The Unbreakable CC - Help Thread

JackDaniell · August 2014

This thread is dedicated to helping Zenimax fix the issues around the current CC system. This thread is also to help other players with CC issues. Please refrain from posting complaints that have no constructive value.

Ok, so the unbreakable CC. As we know it still exists, and Zenimax is aware of it. The issue here seems to be that they do not know how to fix it. Now I do not blame them for it not being fixed, programing is a difficult thing, as well as determining what causes this CC. The point of this thread is to provide as much information as we can about it. Hopefully the information we provide can help save them time in determining what the cause is and the issues are around the CC.

A backstory on me: I am Jack, I play a Templar and have been playing this game since mid beta. I am the guild leader of Legend, and one of the things that my guild does when not dueling is test game mechanics ect. on each other. One of the things we have tested allot is the unbreakable CC.

Some of the tests I have done and rigorously confirmed regarding unbreakable CC:

- Wielding a Bow - I have spent time since 1.3 playing with multiple weapons and not once did I experience unbreakable CC until I equipped a bow. For some reason wielding a bow (maybe this is only for Templars) made me very susceptible to unbreakable CC. Now people did not have to stack a root or snare on me to make it unbreakable. Any CC could trigger this. The worst culprit was crystal shards, not only was this CC unbreakable for me ~90% of the time, but it also had a small chance to desync my game after I got up, not allowing me to use any skills or change weapons (dodge and movement still worked).

-Type of armor - This seamed to have no effect on unbreakable cc. Cloth, med and heavy all could break CC about the same.

- Client Latency (high ping) - Currently testing.

- Stun and knockdown - Needs more testing, please share.

- Fear and immobilize - Needs more testing please share.

I will add information to the original post if people post it and my tests confirm it. Please help Zenimax fix this issue!

Dudis · August 2014

From what i can tell from the recieving end of this, the most common thing seem to be that you got hit by two CCs at the same time, one soft and one hard (root+knockdown for example).

I've wanted to do some testing but can't reliably do so since there are no duels in the game and I can't know for sure if the person I try it on just didn't press the button.

Animal_Mother · August 2014

My bow wielding Templar experiences the same as your results indicate. I have been repeatedly hit CC (especially Talons) and broken out only to have CC immediately reapplied. I'm quick to blame Talons as it's DOT appears in the death recap - but looking back all CC has reapplied immediately after breaking it while using a bow.

I've also suddenly noticed that snares seem to affect me more using the bow, than say a 2-hander, to the point of having to repeatedly use Cleansing Ritual to try to clear them.

JackDaniell · August 2014

heinsjb14_ESO wrote: »

My bow wielding Templar experiences the same as your results indicate. I have been repeatedly hit CC (especially Talons) and broken out only to have CC immediately reapplied. I'm quick to blame Talons as it's DOT appears in the death recap - but looking back all CC has reapplied immediately after breaking it while using a bow.

I've also suddenly noticed that snares seem to affect me more using the bow, than say a 2-hander, to the point of having to repeatedly use Cleansing Ritual to try to clear them.

I ran a bow and 2 handed build and I found that when CC became unbreakable with my bow equipped, I could still swap to me 2 hander and break CC then. When I would return to my bow CC was again unbreakable.

IcyDeadPeople · August 2014

I have found that it seemed to occur more frequently when dueling a player from Oceania (I am based in NA), and on the occasions when their Fear CC was unbreakable, they also experienced my Obsidian Shard CC as being unbreakable.

Both of us also experienced occasions when our health would appear to stay full and then suddenly go to zero, as though some of the enemy player's attacks were lagging and then being executed by the server all at once.

JackDaniell · August 2014

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

I have found that it seemed to occur more frequently when dueling a player from Oceania (I am based in NA), and on the occasions when their Fear CC was unbreakable, they also experienced my Obsidian Shard CC as being unbreakable.

Interesting, we will defiantly test this soon.

JackDaniell · August 2014

Dudis wrote: »

From what i can tell from the recieving end of this, the most common thing seem to be that you got hit by two CCs at the same time, one soft and one hard (root+knockdown for example).

I've wanted to do some testing but can't reliably do so since there are no duels in the game and I can't know for sure if the person I try it on just didn't press the button.

We will continue to test this more for you. The only problem with this hypothesis is that it has been very inconsistent, so I am suspicious that another factor is the culprit.

Rylana · August 2014

The issue is entirely a latency to client issue.

Someone above hit the nail on the head when talking about Oceanic dueling.

What happens is the delay between clients, the server, and the ISP desyncs the client.

One effect cancels the other in transit, so the client cant release either one.

You never see unbreakable CC in situations where both clients are running under 40 ping to the server. (under about 80 combined latency)

You see it more and worse as combined latency climbs over 200, and it is almost guaranteed to happen if latency exceeds 500 (one client at 100 and one at 400, for example)

JackDaniell · August 2014

Rylana wrote: »

The issue is entirely a latency to client issue.

Someone above hit the nail on the head when talking about Oceanic dueling.

What happens is the delay between clients, the server, and the ISP desyncs the client.

One effect cancels the other in transit, so the client cant release either one.

You never see unbreakable CC in situations where both clients are running under 40 ping to the server. (under about 80 combined latency)

You see it more and worse as combined latency climbs over 200, and it is almost guaranteed to happen if latency exceeds 500 (one client at 100 and one at 400, for example)

Thank you Rylana! I will make some high ping duels happen tonight and post some numbers as soon as I can!

Krinaman · August 2014

I also suspect that lag has a lot to do with it. Every time the server starts lagging breaking CC is really hit or miss.

Urry · August 2014

I use Bow and am an expat currently living overseas.

I too constantly get unbreakable CC. It happens when I get knocked down by just about anything. Sometimes I don't get knocked down, but cant move (prob. latency ). I play during pm NA time. So a number of my opponents would most likely be living in NA.

I noticed some of the names of the people that lock me down nearly 100% of the time. Feel bad now that I always thought they were knowingly doing it. Maybe this is a latency issue. It could be those players are in NA.

Could it be a combination of the two? Bow and latency. I know the other players I group with don't get locked down nearly as much as me, and they also live overseas. Many of them don't use the bow. Most of them play during the am NA time though.

pitdemon_ESO · August 2014

People are right about the 2 CC's at the same time.
IMO it's when you get another CC while your character is in the Knockdown/Knockback animation from the 1st one.

Invasion (KB) + Talons is well known and documented
Spear (Templar KB) + Jabs is also well known and documented. I've even seen it in certain people's PvP videos

Some other ones I've experienced:
2x Ambush at the same time (NB Knockdown)
Charge (KB) + Bolt Escape (pre-BE nerf I fought a guy that did Charge>BE>Hard cast Crystal Shards. I was stun-locked the entire fight at full stam. Not fun)

Lava_Croft · August 2014

Stun followed by Crowd Control = Watch yourself die helplessly.

IKilled007 · August 2014

Great post. Keep up the good work.

Anazasi · August 2014

I think while this issue is rather annoying the real problem is by the time you get up your stamina pool is empty from attempting to break the CC. I have just started doing nothing when I'm CC'd I lay on the ground and pray I don't die there. I have found that when the cc end's 4 seconds later I stand up my stamina pool is good and I roll out heal and proceed to survive. I know a lot of players who complain about this and then of course they complain about their stamina disappearing. I would tend to look along that path or mechanical programming to see if this could be traced, corrected or altered so as to fix the issue. I also play a Templar and my stamina is precious.

Krinaman · August 2014

Here's how you fix it Zenimax:

- change the break mechanic for all CC to be the same.

Done

You are welcome...

david.haypreub18_ESO · August 2014

Krinaman wrote: »

Here's how you fix it Zenimax:

- change the break mechanic for all CC to be the same.

Done

You are welcome...

I can't believe they haven't done this yet... it would fix so much that is broken.

dsalter · August 2014

i find it mostly happens with a bow equipped as well as when being attacked by a bow

Vencenzo · August 2014

Been playing with bow lately.. Firing off a scattershot and being rooted or cced before the jumpback takes place seems to be causing most of it. Not having a issue after I pulled off scattershot and replaced it with volcanic rune.

Some insight to recent ava pvp. I know you've missed alot of this jack cause you spend less time in 1vx.

Any immobilize+kd causes unbreakable cc. All classes are using it. Trap beast+any knockdown or knock up is really easy.

Causing knock down and toss up at exactly the same time causes a player to slide around on the ground for 30 seconds.

Projectiles with cc attached casted prior to the application of immovable, ignores immovable.

Rolling out of a large amount of projectiles causes your character to be unable to do anything until it's caught up on it's sidestep animations.

Missing on all 6 hits of a steel tornado with blinding light on you causes your character to chain 6 off balances in a row, leaving you wobbling around for about 12 seconds.

Sharee · August 2014

Rylana wrote: »

The issue is entirely a latency to client issue.

Someone above hit the nail on the head when talking about Oceanic dueling.

What happens is the delay between clients, the server, and the ISP desyncs the client.

One effect cancels the other in transit, so the client cant release either one.

You never see unbreakable CC in situations where both clients are running under 40 ping to the server. (under about 80 combined latency)

You see it more and worse as combined latency climbs over 200, and it is almost guaranteed to happen if latency exceeds 500 (one client at 100 and one at 400, for example)

I think they should change CC break to be entirely client-controlled.

That means, not 1> i use cc break, 2> server allows it if i have enough stamina, 3> i stand up, but
1> i use cc break, 2> i stand up, 3> server checks whether this was legal(i had enough stamina)

Vencenzo · August 2014

Nothing like that can ever be on the client without people cheating.

What they need to do is make knock down remove all other cc affects when applied.

Immovable vs projectiles casted prehand is a latency issue and doesn't happen on good days. The immobile+kd is a matter of prioritization of status effects and the amount it checks. If you weren't able to break free from eclipse it's application + kd would cause unbreakable cc as well.

Sharee · August 2014

Vencenzo wrote: »

Nothing like that can ever be on the client without people cheating.

That's true, but any cheating can be easily detected after - the server knows how much stamina was available, and whether it should have been possible to use CC break or not. It will just do the check later, instead of holding up the CC breaker execution due to lag. Any detected inconsistency would trigger a red flag, several of them would alert a CSR, and eventually get the wannabe cheater banned.

Garion · August 2014

Invasion and talons makes me want to swear lots.

Lava_Croft · August 2014

Garion wrote: »

Invasion and talons makes me want to swear lots.

Can't wait for the day all these S&B scrubs meet their maker because their Invasion + Talons *** doesn't work anymore. I bet it will be just as glorious as the people Shield Bashing after that got fixed. The joy!

Mauz · August 2014

Unbreakable CC for me mostly happen with trains. It might be a combination of sorc and dk cc which is producing this. When these classes cc me at the same time its very often that I cant break out. But I'm not sure about this just my impression. Some trains seem to expoits this...cant judge whether intentionally or not but it's very often I cant break free if I get into the way of a train.