Feedback: My first steps in Craglorn

GTech_1 · June 2014

Wow ... well, this is my first time coming to Craglorn, and my impression is simply this:

There is NOTHING here that you can explore, or do, solo.
Not a single thing.
I can't kill even a single mob, because they All come 3+ at a time and each is 2 VR levels higher than I am.
I can't leave the starting town to try out any of the abilities you folks say you want feedback on.

"Play how you want" ... [As long as you are in a group and do what we tell you to do!]
When did *that* happen?? It is NOT what I signed up for, that's for sure.

And here's the thing: I want to help you test the new systems out, give you bug reports, etc. ... generally try to be "part of the solution, rather than part of the problem", like I was back in the Beta, however ... The Craglorn design will not allow me to do that AT ALL.

Even though I love the game, and I'm up to level 48 on Live, if this is how future content will be developed, then when I get to the "Group-only-or-DIE!" content, I guess you will have to count me out. I will leave, and my Wife will leave with me.
My other two buddies that I talked into coming to ESO have already left ... they never made it past level 10.

I toughed it out.
Unfortunately, it would seem that this is what I am heading for:
Nothing that I can do in "upper tier" content that fits "how I want to play", and a horrendous Waste of my time playing up until that point.

Solo content, including end-game content, is a staple of every game in existence. Don't try to re-invent the wheel here. Learn from mistakes that others have made in the past, or be doomed to repeat them.
And while you are at it ... Keep your Word, and the Commitments you made to get us here!

"Play how you want" ... yeah, not so sure about that one now.

TL;DR: Solo content, including end-game content, is a staple of every game in existence. Don't try to re-invent the wheel.

P.S. Anyone who says "Well there's the door!" obviously does not know what it means to give Truthful feedback, and should be removed from the PTS.

yodased · June 2014

I am VR 3 and I have no issue with 2-3 mobs in Craglorn. When there are 3+ and heals it gets interesting, so I'm not sure what the problem is,

What are you playing?

GTech_1 · June 2014

Destro/Resto Sorcerer in light armor. A decent bit different than my normal character on Live.
BTW, the mobs in Craglorn are VR 11, so I'm not sure you are thinking of the same area of the zone?

ZiRM · June 2014

Craglorn wasn't meant for solo content. Not saying that that's a good thing...

yodased · June 2014

no I am not thinking of the wrong zone. Unless its a gargoyle or something I am fine for 3+ mobs as VR3

GTech_1 · June 2014

NiRN wrote: »

Craglorn wasn't meant for solo content. Not saying that that's a good thing...

Yeah, I understand that now ... but the question is: Why would ZOS do this to their customers who have been "setup to solo" through the rest of the game?

It is an open air zone after all, not a 4 man instance (which I love in this game BTW)

GTech_1 · June 2014

yodased wrote: »

no I am not thinking of the wrong zone. Unless its a gargoyle or something I am fine for 3+ mobs as VR3

So I guess the question would be: What are you playing? lol

ZiRM · June 2014

GTech_1 wrote: »

NiRN wrote: »

Craglorn wasn't meant for solo content. Not saying that that's a good thing...

Yeah, I understand that now ... but the question is: Why would ZOS do this to their customers who have been "setup to solo" through the rest of the game?

It is an open air zone after all, not a 4 man instance (which I love in this game BTW)

They are trying to keep people that actually enjoy raiding/min/maxer subscribing but they went about it in the wrong way which doesn't surprise me after seeing some of the other moves they have made.

They made other zones ghost towns because now everyone rushes to craglorn to Anomoly level leaving everyone else totally alone in other areas.

GTech_1 · June 2014

NiRN wrote: »

GTech_1 wrote: »

NiRN wrote: »

Craglorn wasn't meant for solo content. Not saying that that's a good thing...

Yeah, I understand that now ... but the question is: Why would ZOS do this to their customers who have been "setup to solo" through the rest of the game?

It is an open air zone after all, not a 4 man instance (which I love in this game BTW)

They are trying to keep people that actually enjoy raiding/min/maxer subscribing but they went about it in the wrong way which doesn't surprise me after seeing some of the other moves they have made.

They made other zones ghost towns because now everyone rushes to craglorn to Anomoly level leaving everyone else totally alone in other areas.

Wow, that's no good at all ... well, here's hoping some benevolent creature at ZOS sees this thread and gives us some confidence in the future of solo content.

yodased · June 2014

DK Destro/Restro in light armor of course. What else would you play in this game lol?

yodased · June 2014

and for the haters no i am not posting video, get in game and see for yourself if you don't believe.

GTech_1 · June 2014

yodased wrote: »

DK Destro/Restro in light armor of course. What else would you play in this game lol?

Maybe I'll try it out. I have seen the videos, and it does look like it would be time for some "Truthful feedback" lol

yodased · June 2014

FYI why this is so easy:

knockback and stun + elemental wall + volcanic rune + knockback and stun + elemental wall + green dragon blood + volcanic rune = /faceroll win for any mobs

GTech_1 · June 2014

What is your "Knockback and stun" ability, and which ability morphs into green dragon blood?

yodased · June 2014

knockback and stun is destructive touch morphed into destructive clench. Knocks them back about 20m and stuns them for 4 seconds. You simply put down your frontal AOE, then let them run at you and knock them back into it.

With this I get my standard up about every 3rd pull which in and of itself if /faceroll lol

green dragon blood is the self heal from DKs, the one you see people turn black and just their heart is showing.

GTech_1 · June 2014

Thanks for the info. I just pulled up the DK skill calculator to check it out. From the looks of it, this would be for single-target setups though, correct?

GTech_1 · June 2014

I mean: Destro Clench is single target, right?

Sihnfahl · June 2014

GTech_1 wrote: »

What is your "Knockback and stun" ability, and which ability morphs into green dragon blood?

He's talking Destructive Clench, since DKs using a Destro staff exclusively use Fire (thanks to DK fire synergies)

We do have a ranged knockdown (stonefist and its morphs)...

And Dragonblood morphs into GDB.

yodased · June 2014

nope its really a DOT AOE build.

Basically goes like this:

1. Identify healers
2. Identify threats
3. Stun healers
4. Kill threats
5. Kill healers
6. Kill treash

You do this by using your destro touch on the healer, then volcanic rune on the archer/caster then elemental wall/pulsar. healer gets up, knock his ass back down. Normal attack the threats this entire time. If trash damages you, dragon blood back to health.

Once standard is up, drop and watch em die.

If you take care of the heals then the threats first, all the content is easy.

Triage and movement are the two most important factors of this game.

GTech_1 · June 2014

Well, looks like I'll be trying out a DK then. The "Triage and movement = win", rather than the standard "rotationZ or nothin'!" you see in other MMOs is what truly keeps me interested.

... and come to think of it, maybe my Sorc that I had problems with just needs a bit more CC-Love.

yodased · June 2014

just FYI this char started out as heavy armor/stam 1h+shield in beta. Then went to heavy arm/mag 2h+resto after tank nerf, then went to destro/restro when saw ulti nerf coming.

There is little reason to want to play anything other than a destro/restro light armor fire DK if you want to actually be able to do anything fun by yourself or with small groups.

Is this sad? Yes, but the game is so much fun I realize that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one or the few. I live long and prosper.

keto3000 · August 2014

Wow! I really learned a lot from this thread! this is my first MMO, I'm playing an Altmer Sorcerer, dps caster/healer hybrid (just made VR1) on live, so I thought I'd try the PTS to see what's in store for me when I graduate to Craglorn. Had the same problems & discouragement faced by OP ( no one around to group with) upon solo attempts in Craglorn, but after reading @yodased responses, I will go back and try his suggested skill load out on my bars and make a go fro it! Thanks all

CoolsHisHands · August 2014

Describing a specific build that allows you to solo in Craglorn doesn't really address the issues raised in the OP. If everyone rolls Destro/Resto DKs that's not letting people "play how you want."

Craglorn isn't solo content, it's group content. If you feel that's a barrier sitting between you and VR10 -> VR12 XP, I'd direct you to the various group grinding spots around Craglorn which have open groups running pretty much 24/7.

GTech_1 wrote: »

"Play how you want" ... [As long as you are in a group and do what we tell you to do!]
When did *that* happen?? It is NOT what I signed up for, that's for sure.

Craglorn is not a mandatory zone. If you don't like grouping, there are other ways to level to VR12. Not allowing you to do some content unless you're in a group is not abandoning the "play how you want" principle.

Were you also complaining about the 4-man dungeons which existed at release?

GTech_1 wrote: »

And here's the thing: I want to help you test the new systems out, give you bug reports, etc. ... generally try to be "part of the solution, rather than part of the problem", like I was back in the Beta, however ... The Craglorn design will not allow me to do that AT ALL.

Now you're trying to imply that not allowing you to do the content solo is somehow bad for ZoS, because they won't get your valuable feedback! Newsflash: ZoS designed Craglorn with groups as the guiding principle. So they don't care about your solo experience.

GTech_1 wrote: »

Even though I love the game, and I'm up to level 48 on Live, if this is how future content will be developed, then when I get to the "Group-only-or-DIE!" content, I guess you will have to count me out. I will leave, and my Wife will leave with me.
My other two buddies that I talked into coming to ESO have already left ... they never made it past level 10.

I hear threatening to leave the game always works in getting changes implemented quickly.

GTech_1 wrote: »

Solo content, including end-game content, is a staple of every game in existence.

First off... have you played every game in existence? No? Second: Maybe you're right in that most games have solo content, but solo "end-game" content? I could name dozens of MMOs that have none. Once the main story is done, everything meaningful left is "group" content: PvP, Trials, etc.

If you don't like Craglorn, and prefer solo content, I'm not going to "show you the door". I'm just going to recommend you stay out of Craglorn. Simple.

BoloBoffin · August 2014

I've been able to handle up to 3 mobs in the open air. I'm a sorc with a pet that tanks for me, and I use Encase, but I get them down. I was going to try a 5 mob group next.

And I went to VR12 in the main zones and PvP. No, I did some Lower Craglorn delving with my guild as well. But I could have done it without the Craglorn delves.

It's clear to me why they are concentrating on the grouping community first and foremost. When you've become part of a regular group that meets on ESO, you're not likely to leave. You keep paying. The developers are helping establish one of their core draws with the Craglorn emphasis on group questing. And it works - I do the night shift, so I hang out with an Aussie/Kiwi guild that plays when I play. Hanging out killing all the things with them is a big part of my ESO experience.

The first release of the game was three different tracks of solo material that encouraged grouping and then the PvP area which almost requires it. Having tuned that up, they're now going for grouping exclusively, and then they will give solo folks an update with Wrothgar. From my perspective, they're progressing just fine in the game. But then again, I don't mind grouping up for the group content. And I have a main and seven alts where I try the different builds and come at the same content from different angles. I like that. So I guess I'm the target demographic here.

Dominoid · August 2014

Ummm . . . is the complaint seriously that a zone specifically designed for four-man content can't necessarily be soloed? No kidding? How odd.

First 16 Solo-PVE zones to 1 Group-PVE zones in an MMO no less.

Elloa · August 2014

There is NOTHING here that you can explore, or do, solo.
Not a single thing.

I would like remind poeple that Craglorn, and the Adventure zone concept had never been intended to be a soloable content. This had always be aimed to be a open world group content.

Are poeple whinning that they can not solo a Dungeon? NO. They would be whinning if they could, because that would mean the content is waaaaaaaay to easy.

Craglorn is 4man GROUP content. Period. If you can solo it, duo it, or trio it, good for you. But it's intended and should present challenging content for a full normal group with 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 DPS. If the content is NOT challenging for a 4 man group, then it's too easy.

Now, we can discuss if Zenimax should focus on offering SOLO end game content. But that's another discussion. Craglorn is NOT SOLO, and should not be soloable. It's an adventure zone and should be considered as a DUNGEON, which happen to be open, and with quest.

Unmai · August 2014

Personally I like the idea of open world group content as long as it isn't mandatory. I don't fully understand the idea that people want to solo an MMO since for me the whole reason to play an MMO over a single player game is the interaction aspect, so the idea of marching across and open world in a group of friends appeals to me more than specific dungeon grinding with friends.

eliisra · August 2014

Ogriv wrote: »

Personally I like the idea of open world group content as long as it isn't mandatory. I don't fully understand the idea that people want to solo an MMO since for me the whole reason to play an MMO over a single player game is the interaction aspect, so the idea of marching across and open world in a group of friends appeals to me more than specific dungeon grinding with friends.

I like group content as well. But it's not working for Craglorn.

No one is doing the quest-lines. There's players grinding boss/anom to reach VR12, occasionally seeing a delve once for the skyshard. People with the right light/staff build and right class can do trials. Other than that Craglorn is empty. Huge waste of developing resources.

The effort it takes to create and find a group in Craglorn, than complete the quest-line, isn't proportional to the reward. So it's close to impossible to find 3 other players needing and willing to do the same quest objective. No one bothers.

Really hope they wont make these stupid mistakes again with upper Craglorn. It's not beneficial for the game. Why designing these group quests than no one wants to do(or cant)?

Adventure zones should come with something like 50% solo content, giving people something to do when they cant join or make groups. Than increase the reward and the difficulty for instanced 4-man content. Add more dye achievements and titles, better loot than a green box of exotic light armor lol.

Unmai · August 2014

@eliisra could it be also that there simply aren't enough people ready to take on Craglorn? I assume that all those ready for it on realese cleared it asap and now there is a void of players still to clear it other than grinding. I'm just speculating. Also another speculation is the general mentality of many ESO players is one of solo play such as yourself. Since they also wish to solo play then they also won't be looking to group up for play. I think this mentality is a result of many players being previous Elder Scroll players prior top ESO rather than being MMOers, again I'm just speculating.

GTech_1 · August 2014

This thread was necroed.

I originally posted this back in early June, almost 3 months ago, back when very little was known about Craglorn.
The PTS templates were also bugged at the time, forcing testers to use VR 9 characters, rather than VR 12.

I do indeed know that Craglorn is "group" content.

However, your average ESO player did not know then, and still does not know now, that Craglorn is "group" content.

Nothing in the game gives the player that info, except the first time you go out and get your face ripped off.

These were my first impressions of Craglorn. All of the info still stands, save one thing:

I took my VR 3 Altmer Sorcerer out to Craglorn a few nights ago on the live server ... I soloed dunerippers, and the double / triple elite atronoch pulls.

My sorcerer on live is in full crafted set gear with ideal enchants for my build, crafted triple effect potions, and epic food.

The PTS templates NEED to have all race / class combos *and* crafting unlocked to get accurate "real world" testing done.

There was simply no comparison between the PTS and live experiences.