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Would you like seperate "For Looks" armor slots?
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milesrodneymcneely2_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Heck yes! I love playing dress up and I'm not afraid to flaunt it!OMG. Why is it that EVERY...MMORPG...IN...THE...BOOK has low-level armor that looks ten times better than the end-game stuff?
Is there an unwritten rule among MMO developers that states they MUST push gamers to look like clowns at endgame or they don't get paid?
Sheesh...
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Tootall2186✭✭✭Why can't we just wear what we want and pick and choose any armor passive from any line and get the said passives. Maxing at the current 5/5 passives useable for armor...?milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »
You're beating a dead bush. Lol a few people have brought it up about pvp but seem to think someone's armor actually means something. Being able to use costumes in pvp already bring their side of the discussion to an end. Call it "elistism", or what have you. But some people like to act like they're the best thing since sliced bread. Yes you attorney. You know exactly how you're coming off so don't try and act coy.
Armor looks should be just for that. People shouldn't have to wear "x" armor weight just so they can compete. We want to look good too. Why do you think so many people are achievement hunting now for dyes. The easiest fix is to give us dedicated appearance slots for each piece of armor just like the costume slot currently.3 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Potato!milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »
So we have a problem, and your solution is to make it worse by allowing even more of the same issue? Most people thankfully do not use disguises still, and I would like to see them disabled in PVP at some point. Not add more....Edited by Attorneyatlawl on August 25, 2014 5:02AM-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
Zarman✭✭✭Heck yes! I love playing dress up and I'm not afraid to flaunt it!I voted yes, because my main toon wants a cape. And while im here i want metal shields2 -
guybrushtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Heck yes! I love playing dress up and I'm not afraid to flaunt it!Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Because it's a more complex system programmatically to implement and that has a cost, as well as it having a gameplay impact in player vs. player scenarios with target identification and role identification during combat.
The latter part went right out the window when they introduced full disguises, and for the former, I'm not quite sure what exactly you mean by that?
Technically, I'm fairly certain that implementing appearance slots at an early stage is most likely less of a hassle then doing what they did already with craftable items of different varieties and their morphig through imp edition for example. Tacking it on retroactively might or might not be a real pain for sure, that depends on existing code, but conceptually it is really easy.
At this point thogh, I doubt they'll bastardize their own fairly expanded existing customization option and forget about crafting. Although I'd like it.2 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Potato!guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Because it's a more complex system programmatically to implement and that has a cost, as well as it having a gameplay impact in player vs. player scenarios with target identification and role identification during combat.
The latter part went right out the window when they introduced full disguises, and for the former, I'm not quite sure what exactly you mean by that?
Technically, I'm fairly certain that implementing appearance slots at an early stage is most likely less of a hassle then doing what they did already with craftable items of different varieties and their morphig through imp edition for example. Tacking it on retroactively might or might not be a real pain for sure, that depends on existing code, but conceptually it is really easy.
At this point thogh, I doubt they'll bastardize their own fairly expanded existing customization option and forget about crafting. Although I'd like it.
The first part is basically saying that what you describe of it being "copy-paste" couldn't be further from the truth in terms of the resources involved. If someone could simply conceptually think up a system in their programming work and have it exist with ease like you act, they'd probably be the richest man on Earth. The conceptual difficulty has absolutely no relation to the effort involved.
The second part is not out the window at all because A.) very few use said disguises, and B.) that issue would be entirely fixed by simply disabling being able to equip disguises in Cyrodiil and the Imperial City, which they actually already had implemented during beta but randomly changed to allow them at some point due to complaints along your lines. There is no "bastardization" of the crafting system by disabling disguises in Cyrodiil, in fact that would only bolster their existing customization by showing it off more and not hiding the existing styles and armor designs
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Further worsening the problem by adding a full-on cosmetic system would just be a kick in the teeth to the very enjoyable PVP in this game and lower the overall skill cap just another notch. The right direction is not to throw the entire thing out the window by doing that, but rather to go the other way and just disable the small handful of costumes that hurt Cyrodiil while inside there or the Imperial City.
EDIT: Fixed the "B" point turning into a "sunglasses smiley" mark.Edited by Attorneyatlawl on August 25, 2014 5:37AM-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
milesrodneymcneely2_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Heck yes! I love playing dress up and I'm not afraid to flaunt it!
Couldn't agree more.Tootall2186 wrote: »milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »
You're beating a dead bush. Lol a few people have brought it up about pvp but seem to think someone's armor actually means something. Being able to use costumes in pvp already bring their side of the discussion to an end. Call it "elistism", or what have you. But some people like to act like they're the best thing since sliced bread. Yes you attorney. You know exactly how you're coming off so don't try and act coy.
Armor looks should be just for that. People shouldn't have to wear "x" armor weight just so they can compete. We want to look good too. Why do you think so many people are achievement hunting now for dyes. The easiest fix is to give us dedicated appearance slots for each piece of armor just like the costume slot currently.Edited by milesrodneymcneely2_ESO on August 25, 2014 5:41AM3 -
milesrodneymcneely2_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Heck yes! I love playing dress up and I'm not afraid to flaunt it!
OR, you could just play to the best of your ability and stop blaming your losses on an artificial crutch.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »So we have a problem, and your solution is to make it worse by allowing even more of the same issue? Most people thankfully do not use disguises still, and I would like to see them disabled in PVP at some point. Not add more....
Character/ability animations are a MUCH more specific cue than the set of clothes you're expecting your opponent to stand there and model for you while you figure out what you're going to do.
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Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Potato!Tootall2186 wrote: »milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »
You're beating a dead bush. Lol a few people have brought it up about pvp but seem to think someone's armor actually means something. Being able to use costumes in pvp already bring their side of the discussion to an end. Call it "elistism", or what have you. But some people like to act like they're the best thing since sliced bread. Yes you attorney. You know exactly how you're coming off so don't try and act coy..
Again, that you feel I'm being rude or think I'm being elitist by simply stating basic game mechanics here in MMO pvp isn't bolstering your argument whatsoever here and actually is just degrades yours, actually, as you show you aren't paying attention to what's being written as counter-points or just plain and simple are trying to divert the discussion as you feel I am actually correct but don't want it to be the case. I find it rather insulting and basically a pretty poor personal attack to be labeling someone an elitist for that and claiming they are acting coy, but whatever floats your boat.
As far as "armor meaning something", I already have stated this about 3-4 times in this thread as to why it does, and that disguises are not used by most people currently and additionally should simply be disabled to resolve the issue.-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
Smiteye✭✭✭milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »
Couldn't agree more.Tootall2186 wrote: »milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »
You're beating a dead bush. Lol a few people have brought it up about pvp but seem to think someone's armor actually means something. Being able to use costumes in pvp already bring their side of the discussion to an end. Call it "elistism", or what have you. But some people like to act like they're the best thing since sliced bread. Yes you attorney. You know exactly how you're coming off so don't try and act coy.
Armor looks should be just for that. People shouldn't have to wear "x" armor weight just so they can compete. We want to look good too. Why do you think so many people are achievement hunting now for dyes. The easiest fix is to give us dedicated appearance slots for each piece of armor just like the costume slot currently.
He is completely correct and you guys have yet to even talk about his argument other than labeling him an elitist.1 -
milesrodneymcneely2_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Heck yes! I love playing dress up and I'm not afraid to flaunt it!Okay, help me out here.
I'm not saying that looking at a gear set doesn't make it easier to figure out what your opponent might do.
What I want to know is why you're arguing that it's an integral part of PvP in this game.
Are you seriously fighting enemies that are running around out of stealth long enough for you to inspect their gear?
Are you really fast enough to figure out what your opponent is wearing and how to counter it between the time they open from stealth and the time you're able to activate your "Break Free"?
Is your visual acuity so great that you can peer into a zerg, filter all of the particle effects, and get a good solid look at the gear of a player that is moving, dodging, and slinging abilities all in a desperate effort to stay alive?
SERIOUSLY: Are you saying that it's easier for you to inspect a player's gear (and that you have time to do so) than it is for you to watch his/her animations and ability effects, and adjust your strategy accordingly on the fly? Because - if not - your reaction time simply isn't good enough to expect anything other than disaster in Cyrodiil. Your assertion that inspecting gear is critical to your success in PvP makes literally no sense to me, whatsoever.3 -
Tootall2186✭✭✭Why can't we just wear what we want and pick and choose any armor passive from any line and get the said passives. Maxing at the current 5/5 passives useable for armor...?milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »Okay, help me out here.
I'm not saying that looking at a gear set doesn't make it easier to figure out what your opponent might do.
What I want to know is why you're arguing that it's an integral part of PvP in this game.
Are you seriously fighting enemies that are running around out of stealth long enough for you to inspect their gear?
Are you really fast enough to figure out what your opponent is wearing and how to counter it between the time they open from stealth and the time you're able to activate your "Break Free"?
Is your visual acuity so great that you can peer into a zerg, filter all of the particle effects, and get a good solid look at the gear of a player that is moving, dodging, and slinging abilities all in a desperate effort to stay alive?
SERIOUSLY: Are you saying that it's easier for you to inspect a player's gear (and that you have time to do so) than it is for you to watch his/her animations and ability effects, and adjust your strategy accordingly on the fly? Because - if not - your reaction time simply isn't good enough to expect anything other than disaster in Cyrodiil. Your assertion that inspecting gear is critical to your success in PvP makes literally no sense to me, whatsoever.
Thank you. Exactly my point. But even still attorney wants to act like they are the know all on pvp and what makes a "good player".
And to the person saying we haven't discussed attorneys point, we have a few times. This being the final time.
Your reaction time and ability to change tactics on the fly and the ability to think ahead of your opponent are what make a good pvper. Not seeing what armor they have on. Like I said, armor should be for looks and looks alone. But again that's an entirely different discussion. The easiest fix, again, is separate costume slots per piece.2 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Potato!milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »Okay, help me out here.
I'm not saying that looking at a gear set doesn't make it easier to figure out what your opponent might do.
What I want to know is why you're arguing that it's an integral part of PvP in this game.
Are you seriously fighting enemies that are running around out of stealth long enough for you to inspect their gear?
Are you really fast enough to figure out what your opponent is wearing and how to counter it between the time they open from stealth and the time you're able to activate your "Break Free"?
Is your visual acuity so great that you can peer into a zerg, filter all of the particle effects, and get a good solid look at the gear of a player that is moving, dodging, and slinging abilities all in a desperate effort to stay alive?
SERIOUSLY: Are you saying that it's easier for you to inspect a player's gear (and that you have time to do so) than it is for you to watch his/her animations and ability effects, and adjust your strategy accordingly on the fly? Because - if not - your reaction time simply isn't good enough to expect anything other than disaster in Cyrodiil. Your assertion that inspecting gear is critical to your success in PvP makes literally no sense to me, whatsoever.
Thanks for more personal insults as to my skill level, but that is hardly an issue for me
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The situations you describe are extremely rare:
-"Enemies fighting out of stealth to see their gear" I pop enemies with my magelight and usually spot them from quite a distance away by attacking them after knowing they are there thanks to a stealth detection potion or having seen them fighting as I approach the area. It only takes me a split-second to tell at a glance what type of gear they are wearing by visual as I get in position.
-"Acuity so great to see thru particle effects" I already stated that zerg combat was the lone exception to this but even then you end up with quite a number of microcosms of small-scale pockets during a large battle. It is hardly as if 200 people all stack into a ball in a 2-meter radius during them, so yes, when my guild groups or others I run with in small-scale are taking out flanks and pushing in from the side, I prioritize my target order and likely movement route during the attack by quickly telling what an enemy's role is by their positioning and armor worn (whether type or specific sets in some cases such as Aether which indicates to me they are likely not a completely random pug to accrue a few pieces of that and wear them in PVP, for example).
-"Are you kidding? How is it easier to see their armor than tell during a fight?" I already addressed this as well previously. Target identification is extremely important as you engage prior to a fight and lets you know who the healers are, who the damage dealers are, and where each one is as the initial push happens. This can provide a varying advantage during and at the beginning of a fight as you know what's likelier to hit you while engaging.
So yes, at higher levels of play, visuals are extremely important, same as clean cast animations and spell effects to success.-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.0 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Potato!Tootall2186 wrote: »Your reaction time and ability to change tactics on the fly and the ability to think ahead of your opponent are what make a good pvper. Not seeing what armor they have on. Like I said, armor should be for looks and looks alone. But again that's an entirely different discussion. The easiest fix, again, is separate costume slots per piece.
Now you're just contradicting yourself, proving my argument FOR me. I literally just got done saying that "ability to change tactics on the fly" and "think ahead" are important parts of being a good pvp'er. You obviously have no interest in reading anything I have written, and have not done so either.-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.0 -
Smiteye✭✭✭milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »SERIOUSLY: Are you saying that it's easier for you to inspect a player's gear (and that you have time to do so) than it is for you to watch his/her animations and ability effects, and adjust your strategy accordingly on the fly? Because - if not - your reaction time simply isn't good enough to expect anything other than disaster in Cyrodiil. Your assertion that inspecting gear is critical to your success in PvP makes literally no sense to me, whatsoever.
Delete.Edited by Smiteye on August 25, 2014 12:52PM1 -
Tootall2186✭✭✭Why can't we just wear what we want and pick and choose any armor passive from any line and get the said passives. Maxing at the current 5/5 passives useable for armor...?Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Tootall2186 wrote: »Your reaction time and ability to change tactics on the fly and the ability to think ahead of your opponent are what make a good pvper. Not seeing what armor they have on. Like I said, armor should be for looks and looks alone. But again that's an entirely different discussion. The easiest fix, again, is separate costume slots per piece.
Now you're just contradicting yourself, proving my argument FOR me. I literally just got done saying that "ability to change tactics on the fly" and "think ahead" are important parts of being a good pvp'er. You obviously have no interest in reading anything I have written, and have not done so either.
Sorry I'm not contradicting myself in the slightest.
I stopped reading what you've been writing a few posts ago because you still try to come off as an elitist know it all.
What we've said to your point with armor/costumes in pvp dooesnt do anything FOR your point. You're trying to state that seeing someone's armor and being able to tell what build they're running just from seeing their armor, is what sets you apart from the "casual" pvpers. I'm sorry but you're wrong. Seeing someone's armor means zilche. But please go ahead and continue to spit out your babble. I'll continue to run around in my costume just to prove my point and show you what makes a true pvper. 3 -
bertenburnyb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Potato!potato = costumes
thy should add alot more tooHaze Ramoran Dunmer Dragonknight Tank/Dps – Smoked-Da-Herb Saxheel Templar Tank/Healer
Red Diamond, Protect us 'til the end (EU EP Thorn)0 -
guybrushtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Heck yes! I love playing dress up and I'm not afraid to flaunt it!Attorneyatlawl wrote: »The first part is basically saying that what you describe of it being "copy-paste" couldn't be further from the truth in terms of the resources involved. If someone could simply conceptually think up a system in their programming work and have it exist with ease like you act, they'd probably be the richest man on Earth. The conceptual difficulty has absolutely no relation to the effort involved.
From personal experience, I am painfully aware that things that look simple conceptually can be a *** to code more often than not, but I'm fairly certain that this is not one of them. I mean somebody wrote that UI once, and they obviously wrote a script for the interface to look into what's in a slot to propagate it to engine and server; having it look in another place as well and prioritize that one is not a challenging task at all, if it is done when the interface is first written. Now, that code might be a ravaged battlefield behind the scenes for all we know, so it might very well be no longer possible.
Anyway, my point was that not having appearance slots in favor of the functionally loosely similar crafting system was most likely not due to technical limitations but a conscious design decision, and I personally don't see it as a very good choice. It seems to me it was more born out of the desire to "do something unique" over something simple and elegant, and I don't like it very much for that.0 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Potato!guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »Anyway, my point was that not having appearance slots in favor of the functionally loosely similar crafting system was most likely not due to technical limitations but a conscious design decision, and I personally don't see it as a very good choice. It seems to me it was more born out of the desire to "do something unique" over something simple and elegant, and I don't like it very much for that.
Not speaking of the technical discussion since I think we can both agree neither of us know how their codebase is setup...... I do think you're right about their design intent as to why they didn't place an appearance setup in from the start. -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.0