1.4.0 Nerf incoming for Lightarmor and DragonKnight

Selique · August 2014

Nova Sky wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Nova Sky wrote: »

Does this come about because some PvP folks were complaining? If so, once again a PvP issue screws up the game for players who primarily focus on PvE, particularly if new "trash" monsters are going to be dealing higher damage.

All they are doing is balancing the game, don't blame PvP for this, it has nothing to do with it. I'm sure there are other games out there where balance never happens and you can play the most OP combo imaginable.

Light armor is way too good atm, glad it is getting a nerf. I don't know much about DK's, so I won't comment on that change.

You make the mistake of assuming I've played other MMO games where this sort of thing has happened or is currently happening (OP equipment/armor/weapons). I have not. ESO is my first MMO, and thus every experience I have had in it is "virginal," so to speak.

The experience has, more or less, been largely positive so far. I'd like to keep it that way, but it seems PvP concerns are intruding more and more upon the PvE sphere.

Hmm. I imagine, coding-wise, it'd be too difficult for ESO programmers to "gate" some changes to the PvP areas of ESO. This latest change, for instance: I'd be fine with it if it activated only upon entering Cyrodiil.

All PvErs in every MMO say that.

Conversely, all PvPers say the same, but regarding PvE affecting PvP.

Bottom line is, ZoS has the metrics, we don't. Crying on the forums only goes so far. Its the data, numbers, charts, and suits that make the choices in game design changes.

Not PvPers, or PvErs.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Nova Sky wrote: »

Does this come about because some PvP folks were complaining? If so, once again a PvP issue screws up the game for players who primarily focus on PvE, particularly if new "trash" monsters are going to be dealing higher damage.

The only difference here is that your opponents can't come to cry on the forums. OP abilities are OP, in PvP or PvE.

UrQuan · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Nova Sky wrote: »

Does this come about because some PvP folks were complaining? If so, once again a PvP issue screws up the game for players who primarily focus on PvE, particularly if new "trash" monsters are going to be dealing higher damage.

The only difference here is that your opponents can't come to cry on the forums. OP abilities are OP, in PvP or PvE.

That's usually true, but not always. The ins and outs of fighting other players are different from the ins and outs of fighting mobs in PVE, so it's entirely possible that an ability could be OP in one, and relatively useless in the other.

timidobserver · August 2014

It should also be noted that the new trait adds spell resistance to armor, so the offensive bonuses from light armor are being nerfed and spell resistance traits are being added.

I think this might be a good thing. It will reduce magicka damage in PVP fairly significantly. The only question is whether it will be worth dropping impen to use the new trait.

PlagueMonk · August 2014

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Why are they nerfing light armor??? Have you noticed how 80% of people wear light armor? how light armor lets you have more damage and a better defense in most cases?

I think you answered your own question right there. If something is SO good that 80% of the people feel they need to use it rather than the other 2 armor types, something is out of whack. ALL armor types should be equally viable for all classes for different reasons and that is not happening right now.

And you are all QQing about 1-2% points?! Holy freakin crap! It's not as if they removed the ability, jeez. Why don't you try playing a NB with Siphoning strikes that removes 22% of your damage and then we will talk about your tiny nerf.

UrQuan · August 2014

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Why are they nerfing light armor??? Have you noticed how 80% of people wear light armor? how light armor lets you have more damage and a better defense in most cases?

I think you answered your own question right there. If something is SO good that 80% of the people feel they need to use it rather than the other 2 armor types, something is out of whack. ALL armor types should be equally viable for all classes for different reasons and that is not happening right now.

Um, I think that was exactly his point...

Fireborn · August 2014

Yet another nerf for DK's. Leave us alone for crying out loud!

shadowz081 · August 2014

How about instead of nerfing light armor you buff the other two to perform and syenergise just as well?

MeowGinger · August 2014

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Why are they nerfing light armor??? Have you noticed how 80% of people wear light armor? how light armor lets you have more damage and a better defense in most cases?

I think you answered your own question right there. If something is SO good that 80% of the people feel they need to use it rather than the other 2 armor types, something is out of whack. ALL armor types should be equally viable for all classes for different reasons and that is not happening right now.

And you are all QQing about 1-2% points?! Holy freakin crap! It's not as if they removed the ability, jeez. Why don't you try playing a NB with Siphoning strikes that removes 22% of your damage and then we will talk about your tiny nerf.

I wouldn't call 14% overall (pure light) tiny... if it is tiny then can I please have a 14% buff to my class damage?

I think the issue was that the 42% (maximum) spell penetration from light armor caused spell damage to completely bypass any other player's spell resistance, even when their SR was softcapped. You would expect spells to bypass only 42% of the player's existing SR. Since the mechanic itself seems broken, this change looks like a lazy quickfix.

Light armor may still be overpowered, or it may be balanced, or it may be overnerfed. It's too early to tell until players test out these changes.

ExiledKhallisi · August 2014

Stop the denial DK's Theres a reason raid parties in Cyrodil look like this:

DK DK DK DK DK DK DK DK DK Sorc Sorc NB Templar DK DK NB

Because DK's are the best class in the game. Even after previous nerfs.
If you dont htink so I challenge you to play the other 3 classes to vr12 so you can see how easy you steamrolled the game with your DK.

The nerf is overdue.

IMO Lightarmor should be nerfed even more or Heavy/Med should have the equivalent passives.

rusila22 · August 2014

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Why are they nerfing light armor??? Have you noticed how 80% of people wear light armor? how light armor lets you have more damage and a better defense in most cases?

I think you answered your own question right there. If something is SO good that 80% of the people feel they need to use it rather than the other 2 armor types, something is out of whack. ALL armor types should be equally viable for all classes for different reasons and that is not happening right now.

And you are all QQing about 1-2% points?! Holy freakin crap! It's not as if they removed the ability, jeez. Why don't you try playing a NB with Siphoning strikes that removes 22% of your damage and then we will talk about your tiny nerf.

Maybe 1-2% is not important for you but in pve(i don't do pvp so i can't anything about it)
it's important specially when in veteran mode you fight in solo against boss who has 3x HP than you.

It's also important when you do group content like 4man dungeon which has a dps check and even in trial which has a timer. So i repeat >>>yes 1-2% it's important.

Obscure · August 2014

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Stop the denial DK's Theres a reason raid parties in Cyrodil look like this:

DK DK DK DK DK DK DK DK DK Sorc Sorc NB Templar DK DK NB

Because DK's are the best class in the game. Even after previous nerfs.
If you dont htink so I challenge you to play the other 3 classes to vr12 so you can see how easy you steamrolled the game with your DK.

The nerf is overdue.

IMO Lightarmor should be nerfed even more or Heavy/Med should have the equivalent passives.

All is see is:

Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress, Dress

Nothing wrong with the DK. When was the last time you saw of Zerg of DK's rushing you in heavy armor with Two Handers? Because I'd be willing to bet large sums of money that has never [snip] happened.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Ghenra · August 2014

This ligth armor nerf is insufficient, more nerf is need and a real boost for heavy armor and stamina melee builds.

PlagueMonk · August 2014

MeowGinger wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Why are they nerfing light armor??? Have you noticed how 80% of people wear light armor? how light armor lets you have more damage and a better defense in most cases?

I think you answered your own question right there. If something is SO good that 80% of the people feel they need to use it rather than the other 2 armor types, something is out of whack. ALL armor types should be equally viable for all classes for different reasons and that is not happening right now.

And you are all QQing about 1-2% points?! Holy freakin crap! It's not as if they removed the ability, jeez. Why don't you try playing a NB with Siphoning strikes that removes 22% of your damage and then we will talk about your tiny nerf.

I wouldn't call 14% overall (pure light) tiny... if it is tiny then can I please have a 14% buff to my class damage?

I think the issue was that the 42% (maximum) spell penetration from light armor caused spell damage to completely bypass any other player's spell resistance, even when their SR was softcapped. You would expect spells to bypass only 42% of the player's existing SR. Since the mechanic itself seems broken, this change looks like a lazy quickfix.

Light armor may still be overpowered, or it may be balanced, or it may be overnerfed. It's too early to tell until players test out these changes.

As I was attempting to allude to, this is NOT like you are getting a straight damage nerf. 7-14% less spell penetration equates to what, roughly 5% less possible damage? Wow, big damn deal. Try an actual STRAIGHT 22% less damage before about bitching about such a trivial amount.

MeowGinger · August 2014

PlagueMonk wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Why are they nerfing light armor??? Have you noticed how 80% of people wear light armor? how light armor lets you have more damage and a better defense in most cases?

I think you answered your own question right there. If something is SO good that 80% of the people feel they need to use it rather than the other 2 armor types, something is out of whack. ALL armor types should be equally viable for all classes for different reasons and that is not happening right now.

And you are all QQing about 1-2% points?! Holy freakin crap! It's not as if they removed the ability, jeez. Why don't you try playing a NB with Siphoning strikes that removes 22% of your damage and then we will talk about your tiny nerf.

I wouldn't call 14% overall (pure light) tiny... if it is tiny then can I please have a 14% buff to my class damage?

I think the issue was that the 42% (maximum) spell penetration from light armor caused spell damage to completely bypass any other player's spell resistance, even when their SR was softcapped. You would expect spells to bypass only 42% of the player's existing SR. Since the mechanic itself seems broken, this change looks like a lazy quickfix.

Light armor may still be overpowered, or it may be balanced, or it may be overnerfed. It's too early to tell until players test out these changes.

As I was attempting to allude to, this is NOT like you are getting a straight damage nerf. 7-14% less spell penetration equates to what, roughly 5% less possible damage? Wow, big damn deal. Try an actual STRAIGHT 22% less damage before about bitching about such a trivial amount.

Whoa there, I didn't even *** about anything. Did your dog die? What got you in such a crappy mood?

And as far as the damage reduction from lower spell penetration goes, we don't know yet, because the 42% was probably not even working properly in the first place (it looks like the penetration/damage increase was much higher than intended).

PlagueMonk · August 2014

MeowGinger wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Why are they nerfing light armor??? Have you noticed how 80% of people wear light armor? how light armor lets you have more damage and a better defense in most cases?

I think you answered your own question right there. If something is SO good that 80% of the people feel they need to use it rather than the other 2 armor types, something is out of whack. ALL armor types should be equally viable for all classes for different reasons and that is not happening right now.

And you are all QQing about 1-2% points?! Holy freakin crap! It's not as if they removed the ability, jeez. Why don't you try playing a NB with Siphoning strikes that removes 22% of your damage and then we will talk about your tiny nerf.

I wouldn't call 14% overall (pure light) tiny... if it is tiny then can I please have a 14% buff to my class damage?

I think the issue was that the 42% (maximum) spell penetration from light armor caused spell damage to completely bypass any other player's spell resistance, even when their SR was softcapped. You would expect spells to bypass only 42% of the player's existing SR. Since the mechanic itself seems broken, this change looks like a lazy quickfix.

Light armor may still be overpowered, or it may be balanced, or it may be overnerfed. It's too early to tell until players test out these changes.

As I was attempting to allude to, this is NOT like you are getting a straight damage nerf. 7-14% less spell penetration equates to what, roughly 5% less possible damage? Wow, big damn deal. Try an actual STRAIGHT 22% less damage before about bitching about such a trivial amount.

Whoa there, I didn't even *** about anything. Did your dog die? What got you in such a crappy mood?

And as far as the damage reduction from lower spell penetration goes, we don't know yet, because the 42% was probably not even working properly in the first place (it looks like the penetration/damage increase was much higher than intended).

Ah but yet you did [snip] and demand they buff your damage by 14% to compensate for a 5% (or less) nerf. Or was that not you above in bold? And if indeed it was higher than intended, then this isn't a "nerf" but fixing something that wasn't intended in the first place.

And what has me in such a crappy mood is Zenimax's inability to fix/boost the NB's abilities to be equal to Sorc/DKs while at the same time continuing to nerf them in other areas. This small adjustment is nothing in comparison imho.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

MeowGinger · August 2014

PlagueMonk wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Why are they nerfing light armor??? Have you noticed how 80% of people wear light armor? how light armor lets you have more damage and a better defense in most cases?

I think you answered your own question right there. If something is SO good that 80% of the people feel they need to use it rather than the other 2 armor types, something is out of whack. ALL armor types should be equally viable for all classes for different reasons and that is not happening right now.

And you are all QQing about 1-2% points?! Holy freakin crap! It's not as if they removed the ability, jeez. Why don't you try playing a NB with Siphoning strikes that removes 22% of your damage and then we will talk about your tiny nerf.

I wouldn't call 14% overall (pure light) tiny... if it is tiny then can I please have a 14% buff to my class damage?

I think the issue was that the 42% (maximum) spell penetration from light armor caused spell damage to completely bypass any other player's spell resistance, even when their SR was softcapped. You would expect spells to bypass only 42% of the player's existing SR. Since the mechanic itself seems broken, this change looks like a lazy quickfix.

Light armor may still be overpowered, or it may be balanced, or it may be overnerfed. It's too early to tell until players test out these changes.

As I was attempting to allude to, this is NOT like you are getting a straight damage nerf. 7-14% less spell penetration equates to what, roughly 5% less possible damage? Wow, big damn deal. Try an actual STRAIGHT 22% less damage before about bitching about such a trivial amount.

Whoa there, I didn't even *** about anything. Did your dog die? What got you in such a crappy mood?

And as far as the damage reduction from lower spell penetration goes, we don't know yet, because the 42% was probably not even working properly in the first place (it looks like the penetration/damage increase was much higher than intended).

Ah but yet you did [snip] and demand they buff your damage by 14% to compensate for a 5% (or less) nerf. Or was that not you above in bold? And if indeed it was higher than intended, then this isn't a "nerf" but fixing something that wasn't intended in the first place.

And what has me in such a crappy mood is Zenimax's inability to fix/boost the NB's abilities to be equal to Sorc/DKs while at the same time continuing to nerf them in other areas. This small adjustment is nothing in comparison imho.

I was being facetious, actually, to point out that 14% isn't necessarily insignificant. I certainly did not make a demand. (Actually, I asked politely. I even said "please!") My joke was that 14% could be a large difference. I was not asking for a damage buff in compensation for this change.

Interestingly, my main is neither a DK nor a sorcerer. My class seems to be forgotten a lot and gets locked out of DPS roles for Craglorn. Templars aren't equal to DKs and sorcs, either (despite their PvP utility and support roles; they're poor damage dealers in comparison to the others). So...

Edit: I do feel bad for nightblades. That's no reason to lash out at other players who are joking around about the impact of a 14% change to anything, though.

Moderator Edit: Edited quote from moderated post.

Varicite · August 2014

Nova Sky wrote: »

Does this come about because some PvP folks were complaining? If so, once again a PvP issue screws up the game for players who primarily focus on PvE, particularly if new "trash" monsters are going to be dealing higher damage.

The armor debuff stacking is clearly a bug.

And while Light Armor is extremely prevalent in PvP, it's PvE where the vast majority of players are told to put a dress on or go home, at least for DPS.

Sadly, Light Armor is the best for tanking and healing as well, making all other armor types a pretty moot point.

But hey, you can blame PvP players, puppies, Martians, Dr. Who, or whatever else you like if that makes you feel better about yourself. : )

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs · August 2014

light armor nerf Mwahahahhahahahahahaha

aaaaaaaaaahahhahahahaha

aaaahaha
ha
haa
ha
aaah..

its only 2%
jeese

AshySamurai · August 2014

rusila22 wrote: »

Quote :
"Dragonknight

Ardent Flame
Burning Breath: The armor reduction debuff from this ability will no longer stack.

Players of TESO what do you think about that ??

I think it's not a nerf, but fix.

Kronosphere · August 2014

rusila22 wrote: »

Quote :
"Dragonknight

Ardent Flame
Burning Breath: The armor reduction debuff from this ability will no longer stack.

Armor

Light Armor
Concentration: This passive will now provide 2%/4% spell penetration instead of 3%/6%."

Currently (1.3.4) i really feel playing in DK light armor was good to play.

well in 1.4.0 we'll have new trash monsters dealing more high damage so i don't understand why are you nerfing DK and light armor.

Players of TESO what do you think about that ??

LOL please tell me you are trolling op. Someone take this guy to the shivering isles cuz he crazy. have u been living under a rock? light armor is so utterly and completely broken its not funny. its best for tanking, its best for dps, its best for healing. im so happy it finally gets a nerfing

MercyKilling · August 2014

About the whole "light armor" issue...I'm rather mystified as to why Zeni didn't go with a more logical approach to armor and protection. Light is light, therefore you can move faster but you get less protection.
Medium is a fair balance between mobility and protection, while heavy is just that. Heavy. Restrictive. But dear gods, can you tank wearing it. Heavy should offer the MOST protection but also perhaps impart a movement penalty, like costing more stamina to run/dodge in it. NOT BLOCK. Blocking is a different mechanic. Block incoming damage? You pay for it, point for point. 1 damage? 1 Stamina. 100 damage? 100 Stamina. Don't have enough to block it all? You only block what you have, and the rest is applied to the armor stat.

Logical. Simple. There should be tradeoffs for each armor weight type. Light won't stop damage as well as heavy, but you theoretically could move out of the way of the incoming blow easier.

Anyway...the upcoming changes....(if this isn't just rumor being spread) don't really bother me much anyway. I don't use either thing being nerfed.

Kvasir Silverpaw · August 2014

Nova Sky wrote: »

Does this come about because some PvP folks were complaining? If so, once again a PvP issue screws up the game for players who primarily focus on PvE, particularly if new "trash" monsters are going to be dealing higher damage.

Exactamundo !! the sqeaky wheel gets the grease..and that 10% is SQUEAKY

Kvasir Silverpaw · August 2014

thorntk421 wrote: »

I'm a DK and, think it's good idea. Armor debuff from BB shouldn't stack and, Light armor needs to be nerfed. Good step in the right direction.

A what? lvl 10 DK? No high level player agrees to nerfs of their own class.

Tabbycat · August 2014

It will be interesting to see what happens when light armor is nerfed to be on par with medium and heavy armor as they currently stand... without making any improvements to any armor type.

Varicite · August 2014

Kvasir Silverpaw wrote: »

Nova Sky wrote: »

Does this come about because some PvP folks were complaining? If so, once again a PvP issue screws up the game for players who primarily focus on PvE, particularly if new "trash" monsters are going to be dealing higher damage.

Exactamundo !! the sqeaky wheel gets the grease..and that 10% is SQUEAKY

Man, I'm glad those players exist, then.

If everyone were like you and the poster you quoted, nothing in this game would ever get fixed....

rusila22 · August 2014

@AshySamurai

AshySamurai wrote: »

rusila22 wrote: »

Quote :
"Dragonknight

Ardent Flame
Burning Breath: The armor reduction debuff from this ability will no longer stack.

Players of TESO what do you think about that ??

I think it's not a nerf, but fix.

Yes and no, ok i think it's good to nerf it for PVP but not for PVE.

@Kronosphere
"LOL please tell me you are trolling op. Someone take this guy to the shivering isles cuz he crazy. have u been living under a rock? light armor is so utterly and completely broken its not funny. its best for tanking, its best for dps, its best for healing. im so happy it finally gets a nerfing"

Are you kidding me ??? Light armor means you take high damage but you do high dps sorry to tell you that but i can't agree with the nerf. Just up medium and heavy armor and the problem is done.

Varicite · August 2014

rusila22 wrote: »

@AshySamurai

AshySamurai wrote: »

rusila22 wrote: »

Quote :
"Dragonknight

Ardent Flame
Burning Breath: The armor reduction debuff from this ability will no longer stack.

Players of TESO what do you think about that ??

I think it's not a nerf, but fix.

Yes and no, ok i think it's good to nerf it for PVP but not for PVE.

@Kronosphere
"LOL please tell me you are trolling op. Someone take this guy to the shivering isles cuz he crazy. have u been living under a rock? light armor is so utterly and completely broken its not funny. its best for tanking, its best for dps, its best for healing. im so happy it finally gets a nerfing"

Are you kidding me ??? Light armor means you take high damage but you do high dps sorry to tell you that but i can't agree with the nerf. Just up medium and heavy armor and the problem is done.

Actually, traited correctly, Light Armor is only marginally less tanky than Heavy, but w/ much higher Spell Resistance and WAY better passives. It doesn't mean "high dps but take high damage", it means "high dps and only a little more damage taken, but you can spam armor / spell resistance buffs all day anyway".

Kronosphere was correct when he said that it's currently the best for dps, tanking, and healing.

Also, saying that you don't want your broken ability fixed for PvE kind of makes it sound like you're just being selfish here, and hard to take seriously.

Wifeaggro13 · August 2014

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Why are they nerfing light armor??? Have you noticed how 80% of people wear light armor? how light armor lets you have more damage and a better defense in most cases?

Just proves the devs have no clue. Dont nerf light armor DPS. Reduce the survivability and armor cap

lathbury · August 2014

I'm on the fix medium and heavy side. I really want to use my medium armour in trials I don't see how this helps that. If anything it will make it worse because we took a few medium armour bow users tonight. The only reason we past valerial was because the light armour guys were pulling 1100 dps and picking up the slack. If they are also pulling lower numbers I think we may only be able to take 1 none dress and still pass the dps check. Don't get me wrong we will try but tonight was a close run thing I want to see stamina and magika builds capable of pulling big numbers with correct builds and rotation not all incapable.