How to increase PvE and PvP rewards while keeping crafting valid.

Rodario · August 2014

The easiest and most sensible way would of course be to introduce BoP plans for especially powerful sets, which would drop from bosses or be purchasable if you hold a certain rank. However, it does not seem they want recipes for gearcrafting, so I've devised another solution that will work with the current system.

Additional traits have been announced, yes? To me that means there will also be additional sets. Let's assume 10 traits and let's assume those new sets will be superior to current ones. Here's how I think it should go from there:

- Items holding those new traits should only drop from hard encounters in PvE or be awarded for a certain PvP rank and be BoP. Yes, they'll trickle down to everyone via trade, but considering research times, those who got them first will have a big head start and won't pay the initially high prices.

- Crafting stations for these new sets will be located in locked rooms to which only players with the necessary achievement/rank have access. Alternatively, for PvE, those rooms could be located behind main bosses and contain a wayshrine so you could return later.

I am not quite sure about the PvP rank requirement, as once you invested enough time and got to the neccessary (and permanent...) rank, you would have access to all future sets. Maybe the leaderboard rank plus a minimum AP (50k?) in the current campaign should be considered instead. Of course once you reach this leaderboard position, the room for the current set will stay unlocked.

Thanks for reading, discuss.

Rodario · August 2014

Rephrased the title, hopefully making the topic more appealing. I would really like to read people's opinions on this.

kitsinni · August 2014

Every time this has been discussed the thread gets flooded with "I don't want to PvE or PvP and I want to make the best gear in the game .. this is elder scrolls .. they promised I can make the best gear in the game!!!"

For some reason people think the easiest crafting sytem in the history of gaming should have the best gear and are really stuck on that idea.

The only thing I can think of to get around it is to have sets that need certain pieces to be looted and certain pieces crafted to complete a full set. That way the crafters can sell the pieces that can't be looted and can buy the ones that only can.

Another idea I had was to have upgrading tied to number of traits learned. Have a system where you can open a window with a crafter and they can upgrade a piece for you if they have a certain skill.

TehMagnus · August 2014

I totally agree with @kitsinni‌, IMO, the whole concept of: "The best gear won't be found, it will be crafted" is plainly ridiculous, especially when you see how ridiculously simple and easy to level up the crafting system is (and I'm glad ZOS hasn't been sticking to it).

There are so many crafters, so much people with 8 traits on everything, that if the best sets are crafted, there is no challenge, no incentive to keep going through content since anything can be easily obtained. It's been 4 months and a half since the game was released and I've already leveled all my crafting on my main char till level 50. I played Aion for years and never got that far...

Crafting should allow you to get good, viable gear. Some of the best gears should also be craftable, but the very best ones should be lootable or obtainable when having a high PVP rank/AP IMO, else people just loose interest...

KhajitFurTrader · August 2014

I really like the idea that crafting is and stays one of several sources of the best gear, regardless whether it's for leveling or for end-game content.

To craft is an option. Running vet dungeons or trials for gear is an option. Having the ability to choose between several sources of viable gear is good; you could even mix and match sources as you want.

Make one of those options mandatory, you not only take the other options away in that instant, you restrict players into a specific playstyle, which might be liked by a few, and spurned by many others.

Vuron · August 2014

I hate BoP, so I'm not even going to address that.

I think a simple solution would be to have dropped sets be pretty powerful, but you are limited to wearing 1 dropped set only. So, you'd have to combine a dropped set with crafted sets and everyone should be happy.

As everyone else said, crafting is so easy in this game that it's ridiculous. Something that takes no other effort than to stand in front of a crafting station hitting "R" a few hundred times should not give the same reward as spending time, gold, and effort to beat the hardest encounters in the game.

lathbury · August 2014

Good suggestion op

Tapio75 · August 2014

Players should need crafters to be competitive and efficient. This is how crafting will alwats sray interesting and viable option to play with.

Problem is that crafting takes too litle away from other aspects of game. It should be choice with consequences and small banks space is not serious consequence enough.

It should be something like you really need skillpoints to harvest, you really need points to craft, you need points to te,mper and so on.. You should need lots of points to be any good at crafting. Better yet if you could only carry weapons OR gathering tools with you. Not both, you would need someone to guard you when you gather or risk your life and losing your stuff, just like in EVE.

Every choice has an consequence and there are only choices in this game, not consequences.

istateres · August 2014

Is it really that hard?

A) Rewards should be ring / clasp based, something players CAN'T craft.

Crafting should have VR levels too (i.e. +50 levels)

C) The materials for +50 level crafting should be ONLY available as rewards for VR level questing (i.e. not harvestable, not botable).

This would make the rewards valuable, and crafting rewarding; but no longer easy to max (can you imagine the VR12 equivalent for Enchanting!). Even maxiing them would not allow you to make extreme gear as the mats would be quest based, so either you have to do them, OR you become the dedicated crafter for your guild and them funnel you the mats.

Rodario · September 2014

istateres wrote: »

Is it really that hard?

A) Rewards should be ring / clasp based, something players CAN'T craft.

Crafting should have VR levels too (i.e. +50 levels)

C) The materials for +50 level crafting should be ONLY available as rewards for VR level questing (i.e. not harvestable, not botable).

This would make the rewards valuable, and crafting rewarding; but no longer easy to max (can you imagine the VR12 equivalent for Enchanting!). Even maxiing them would not allow you to make extreme gear as the mats would be quest based, so either you have to do them, OR you become the dedicated crafter for your guild and them funnel you the mats.

@istateres‌

A) They have stated jewelcrafting is coming at some point, just not "soon".

C) If you're thinking of repeatable quest, ok. Otherwise mats would become too limited and at some point we'd be reliant on new characters completing them to provide mats. Or, in addition to quests, they'd be dropping from bosses.

Rodario · September 2014

Tapio75 wrote: »

Players should need crafters to be competitive and efficient. This is how crafting will alwats sray interesting and viable option to play with.

Problem is that crafting takes too litle away from other aspects of game. It should be choice with consequences and small banks space is not serious consequence enough.

It should be something like you really need skillpoints to harvest, you really need points to craft, you need points to te,mper and so on.. You should need lots of points to be any good at crafting. Better yet if you could only carry weapons OR gathering tools with you. Not both, you would need someone to guard you when you gather or risk your life and losing your stuff, just like in EVE.

Every choice has an consequence and there are only choices in this game, not consequences.

@Tapio75‌

I could get on board with that, if skill points were also acquired via crafting.

About the EVE thing: When I was still playing, I had two accounts, one for harvesting and one for protection. That was pretty fun, as harvesting alone is mindnumbingly boring. But this is off topic.

AoEnwyr · September 2014

Tapio75 wrote: »

Players should need crafters to be competitive and efficient. This is how crafting will alwats sray interesting and viable option to play with.

Problem is that crafting takes too litle away from other aspects of game. It should be choice with consequences and small banks space is not serious consequence enough.

It should be something like you really need skillpoints to harvest, you really need points to craft, you need points to te,mper and so on.. You should need lots of points to be any good at crafting. Better yet if you could only carry weapons OR gathering tools with you. Not both, you would need someone to guard you when you gather or risk your life and losing your stuff, just like in EVE.

Every choice has an consequence and there are only choices in this game, not consequences.

While you don't need skill points to harvest currently, it would be a hell of a job without the ones spent in making the nodes sparkly. Anyone who is seriously farming nodes (except probably runes) would have points in these.

You do need to spend skill points to increase the level of gear you can craft and also in tempering unless you want to be unnecessarily using large quantities of tempers.

Rodario · September 2014

UlanX wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

Players should need crafters to be competitive and efficient. This is how crafting will alwats sray interesting and viable option to play with.

Problem is that crafting takes too litle away from other aspects of game. It should be choice with consequences and small banks space is not serious consequence enough.

It should be something like you really need skillpoints to harvest, you really need points to craft, you need points to te,mper and so on.. You should need lots of points to be any good at crafting. Better yet if you could only carry weapons OR gathering tools with you. Not both, you would need someone to guard you when you gather or risk your life and losing your stuff, just like in EVE.

Every choice has an consequence and there are only choices in this game, not consequences.

While you don't need skill points to harvest currently, it would be a hell of a job without the ones spent in making the nodes sparkly. Anyone who is seriously farming nodes (except probably runes) would have points in these.

You do need to spend skill points to increase the level of gear you can craft and also in tempering unless you want to be unnecessarily using large quantities of tempers.

I only have that in alchemy, so I don't run past unnoticed columbines. I feel all other nodes are easily spotted with the naked eye and I don't like those fume effects everywhere.

LonePirate · September 2014

Vuron wrote: »

As everyone else said, crafting is so easy in this game that it's ridiculous. Something that takes no other effort than to stand in front of a crafting station hitting "R" a few hundred times should not give the same reward as spending time, gold, and effort to beat the hardest encounters in the game.

These words are amusing because of the willful ignorance contained within them. In order for crafters to hit that R button a few hundred times, they must first spend many hours collecting the necessary items for construction and deconstruction - far more time than players who collect top shelf fear from the trials bosses. Or players can spend tons of gold buying the items which completely destroys your point about crafters never needing gold to level their skills. Or course players could trade with another because this is an MMO after all.

Crafting is not so much a useful skill because higher levels are needed for top level gear. Crafting is useful for the traits that can be applied to items and for the 2-6 trait sets that can be crafted. Also, collecting these traits can be a challenge, at least given inventory limitations.

Once ZOS implements 8 or 9 or 10 trait sets that are actually useful, then you will see the value of crafters as no one has 8 traits researched on everything at this point.

Trema · September 2014

Traits have a reagent.

Motifs have a reagent.

Make rare/exclusive/earned sets require a reagent.

Problem solved!

GnatB · September 2014

*shrug*

IMO, nothing related to crafting should EVER be BoP (or equivelent)*

*exception being if there was some method of "sharing" resources to craft something. i.e. raid person who doesn't have the skill can provide the BoP mats, while the crafter can supply the standard mats (and skill) used to make the raid person the item. That said, I've (unfortunately) never seen a game with that type of system.

Rodario · September 2014

GnatB wrote: »

*shrug*

IMO, nothing related to crafting should EVER be BoP (or equivelent)*

*exception being if there was some method of "sharing" resources to craft something. i.e. raid person who doesn't have the skill can provide the BoP mats, while the crafter can supply the standard mats (and skill) used to make the raid person the item. That said, I've (unfortunately) never seen a game with that type of system.

I remember legendary items in vanilla WoW that were crafted using the system you describe. Note: Legendary was very special there, not standard max lvl equip quality.

Mondo · September 2014

PVP Ranks really?

Boring PVE Trial 15 minutes,
higher PVP Rank a week of farming?

That idea sucks