The Campaigns - What's wrong with them - How to Fix them

bitaken · August 2014

So,

PvP in ESO is a lot of fun when you are playing on a campaign that has a relatively balanced population, competitive guilds running groups and good natured (IE: opponents, not enemies) in the campaigns. However, right now the problem is that each faction is trying to maintain "Buff Campaigns" and will do everything they can to maintain them.

This is a problem created by guesting, travel to player still being an option and "home campaign buffs" moving with players wherever they may go.

It could be argued that in the first iteration of the new campaigns Chillrend was one of the most competitive servers with a relatively balanced population - AD having a disadvantage of numbers - but not by that much. However, EP claimed Bow of Shadows as a "buff server" where everyone could home to and receive scroll and emp buffs - and then "travel to" friends that were on other servers. AD Claimed Haderus and did the same thing. Recently, DC claimed Bow and all the EP from bow got angry and "traveled" "guested" or "re-homed" to Chillrend and effectively ruined the campaign for those of us who play on it daily. They go on 4-5 AM EST server rushes - turning the map red for most of the day while they PvE with "buffs" and PvP with "buffs" that give them a sizable advantage over those of us who "home" on Chill as regulars.

It is time for ZOS to admit that the whole "travel to" and "guest" concepts are just flat out failures. We need 4 campaigns at most. One VR only 14 day campaign - One non VR 14 day - Two 30 day normal campaigns - and done. Everyone will have to "home" a server and then cannot leave that server until the campaign is done. Everyone is free to make a choice where they want to home at the end of each campaign. Travel to needs to be completely disabled - it is just being abused by players of all factions - and guesting is just a horrible concept. We need people who are committed to making a server competitive and fun for all factions - not guest zergs that take over servers while most people are sleeping so their friends can enjoy "buff servers" the next day or for the next few days.

Time to make a decision ZOS - the real PvP'ers are suffering. Removing campaign buffs is not going to fix this issue. Factions will still abuse guesting and travel to player to create an unfair or imbalanced server on a regular basis. I do not claim any one faction is more or less guilty of this activity. It is a fault in the design that the real PvP players do not want to see in the game. Let us be proud of what we are able to accomplish on our server - and not deal with what the guesters may do while we are sleeping or off doing something else.

Agrippa_Invisus · August 2014

Agreed, bumped, /signed, whatever.

Guesting needs to go. Forever. Buffs need to only affect you when on the map -- not in PVE Land and not in other campaigns.

This has to stop.

Aoe_Barbecue · August 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Agreed, bumped, /signed, whatever.

Guesting needs to go. Forever. Buffs need to only affect you when on the map -- not in PVE Land and not in other campaigns.

This has to stop.

Once the bolded happens guesting with buffs will become irrelevant, so the sooner the better.

ZOS_BrianWheeler · August 2014

Buffs only being applied from the Campaign you're currently in while in PVP is on the roadmap ahead. It will take a bit to get that up and running as it's not as simple as it sounds code wise, but that is our intention in the future.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · August 2014

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Buffs only being applied from the Campaign you're currently in while in PVP is on the roadmap ahead. It will take a bit to get that up and running as it's not as simple as it sounds code wise, but that is our intention in the future.

Good way to do it is make them active buffs like the buff we already get when we enter cyrodil.

The one that gives everyone 500 HP, 300 armor pen, unnecessary increased range of attacks greater than 25 meters by 7 meters...

So when we enter cyrodil, we'd get a buff that represents the current bonuses your alliance is meant to have on that shard. None of it would leave PvP that way.

KellanKell · August 2014

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Buffs only being applied from the Campaign you're currently in while in PVP is on the roadmap ahead. It will take a bit to get that up and running as it's not as simple as it sounds code wise, but that is our intention in the future.

This will be a great change, but it needs to be done sooner rather then later. However I imagine you'll get a lot of backlash from the PVErs, but they shouldn't need to join a pvp campaign to pve.

Kewljag_66_ESO · August 2014

KellanKell wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Buffs only being applied from the Campaign you're currently in while in PVP is on the roadmap ahead. It will take a bit to get that up and running as it's not as simple as it sounds code wise, but that is our intention in the future.

This will be a great change, but it needs to be done sooner rather then later. However I imagine you'll get a lot of backlash from the PVErs, but they shouldn't need to join a pvp campaign to pve.

The way he stated it before from another thread is that while in Cyrodiil you only get the current buffs from that campaign BUT outside of Cyrodiil you still get your home campaign buffs so there will be no change to PVErs outside of Cyrodiil

Ifthir_ESO · August 2014

bitaken wrote: »

So,
However, EP claimed Bow of Shadows as a "buff server" where everyone could home to and receive scroll and emp buffs - and then "travel to" friends that were on other servers. AD Claimed Haderus and did the same thing. Recently, DC claimed Bow and all the EP from bow got angry and "traveled" "guested" or "re-homed" to Chillrend and effectively ruined the campaign for those of us who play on it daily. They go on 4-5 AM EST server rushes - turning the map red for most of the day while they PvE with "buffs" and PvP with "buffs" that give them a sizable advantage over those of us who "home" on Chill as regulars.

I like your post it has a lot of good points but let's be clear, this is not something just EP did. EP goes on server rushes? That's exactly what DC did to take the Bow campaign in the first place. An overnight take when everyone's pants were down.

I agree with the meat of your post, I am just not a fan of the way you singled out EP as a the bad guy here and DC as some kind of victim. This whole Chillrend problem started because DC wanted a buff server and had up until then been the odd man out in that regard.

Ifthir_ESO · August 2014

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Buffs only being applied from the Campaign you're currently in while in PVP is on the roadmap ahead. It will take a bit to get that up and running as it's not as simple as it sounds code wise, but that is our intention in the future.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ does this mean we can expect to lose Home pvp bonuses in PVE as well? Would certainly help limit this guesting/swapping that is going on.

bitaken · August 2014

bitaken wrote: »

So,

However, right now the problem is that each faction is trying to maintain "Buff Campaigns" and will do everything they can to maintain them.

I do not claim any one faction is more or less guilty of this activity.

It is a fault in the design that the real PvP players do not want to see in the game. Let us be proud of what we are able to accomplish on our server - and not deal with what the guesters may do while we are sleeping or off doing something else.

Guessing you missed the salient points in those two key sentences.

I understand I singled out EP for turning Chillrend into a red map - that's because generally speaking we had a very amicable agreement on the server between the major guilds. One bar pop - home keeps are off limits - prime time - the gloves are off.

That is - until EP lost bow as their buff server. Then - well...they PvDoor the map and have two bars of pop to DC's one bar all day long.

Now, when the server lights up at night - things even out and DC and AD are able to push EP back to their stronghold emp keep and their three home keeps. However, this was once a very fun server to play on with my guild Einherjar enjoying great combat with TSYM (a very good EP guild) and Hijinx (the best run EP group I have seen in the field) and some strong AD groups as well (stealth oil girl not included

). Now however, it is keep capturing all night long to get some semblance of balance and grinding keeps is jut not as fun as what we used to have on this particular campaign.

Sorry if I singled out EP as the problem to some degree - but on Chill - THEY ARE the problem. Bringing out the zerg all day and late night when no one is online and then forcing us to speed cap to hold even one or two keeps on the map during the daytime.

Arkath · August 2014

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

KellanKell wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Buffs only being applied from the Campaign you're currently in while in PVP is on the roadmap ahead. It will take a bit to get that up and running as it's not as simple as it sounds code wise, but that is our intention in the future.

This will be a great change, but it needs to be done sooner rather then later. However I imagine you'll get a lot of backlash from the PVErs, but they shouldn't need to join a pvp campaign to pve.

The way he stated it before from another thread is that while in Cyrodiil you only get the current buffs from that campaign BUT outside of Cyrodiil you still get your home campaign buffs so there will be no change to PVErs outside of Cyrodiil

In that case, this alone won't change anything.

bitaken · August 2014

Arkath wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

KellanKell wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Buffs only being applied from the Campaign you're currently in while in PVP is on the roadmap ahead. It will take a bit to get that up and running as it's not as simple as it sounds code wise, but that is our intention in the future.

This will be a great change, but it needs to be done sooner rather then later. However I imagine you'll get a lot of backlash from the PVErs, but they shouldn't need to join a pvp campaign to pve.

The way he stated it before from another thread is that while in Cyrodiil you only get the current buffs from that campaign BUT outside of Cyrodiil you still get your home campaign buffs so there will be no change to PVErs outside of Cyrodiil

In that case, this alone won't change anything.

Precisely, the factions will still want a "buff server" and all zerg one campaign and home there and defend that "buff server" for all it's worth.

Wouldn't it just be better if the PvP buffs ONLY counted in cyrodil? All the DPS going up and VR 14 should be enough to make people able to handle their PvE fun without buffs from Cyrodil.

Ifthir_ESO · August 2014

bitaken wrote: »

Sorry if I singled out EP as the problem to some degree - but on Chill - THEY ARE the problem.

I hear you, but from my perspective, DC came and PVDoor'd Bow which caused EP to come PVDoor Chillrend at the same time EP from Chillrend was on Haderus fighting Alacrity.

ZoS just needs to end this entire PvP buffs outside of their native server as you suggested.

Ifthir_ESO · August 2014

bitaken wrote: »

Arkath wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

KellanKell wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Buffs only being applied from the Campaign you're currently in while in PVP is on the roadmap ahead. It will take a bit to get that up and running as it's not as simple as it sounds code wise, but that is our intention in the future.

This will be a great change, but it needs to be done sooner rather then later. However I imagine you'll get a lot of backlash from the PVErs, but they shouldn't need to join a pvp campaign to pve.

The way he stated it before from another thread is that while in Cyrodiil you only get the current buffs from that campaign BUT outside of Cyrodiil you still get your home campaign buffs so there will be no change to PVErs outside of Cyrodiil

In that case, this alone won't change anything.

Precisely, the factions will still want a "buff server" and all zerg one campaign and home there and defend that "buff server" for all it's worth.

Wouldn't it just be better if the PvP buffs ONLY counted in cyrodil? All the DPS going up and VR 14 should be enough to make people able to handle their PvE fun without buffs from Cyrodil.

Great post. Totally agree.

Kewljag_66_ESO · August 2014

Arkath wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

KellanKell wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Buffs only being applied from the Campaign you're currently in while in PVP is on the roadmap ahead. It will take a bit to get that up and running as it's not as simple as it sounds code wise, but that is our intention in the future.

This will be a great change, but it needs to be done sooner rather then later. However I imagine you'll get a lot of backlash from the PVErs, but they shouldn't need to join a pvp campaign to pve.

The way he stated it before from another thread is that while in Cyrodiil you only get the current buffs from that campaign BUT outside of Cyrodiil you still get your home campaign buffs so there will be no change to PVErs outside of Cyrodiil

In that case, this alone won't change anything.

bitaken wrote: »

Arkath wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

KellanKell wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Buffs only being applied from the Campaign you're currently in while in PVP is on the roadmap ahead. It will take a bit to get that up and running as it's not as simple as it sounds code wise, but that is our intention in the future.

This will be a great change, but it needs to be done sooner rather then later. However I imagine you'll get a lot of backlash from the PVErs, but they shouldn't need to join a pvp campaign to pve.

The way he stated it before from another thread is that while in Cyrodiil you only get the current buffs from that campaign BUT outside of Cyrodiil you still get your home campaign buffs so there will be no change to PVErs outside of Cyrodiil

In that case, this alone won't change anything.

Precisely, the factions will still want a "buff server" and all zerg one campaign and home there and defend that "buff server" for all it's worth.

Wouldn't it just be better if the PvP buffs ONLY counted in cyrodil? All the DPS going up and VR 14 should be enough to make people able to handle their PvE fun without buffs from Cyrodil.

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Arkath wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

KellanKell wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Buffs only being applied from the Campaign you're currently in while in PVP is on the roadmap ahead. It will take a bit to get that up and running as it's not as simple as it sounds code wise, but that is our intention in the future.

This will be a great change, but it needs to be done sooner rather then later. However I imagine you'll get a lot of backlash from the PVErs, but they shouldn't need to join a pvp campaign to pve.

The way he stated it before from another thread is that while in Cyrodiil you only get the current buffs from that campaign BUT outside of Cyrodiil you still get your home campaign buffs so there will be no change to PVErs outside of Cyrodiil

In that case, this alone won't change anything.

Precisely, the factions will still want a "buff server" and all zerg one campaign and home there and defend that "buff server" for all it's worth.

Wouldn't it just be better if the PvP buffs ONLY counted in cyrodil? All the DPS going up and VR 14 should be enough to make people able to handle their PvE fun without buffs from Cyrodil.

Great post. Totally agree.

Most people dont want to play on a dead campaign even tho they have all the buffs, they want an action filled full campaign that has balance. But that action campaign where they mostly play (Thorn for example) is their guest campaign. This way they can compete thier with their buffs from their home campaign that they really dont care about but just use for the buffs to have an advantage.

So with this change they dont get to go play on Thorn with thier full buffs from their home campaign. They will have the buffs from where they re actually playing. The moment this goes into effect you will see 90% of these players switch their home campaign to Thorn (where they actually compete) then you will actually see that alliance trying to get their home territory bonus and so on. Currently alot people dont care about stuff like that because they already are fully buffed from a different campaign.

I dont see why you say this wont fix anything..? This would fix most of the problem. people would not have an advantage from another campaign. there would be no reason to home a seperate campaign, you would basically ONLY play on your home campaign.

In short people playing on the big balanced campaign would now home that campaign and no one would have random buffs from elseware

PVE wise this would still keep the pride and benefit from your home alliance winning

TheBull · August 2014

In the meantime get rid of the 7 day and the Vet only imo. Two to many campaigns.

Kewljag_66_ESO · August 2014

bitaken wrote: »

Arkath wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

KellanKell wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Buffs only being applied from the Campaign you're currently in while in PVP is on the roadmap ahead. It will take a bit to get that up and running as it's not as simple as it sounds code wise, but that is our intention in the future.

This will be a great change, but it needs to be done sooner rather then later. However I imagine you'll get a lot of backlash from the PVErs, but they shouldn't need to join a pvp campaign to pve.

The way he stated it before from another thread is that while in Cyrodiil you only get the current buffs from that campaign BUT outside of Cyrodiil you still get your home campaign buffs so there will be no change to PVErs outside of Cyrodiil

In that case, this alone won't change anything.

Precisely, the factions will still want a "buff server" and all zerg one campaign and home there and defend that "buff server" for all it's worth.

Wouldn't it just be better if the PvP buffs ONLY counted in cyrodil? All the DPS going up and VR 14 should be enough to make people able to handle their PvE fun without buffs from Cyrodil.

I guess PVE wise there could still be buff campaigns but PVP wise your gunna home the campaign where you actually want to play. For most people that will be the full balanced campaign or the next popular campaigns. Your not going to have a PVP alliance protecting dead buff campaigns anymore because those players are going to be competing on there home campaigns trying to rank which will be the action campaigns. So because of this the non popular campaigns would probably flip ownership daily and there would really be no set buff campaign

LonePirate · August 2014

bitaken wrote: »

Sorry if I singled out EP as the problem to some degree - but on Chill - THEY ARE the problem. Bringing out the zerg all day and late night when no one is online and then forcing us to speed cap to hold even one or two keeps on the map during the daytime.

I might suggest blaming the DC players from Thornblade who turned Bow of Shadows from red to blue which prompted EP to move to Chillrend. They deserve as much, if not more of the blame than EP.

BTW, since 1.3 went live, I have exclusively set Thornblade as my Home server while bouncing around to different Guest servers. I am merely a witness to these changes and not a reason for them.

As for Guest campaigns, I think they are needed because it is not unheard of to be locked out of your Home campaign for 30 minutes or more. If you only have an hour or two to play, that is a lot of wasted time sitting in a queue waiting to join a campaign. I have no problems with making buffs apply only to Home campaigns and PVE zones and guests receiving only the buffs from the campaign they are currently playing. I cannot support a wholesale removal of the ability to join a campaign as a guest, though.

Skafsgaard · August 2014

TheBull wrote: »

In the meantime get rid of the 7 day and the Vet only imo. Two to many campaigns.

Lets not. First time in ESO i truly enjoyed PvP was when I set home to Haderus and not Bloodthorn. The EU 7 day is pop locked for all alliances or 1/2 locked 3rd 3 bars.

I also like the short interval instead of huge campaigns. Like I can decide for a week now i GO for it and put effort into it, I got myself on the leaderboard (top 10) and felt it was cool, even though I got nothing other than a screenshot for personal glory out of it. For the longer campaigns I cannot continuously pump 8+ hours in a day, but a week I chose (vacations, loads of free time or whatvever) makes it possible to do that, which for most people would be impossible even just 2 weeks, let a lone a month or more.

Haderus has GOT to stay.

Yonkit · August 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Agreed, bumped, /signed, whatever.

Guesting needs to go. Forever. Buffs need to only affect you when on the map -- not in PVE Land and not in other campaigns.

This has to stop.

I'd like to see how it goes with guesting once the buff issue is gone. I'd like to go guest on thornblade when things are slow elsewhere and just need some fights or ganking or whatever else to take away from one's main campaign. Guesting would be fine, I believe, as long as the buffs are gone because it'll have been properly de-incentivized, which I do not believe is a word. Maybe we'll see large blue or red or yellow guest groups running around trying to wreck the lesser populated campaigns just for laughs, but that has yet to be seen.

Ezareth · August 2014

Guesting has been ruining campaigns since the very beginning. I've lost every campaign I've played on to off-campaign "guests" and zergs. I know more people who have quit over the game over this and the emperor trading than I know who are still playing and it's a damn shame.

I wish they had instituted amazing rewards for the top 2-3% of players in every campaign since the beginning which would encourage people to actually fight and STAY in the top positions instead of guesting around to grind AP on campaigns you don't care about.

You can't beat them....join them. I home'd to Haderus and now play on Thornblade and man now I remember how much of an advantage both in damage, survivability and AP gain having full control of a map actually gives you.

MAOofDC · August 2014

Haderus (NA) sucks it is completely taken over but the AD. Before you flame me my main is an AD toon and I enjoy playing PvP. That being said I can't PvP on my home server, because the EP and DC players have fled the server for greener pastures. I don't blame them either we the AD just have to put out some scouts and if anyone makes any moves we stomp them out. If one of the blues or reds shows up and their position is given damn near EVERY AD play descends on them just in the hopes of getting a couple of AP. It's boring and sad. Oh yeah I forgot to mention that we have had the same emperor for 16+ days now, 16 days on a 7 day server something is very wrong and unbalanced on Haderus (NA).

EvilEmpire · August 2014

Can someone explain to me how the 'travel to..' BS works in pvp? I'm a solo player, or play with just gf and join random groups, so I don't always understand some of the cheese. I will say that a few nights ago (before the night cap fiasco and have not played eso for a few days) while we were taking the inner door of a keep and had already slaughtered all of the EP around. I ran around to the side of the inner keep, and saw one red player in the distance. By the time I got up to him, it was like when you log into the bank for the first time and slowly it populates with about 30-40 ppl. I didn't really understand how this worked, because anytime gf and I tried to travel to each other, it didn't work and we got some message saying we couldn't do that.

synnerman · August 2014

You should be so lucky.....I play on Thornblade EU 30 day campaign and we have owned the map genuinely for 2-3 days at a time and had up to 6 scrolls for a day or 2. We haven't had an emperor buff or a scroll buff for a week now because they cant even fix that. Oh and yes we even had a GM there and he couldn't fix it either , so we get attacked by 2 factions at once with no buffs to defend ....yeah really working.

Skafsgaard · August 2014

EvilEmpire wrote: »

Can someone explain to me how the 'travel to..' BS works in pvp? I'm a solo player, or play with just gf and join random groups, so I don't always understand some of the cheese. I will say that a few nights ago (before the night cap fiasco and have not played eso for a few days) while we were taking the inner door of a keep and had already slaughtered all of the EP around. I ran around to the side of the inner keep, and saw one red player in the distance. By the time I got up to him, it was like when you log into the bank for the first time and slowly it populates with about 30-40 ppl. I didn't really understand how this worked, because anytime gf and I tried to travel to each other, it didn't work and we got some message saying we couldn't do that.

I think that guy put a camp down outside the walls and a raid or two spawned to defend, it's a common tactic and one well played scout and usually save a siege for find that camp.

Laura · August 2014

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Buffs only being applied from the Campaign you're currently in while in PVP is on the roadmap ahead. It will take a bit to get that up and running as it's not as simple as it sounds code wise, but that is our intention in the future.

take them out of PvE too, from a PvEr on the ebonheart pact i can tell you that its PvErs actually trying to change chillrend to an EP place because 20% crit is HUGE when you are raiding competitively.

I'm fine with the buffs effecting overworld and etc but it shouldn't work in the raids.

EvilEmpire · August 2014

Skafsgaard wrote: »

I think that guy put a camp down outside the walls and a raid or two spawned to defend, it's a common tactic and one well played scout and usually save a siege for find that camp.

It was inside the first wall, and I never saw a camp. That's what I didn't understand.

ZOS_BrianWheeler · August 2014

@Ifthir_ESO‌ When in PVE you will get campaign buffs from your assigned Home Campaign, but while in campaigns, you will only get buffs from the campaign you're physically located within.

Skafsgaard · August 2014

EvilEmpire wrote: »

Skafsgaard wrote: »

I think that guy put a camp down outside the walls and a raid or two spawned to defend, it's a common tactic and one well played scout and usually save a siege for find that camp.

It was inside the first wall, and I never saw a camp. That's what I didn't understand.

Im not sure, but you'll have to give more specifics. He might have put a camp in a tower or an entire raid might have been hiding in a corner waiting for you to breach and come from your back, some a sadistic like that.

Im fairly sure you cannot in anyway travel to inside cyrodiil, I know you can group queue but that would put you in a one of the gate areas.

Erock25 · August 2014

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

@Ifthir_ESO‌ When in PVE you will get campaign buffs from your assigned Home Campaign, but while in campaigns, you will only get buffs from the campaign you're physically located within.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ This isn't good enough. Take the pvp buffs out of pve completely. Also are you aware that full map ownage recently was buffed in 1.3.3 from 8% crit to 20% crit? Intended?

MAOofDC · August 2014

EvilEmpire wrote: »

Can someone explain to me how the 'travel to..' BS works in pvp? I'm a solo player, or play with just gf and join random groups, so I don't always understand some of the cheese. I will say that a few nights ago (before the night cap fiasco and have not played eso for a few days) while we were taking the inner door of a keep and had already slaughtered all of the EP around. I ran around to the side of the inner keep, and saw one red player in the distance. By the time I got up to him, it was like when you log into the bank for the first time and slowly it populates with about 30-40 ppl. I didn't really understand how this worked, because anytime gf and I tried to travel to each other, it didn't work and we got some message saying we couldn't do that.

In Cyrodill the only ways to travel are, using the transitis system going from faction controlled castle to another connected to the system, Another way is if someone sets up a forward camp. Lastly the good old foot/horse travel. The player to player travel in the PvP zone was disabled to prevent one person from getting into position and then 23 people teleporting to them and attacking. It can be a little annoying if you are trying to quest in Cyrodiil but other than that makes a lot of sense.