fun. People quit PvP games for these reasons. Its kind of the nature of the beast.

Aoe_Barbecue · August 2014

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

So you want the other guys to not want to win as much, while you retain your own desire to win.

Tell me how this self serving statement is a realistic solution to the problem?

I can donate to your English lessons if you apply for your 501c3 and promise to try really, really hard.

My solution is that EP and AD stop PvDooring to win against NPC's and fight each other. This is what Player vs. Player is, no? Winning against no competition is hardly anything meaningful. Winning against active resistance is, on the other hand, meaningful and actual PvP.

Realistic solutions to this vary. If two populations are at one bar, the other faction can be queue limited to two bars which would not only even out faction numbers, but cause people that don't want to wait for hours to go to another server. As the bars rise for one faction as people transfer, the queue threshold would go back to normal. One solution among many. But you're still entirely missing the point because of either mental deficiency or you're trolling.

Lol you have to be trolling. Please tell me you're trolling.

Skwor · August 2014

Pixysticks wrote: »

Who cares about winning, to be honest. It's like everyone here doesn't PvP for fun, they just play to have their faction win at the end of the campaign or they didn't enjoy themselves, and furthermore their lives are ruined; they're unsubbing; and the state of PvP as a whole is garbage; an entire race of people need to barred from playing the game-- All because they play at a different time then you do.

I honestly could care less which faction took the other's keeps during what time of day. The only impact it has on me is a month down the road it determines how much gold I get. If that's the driving factor in why you PvP, I feel bad for you.

Says a person on the winning side o.O isn't that a tad dis-ingenious?

Huntler · August 2014

skwornub18_ESO wrote: »

Pixysticks wrote: »

Who cares about winning, to be honest. It's like everyone here doesn't PvP for fun, they just play to have their faction win at the end of the campaign or they didn't enjoy themselves, and furthermore their lives are ruined; they're unsubbing; and the state of PvP as a whole is garbage; an entire race of people need to barred from playing the game-- All because they play at a different time then you do.

I honestly could care less which faction took the other's keeps during what time of day. The only impact it has on me is a month down the road it determines how much gold I get. If that's the driving factor in why you PvP, I feel bad for you.

Says a person on the winning side o.O isn't that a tad dis-ingenious?

Says a person/group of people that switched to Chillrend to smash zergs running from a fight. Give me a server where the enemy PvEs the doors, see if I care, when I log on we'll smash them until they log off like we did last night.

edit: I realize you likely won't believe a word I say so this might be pointless, but I don't give 2 hoots about which side wins, I don't need the gold. I'm looking for good fights, competition, and hopefully being outnumbered because a target rich environment makes me erect.

Aoe_Barbecue · August 2014

^
You can always donate your winnings to the AoeBBQ fund. I have a fierce addiction to pots.

Huntler · August 2014

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

^
You can always donate your winnings to the AoeBBQ fund. I have a fierce addiction to pots.

Sure why n.... hey... wait a minute...

Pixysticks · August 2014

skwornub18_ESO wrote: »

Pixysticks wrote: »

Who cares about winning, to be honest. It's like everyone here doesn't PvP for fun, they just play to have their faction win at the end of the campaign or they didn't enjoy themselves, and furthermore their lives are ruined; they're unsubbing; and the state of PvP as a whole is garbage; an entire race of people need to barred from playing the game-- All because they play at a different time then you do.

I honestly could care less which faction took the other's keeps during what time of day. The only impact it has on me is a month down the road it determines how much gold I get. If that's the driving factor in why you PvP, I feel bad for you.

Says a person on the winning side o.O isn't that a tad dis-ingenious?

I stopped playing on Thorn for Chillrend, last week.

Pixysticks · August 2014

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

^
You can always donate your winnings to the AoeBBQ fund. I have a fierce addiction to pots.

I didn't get my horse (Horseysticks) until wabba 2.0 ended. I had to bolt escape everywhere for 3 months because I used all my money on pots and food and I hate PvE.

Aoe_Barbecue · August 2014

I named my horse Sarah Jessica Parker ^__^

Skwor · August 2014

Huntler wrote: »

skwornub18_ESO wrote: »

Pixysticks wrote: »

Who cares about winning, to be honest. It's like everyone here doesn't PvP for fun, they just play to have their faction win at the end of the campaign or they didn't enjoy themselves, and furthermore their lives are ruined; they're unsubbing; and the state of PvP as a whole is garbage; an entire race of people need to barred from playing the game-- All because they play at a different time then you do.

I honestly could care less which faction took the other's keeps during what time of day. The only impact it has on me is a month down the road it determines how much gold I get. If that's the driving factor in why you PvP, I feel bad for you.

Says a person on the winning side o.O isn't that a tad dis-ingenious?

Says a person/group of people that switched to Chillrend to smash zergs running from a fight. Give me a server where the enemy PvEs the doors, see if I care, when I log on we'll smash them until they log off like we did last night.

edit: I realize you likely won't believe a word I say so this might be pointless, but I don't give 2 hoots about which side wins, I don't need the gold. I'm looking for good fights, competition, and hopefully being outnumbered because a target rich environment makes me erect.

This is only the tip of the iceberg. When/If Zen bring in the imperial City and access is based on emperor-ship why should anyone stay on a server where there faction will never have access for a game area in a game that is pay to play? This is nothing compared to the forum rants about to happen.