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2 skills are destroying Cyrodiil
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »AoEs are what help a small coordinated group beat a bigger disorganised one. You think without AoEs you'd survive 5v20?
"Wait.
Stand on me.
Swarms now. Spam AoE button 1 or 2.
See? We wiped them."
There's your skilled coordinated gameplay. For 5 year old kids.
Such a shame ZOS is allowing this to happen in their game.
You have your opinion and I have mine. My opinion is that if you get smashed by what you call a 2-button spam that says more about you than the people using it. Also like I said it's a good tactic against groups deploying mass AoE too.
Bat Swarm is a good ultie and Impulse a good AoE, don't get me wrong. I die to them too from time to time. But usually it involves far better coordination and tactics than what you describe. It usually involves a coordination of Streak and Negate from a Sorc (for the stun and inability to cast) as well some caltrops from someone to pin us down.
I personally use it on my Sorc but not on my DK. I consider the Standard a better ultie unless you play completely solo and have noone to activate the synergy. You'll be surprised how well CC stacking works if you can combine the Standard's Shackle synergy with a Sorc's Streak to pin people in place.
I think the only issue with the Bat Swarm is the very small cost (128 for my Sorc). If they want people to not use Bat Swarm so much they need to review the other DPS ulties to bring them inline is terms of cost or dmg:
* Nova is too expensive for no good reason, the cost needs to be dropped down to 200 like the Standard and Veil Of Blades.
* The VoB morph of Consuming Darkness is very good for PvE but not so for PvP. The other morph could benefit from a lower damage reduction (NBs are mostly DPS, not tanks!) in exchange for a CC+Dmg synergy like Shackle or SuperNova.
* Since the Atronach is pretty useless outside PvE, the Sorc's Power Overload needs to be given Stun/Knockdown immunity while channelling (like Rites of Passage) or else allow free movement. Preferrably both. Nobody is going to sit there and channel an ability for 6-7 secs if one Venom Arrow or Crushing Shock can stun them.
* Since they dropped the coefficients from 35% to 20% for the Standard they need to turn it back to a group ability instead of affecting just the caster. Maybe half the boost (10%) for the other people under it. Similar to what VoB does for the others inside it.
Thinking about it, with such high ultie generation in Cyrodiil, I think all ulties could do with an increase in cost instead of reduction. Maybe they should all be around 250-300 like Nova, instead of having their cost reduced. However the point remains they need to be more in line in terms of cost whether that's higher or lower than the current for some.Edited by Maulkin on August 18, 2014 11:55AMEU | PC | AD1 -
JLB✭✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »You have your opinion and I have mine. My opinion is that if you get smashed by what you call a 2-button spam that says more about you than the people using it. Also like I said it's a good tactic against groups deploying mass AoE too.
I've played PvP in other MMOs for years, and the amount of coordination you need to be succesful with your group is years ahead of AoEspamfest that Cyrodiil is.
And yes, AoE exists in other MMOs, and small groups that wipe big groups exist too. The difference is you really need to have good players, good strategy and real coordination. In Cyrodill you don't need any of those things to win.
There is no "group coordination" whatsoever in ESO zergballs. Sorry.
Question is, why allow such a simple buttonsmash tactic be so effective in a game that has it all to have the best PvP to date?
On the other hand, I think your suggestions to improve things in PvP are good, specially about increasing costs of Ultimates.Edited by JLB on August 18, 2014 12:31PM1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »You have your opinion and I have mine. My opinion is that if you get smashed by what you call a 2-button spam that says more about you than the people using it. Also like I said it's a good tactic against groups deploying mass AoE too.
I've played PvP in other MMOs for years, and the amount of coordination you need to be succesful with your group is years ahead of AoEspamfest that Cyrodiil is.
And yes, AoE exists in other MMOs, and small groups that wipe big groups exist too. The difference is you really need to have good players, good strategy and real coordination. In Cyrodill you don't need any of those things to win.
There is no "group coordination" whatsoever in ESO zergballs. Sorry.
Question is, why allow such a simple buttonsmash tactic be so effective in a game that has it all to have the best PvP to date?
On the other hand, I think your suggestions to improve things in PvP are good, specially about increasing costs of Ultimates.
I can't agree with the bolded part, sorry. You must have played in some really bad zerg-balls or not played in one at all. I had the pleasure of playing with one of the best (if not the best) zergballs on the EU server and as such I have personal experience that strongly contradicts your statement. The dmg of the zerg was caused by synergies and as BatSwarm and Impluse don't synergise, none of them were used by us.
Simple BatPulse zergs might be able catch out random people but they don't have nothing on groups that diversify their skills to maximise their effect. Invisible or not a Bat will still be stunned by a streak and immobilised by Talons or the Shackle. They still take more dmg than they deal by a few DKs using fragmented shields.EU | PC | AD0 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »You have your opinion and I have mine. My opinion is that if you get smashed by what you call a 2-button spam that says more about you than the people using it. Also like I said it's a good tactic against groups deploying mass AoE too.
I've played PvP in other MMOs for years, and the amount of coordination you need to be succesful with your group is years ahead of AoEspamfest that Cyrodiil is.
And yes, AoE exists in other MMOs, and small groups that wipe big groups exist too. The difference is you really need to have good players, good strategy and real coordination. In Cyrodill you don't need any of those things to win.
There is no "group coordination" whatsoever in ESO zergballs. Sorry.
Question is, why allow such a simple buttonsmash tactic be so effective in a game that has it all to have the best PvP to date?
On the other hand, I think your suggestions to improve things in PvP are good, specially about increasing costs of Ultimates.
Dont blame the game its a 5 skill at a time no cooldown game what do you expect. Chances are you only have about 2 skills that deal dmg on your bar. You guys better learn how to come up with more efficient builds. Both my wep swap bars only have 1 skill that deal any dmg the rest of the skills keep me alive and moving.1 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭its about the type of aoes that are powefull and dominant in ESO versus other games.
where ranged aoes are powerfull this discourages blobbing cos a spread out force can throw these powefull ranged aoes into the group. where as the group cant effectively target a spread out force cos they would be getting hit from all directions.
now in ESO its all about PB-aoe. this favors blobbing. cos a group can run around spamming without the need to target anything, and folk trying to counter it need to get close to use pb-aoe against it.
aoe caps need to go for sure , but its also the lack of decent ranged aoe that compounds the problem by increasing the power of blobbs while spread out forces lack the power to do enough damage from range to force it to spread out.0 -
Bramir✭✭✭✭As someone who rarely gets killed by these blob spammers, I just have a couple things to say.
1. Just because you are on teamspeak does not make you good. If the best you can do with teamspeak coordination is run around spamming AoEs, then you are definitely not good. Follow the leader and common sense accomplish the same thing if this is your tactic.
2. Players with good situational awareness have no trouble getting out of the way of these pathetic blobs. Avoiding death is not the point of Cyrodil. It is impossible to defend a flag against one of these blobs unless you have your own blob. Blobs are stupid and dumb down the game immensely.
3. The ability to build ultimate when not in combat by spamming heals is a broken mechanic. It does not make you good to always have your ultimate ready because of a broken mechanic.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭its about the type of aoes that are powefull and dominant in ESO versus other games.
where ranged aoes are powerfull this discourages blobbing cos a spread out force can throw these powefull ranged aoes into the group. where as the group cant effectively target a spread out force cos they would be getting hit from all directions.
now in ESO its all about PB-aoe. this favors blobbing. cos a group can run around spamming without the need to target anything, and folk trying to counter it need to get close to use pb-aoe against it.
aoe caps need to go for sure , but its also the lack of decent ranged aoe that compounds the problem by increasing the power of blobbs while spread out forces lack the power to do enough damage from range to force it to spread out.
Your points are all correct, I just see them from a different angle. Obviously the AoE cap that protects the crap zergballs needs to go, but I'm not a fan of huge-damage, ranged AoEs.
I don't see why games have to "discourage blobbing" or why blobbing is bad. There has to be some advantage in having bigger numbers, to go with the higher risk of a complete wipe. Medieval armies tended to stack loads of people is small areas (shield walls, spear walls etc). While their attacks were not exactly AoEs, well they were not really targeted either. I think there's merit in allowing this sort of play instead of discouraging it.
If you look around you'll notice coordinated groups of 5-6 players taking down zergs with 5-6 times their numbers through good tactics. People say "you tell me to roll out of batswarm, but what do I do if I want to keep the flag?". Well I always say, one well placed Negate, some Caltrops, couple of streaks for the AoE stun, two well placed oil pots and especially when you add some good AoE to the mix you can wipe huge numbers of people. If you can't do that then what makes you think you deserve to keep the flag against superior and better organised numbers? Is the PBAoE to blame?
If you want to test individual skill, reaction and such then duels and arenas will probably offer what you crave. I personally really enjoy the AvAvA action and some adjustments aside (AoE cap removed, ulties brought in line) I don't really want ZOS to push it too far down the 1v1 path.Edited by Maulkin on August 18, 2014 2:41PMEU | PC | AD2 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As someone who rarely gets killed by these blob spammers, I just have a couple things to say.
1. Just because you are on teamspeak does not make you good. If the best you can do with teamspeak coordination is run around spamming AoEs, then you are definitely not good. Follow the leader and common sense accomplish the same thing if this is your tactic.
2. Players with good situational awareness have no trouble getting out of the way of these pathetic blobs. Avoiding death is not the point of Cyrodil. It is impossible to defend a flag against one of these blobs unless you have your own blob. Blobs are stupid and dumb down the game immensely.
3. The ability to build ultimate when not in combat by spamming heals is a broken mechanic. It does not make you good to always have your ultimate ready because of a broken mechanic.
1. No, being on teamspeak does not make you good of course, but it makes you better organised. Which means it makes the group better and more efficient, if not the individuals. Your bolded part I disagree so much with, I find it almost as troll bait. Good and bad zergs will use AoEs. Small bomb groups and any group facing superior numbers will use AoEs. In fact I'd say if you run around in a group not using AoEs, then you're definitely bad. Are you telling me that a group of 20+ should attack in single target attacks? Seriously?
2. See my post above about how small groups not only hold but absolutely nail much bigger zergs in keeps and around flags. I see it all the time, 5-6 very good players wiping 24 man zergs around flags. I find it funny how so many people claim they are very good players but suffer against zergs due to bad game mechanics,when I see other small groups use the same mechanics to wipe those zergs.
3. I agreeEU | PC | AD1 -
Bramir✭✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »As someone who rarely gets killed by these blob spammers, I just have a couple things to say.
1. Just because you are on teamspeak does not make you good. If the best you can do with teamspeak coordination is run around spamming AoEs, then you are definitely not good. Follow the leader and common sense accomplish the same thing if this is your tactic.
2. Players with good situational awareness have no trouble getting out of the way of these pathetic blobs. Avoiding death is not the point of Cyrodil. It is impossible to defend a flag against one of these blobs unless you have your own blob. Blobs are stupid and dumb down the game immensely.
3. The ability to build ultimate when not in combat by spamming heals is a broken mechanic. It does not make you good to always have your ultimate ready because of a broken mechanic.
1. No, being on teamspeak does not make you good of course, but it makes you better organised. Which means it makes the group better and more efficient, if not the individuals. Your bolded part I disagree so much with, I find it almost as troll bait. Good and bad zergs will use AoEs. Small bomb groups and any group facing superior numbers will use AoEs. In fact I'd say if you run around in a group not using AoEs, then you're definitely bad. Are you telling me that a group of 20+ should attack in single target attacks? Seriously?
2. See my post above about how small groups not only hold but absolutely nail much bigger zergs in keeps and around flags. I see it all the time, 5-6 very good players wiping 24 man zergs around flags. I find it funny how so many people claim they are very good players but suffer against zergs due to bad game mechanics,when I see other small groups use the same mechanics to wipe those zergs.
3. I agree
1. I just don't see it as anything but 'follow the leader' without some tactical use of voicecomms. Basically you follow until you see the enemy and then you start spamming aoes when close enough. You do not need voicecomms to know to use your barrier and other group abilities when about to charge a keep, for example. Common sense will suffice...
2. The only time I ever see small groups wipe a large group near a flag, is when the smaller group is supported by the NPCs, which are going to seriously *** up non-v12s when aggroed. Most PUGs have numerous lower level toons in them...and we aren't talking about wiping PUGs anyway. The problem is you can't wipe an ultimate spamming zergball without your own ultimate spamming zergball...
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Ifthir_ESO✭✭✭✭✭If the best you can do with teamspeak coordination is run around spamming AoEs, then you are definitely not good
Good is irrelevant if they are winning by killing your side.2. Players with good situational awareness have no trouble getting out of the way of these pathetic blobs. Avoiding death is not the point of Cyrodil. It is impossible to defend a flag against one of these blobs unless you have your own blob. Blobs are stupid and dumb down the game immensely.
You make a point, then immediately contradict your own point. You can't "get out of the way" when they do it on the flags. Also, its not always easy to "get away" due to the lag the blobs cause. The problem in most cases is two fold.
1. Impulse is bad enough with AoE Damage + 10% health loss or nice ult generation from the DoT, the "explosion" part that seems to lag is just ridiculous in general.
2. Zergballers slotting immovable without a single heavy armor piece in their 30 man blob. Makes no sense.5. The ability to build ultimate when not in combat by spamming heals is a broken mechanic. It does not make you good to always have your ultimate ready because of a broken mechanic.
Totally agree here. Basically this feature makes it mandatory for anyone to slot Resto in both pvp/pve.
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »As someone who rarely gets killed by these blob spammers, I just have a couple things to say.
1. Just because you are on teamspeak does not make you good. If the best you can do with teamspeak coordination is run around spamming AoEs, then you are definitely not good. Follow the leader and common sense accomplish the same thing if this is your tactic.
2. Players with good situational awareness have no trouble getting out of the way of these pathetic blobs. Avoiding death is not the point of Cyrodil. It is impossible to defend a flag against one of these blobs unless you have your own blob. Blobs are stupid and dumb down the game immensely.
3. The ability to build ultimate when not in combat by spamming heals is a broken mechanic. It does not make you good to always have your ultimate ready because of a broken mechanic.
1. No, being on teamspeak does not make you good of course, but it makes you better organised. Which means it makes the group better and more efficient, if not the individuals. Your bolded part I disagree so much with, I find it almost as troll bait. Good and bad zergs will use AoEs. Small bomb groups and any group facing superior numbers will use AoEs. In fact I'd say if you run around in a group not using AoEs, then you're definitely bad. Are you telling me that a group of 20+ should attack in single target attacks? Seriously?
2. See my post above about how small groups not only hold but absolutely nail much bigger zergs in keeps and around flags. I see it all the time, 5-6 very good players wiping 24 man zergs around flags. I find it funny how so many people claim they are very good players but suffer against zergs due to bad game mechanics,when I see other small groups use the same mechanics to wipe those zergs.
3. I agree
1. I just don't see it as anything but 'follow the leader' without some tactical use of voicecomms. Basically you follow until you see the enemy and then you start spamming aoes when close enough. You do not need voicecomms to know to use your barrier and other group abilities when about to charge a keep, for example. Common sense will suffice...
2. The only time I ever see small groups wipe a large group near a flag, is when the smaller group is supported by the NPCs, which are going to seriously *** up non-v12s when aggroed. Most PUGs have numerous lower level toons in them...and we aren't talking about wiping PUGs anyway. The problem is you can't wipe an ultimate spamming zergball without your own ultimate spamming zergball...
1.
I've got a feeling you don't play in big zergs,because your barrier example could not be further from reality. You realise Barrier does not stack now do you? This is my experience:
The leader not only needs to call the barriers, but to allocate them too. Player x is barrier 1, Player y is barrier 2 and so on. Entering the keep the leader asks for barrier 1, but he keeps a close eye on the group shields. When the shield drops and depending on incoming damage he calls for barrier 2 and so on. He needs to be aware of the barriers available to him and try to keep one spare for emergencies like ambushes. Also the players need to let him know when their barrier is ready. He frequently asks for "barrier report" which means the barrier people need to tell him if their barrier is ready. No point shouting for "barrier 1 pleeease", if the person already communicated his barrier not being ready. If people just threw barriers at a whim that would be ulties being wasted
The same applies to Negates. You can Negate the NPCs at the flag but need to keep a really close eye at the NPCs. That's because Negates dispel other placed ulties including previous Negates. If you place a Negate at the flag and see the NPCs pop their heads up 2 secs later it means you been Negated at the flag and therefore you can't purge oil or heal dmg. The leader needs to shout for another Negate immediately or in the case of no more Negates available for Immovable (which at least allows casting through the Negate). Usually failure to react within a couple of secs will lead to a wipe. I've seen the flags be counter-Negated up to 3 times in a fight. Like with Barriers, the leader allocates them, asks for reports and controls their cast.
The above is just a glimpse of how much better, more survivable and more efficient a highly organised zerg is. A lot rests with the leader for sure. But don't underestimate the amount of training that goes into getting these things right. There's an element of skill involved even though it's different from that of 1v1 fights
2. Your statement "you can't wipe an ultimate spamming zergball without your own ultimate spamming zergball" is patently incorrect. It's easier to nail a zerg around the flag with the help of NPCs but that's not the only place this happens. It happens in choke points all over cyrodiil. Just cause you haven't done it, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.Edited by Maulkin on August 18, 2014 4:00PMEU | PC | AD1 -
Lfehova✭✭✭✭You don't need heavy armor to slot immovable.
And I use sword and board/destro and I do just fine.Characters: Hovaling/Lfehova/Hova-kun/Hovalicious
Class: DK/DK/Sorc/Templar
Guild: No Mercy
Alliance: Daggerfall
Characters after rename: BROVALING/Baka-kun/Brovalicious (Lfehova is now a retired DK and spends his days crafting)0 -
chimneyswift_ESO✭✭✭✭1. Bat Swarm: no comments
2. Pulsar: all the people have light armor and staff spaming this skill 1000 times in each fight (uber skilled gameplay, oh wait...).
If ZOS don't fix it, this is my last month in TESO.
Solution, Roll Dodge and get out of the AOE *facepalm* Not ZOS' fault...its yours.Ebonheart Pact
GM of Secret Order of Sotha Sil
Stam DK - Chimneyswift
NB Healer - Hist-and-Honey
Templar - Milvela Volos
Sorc - Thè Flash
For ESO builds & guides: http://www.ChimneySwift11.com
YouTube: youtube.com/ChimneySwift11
Twitch: https://twitch.tv/chimneyswift11
Facebook Gaming: http://www.fb.gg/ChimneySwift111 -
Bramir✭✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »As someone who rarely gets killed by these blob spammers, I just have a couple things to say.
1. Just because you are on teamspeak does not make you good. If the best you can do with teamspeak coordination is run around spamming AoEs, then you are definitely not good. Follow the leader and common sense accomplish the same thing if this is your tactic.
2. Players with good situational awareness have no trouble getting out of the way of these pathetic blobs. Avoiding death is not the point of Cyrodil. It is impossible to defend a flag against one of these blobs unless you have your own blob. Blobs are stupid and dumb down the game immensely.
3. The ability to build ultimate when not in combat by spamming heals is a broken mechanic. It does not make you good to always have your ultimate ready because of a broken mechanic.
1. No, being on teamspeak does not make you good of course, but it makes you better organised. Which means it makes the group better and more efficient, if not the individuals. Your bolded part I disagree so much with, I find it almost as troll bait. Good and bad zergs will use AoEs. Small bomb groups and any group facing superior numbers will use AoEs. In fact I'd say if you run around in a group not using AoEs, then you're definitely bad. Are you telling me that a group of 20+ should attack in single target attacks? Seriously?
2. See my post above about how small groups not only hold but absolutely nail much bigger zergs in keeps and around flags. I see it all the time, 5-6 very good players wiping 24 man zergs around flags. I find it funny how so many people claim they are very good players but suffer against zergs due to bad game mechanics,when I see other small groups use the same mechanics to wipe those zergs.
3. I agree
1. I just don't see it as anything but 'follow the leader' without some tactical use of voicecomms. Basically you follow until you see the enemy and then you start spamming aoes when close enough. You do not need voicecomms to know to use your barrier and other group abilities when about to charge a keep, for example. Common sense will suffice...
2. The only time I ever see small groups wipe a large group near a flag, is when the smaller group is supported by the NPCs, which are going to seriously *** up non-v12s when aggroed. Most PUGs have numerous lower level toons in them...and we aren't talking about wiping PUGs anyway. The problem is you can't wipe an ultimate spamming zergball without your own ultimate spamming zergball...
1.
I've got a feeling you don't play in big zergs,because your barrier example could not be further from reality. You realise Barrier does not stack now do you? This is my experience:
The leader not only needs to call the barriers, but to allocate them too. Player x is barrier 1, Player y is barrier 2 and so on. Entering the keep the leader asks for barrier 1, but he keeps a close eye on the group shields. When the shield drops and depending on incoming damage he calls for barrier 2 and so on. He needs to be aware of the barriers available to him and try to keep one spare for emergencies like ambushes. Also the players need to let him know when their barrier is ready. He frequently asks for "barrier report" which means the barrier people need to tell him if their barrier is ready. No point shouting for "barrier 1 pleeease", if the person already communicated his barrier not being ready. If people just threw barriers at a whim that would be ulties being wasted
The same applies to Negates. You can Negate the NPCs at the flag but need to keep a really close eye at the NPCs. That's because Negates dispel other placed ulties including previous Negates. If you place a Negate at the flag and see the NPCs pop their heads up 2 secs later it means you been Negated at the flag and therefore you can't purge oil or heal dmg. The leader needs to shout for another Negate immediately or in the case of no more Negates available for Immovable (which at least allows casting through the Negate). Usually failure to react within a couple of secs will lead to a wipe. I've seen the flags be counter-Negated up to 3 times in a fight. Like with Barriers, the leader allocates them, asks for reports and controls their cast.
The above is just a glimpse of how much better, more survivable and more efficient a highly organised zerg is. A lot rests with the leader for sure. But don't underestimate the amount of training that goes into getting these things right. There's an element of skill involved even though it's different from that of 1v1 fights
2. Your statement "you can't wipe an ultimate spamming zergball without your own ultimate spamming zergball" is patently incorrect. It's easier to nail a zerg around the flag with the help of NPCs but that's not the only place this happens. It happens in choke points all over cyrodiil. Just cause you haven't done it, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
1. I play in big groups about half the time, and the other half I solo (which for me usually means attaching myself to a group or attending a siege or siege defense).
Often the zerg about to engage the enemy gets one of its barriers from me if there isn't one already up. I am well aware it doesn't stack anymore.
You are making it sound like attacking the keep NPCs is difficult for a zergball. It is not. As long as your group is mostly V12s, you just need your players to pay attention and heal/dps as they normally do. If you get negated, get the *** out of it and keep doing your business...you should not need instructions to deal with such a simple mechanic. The only reason you could possibly get wiped by a small group is if your supposedly badass, coordinated zergball stands in a negate and lets it happen.
2. ***. You are either delusional or willing to say anything to 'prove' your point. Wiping a PUG raid filled with sub-v12 toons is not what we are talking about here.
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Bramir✭✭✭✭Ifthir_ESO wrote: »If the best you can do with teamspeak coordination is run around spamming AoEs, then you are definitely not good
Good is irrelevant if they are winning by killing your side.2. Players with good situational awareness have no trouble getting out of the way of these pathetic blobs. Avoiding death is not the point of Cyrodil. It is impossible to defend a flag against one of these blobs unless you have your own blob. Blobs are stupid and dumb down the game immensely.
You make a point, then immediately contradict your own point. You can't "get out of the way" when they do it on the flags. Also, its not always easy to "get away" due to the lag the blobs cause. The problem in most cases is two fold.
1. Impulse is bad enough with AoE Damage + 10% health loss or nice ult generation from the DoT, the "explosion" part that seems to lag is just ridiculous in general.
2. Zergballers slotting immovable without a single heavy armor piece in their 30 man blob. Makes no sense.5. The ability to build ultimate when not in combat by spamming heals is a broken mechanic. It does not make you good to always have your ultimate ready because of a broken mechanic.
Totally agree here. Basically this feature makes it mandatory for anyone to slot Resto in both pvp/pve.
You can very much get out of the way when a zergball hits a flag...you just give up the flag. The situational awareness part is that you need to be aware that if you are near the flag when the zergball gets there, you die. If you wait until it gets there and then expect to escape somehow...I'm sure it happens on occasion, but very rarely unless you are part of your own zergball.
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Ifthir_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
.You can very much get out of the way when a zergball hits a flag...you just give up the flag. The situational awareness part is that you need to be aware that if you are near the flag when the zergball gets there, you die. If you wait until it gets there and then expect to escape somehow...I'm sure it happens on occasion, but very rarely unless you are part of your own zergball.
Just to be clear, you are responding to one minor part of my post and saying "Sure you can avoid it". Isn't that like saying "you can avoid it by playing on another server, or another game.".
C'mon.
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Bramir✭✭✭✭Ifthir_ESO wrote: »
.You can very much get out of the way when a zergball hits a flag...you just give up the flag. The situational awareness part is that you need to be aware that if you are near the flag when the zergball gets there, you die. If you wait until it gets there and then expect to escape somehow...I'm sure it happens on occasion, but very rarely unless you are part of your own zergball.
Just to be clear, you are responding to one minor part of my post and saying "Sure you can avoid it". Isn't that like saying "you can avoid it by playing on another server, or another game.".
C'mon.
Probably because I agree with most of your post...
The point is that avoiding a zergball really isn't that hard...but since there is no way to harm the zergball once you have avoided it, except using the same tactics, this whole situation is well beyond people learning to play better.
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Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would love to see less ults in pvp.. i would to see less aoe spamming...PVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables2 -
Illumous✭✭✭Honestly, I'm just getting a little tired of seeing in my death recap four different players using Bat Swarms to kill me at the same time. I can deal with one or two of them at one, but at a certain point it gets a little ridiculous how many people stack them at the same time (not to mention you can use skills with a bat swarm up so Sorcerers just Bat Streak all over the place). I don't think Bat Swarm is too overpowered, but it should come with a much higher Ultimate cost like Nova has. Seems like an ultimate that cost far too little ulti for what it does.
I guess I wish players would use more diverse move pools than just Bats.Sol-Illumous | Breton Templar | Mag Support/Healer | EP
Sol-Ventus | Imperial Templar | Stam DPS | EP
Famìne | Argonian Templar | Mag Support/Healer | DC
NA Azura's Star (PC) - WCFC (Myrmidons) & Horsemen of Apocalypse0 -
Bramir✭✭✭✭Honestly, I'm just getting a little tired of seeing in my death recap four different players using Bat Swarms to kill me at the same time. I can deal with one or two of them at one, but at a certain point it gets a little ridiculous how many people stack them at the same time (not to mention you can use skills with a bat swarm up so Sorcerers just Bat Streak all over the place). I don't think Bat Swarm is too overpowered, but it should come with a much higher Ultimate cost like Nova has. Seems like an ultimate that cost far too little ulti for what it does.
I guess I wish players would use more diverse move pools than just Bats.
Who would have ever thought vampires would be problematic for game balance?
That is a separate issue in my opinion, though I agree with you it is annoying.
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synnerman✭✭✭✭Well tonight it certainly has ruined cyrodiil. Thornblade EU 10-20 lag around every impulse grp and abilities not even registering, I was spamming blazing spear and magicka didn't even move. We couldn't enter doors for 10-20 secs etc etc.
I really don't know what to say about the lack of action on this by ZoS , really disappointed by the devs reading these threads and no answers. I suppose I will vote with my sub sooner rather than later and its the same with my guildies, I suspect the pattern will be similar in other pvp guilds.1 -
Ghenra✭✭✭Yes, this is one of the most disappointing things, no response from devs and all the lamers using the same abilities (AoEs with Magicka builds) and Cyrodiil is turning boring because there are too many zergs spaming impulse fest + bat swarm.
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In the other hand, the stamina builds and heavy armor are underpowered against light armor and Magicka AoE fest, is really hard to play a DK with one handed weapon + shield/dual wield with heavy armor, but I play this kind of game because I want to play with tank, unfortunately, TESO can't brings me the possibility to play well and to be 100% effective in RvR, but I'm unable to play with dress and staff spaming AoE's without sense.1 -
Najarati✭✭✭Frankly, I'm less concerned with the skilled/unskilled argument and more frustrated with how repetitive things have become. Even when we successfully counter these impulse/bat swarm groups (and it's certainly doable) it's a hollow victory because more often than not in less than ten minutes I see the exact same thing again. And again. And again. And again. It just gets boring after a while, and even when I'm winning I'm not having fun.
For me,my enjoyment from PvP stems from its dynamism. If I wanted to see the same scripted behavior over and over again I'd go back to PvE.0 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »its about the type of aoes that are powefull and dominant in ESO versus other games.
where ranged aoes are powerfull this discourages blobbing cos a spread out force can throw these powefull ranged aoes into the group. where as the group cant effectively target a spread out force cos they would be getting hit from all directions.
now in ESO its all about PB-aoe. this favors blobbing. cos a group can run around spamming without the need to target anything, and folk trying to counter it need to get close to use pb-aoe against it.
aoe caps need to go for sure , but its also the lack of decent ranged aoe that compounds the problem by increasing the power of blobbs while spread out forces lack the power to do enough damage from range to force it to spread out.
Your points are all correct, I just see them from a different angle. Obviously the AoE cap that protects the crap zergballs needs to go, but I'm not a fan of huge-damage, ranged AoEs.
I don't see why games have to "discourage blobbing" or why blobbing is bad. There has to be some advantage in having bigger numbers, to go with the higher risk of a complete wipe. Medieval armies tended to stack loads of people is small areas (shield walls, spear walls etc). While their attacks were not exactly AoEs, well they were not really targeted either. I think there's merit in allowing this sort of play instead of discouraging it.
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medievil armies didn't stack folk at all. look at where battlefields were chosen if it was left to them , huge open spaces specifically to spread out. only where terrain demanded would they stack up cos no option was available.
conversely where would a smaller force choose to ambush a large army? choke points like valleys etc.. specifically cos the larger force wouldn't be able to spread out or flank them etc..
so i,m not sure which medievil armies your referring to that blobbed. shiltroms might be form of blobbing. but it was more a defencive tactic cos to maintain the turtle it would be virtually static and was more about area denial than attack.
but a shiltrom or blobb that moved around at high speed spamming damage in all directions versus an army that had no ranged aoe like cannons or catapault etc. is like having a sherman tank roll round at the battle of hastings.
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krim✭✭✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »AoEs are what help a small coordinated group beat a bigger disorganised one. You think without AoEs you'd survive 5v20?
"Wait.
Stand on me.
Swarms now. Spam AoE button 1 or 2.
See? We wiped them."
There's your skilled coordinated gameplay. For 5 year old kids.
Such a shame ZOS is allowing this to happen in their game.
* The VoB morph of Consuming Darkness is very good for PvE but not so for PvP. The other morph could benefit from a lower damage reduction (NBs are mostly DPS, not tanks!) in exchange for a CC+Dmg synergy like Shackle or SuperNova.
Bad for pvp you say? How dare you tell me how to play my nightblade.
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Cyrdemaceb17_ESO✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »5 piece set of heavy armor =40%-60% aoe damage reduction would be a start.
Interesting idea!1 -
Columba✭✭✭✭✭
✭Clearly the trolling skill is wrecking pvp. I am told on a regular basis that I ruin everyone's pvp experience. I don't really get it.0
