Fleymark wrote: »

What you are describing is virtually impossible. The only remotely possible way I could see doing it is if you are in a dedicated provisioning guild and there are always recipes available. In which case I will LOL because I guarantee you bought your recipes from guildies who are farming them. That's the blues. With the purples you either are playing on some fantasy server where every recipe is available all the time unlike the NA server I'm on AND purchased gold to buy them with, the ultimate form of bottom feeding cheating, OR you are peddling a falsehood here. I suspect the latter, because you simply cannot find every blue and purple available for sale over months much less weeks. And if you aren't a cheater there's no way to afford them if you did.

You are building a lot of self made excuses for your cheating.

Deal with it, those with a modicum of patience and capability to actually *make money* with provisioning and other crafts, had full bag expansion and a number of bank expansions and the recipes, while you were still figuring out how to circumvent the system.

Vahrokh wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

What you are describing is virtually impossible. The only remotely possible way I could see doing it is if you are in a dedicated provisioning guild and there are always recipes available. In which case I will LOL because I guarantee you bought your recipes from guildies who are farming them. That's the blues. With the purples you either are playing on some fantasy server where every recipe is available all the time unlike the NA server I'm on AND purchased gold to buy them with, the ultimate form of bottom feeding cheating, OR you are peddling a falsehood here. I suspect the latter, because you simply cannot find every blue and purple available for sale over months much less weeks. And if you aren't a cheater there's no way to afford them if you did.

You are building a lot of self made excuses for your cheating.

Deal with it, those with a modicum of patience and capability to actually *make money* with provisioning and other crafts, had full bag expansion and a number of bank expansions and the recipes, while you were still figuring out how to circumvent the system.

I don't cheat. Nor am I "circumventing" anything. I'm playing the game the way it was designed. How do I know this? Because they officially said this...

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This is not something we consider an exploit or bannable offense. Though it's working as designed, we do intend to make some improvements to the current design.

From this thread in April:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/87214/need-confirmation-is-motif-farming-a-bannable-offense/p2

Wish it to be otherwise all you want, but your preferences to the contrary are nothing more than your own personal opinion that the devs, obviously, do not share. Theirs is the only one that matters in light of the Jessica post. Sorry.

And I'm still calling BS. It is simply impossible to find every purple recipe for sale in the timeframe you describe and to farm the amount of cash needed to buy them even if you did in the timeframe you describe. Or the blues for that matter. Lots of blues for sale, but we are talking 6 every 5 levels starting at level 10. Stop insulting our intelligence. We didn't just fall off a truck.

You really need to come to grips with the fact that you are dead wrong about this, that we know you are making half if what you say up, and just move on.

Fleymark wrote: »

KariTR wrote: »

I've read it. They are basically saying they screwed up the design (my take - because people were using it in a way that was not intended) which is why we have seen so many 'improvements' since April.

They've nerfed other things, too. Is that everyone else's fault, giving one segment of players who like one playstyle licence to tell another that likes a different playstyle how to play, or is it part of tuning the game?

Could be, but in light of the official post, I go with what they actually say rather than what my own personal tastes make me wish they said.

People are so entrenched in the belief that there is something wrong with this that even when shown an official post that settles the matter they still don't believe it. Denial is a powerful thing, apparently.

Pretty funny, really.

When they say farming isn't intended, I'll stop doing it. But until then they have said it is, so I will. I started doing it because they said it was part of the game design. LOL

If you want the drops maybe you should too.

The difference between "designed" and "intended" is pretty cut and dry here. "Working as intended" is a convienient phrase for your reasoning when in fact "working as designed" is what the devs say.

It is a very clear distinction unless you turn a blind eye. They are basically saying "We screwed up and failed to recognize the unforeseen side effect of the phasing system in regards to how it effects container drops. We cannot change this system therefore it would be impractical to consider it a violation or a banable offense. Logging to farm containers is an unforeseen consiquence of the way our system is designed".

Now of course they will never say that. But reasonable evaluation of their response makes it pretty clear. I challenge you to a supply a quote from a developer saying they intended us to log in and out in order to farm containers. You won't find it. The best you can provide is that the phasing and logging system is working "as designed".

So again, if you're going to do it then fine, but quit trying to use the same quote to convince yourself and others that they envisioned everyone logging out 50 times a day in order to easily find rare items. Just admit that you are taking advantage of the situation and move on.

I only hope they can find a true solution to the problem besides blanket nerfs though so that people playing the game as intended ( checking containers they come across in their travels) actually have a reasonable chance to find rare motifs.

Alphashado wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

KariTR wrote: »

I've read it. They are basically saying they screwed up the design (my take - because people were using it in a way that was not intended) which is why we have seen so many 'improvements' since April.

They've nerfed other things, too. Is that everyone else's fault, giving one segment of players who like one playstyle licence to tell another that likes a different playstyle how to play, or is it part of tuning the game?

Could be, but in light of the official post, I go with what they actually say rather than what my own personal tastes make me wish they said.

People are so entrenched in the belief that there is something wrong with this that even when shown an official post that settles the matter they still don't believe it. Denial is a powerful thing, apparently.

Pretty funny, really.

When they say farming isn't intended, I'll stop doing it. But until then they have said it is, so I will. I started doing it because they said it was part of the game design. LOL

If you want the drops maybe you should too.

The difference between "designed" and "intended" is pretty cut and dry here. "Working as intended" is a convienient phrase for your reasoning when in fact "working as designed" is what the devs say.

It is a very clear distinction unless you turn a blind eye. They are basically saying "We screwed up and failed to recognize the unforeseen side effect of the phasing system in regards to how it effects container drops. We cannot change this system therefore it would be impractical to consider it a violation or a banable offense. Logging to farm containers is an unforeseen consiquence of the way our system is designed".

Now of course they will never say that. But reasonable evaluation of their response makes it pretty clear. I challenge you to a supply a quote from a developer saying they intended us to log in and out in order to farm containers. You won't find it. The best you can provide is that the phasing and logging system is working "as designed".

So again, if you're going to do it then fine, but quit trying to use the same quote to convince yourself and others that they envisioned everyone logging out 50 times a day in order to easily find rare items. Just admit that you are taking advantage of the situation and move on.

I only hope they can find a true solution to the problem besides blanket nerfs though so that people playing the game as intended ( checking containers they come across in their travels) actually have a reasonable chance to find rare motifs.

The denial is strong with this one.

He's even inventing developer "intentions" that contradict what they've said, based on how they used one word other than "intended." It's amazing how pseudo logic can be twisted to interpret ones beliefs as facts and then inject that in to a completely contradictory statement disguised as an interpretation of the statement. An entirely clear and unambiguous statement at that.

LOL. Just LOL.

Sure, dude, it could be that the Jessica post was some deeply encrypted message that meant completely the opposite of what it said. LOL

Or we could come back down to reality, and just accept what it says and move on.

And please quote or link a thread where it is officially stated that "checking containers they come across in their travels" exclusively is what is officially intended. LOL. Just because you and the rest of the "play my way or you are WRONG" cadre think that what you prefer is one in the same as what is "intended" does not make it so. The egotistical sanctimony on some of you guys is nothing short of astounding. Quote or link or it's simply not the case.

Of course, by your logic that would mean it's not the case, I'm sure. ROFL

Fleymark wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

KariTR wrote: »

I've read it. They are basically saying they screwed up the design (my take - because people were using it in a way that was not intended) which is why we have seen so many 'improvements' since April.

They've nerfed other things, too. Is that everyone else's fault, giving one segment of players who like one playstyle licence to tell another that likes a different playstyle how to play, or is it part of tuning the game?

Could be, but in light of the official post, I go with what they actually say rather than what my own personal tastes make me wish they said.

People are so entrenched in the belief that there is something wrong with this that even when shown an official post that settles the matter they still don't believe it. Denial is a powerful thing, apparently.

Pretty funny, really.

When they say farming isn't intended, I'll stop doing it. But until then they have said it is, so I will. I started doing it because they said it was part of the game design. LOL

If you want the drops maybe you should too.

The difference between "designed" and "intended" is pretty cut and dry here. "Working as intended" is a convienient phrase for your reasoning when in fact "working as designed" is what the devs say.

It is a very clear distinction unless you turn a blind eye. They are basically saying "We screwed up and failed to recognize the unforeseen side effect of the phasing system in regards to how it effects container drops. We cannot change this system therefore it would be impractical to consider it a violation or a banable offense. Logging to farm containers is an unforeseen consiquence of the way our system is designed".

Now of course they will never say that. But reasonable evaluation of their response makes it pretty clear. I challenge you to a supply a quote from a developer saying they intended us to log in and out in order to farm containers. You won't find it. The best you can provide is that the phasing and logging system is working "as designed".

So again, if you're going to do it then fine, but quit trying to use the same quote to convince yourself and others that they envisioned everyone logging out 50 times a day in order to easily find rare items. Just admit that you are taking advantage of the situation and move on.

I only hope they can find a true solution to the problem besides blanket nerfs though so that people playing the game as intended ( checking containers they come across in their travels) actually have a reasonable chance to find rare motifs.

The denial is strong with this one.

He's even inventing developer "intentions" that contradict what they've said, based on how they used one word other than "intended."

LOL. Just LOL.

Sorry but you are the one in denial. You keep insisting that the developers intended for you to log out 100 times a day in order to easy aquire rare items. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

The best you can do is supply a quote saying it isn't a banable offense because the system is working as it was designed. That is not even close to how you are twisting it. Again I challenge you to prove that anyone from zos intended us to circumvent the rare drops by logging out over and over. You can't do it.

The quote you keep plastering everywhere like some holy relic only says they screwed up and won't punish us for their mistake.

Do you REALLY think a developer of ANY game would say "hmm let's make it so that if they logout 100 times a day, they get all the rare stuff super easy!"

If you believe that, then YOU are the one in denial because it is OUTLANDISH to believe any developer would do that on purpose. I mean really. You are just making yourself sound silly.

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

KariTR wrote: »

I've read it. They are basically saying they screwed up the design (my take - because people were using it in a way that was not intended) which is why we have seen so many 'improvements' since April.

They've nerfed other things, too. Is that everyone else's fault, giving one segment of players who like one playstyle licence to tell another that likes a different playstyle how to play, or is it part of tuning the game?

Could be, but in light of the official post, I go with what they actually say rather than what my own personal tastes make me wish they said.

People are so entrenched in the belief that there is something wrong with this that even when shown an official post that settles the matter they still don't believe it. Denial is a powerful thing, apparently.

Pretty funny, really.

When they say farming isn't intended, I'll stop doing it. But until then they have said it is, so I will. I started doing it because they said it was part of the game design. LOL

If you want the drops maybe you should too.

The difference between "designed" and "intended" is pretty cut and dry here. "Working as intended" is a convienient phrase for your reasoning when in fact "working as designed" is what the devs say.

It is a very clear distinction unless you turn a blind eye. They are basically saying "We screwed up and failed to recognize the unforeseen side effect of the phasing system in regards to how it effects container drops. We cannot change this system therefore it would be impractical to consider it a violation or a banable offense. Logging to farm containers is an unforeseen consiquence of the way our system is designed".

Now of course they will never say that. But reasonable evaluation of their response makes it pretty clear. I challenge you to a supply a quote from a developer saying they intended us to log in and out in order to farm containers. You won't find it. The best you can provide is that the phasing and logging system is working "as designed".

So again, if you're going to do it then fine, but quit trying to use the same quote to convince yourself and others that they envisioned everyone logging out 50 times a day in order to easily find rare items. Just admit that you are taking advantage of the situation and move on.

I only hope they can find a true solution to the problem besides blanket nerfs though so that people playing the game as intended ( checking containers they come across in their travels) actually have a reasonable chance to find rare motifs.

The denial is strong with this one.

The irony...

No, irony would be telling someone who can quote evidence to back up their argument clearly and unequivocally that the quote really means the opposite of what it means, tell them that they are rationalizing around the true meaning through pseudo logic and conjecture, then state as fact their opposite opinion while offering absolutely no evidence of their own that refutes the originally quoted evidence.

And doing so with a straight face.

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Where I actually stopped caring was when someone explained that it's not the timers for rare items that get reset, only the containers.

Can someone who is certain confirm? Does logging out only reset the containers, but still keep the timers on items you get such as motifs and recipes?

If that's the case, even if resetting the containers is a small way of bypassing having to move to a new area, it's not a big deal since you can only acquire these things once every so many hours.

If the timers stay on rare item, you probably make more gold killing mobs of NPC's over and over. The rare item timers make the difference between a big exploit and some insignificant way to get more containers of useless junk.

To a certain extent. But it's the first one discovered that has no cd. So someone log farming still has a significant advantage in finding that first motif. The cool down only matters if you are actually finding them to begin with.

Fleymark wrote: »

KitLightning wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Do you REALLY think a developer of ANY game would say "hmm let's make it so that if they logout 100 times a day, they get all the rare stuff super easy!"

Depends If a troll said it, it must be true

The community relations manager clearly stating that this is by design makes them a troll?

I'm pretty sure the people with green names here, particularly Jessica and Gina aren't trolls. This being their job and all. LOL

Fair enough. By the way, I have a fabulous chunk of ocean front property for sale in Kentucky. Super cheap too. Nice view.

Alphashado wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

KariTR wrote: »

I've read it. They are basically saying they screwed up the design (my take - because people were using it in a way that was not intended) which is why we have seen so many 'improvements' since April.

They've nerfed other things, too. Is that everyone else's fault, giving one segment of players who like one playstyle licence to tell another that likes a different playstyle how to play, or is it part of tuning the game?

Could be, but in light of the official post, I go with what they actually say rather than what my own personal tastes make me wish they said.

People are so entrenched in the belief that there is something wrong with this that even when shown an official post that settles the matter they still don't believe it. Denial is a powerful thing, apparently.

Pretty funny, really.

When they say farming isn't intended, I'll stop doing it. But until then they have said it is, so I will. I started doing it because they said it was part of the game design. LOL

If you want the drops maybe you should too.

The difference between "designed" and "intended" is pretty cut and dry here. "Working as intended" is a convienient phrase for your reasoning when in fact "working as designed" is what the devs say.

It is a very clear distinction unless you turn a blind eye. They are basically saying "We screwed up and failed to recognize the unforeseen side effect of the phasing system in regards to how it effects container drops. We cannot change this system therefore it would be impractical to consider it a violation or a banable offense. Logging to farm containers is an unforeseen consiquence of the way our system is designed".

Now of course they will never say that. But reasonable evaluation of their response makes it pretty clear. I challenge you to a supply a quote from a developer saying they intended us to log in and out in order to farm containers. You won't find it. The best you can provide is that the phasing and logging system is working "as designed".

So again, if you're going to do it then fine, but quit trying to use the same quote to convince yourself and others that they envisioned everyone logging out 50 times a day in order to easily find rare items. Just admit that you are taking advantage of the situation and move on.

I only hope they can find a true solution to the problem besides blanket nerfs though so that people playing the game as intended ( checking containers they come across in their travels) actually have a reasonable chance to find rare motifs.

The denial is strong with this one.

He's even inventing developer "intentions" that contradict what they've said, based on how they used one word other than "intended."

LOL. Just LOL.

Sorry but you are the one in denial. You keep insisting that the developers intended for you to log out 100 times a day in order to easy aquire rare items. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

The best you can do is supply a quote saying it isn't a banable offense because the system is working as it was designed. That is not even close to how you are twisting it. Again I challenge you to prove that anyone from zos intended us to circumvent the rare drops by logging out over and over. You can't do it.

The quote you keep plastering everywhere like some holy relic only says they screwed up and won't punish us for their mistake.

Do you REALLY think a developer of ANY game would say "hmm let's make it so that if they logout 100 times a day, they get all the rare stuff super easy!"

If you believe that, then YOU are the one in denial because it is OUTLANDISH to believe any developer would do that on purpose. I mean really. You are just making yourself sound silly.

Its not intended gameplay however it don't hurt anyone.
If they wanted to stop it its simple to make an limit on repeated log in like they have on deleting characters. Still it had to be pretty high like 10/ hour and should be soft caped so it take longer time each time

zaria wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

KariTR wrote: »

I've read it. They are basically saying they screwed up the design (my take - because people were using it in a way that was not intended) which is why we have seen so many 'improvements' since April.

They've nerfed other things, too. Is that everyone else's fault, giving one segment of players who like one playstyle licence to tell another that likes a different playstyle how to play, or is it part of tuning the game?

Could be, but in light of the official post, I go with what they actually say rather than what my own personal tastes make me wish they said.

People are so entrenched in the belief that there is something wrong with this that even when shown an official post that settles the matter they still don't believe it. Denial is a powerful thing, apparently.

Pretty funny, really.

When they say farming isn't intended, I'll stop doing it. But until then they have said it is, so I will. I started doing it because they said it was part of the game design. LOL

If you want the drops maybe you should too.

The difference between "designed" and "intended" is pretty cut and dry here. "Working as intended" is a convienient phrase for your reasoning when in fact "working as designed" is what the devs say.

It is a very clear distinction unless you turn a blind eye. They are basically saying "We screwed up and failed to recognize the unforeseen side effect of the phasing system in regards to how it effects container drops. We cannot change this system therefore it would be impractical to consider it a violation or a banable offense. Logging to farm containers is an unforeseen consiquence of the way our system is designed".

Now of course they will never say that. But reasonable evaluation of their response makes it pretty clear. I challenge you to a supply a quote from a developer saying they intended us to log in and out in order to farm containers. You won't find it. The best you can provide is that the phasing and logging system is working "as designed".

So again, if you're going to do it then fine, but quit trying to use the same quote to convince yourself and others that they envisioned everyone logging out 50 times a day in order to easily find rare items. Just admit that you are taking advantage of the situation and move on.

I only hope they can find a true solution to the problem besides blanket nerfs though so that people playing the game as intended ( checking containers they come across in their travels) actually have a reasonable chance to find rare motifs.

The denial is strong with this one.

He's even inventing developer "intentions" that contradict what they've said, based on how they used one word other than "intended."

LOL. Just LOL.

Sorry but you are the one in denial. You keep insisting that the developers intended for you to log out 100 times a day in order to easy aquire rare items. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

The best you can do is supply a quote saying it isn't a banable offense because the system is working as it was designed. That is not even close to how you are twisting it. Again I challenge you to prove that anyone from zos intended us to circumvent the rare drops by logging out over and over. You can't do it.

The quote you keep plastering everywhere like some holy relic only says they screwed up and won't punish us for their mistake.

Do you REALLY think a developer of ANY game would say "hmm let's make it so that if they logout 100 times a day, they get all the rare stuff super easy!"

If you believe that, then YOU are the one in denial because it is OUTLANDISH to believe any developer would do that on purpose. I mean really. You are just making yourself sound silly.

Its not intended gameplay however it don't hurt anyone.
If they wanted to stop it its simple to make an limit on repeated log in like they have on deleting characters. Still it had to be pretty high like 10/ hour and should be soft caped so it take longer time each time

I respectfully disagree that it doesn't hurt anyone. Those of us that would rather find motifs the old fashion way suffer nerfs set in place as a result of log farming. Main reason I won't do it is because it spams everyone on my friends list with log notifications. Plus it just feels wrong.

Makkir wrote: »

How is this any different than running an instanced dungeon over and over and over again to farm bosses for loot?
Oh right, it's not.

Sure it would be the same thing..... If you could instantly have access to a dead boss to loot every time you logged out.

The math wizard still here spouting rubbish about devs intent and relogging magically changing the odds. It's faster that is it I'm gonna explain it again but really simply. Let's say rolling a 6 on a dice is getting a purple item. Me and you both roll the odds are 1/6 if I roll again guess what still 1/6 now if you choose to only roll 100 dice and I do a thousand who is gonna have more 6's do you reckon?
Does that mean I've changed the odds no it does not. Now imagine if you are rolling 20 times in an hour and I'm rolling 100 but as soon as I get a 6 I have to stop as someone rubs the 6 off the dice for 3 hours..
Then there is the week long no dice for you ban. Literally the difference between ppl who relog and those who don't is that they're rolling the dice more frequently.
Now for it's breaking the economy argument I have seen bandied about with no explanation of how. It is not and the reason it is not is because it introduces no new gold into the economy all it does is move gold around. Which is the sign of a healthy game economy. Bringing in more rare items to the market also with the way supply and demand works lowers the cost of those items making them more obtainable for everyone.
So really those recipes and motifs you "got fairly with your hard earned gold were either bought from a farmer or at a lower price because of them'".
Whether I agree that you obtained them fairly when you have insinuated you farm dungeons and dolmens for gold is another thread but I will say that killing any mob over and over for gold is a lot more detrimental to the economy as it brings gold in and had to be countered with high repair costs etc.
Next you stating the devs intent when Jessica (the one who actually has that job) has already done it. The link has been posted read it absorb the information contained with in it. Then for the love of god stop saying you know what the devs intent is or that they were speaking in code when they said it was working as designed and not a bannable offence. That last part is key as it answers the op.
Now if you can stop QQing long enough to dry your eyes and log in you will probably have better luck finding motifs etc.