Counter to blocking

Jaxom · August 2014

Panda244 wrote: »

when I see someone blocking, run up, Mass Hysteria, and before they know whats happened my buddies have hammered them into the dirt so far only their head is visible, and it gets trampled.

I've been accused of hacking doing exactly this. Pretty funny.

Erock25 · August 2014

Panda244 wrote: »

In PvP I'm a NB healer with Resto, I slot Mass Hysteria and run around with my group of usually four or five friends, three are DKs, ones a NB, the other is a sorc. So when I see someone blocking, run up, Mass Hysteria, and before they know whats happened my buddies have hammered them into the dirt so far only their head is visible, and it gets trampled. I also get rage whispers from time to time, I'll edit the post and post a pic of one if I manage to screenshot the next one

How do you get rage whispers? Don't you need someone's @name to send a cross faction whisper?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

In PvP I'm a NB healer with Resto, I slot Mass Hysteria and run around with my group of usually four or five friends, three are DKs, ones a NB, the other is a sorc. So when I see someone blocking, run up, Mass Hysteria, and before they know whats happened my buddies have hammered them into the dirt so far only their head is visible, and it gets trampled. I also get rage whispers from time to time, I'll edit the post and post a pic of one if I manage to screenshot the next one

How do you get rage whispers? Don't you need someone's @name to send a cross faction whisper?

no, you only need character name.

kungmoo · August 2014

Awdwyn wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

I just unleash on them and burn their stamina down. If they don't keep the pressure on me, they'll run out of stamina and then they are open to whatever I choose to throw their way.

That said, as a Templar, I don't have an AoE CC effect that is guaranteed to work. I could run with Spear Shards but it only hits one target and it might not always be the one I want.

How about trying out volcanic rune? It's mages guild so not class limited.

volcanic rune does not work. if you are blocking when you step on the rune you are not hit with the CC

Springt-Über-Zwerge · August 2014

just spam basic attacks and drain their stamina. or as a templar punkturing sweep.

Awdwyn · August 2014

astal360b14_ESO wrote: »

Awdwyn wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

I just unleash on them and burn their stamina down. If they don't keep the pressure on me, they'll run out of stamina and then they are open to whatever I choose to throw their way.

That said, as a Templar, I don't have an AoE CC effect that is guaranteed to work. I could run with Spear Shards but it only hits one target and it might not always be the one I want.

How about trying out volcanic rune? It's mages guild so not class limited.

volcanic rune does not work. if you are blocking when you step on the rune you are not hit with the CC

Interesting - thanks for letting us know

- that's one thing to strike off my PvP experimenting list.

Kewljag_66_ESO · August 2014

Vunter wrote: »

PVP is full of people that blocks all the time now.. And spam instant abilities.
When you see someone with sword and shield, you just can't kill him if you aren't using those things too.
If they don't want to fix this instant ability casting while blocking thing, then we need a counter for blocking, because everyone he's freaking invincible when he does it.
And they can even DPS hard with some class abilities.
Please?

I agree that they need to take away the ability to insta cast while blocking, I using the same system as they have for when you sprint. You abilities are blacked out from using during sprinting.

But i have found a decent way to counter these blocking tanks. As a NB I found that the really under used skill of dark shades works very well. the 2shades attacking a blocking target really sap their stamina fast, they also debuffs teh targets damage out put by 15% I Combine that with my DW flurry morph blinding strikes which also seems to sap alot staminia with each strike. They always run out of stamina right away. When that happens blocking does not work and they drop faster than a drunken prom date.

semp3rfi · August 2014

I would have thought melee power attacks should break through block, meybe not a shield but definately through Staff users.

Blocking is a great mechanic, But as a stamina melee user Im getting sick of beating on magicka mages that seem to have unlimited block. doesnt matter how fast I beat on them with auto attacks or abilites, they just keep on blocking. Shields turtling up I can understand, But staff users?

i would add a 2 handed attack called strip shield. Which reduces blocking down to 10% mitigation for # seconds.

I would make staff users blocking unsustainable against melee weapons.

david.haypreub18_ESO · August 2014

Soloeus wrote: »

AOE CC.

Dark Talons.

Impulse.

On and on and on...

Which AoEs get through blocking? I can't seem to make sense of this.

My AoE Biting Jabs doesn't get through (though it does burn down the opponent's stamina quite quickly). Why does Impulse get through? And why would an AoE CC get through?

I'm not saying it doesn't-- I've actually started using Spear Shards against turtles, and it does work quite well. I'm just trying to figure out why some AoE things get through, and others don't, so I can choose counters effectively.

david.haypreub18_ESO · August 2014

Interestingly, I found this post by the developers in an 'Ask Us Anything' from last year. In answering a question about blocking spells, they said this:

Ranged physical attacks and spell projectiles can be mitigated with a block, but all other magic will go right through. You have the chance to interrupt some magic spells, though.

This does not seem to be the case, though, with Biting Jabs, which is neither a ranged physical attack nor a spell projectile, yet is blockable.

ExiledKhallisi · August 2014

Lay down caltrops.... watch them block 2-3 attacks to 0 stamina... pwn them

david.haypreub18_ESO · August 2014

So the basic principles seem to be:

Blockable:
--Ranged physical attacks
--Ranged Spell projectiles
--?Some Cones?

Unblockable
--AoE

Is that right?

CapuchinSeven · August 2014

Jaxom wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

when I see someone blocking, run up, Mass Hysteria, and before they know whats happened my buddies have hammered them into the dirt so far only their head is visible, and it gets trampled.

I've been accused of hacking doing exactly this. Pretty funny.

Great combo is to dance around with my dodges and bow, build up ultimate and then let them chase me down, fear, weapon swap, ambush, soul harvest/soul tether, impale.

Soooo many rage tells.

GnatB · August 2014

Assuming the dev's aren't just being mean, I'd assume the answer to "what can be blocked' would be if you assume character facing is an abstract, then the things that are blockable would be those that *should* be able to be blocked if you were facing the proper direction with a shield.

That said, I would have expected Volcanic to fall into the "doesn't make sense to block" category. Unlike, for instance, Jabs. Which are really just a bunch of spears jabbing.

Personally though, had I been in charge of design:

1. Only S&B would be able to block projectiles. Rest of the weapons would be able to parry "melee" attacks/spells.
2. Only S&B would be able to attack while blocking.
3. Nobody would be able to block an attack from an invisible/hidden assailant.
4. Possibly give staffs a triggered ability that would block projectiles for a short (1 second) duration. Would cost mana. Can't see any logical way a the other weapons would block projectiles, which could cause balance issues though. that said, staff users are probably squishier, so maybe would need it more?
5.

Incidentally, somebody mentioned caltrops. I'll admit I haven't done much PvP, but from what I understand they are horribly implemented. They should work in such a fashion that the amount of damage you take from them is dependent on how fast you are moving. If you're sprinting/charging you take a lot, if you're running you take some. If you're walking you take very little (if not none) if you're standing still, you take 0.

Xsorus · August 2014

Syndy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Nightblades are able to take on Blocking people the best, with Shades and Fear.

Blinding Flashes does a decent enough job, it's by no means excellent. Nothing like running up on someone holding down block, popping that, then watching them stumble back disoriented.

that pulsing one that Templars get (I don't think its the one that breaks block) is also incredibly annoying.

AlexDougherty · August 2014

Vunter wrote: »

PVP is full of people that blocks all the time now.. And spam instant abilities.
When you see someone with sword and shield, you just can't kill him if you aren't using those things too.
If they don't want to fix this instant ability casting while blocking thing, then we need a counter for blocking, because everyone he's freaking invincible when he does it.
And they can even DPS hard with some class abilities.
Please?

No counter for blocking, if they do that we get unbeatable bosses, I've seen that happen in my last MMO.

But you shouldn't get instant casting while you're blocking, if an ability is already instant fair enough, but blocking should cancel any ability with a casting time, and you should have to start again afterwards.

And yes I play sword and shield on all but one of my characters.

Orchish · August 2014

jrgray93 wrote: »

Orchish wrote: »

The problem with PvP is not that tanks can actually block and soak up some damage, but rather how players rush to the forums and cry for nerfs rather than figuring out ways to beat said opponents.

They are certainly killable.

Well this is laughable. "Tanks" aren't the problem. It's players with offensive builds and light armor who are able to simultaneously attack and block, becoming nigh-unkillable. Actual tanks just have to be worn down.

I agree with this part, but at the same time if there was a counter to blocking wouldn't this hurt Tanks who's DPS is usually lacking anyway? I can understand where you're coming from, i face many sword and board users wearing a dress with a restro as their secondary. But i my self am gimping my self enough by using heavy armour. If there is one thing that would force me to quit tanking and go dps in eso it would be a counter to blocking as then not only would my dps suffer, but my tanking would too.

Although again, you exaggerate the situation. They are certainly killable.

kitsinni · August 2014

semp3rfi wrote: »

I would have thought melee power attacks should break through block, meybe not a shield but definately through Staff users.

Blocking is a great mechanic, But as a stamina melee user Im getting sick of beating on magicka mages that seem to have unlimited block. doesnt matter how fast I beat on them with auto attacks or abilites, they just keep on blocking. Shields turtling up I can understand, But staff users?

i would add a 2 handed attack called strip shield. Which reduces blocking down to 10% mitigation for # seconds.

I would make staff users blocking unsustainable against melee weapons.

People need to realize that stamina being the block resource actually makes magicka users able to use it more than stamina users who are soft capped in Stamina. Say as a stamina user you are sitting around the softcap with 2400 stamina. Well as a magicka user I have over 1500, pretty much everyone is using the consummate recipes now. So basically you have 900 more stamina than me and I use stamina for 0 of my damage. I still have 90ish stamina recovery.

Erock25 · August 2014

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

So the basic principles seem to be:

Blockable:
--Ranged physical attacks
--Ranged Spell projectiles
--?Some Cones?

Unblockable
--AoE

Is that right?

No, aoe is mitigated by a block just like any other attack.

TehMagnus · August 2014

Blocking consumes stamina. Hit enough, deplete stamina, no more blocking.

Skill counters blocking.

Vunter · August 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

Blocking consumes stamina. Hit enough, deplete stamina, no more blocking.

Skill counters blocking.

If only it was that simple

Thanks all for the suggestions though, I read all the replies ^^
I have a nightblade char and I'll try fear with him.
With my 2H sorcerer I'll just bolt escape away when someone start to blocking ahah

kitsinni · August 2014

Vunter wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Blocking consumes stamina. Hit enough, deplete stamina, no more blocking.

Skill counters blocking.

If only it was that simple

Thanks all for the suggestions though, I read all the replies ^^
I have a nightblade char and I'll try fear with him.
With my 2H sorcerer I'll just bolt escape away when someone start to blocking ahah

If you see someone already blocking throw shades on them to wear them down if you are a nightblade. I'm not sure if you can still send them out while you are in sneak but you used to be able to. If they are blocking two shades their stamina is going to drop fast.

Fear is a nice suggestion and stops them from attacking you for a couple seconds but the time they are feared for is not enough time to get them killed.

kitsinni · August 2014

One trick you can also you from stealth throw on mark target. If they know what they are doing they typically instantly jump off a horse and start blocking. You know right then if you need to throw in shades.

Jaxom · August 2014

kitsinni wrote: »

One trick you can also you from stealth throw on mark target. If they know what they are doing they typically instantly jump off a horse and start blocking. You know right then if you need to throw in shades.

This is actually a brilliant idea. I may have to start implementing this. Mark Target, Shades. Stay in stealth until I see they are out of Stamina then Snipe. It's a bit of a longer tactic but I like it. Once you know they are out of Stamina, you can Fear them knowing you will get the full 4s out of it. hmmmm.

Attorneyatlawl · August 2014

Vunter wrote: »

PVP is full of people that blocks all the time now.. And spam instant abilities.
When you see someone with sword and shield, you just can't kill him if you aren't using those things too.
If they don't want to fix this instant ability casting while blocking thing, then we need a counter for blocking, because everyone he's freaking invincible when he does it.
And they can even DPS hard with some class abilities.
Please?

There is a direct counter: multihit abilities like crushing shock, blood craze, summon shadow (the dual-shadow morph for nightblades), all will drain an enemy's stamina very quickly if you wave them with a light attack. Blocking has a very high stamina cost per hit absorbed. Additionally, pbaoe's and other abilities are not blockable, which means you can spam sap essence, elemental ring, blockade, etc. and just kill them instead

.

Pmarsico9 · August 2014

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Additionally, pbaoe's and other abilities are not blockable, which means you can spam sap essence, elemental ring, blockade, etc. and just kill them instead .

AKA: Pulsar Spam will kill them no matter what they try. L2Blob

Lionxoft · August 2014

Awdwyn wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

I just unleash on them and burn their stamina down. If they don't keep the pressure on me, they'll run out of stamina and then they are open to whatever I choose to throw their way.

That said, as a Templar, I don't have an AoE CC effect that is guaranteed to work. I could run with Spear Shards but it only hits one target and it might not always be the one I want.

How about trying out volcanic rune? It's mages guild so not class limited.

You can block through volcanic rune.

Obscure · August 2014

To many powerful instant casts that can be covered with a block. Prevent casting while blocking and there's no problem.

Note weapon enchants ignore blocking. Dragonknight Igneous Weapons bonus fire damage ignores blocking. Nightblade fear ignores blocking. Dragonknight Dark Talons ignores blocking. Sorcerer velocious curse ignores blocking.

Also be aware that even though a targets stamina may be depleted, they can continue to hold up block. It doesn't mitigate any damage, but can lead an enemy to believe they shouldn't use a blockable CC presuming it would be blocked. This is something that can be revealed by using light attacks and paying close attention to the target health bar or by using any add-on that shows damage numbers or indicates a blocked attack. Once you can tell you're doing full damage to a target holding block, stun them and start beating them down.

Though counterplay to blocking exists, the ability to cast while blocking is an imbalanced mechanic, especially when taking into account Harness Magicka restores magicka from all attacks, Resto staff restores magicka while blocking, and Strabane set restores even more just for blocking. Blocking serves as a battery for more casting. Casting which you can do while blocking...that's just effin stupid.

Lionxoft · August 2014

GnatB wrote: »

Incidentally, somebody mentioned caltrops. I'll admit I haven't done much PvP, but from what I understand they are horribly implemented. They should work in such a fashion that the amount of damage you take from them is dependent on how fast you are moving. If you're sprinting/charging you take a lot, if you're running you take some. If you're walking you take very little (if not none) if you're standing still, you take 0.

Not sure that's true about the standing still part. When I had WW and wore 2 HA pieces I would stand in caltrops on purpose if there wasn't much going on in the battle. 24 damage every second or so. Heavy Armor/WW loves constant low damage ticks.

Syndy · August 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Syndy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Nightblades are able to take on Blocking people the best, with Shades and Fear.

Blinding Flashes does a decent enough job, it's by no means excellent. Nothing like running up on someone holding down block, popping that, then watching them stumble back disoriented.

that pulsing one that Templars get (I don't think its the one that breaks block) is also incredibly annoying.

That is Blinding Flashes, morphed from Blinding Light. Pulses every 2 seconds causing enemies to have a 50% chance to miss and be set off balance for 7.2 seconds. It does go through block, added in 1.3.3.