For me rewards is the only thing that hold me in game. And bad itemization is the reason i unsubbed.
After reaching VR12 and completed all zones (not for XP or something, just.... i dont even know why) i found my self bored and have nothing to do.
There is no late game in this game. Yes, Craglorn Trials are somewhat nice. They require coordination and have some mechanics.
However, loot there are complete junk. Reward for weekly quest and Leaderboard place is the same (WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY??!!?!?!?).
So i found myself bored doing trials also, becase i recieve no reward for my efford. Only junk which i will decon.

PVP design are also crap. After i found out that the reward for PVP are just some bunch of gold i didnt even entered PVP onces.
Also there are no good items as reward aswell. Only 2 viable sets which give 10% spell or weapon crits.

So yeah, i unsubbed because i have no interest in doing either PVP or Trials/Vet Dungeons because i recieve no adequate reward.

P.S. If only that Light Armor set in Trials gave atleast 5% crit instead of 1% i would totally farm it like crazy. But for now it is worse then crafted gear which is silly.

Here's my opinion, which I think is not just an opinion, but fact since I've seen my guild of personal friends go from about 10 players on at a time(more than 10 in the guild), to just me. I hope anything I mention has not been mentioned in this thread, but some were just too long to read or just ranting.

1. Grouping!: My friends and I don't want to just group in instanced dungeons or wait to VR content. We want to group all the way through the game. We thought this game was off the hook in the beginning. Once we found out that we couldn't stay grouped for the world being instanced, slowly but surely they started to find other games to play. I thought I read they were gonna fix it, but maybe I read wrong.
2. Auction House: I don't know what ideas they had or have for the economy, but it ain't working. I think this game desperately needs an AH. Most every MMO I've played had one. It's not only a way to sell your goods, but that's kinda of some peoples outlet or hobby. Some people craft and some people like to wheel and deal.

I'm gonna stop there. It think those are two very important things that will bring people back or maybe(hopefully) keep the people that are still here.

If you want me back as a customer than make templars useful, completely redesign stamina as a resource for skills, and make veteran leveling more engaging with less empty areas.

Vivecc wrote: »

i dont see the need for better loot, awesome drops. just wait until the "gifts" of the daedra are implemented. Well, there can be only one specific item for the most, but this stuff is surely better than gold-gear.

Is it just me or did you just say you don't see the need for loot....and then point out to wait for loot????

With a portion of this thread sliding off topic...to get back on track. ..I played the vet level today...and yes there were more people in the zone I was in...so that was a good sign...I didn't 1 hit anything and it seemed there were more monsters around...at 1 point I had 6 attackers...I died a few times because of my inattention to some issues....like still being attacked by the killer invisible monsters...but still the same lack of awe or thrill of finding something of value...my main feeling is still the most important...no matter nerf or not...The thrill of finding new and better loot is just not there...The excitement of finding some obscured hut housing some long forgotten treasure....The rush of killing a boss and basking in the rewards....it is just lacking in teso....way back in ansi days even then with no graphics it was always about continually upgrading your equipment and gold and the thrill of finding that rare reward that kept you playing...any game it was the difference your hard work allowed you to be better....eso just gives this gift to everyone...my lvl 50 blacksmith makes armor and weapons no better then your lvl 50 blacksmith...I have all motifs...you have all motifs....there's nothing better in the game to get....so no excitement left to find for now...hopefully this simple insight of a overlooked staple in gaming finds someone ears at zenimax, and the light bulb will click in someone's head saying..." yeah let's add some great and special gear to get everyone excited again"

Rivqua wrote: »

Loot will not make any changes to a mmo. It will take a week and everyone will have that weapon or the armor and then you are just one in a bunch that have that weapon and armor and the QQ band wagon will start all over again.
My 2 cent

That's correct..maybe more then a week...but you said it would take everyone....meaning that more people might be more inclined to play for that time to get the rarer item...Clearly events can also offer incentives. Like all drops and loot it should always be better then the last.

So question...would you play more if you could get a Skyrim style daedric armor with 2 enchantment slots per piece that could only be found in cold harbor...and only drop for 10 days?

Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »

Evergnar wrote: »

I'm not sure carrots, of any size, will get people to come back. Maybe some. What they need is an event (w/ carrots if you like). Something that would not only draw someone back but their friends as well.

This.

Gamers are a fickle crowd. You get 1 chance. It is at release. Along with release, gamer's will generally give a week or 2, a month at the longest (first months sub) for leeway with bugs, glitches, hacks and other unforeseen issues. After that, attention span along with the gamer is gone. Too many other titles out there that get it right in the span of time it takes for players to decide whether or not it is for them.

Even the big companies know, short of adding shops/ micro transactions or complete new additions to game, there is no big pull for players outside of expansions. Expansions are hard to support or justify, financially, when the initial audience has dwindled.

It is a shame for the ES line, maybe this one can be written off in the future to es followers as the step child of the series but it has had far too many bumps and bruises to recover long term.

You have a lot longer than a month to hold onto people from release. The real measure is where you are at 6 months. The people leaving at 2 weeks or a month are either "tourists" that habitually ditch games because they're never satisfied with anything, or malcontents that either don't like the game or had their mind made up not to like the game, and really are there to say they quit in favor of some other game they really want to play.

In ESO's case, it also released going from spring to summer, so it takes a hit there as well because summer is traditionally lower-involvement time for MMOs.

This game is really doing just fine; the complaints here are nothing you don't see with every game. MMO players just love to freak out about every problem. I'm sure someone is going to bring up bugs, but unless you played Vanguard: Saga of Heros at release you haven't seen buggy. This is nothing.

"You can't cast magic IRL either so your point is ridiculous. It's a video game and should be designed with TES in mind, not a bunch of generic clone titles. I will never buy anything from anyone in this game because I shouldn't have to. Again, I don't give a *** what other mmo's did. I don't play TES for some cheap attempt to participate in a fake economy. I play for action and lore. I wish the devs would just focus on what made TES great because it was those titles that made this game, not the MMO genre."

Sounds like this fellow just needs to wait for another single player TES title to release. Who knows, maybe the next one will be a co-op type game, where 4 or 5 of your friends can join you in game. Hell, I'd play that one for sure. I'm not sure what this game is, but its certainly not a usual MMO and its also not a TES single player title. As long as the developers keep trying to make it both, they will continue to have problems.

The lore was okay as I played through my first character, but once that toon was at max level, I didn't see the point of logging into him anymore: if all I'm looking for is to partake of the lore, then once consumed it becomes useless.

As for me, I'm getting extremely bored. The rewards are lackluster, and that's being kind. I like TES titles, but I love MMO's. The developers need to ask themselves which market they're trying to tap into. If it's the TES market, then they're coming out of the gate limited. Those titles, even in their best form, are only good until the content is consumed. Once that's done, players move on - even the die-hard ones. Progression is the key to keeping the MMO types satisfied.

Remember that I'm an MMO player who likes TES titles...and I'm not as happy with the game as it sits. I'm not going anywhere yet though, call me hard-headed, but my wish is that the light will come on at Zenimax and they'll start getting some things right at some point. But first, they have to realize that this is an MMO and start treating it like one.

This game is missing:
The feeling of progression; reasonable rewards that are in balance with the content; a global auction house to help support a vibrant, active economy; meaningful end-game content (raids that you don't have to rush through - thereby missing out on that 'dungeon crawling' feeling); vanity items (the trick should be figuring out how to implement vanity items that are in sync with the TES world, not simply leaving them out because they don't fit); unique'ish items (they don't have to be overpowered - but making them glow or pulse lightening or have some other effect should be part-and-parcel of the 'coolness' or 'vanity' factor).

A few things they could do now - to stop the bleeding (so to speak):
Add those cool items into the end-game content (like the ones available in the level 35'ish content - Eastmarch); have a specific loot table for bosses (and make the items cool man...come on); increase the availability of gold tempering items; change the 5 dungeon paradigm (if you insist on keeping the 'auction house work around' in place then limit each player to 1 main guild and 2 trade guilds. The main guild is the one you've decided you want to throw your lot in with. As it sits, no guildie has any motivation to devote time and effort into one guild when so many are available. This has the effect of denying the formation of those close knit groups wherein you build relationships and experience comradery. If guild one isn't getting it done, then I'll just go on to guild two - if guild two isn't making it - then I'll go to guild three. "Wait, who was that guy that just completed the trial?" "I have no idea man, he's in one of the 36 guilds I'm in though, so I guess I have to be inundated with notices telling me about what he's accomplished."

I'd love to say to my 3 or 4 friends, "Let's go run 'Bad-Ass Alcove and see if we can't get that epic two-handed sword you've been looking for man." Not, "Hey, let's go run around and get random crap from random bosses inside random dungeons, because as you know, you can't predict where anything will drop...ever." How am I supposed to build the perfect toon that feels epic and sort of unique when everything is so...well you know...random...aside from crafting with it's six months (of real time) research etc.

OFF TOPIC:
I'm in a small guild with a few friends and I would love to see something like this...

A dungeon run that takes some time to get through. Think of it a short story come to life. It should take several hours, if not days, to get through. It would have creative characters, a meaningful, lore appropriate story line, and engaging mechanics that are hard (but not impossible) to get through. There should be obvious stopping points along the way, so we can take breaks and resume the adventure at some future time - think of it as dungeon which has save-points. Have this - adventure dungeon - capable of a bit of 'behind the scenes' customization: have it change a little in number of mobs, boss difficulty etc. - in order to be consumed by 3, 6, or 9 players. So no matter who you have available to play with, you still get to run it. (One tank, one healer, one dps/One tank, one healer, four dps/One tank, one off-tank, two healers, five dps.) There should be some unique rewards available for these dungeons, but nothing that will break balance. Think - mounts, costumes, interesting emotes, maybe a cool motif, a really special, story-related trophy, or access to a special crafting area (only available if you've completed the adventure dungeon). I'd like something that I can sink my teeth into...not something I have run through as fast as I can.

Some really great ideas in this thread...hopefully someone will take notice...I agree with other games it was always teaming up with friends to get items...it was never in this game from beginning. The closest it got was when people were spawn camping dungeons. ..."I got a xxxx set piece, anyone need that?" That feeling of gaining and working for rewards just didn't come through. I see that rewards are something they are addressing...and from the PTS side it seems new armors and weapons look good...and maybe we can get "dye" raid groups to help achievement unlockables. ..so there's hope.
If anyone has played the pts lately you get to see a bunch of great things...different looking weapons...armors......jewlery...set bonuses and of course the dyes. So looks promising that rewards will play a part in near future...

This game hasn't crashed any more then any other game I own...titanfall crashes more and has longer load times.
What you say would keep you interested is rewards (player housing) and more social would create more people in game to be social with....lol

Elad13 wrote: »

How about giving better rewards? After all that's what people want...to feel an extreme rush of finding a super great item....This game lacks that sensation at every turn....no one cares if vet zones are harder...If the drops are worth the fight then more people would be happy to team up....don't clutter the struggling world with useless crap....like useless white items....fill it with bind on pick up or bound gold items...When a hirling brings in better drops then a storyline boss....no one wants to play. That sense of "look what I found" is not in this game at any level...other then the motif books...and that's only exciting because you know you can at least sell it to pay for repairing your armor from fighting mudcrabs.
Better rewards even yielding higher sale prices...tthat's how you excite the masses of rpg/mmo. Fill up the areas because they are worth the effort...not because you have to replay other factions....no one on this forum could say "this needs to be easier" when they get a purple or gold uncraftable styled 500 armor chest piece for the battle...or find a hidden book giving 5 skill points....or open some chest in a dungeon that pops out some awesome looking glowing effect sword doing 200 damage with a 40% critical chance.

How about no, the min/Max crowd will dedicate their lives to getting these and make the imbalance worse.

Actually I take it back, better loot would be good and the min maxxers get good gear any way as this is how they feel better about themselves.

I am in favor of better rewards. I could even go for a commendation system. You get a commendation for completing a dungeon/delve/ect. There would be a vender that takes those commendation. I typically do not like commendation systems, but anything if better than nothing.

Solid, interesting content will get people to run through it a few times. However, to keep people running through something for an extended amount of time, their needs to be some better rewards.

I 100% fully agree with the OP. Unfortunately ZOS promised the crafters and the casuals that crafted gear would always be the best possible gear in the game. Those of us who like the idea of getting a best in slot rare drop from a boss mob or long quest chain are out of luck.