[removed]

Noctisse · August 2014

Makkir wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

why did you title this gold farming? That is not gold farming? Was it titled like that to evoke stronger emotions in people?

Sure it is. If the goal is to loot items to be converted to gold instead of being used by the player, then it's gold farming.

no it's not. Gold farming is a term used specifically for people farming gold to be sold by companies. It is a practice the wrecks game economies. You are using the term inappropriately, especially since the people involved aren't breaking any rules or being a detriment to the game.

No it absolutely is not. Gold farming is playing a game over X amount of time for the sole purpose of making gold.
I farm gold all the time, I don't sell it.

Hmm perhaps you should try though!
/zone: WTS 1 g! Price: 1 g & COD fee!

UrQuan · August 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I think the issue is not the farming but the logging in and logging out repeatedly in order to get rare drops.

If you are logging in and out every minute, or faster, then I could see them having an issue because this will hit their system harder and could potentially impact performance of the server as a whole.

There is already an army of hoarders logging in and out constantly as they switch between mule alts. Just logging in and out a few times per hour is not going to be noticed.

I suspect that this at least part of the reason for the 10 second logout waittime. If it gets really bad (i.e. Lots of people doing it all at once), I could see them increasing this time.

Actually, I suspect that the wait time has more to do with certain things being written to database tables. I say this because I've noticed that sometimes I don't get the 10 second logout wait time, so I'm thinking that maybe it checks to see if anything is waiting to be written to the tables, and if not it lets you log out right away. Just a guess though.

The 10 second wait time is to prevent intentionally logging out while you're in dangerous territory to avoid combat/danger. Those instances when you don't have a 10 second timer is because you're in a safe area inside a town/city. Pretty much every MMO uses this mechanic.

That makes sense, but that can't be the only reason for it. I say that because when I'm in town in a bank logging out sometimes I get the timer and sometimes I don't.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

UrQuan wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I think the issue is not the farming but the logging in and logging out repeatedly in order to get rare drops.

If you are logging in and out every minute, or faster, then I could see them having an issue because this will hit their system harder and could potentially impact performance of the server as a whole.

There is already an army of hoarders logging in and out constantly as they switch between mule alts. Just logging in and out a few times per hour is not going to be noticed.

I suspect that this at least part of the reason for the 10 second logout waittime. If it gets really bad (i.e. Lots of people doing it all at once), I could see them increasing this time.

Actually, I suspect that the wait time has more to do with certain things being written to database tables. I say this because I've noticed that sometimes I don't get the 10 second logout wait time, so I'm thinking that maybe it checks to see if anything is waiting to be written to the tables, and if not it lets you log out right away. Just a guess though.

The 10 second wait time is to prevent intentionally logging out while you're in dangerous territory to avoid combat/danger. Those instances when you don't have a 10 second timer is because you're in a safe area inside a town/city. Pretty much every MMO uses this mechanic.

That makes sense, but that can't be the only reason for it. I say that because when I'm in town in a bank logging out sometimes I get the timer and sometimes I don't.

it IS probably the only reason. In fact, the 10 second timer is really very low considering most games do a 30 second timer afaik.

Some towns, however, have phases where there are enemies, and they will often still have the 10 second timer even outside that phase.

Super_Sonico · August 2014

Fleymark wrote: »

Exactly. I don't know what it is about this game that attracts so many people who think that anything that doesn't fit their own personal playstyle is an exploit.

Ya know, overall I think ESO has the worst community of gamers in any MMO I've ever seen, and I've been playing MMOs since the late 90s. Quite depressing really.

Fleymark · August 2014

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Not to be difficult here...but can someone explain the grand purpose behind having absurd amounts of gold past a certain point, unless it's to benefit their guild or offset the war?

Seems to me it's as much work to do this, to get the gold, to buy other stuff, to not have to do the work to find the other stuff??

Aside from the two possibilities above or the bragging rights of being an ESO bazillionaire, what does a cool million get you that 100k doesn't?

(Having enough) Gold is not an issue for me. I fail to see what having 10 times that amount does for anyone.

And for those arguing the finer points of exploit/non-exploit, it may not be bannable, but pretty sure this was not the dev's intent. Doesn't need to be carved in stone to figure that one out, or the argument wouldn't even be taking place.

Saying that because the system currently allows you to do it makes it 'ok' is uses the same logic as 'It's not wrong unless you get caught.' C'mon.

It's why the ToS tell you to report anything you 'think' might be one.

Kudos to the characters with character.

--Bank space, which is at a premium in this game because of the ridiculous inventory system. To fully max bank space at 240 they say it will cost in the ballpark of 800k. I don't know, personally mine is at 160 now and the next upgrade is priced at 50k.

--Horses. The good ones fully trained can give you the fastest run speed in the game, the highest character inventory slots in the game, or you can buy both, just can't use them at the same time. But you can have them at the same time. 42k for a horse plus, what, 13k ish to feed it? 110k for both good horses on onetoon. You get 8 slots so...

--Respecs. They dropped the price, but they still add up fast if you do them.

--Improvement mats. If you don't craft and even if you are the picture of frugality, you are eventually going to want a crafted templated set of gear or two. The purple and yellow improvement mats add up fast and you are either going to have to buy them or pay the crafter to buy them. Either way it's expensive.

--The unknown. This game, in the big picture, is brand new. We don't know what gold sinks future patches or even expansions will bring. Housing will be in the game eventually. That always costs money. They could add new mounts. More slots. Etc. You never know but it costs nothing to be prepared by docking cash away for a rainy day and is smart gameplay to do so. In real life too, actually.

As for the rest of your post, I direct you to my other post. No, in fact, farming isn't an exploit and is, in fact, entirely legitimate gameplay. Hence, your sanctimonious assertion about "character" is ridiculous. You have no moral superiority over choosing to play the game your way than anyone else does. The debate only "takes place" as you say because this game is infested with a brand of player that thinks it's their prerogative to tell others how they should play.

Farming has existed in pretty much every MMO and it exists here. If you don't like it, don't do it. But stop giving those who do a hard time, please. Some people might just want to amass fortunes in gold just because they want to see if they can. Just like money in the real world. And you know what? It's entirely legitimate. Might not be your cup of tea but are you expected to play or live by everyone else's preferences? It's ridiculous.

I don't know what it is about this game that it simultaneously has such a distinct lack of required player interaction and economy, yet attracts a hoarde of players who not only think it is their business how others play, but that if it doesn't align with their own personal tastes other players are morally wrong.

Mind boggling, really.

DenverRalphy · August 2014

UrQuan wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I think the issue is not the farming but the logging in and logging out repeatedly in order to get rare drops.

If you are logging in and out every minute, or faster, then I could see them having an issue because this will hit their system harder and could potentially impact performance of the server as a whole.

There is already an army of hoarders logging in and out constantly as they switch between mule alts. Just logging in and out a few times per hour is not going to be noticed.

I suspect that this at least part of the reason for the 10 second logout waittime. If it gets really bad (i.e. Lots of people doing it all at once), I could see them increasing this time.

Actually, I suspect that the wait time has more to do with certain things being written to database tables. I say this because I've noticed that sometimes I don't get the 10 second logout wait time, so I'm thinking that maybe it checks to see if anything is waiting to be written to the tables, and if not it lets you log out right away. Just a guess though.

The 10 second wait time is to prevent intentionally logging out while you're in dangerous territory to avoid combat/danger. Those instances when you don't have a 10 second timer is because you're in a safe area inside a town/city. Pretty much every MMO uses this mechanic.

That makes sense, but that can't be the only reason for it. I say that because when I'm in town in a bank logging out sometimes I get the timer and sometimes I don't.

Some towns are not entirely safe. Especially those where the bank etc.. Isn't available until after you complete the quest line to "liberate" the town. Sure you're in a safe phase of the city/town, but the game may still interpret it as an unsafe area. And then there are some towns where the occasional monster still has a chance to spawn when somebody else triggers a quest objective.

UrQuan · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I think the issue is not the farming but the logging in and logging out repeatedly in order to get rare drops.

If you are logging in and out every minute, or faster, then I could see them having an issue because this will hit their system harder and could potentially impact performance of the server as a whole.

There is already an army of hoarders logging in and out constantly as they switch between mule alts. Just logging in and out a few times per hour is not going to be noticed.

I suspect that this at least part of the reason for the 10 second logout waittime. If it gets really bad (i.e. Lots of people doing it all at once), I could see them increasing this time.

Actually, I suspect that the wait time has more to do with certain things being written to database tables. I say this because I've noticed that sometimes I don't get the 10 second logout wait time, so I'm thinking that maybe it checks to see if anything is waiting to be written to the tables, and if not it lets you log out right away. Just a guess though.

The 10 second wait time is to prevent intentionally logging out while you're in dangerous territory to avoid combat/danger. Those instances when you don't have a 10 second timer is because you're in a safe area inside a town/city. Pretty much every MMO uses this mechanic.

That makes sense, but that can't be the only reason for it. I say that because when I'm in town in a bank logging out sometimes I get the timer and sometimes I don't.

it IS probably the only reason. In fact, the 10 second timer is really very low considering most games do a 30 second timer afaik.

Some towns, however, have phases where there are enemies, and they will often still have the 10 second timer even outside that phase.

That wouldn't explain why, in the exact same place, in a town where I've completed the only quest that spawns enemies (and where I'm thus in a phase where there are never any enemies in town) sometimes I get the timer and sometimes I don't.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

UrQuan wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I think the issue is not the farming but the logging in and logging out repeatedly in order to get rare drops.

If you are logging in and out every minute, or faster, then I could see them having an issue because this will hit their system harder and could potentially impact performance of the server as a whole.

There is already an army of hoarders logging in and out constantly as they switch between mule alts. Just logging in and out a few times per hour is not going to be noticed.

I suspect that this at least part of the reason for the 10 second logout waittime. If it gets really bad (i.e. Lots of people doing it all at once), I could see them increasing this time.

Actually, I suspect that the wait time has more to do with certain things being written to database tables. I say this because I've noticed that sometimes I don't get the 10 second logout wait time, so I'm thinking that maybe it checks to see if anything is waiting to be written to the tables, and if not it lets you log out right away. Just a guess though.

The 10 second wait time is to prevent intentionally logging out while you're in dangerous territory to avoid combat/danger. Those instances when you don't have a 10 second timer is because you're in a safe area inside a town/city. Pretty much every MMO uses this mechanic.

That makes sense, but that can't be the only reason for it. I say that because when I'm in town in a bank logging out sometimes I get the timer and sometimes I don't.

it IS probably the only reason. In fact, the 10 second timer is really very low considering most games do a 30 second timer afaik.

Some towns, however, have phases where there are enemies, and they will often still have the 10 second timer even outside that phase.

That wouldn't explain why, in the exact same place, in a town where I've completed the only quest that spawns enemies (and where I'm thus in a phase where there are never any enemies in town) sometimes I get the timer and sometimes I don't.

I don't know, having the timer or not having it is always consistent for me.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Super_Sonico wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Exactly. I don't know what it is about this game that attracts so many people who think that anything that doesn't fit their own personal playstyle is an exploit.

Ya know, overall I think ESO has the worst community of gamers in any MMO I've ever seen, and I've been playing MMOs since the late 90s. Quite depressing really.

what other mmos have you played and how recently? The ESO community is pretty good imo. Maybe early on in the late 90s early 2000s you could get better but not at any time even near the current time.

Karnus · August 2014

Fleymark · August 2014

Vahrokh wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

and is an exploit.

Except it's been going on since release and ZOS have clearly said it's NOT an exploit and it's not a 'bannable' offense, so you're totally wrong.

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

It's not an exploit or cheating if no bug is explored or no rule is broken. It has been repeated over and over, officially, that it is entirely legitimate gameplay. Get over it.

Your exchange with a CSR is meaningless. Most CSRs in most games are clueless and are glorified telephone operators reading out of a manual. They likely were telling you what you wanted to hear just to get you out of their hair. CARs don't make policy. The devs do. And the community relations people speak for them. Again, since you seem to be challenged with this..

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This is not something we consider an exploit or bannable offense. Though it's working as designed, we do intend to make some improvements to the current design.

From this thread in April:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/87214/need-confirmation-is-motif-farming-a-bannable-offense/p2

I realize being WRONG is a tough pill to swallow sometimes but you really should accept that FACT and get over it.

And I will continue to farm with my game time, thank you, safe in the knowledge that I'm playing the game entirely as intended.

Fleymark · August 2014

kitsinni wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

and is an exploit.

Except it's been going on since release and ZOS have clearly said it's NOT an exploit and it's not a 'bannable' offense, so you're totally wrong.

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

This is ESO in a nutshell. Even with a link to a ZOS employee stating specifically that this exact thing is not an exploit there is someone calling it "exploiting" and "cheaters".

I have never seen any other game where people throw the word exploit out so much. You can barely find a post with ten replies without exploit and entitled in it.

This EXACTLY.

andre.roques.3b14_ESO · August 2014

Fleymark wrote: »

And I will continue to farm with my game time, thank you, safe in the knowledge that I'm playing the game entirely as intended.

How dare you play the way you want!

DenverRalphy · August 2014

UrQuan wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I think the issue is not the farming but the logging in and logging out repeatedly in order to get rare drops.

If you are logging in and out every minute, or faster, then I could see them having an issue because this will hit their system harder and could potentially impact performance of the server as a whole.

There is already an army of hoarders logging in and out constantly as they switch between mule alts. Just logging in and out a few times per hour is not going to be noticed.

I suspect that this at least part of the reason for the 10 second logout waittime. If it gets really bad (i.e. Lots of people doing it all at once), I could see them increasing this time.

Actually, I suspect that the wait time has more to do with certain things being written to database tables. I say this because I've noticed that sometimes I don't get the 10 second logout wait time, so I'm thinking that maybe it checks to see if anything is waiting to be written to the tables, and if not it lets you log out right away. Just a guess though.

The 10 second wait time is to prevent intentionally logging out while you're in dangerous territory to avoid combat/danger. Those instances when you don't have a 10 second timer is because you're in a safe area inside a town/city. Pretty much every MMO uses this mechanic.

That makes sense, but that can't be the only reason for it. I say that because when I'm in town in a bank logging out sometimes I get the timer and sometimes I don't.

it IS probably the only reason. In fact, the 10 second timer is really very low considering most games do a 30 second timer afaik.

Some towns, however, have phases where there are enemies, and they will often still have the 10 second timer even outside that phase.

That wouldn't explain why, in the exact same place, in a town where I've completed the only quest that spawns enemies (and where I'm thus in a phase where there are never any enemies in town) sometimes I get the timer and sometimes I don't.

That's just a matter of phasing. Granted your phase is no longer dangerous. But the logout mechanism does not discriminate between phases.

Fleymark · August 2014

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Ok, so I guess the game was designed with the intent that we sign in and out multiple times to get rare things. Hard to believe a forums moderator signed off on this, but whatever. Probably the one time exploiters got the green light to abuse faulty game mechanics, but if you have the time then whatever floats your boat.

An exploit is the abuse of a BUG and is cheating.

Abuse of something you personally don't like is not. There's a difference. I would argue that it's not even "abuse" because that carries a negative connotation. You may not like it but this is simply using the game mechanics as they have been presented.

This being a "faulty game mechanic" is purely your opinion, nothing more. I think it works great. So do others. So, apparently, do the developers of the game.

UrQuan · August 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I think the issue is not the farming but the logging in and logging out repeatedly in order to get rare drops.

If you are logging in and out every minute, or faster, then I could see them having an issue because this will hit their system harder and could potentially impact performance of the server as a whole.

There is already an army of hoarders logging in and out constantly as they switch between mule alts. Just logging in and out a few times per hour is not going to be noticed.

I suspect that this at least part of the reason for the 10 second logout waittime. If it gets really bad (i.e. Lots of people doing it all at once), I could see them increasing this time.

Actually, I suspect that the wait time has more to do with certain things being written to database tables. I say this because I've noticed that sometimes I don't get the 10 second logout wait time, so I'm thinking that maybe it checks to see if anything is waiting to be written to the tables, and if not it lets you log out right away. Just a guess though.

The 10 second wait time is to prevent intentionally logging out while you're in dangerous territory to avoid combat/danger. Those instances when you don't have a 10 second timer is because you're in a safe area inside a town/city. Pretty much every MMO uses this mechanic.

That makes sense, but that can't be the only reason for it. I say that because when I'm in town in a bank logging out sometimes I get the timer and sometimes I don't.

it IS probably the only reason. In fact, the 10 second timer is really very low considering most games do a 30 second timer afaik.

Some towns, however, have phases where there are enemies, and they will often still have the 10 second timer even outside that phase.

That wouldn't explain why, in the exact same place, in a town where I've completed the only quest that spawns enemies (and where I'm thus in a phase where there are never any enemies in town) sometimes I get the timer and sometimes I don't.

That's just a matter of phasing. Granted your phase is no longer dangerous. But the logout mechanism does not discriminate between phases.

But if it doesn't discriminate between phases (frankly, it makes sense to me that it doesn't discriminate between phases), and if there's no reason for the timer aside from preventing logging out to avoid combat then it should be consistent. It's not - sometimes I get the timer and sometimes I don't, even when I'm in the exact same place. $:\$

TheSojourner · August 2014

Fleymark wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

and is an exploit.

Except it's been going on since release and ZOS have clearly said it's NOT an exploit and it's not a 'bannable' offense, so you're totally wrong.

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

It's not an exploit or cheating if no bug is explored or no rule is broken. It has been repeated over and over, officially, that it is entirely legitimate gameplay. Get over it.

Your exchange with a CSR is meaningless. Most CSRs in most games are clueless and are glorified telephone operators reading out of a manual. They likely were telling you what you wanted to hear just to get you out of their hair. CARs don't make policy. The devs do. And the community relations people speak for them. Again, since you seem to be challenged with this..

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This is not something we consider an exploit or bannable offense. Though it's working as designed, we do intend to make some improvements to the current design.

From this thread in April:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/87214/need-confirmation-is-motif-farming-a-bannable-offense/p2

I realize being WRONG is a tough pill to swallow sometimes but you really should accept that FACT and get over it.

And I will continue to farm with my game time, thank you, safe in the knowledge that I'm playing the game entirely as intended.

I can tell you're very happy with yourself but a dev saying it's working as designed (containers resetting on logout) does not mean they intended you to log out and back in over and over again.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

TheSojourner wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

and is an exploit.

Except it's been going on since release and ZOS have clearly said it's NOT an exploit and it's not a 'bannable' offense, so you're totally wrong.

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

It's not an exploit or cheating if no bug is explored or no rule is broken. It has been repeated over and over, officially, that it is entirely legitimate gameplay. Get over it.

Your exchange with a CSR is meaningless. Most CSRs in most games are clueless and are glorified telephone operators reading out of a manual. They likely were telling you what you wanted to hear just to get you out of their hair. CARs don't make policy. The devs do. And the community relations people speak for them. Again, since you seem to be challenged with this..

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This is not something we consider an exploit or bannable offense. Though it's working as designed, we do intend to make some improvements to the current design.

From this thread in April:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/87214/need-confirmation-is-motif-farming-a-bannable-offense/p2

I realize being WRONG is a tough pill to swallow sometimes but you really should accept that FACT and get over it.

And I will continue to farm with my game time, thank you, safe in the knowledge that I'm playing the game entirely as intended.

I can tell you're very happy with yourself but a dev saying it's working as designed (containers resetting on logout) does not mean they intended you to log out and back in over and over again.

really? The quote saying it is intended has been posted twice now. Are you just trolling?

TheSojourner · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

TheSojourner wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

and is an exploit.

Except it's been going on since release and ZOS have clearly said it's NOT an exploit and it's not a 'bannable' offense, so you're totally wrong.

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

It's not an exploit or cheating if no bug is explored or no rule is broken. It has been repeated over and over, officially, that it is entirely legitimate gameplay. Get over it.

Your exchange with a CSR is meaningless. Most CSRs in most games are clueless and are glorified telephone operators reading out of a manual. They likely were telling you what you wanted to hear just to get you out of their hair. CARs don't make policy. The devs do. And the community relations people speak for them. Again, since you seem to be challenged with this..

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This is not something we consider an exploit or bannable offense. Though it's working as designed, we do intend to make some improvements to the current design.

From this thread in April:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/87214/need-confirmation-is-motif-farming-a-bannable-offense/p2

I realize being WRONG is a tough pill to swallow sometimes but you really should accept that FACT and get over it.

And I will continue to farm with my game time, thank you, safe in the knowledge that I'm playing the game entirely as intended.

I can tell you're very happy with yourself but a dev saying it's working as designed (containers resetting on logout) does not mean they intended you to log out and back in over and over again.

really? The quote saying it is intended has been posted twice now. Are you just trolling?

No, you should reread the quote. They intend to improve on the current design. That's the only time she used the word intend.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

TheSojourner wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

TheSojourner wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

and is an exploit.

Except it's been going on since release and ZOS have clearly said it's NOT an exploit and it's not a 'bannable' offense, so you're totally wrong.

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

It's not an exploit or cheating if no bug is explored or no rule is broken. It has been repeated over and over, officially, that it is entirely legitimate gameplay. Get over it.

Your exchange with a CSR is meaningless. Most CSRs in most games are clueless and are glorified telephone operators reading out of a manual. They likely were telling you what you wanted to hear just to get you out of their hair. CARs don't make policy. The devs do. And the community relations people speak for them. Again, since you seem to be challenged with this..

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This is not something we consider an exploit or bannable offense. Though it's working as designed, we do intend to make some improvements to the current design.

From this thread in April:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/87214/need-confirmation-is-motif-farming-a-bannable-offense/p2

I realize being WRONG is a tough pill to swallow sometimes but you really should accept that FACT and get over it.

And I will continue to farm with my game time, thank you, safe in the knowledge that I'm playing the game entirely as intended.

I can tell you're very happy with yourself but a dev saying it's working as designed (containers resetting on logout) does not mean they intended you to log out and back in over and over again.

really? The quote saying it is intended has been posted twice now. Are you just trolling?

No, you should reread the quote. They intend to improve on the current design. That's the only time she used the word intend.

she specifically says it's working AS DESIGNED. You are playing semantics to try and make yourself feel better but you are wrong. Everyone else here knows you're wrong, you only hurt yourself by trying to convince people otherwise.

UrQuan · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

TheSojourner wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

TheSojourner wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

and is an exploit.

Except it's been going on since release and ZOS have clearly said it's NOT an exploit and it's not a 'bannable' offense, so you're totally wrong.

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

It's not an exploit or cheating if no bug is explored or no rule is broken. It has been repeated over and over, officially, that it is entirely legitimate gameplay. Get over it.

Your exchange with a CSR is meaningless. Most CSRs in most games are clueless and are glorified telephone operators reading out of a manual. They likely were telling you what you wanted to hear just to get you out of their hair. CARs don't make policy. The devs do. And the community relations people speak for them. Again, since you seem to be challenged with this..

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This is not something we consider an exploit or bannable offense. Though it's working as designed, we do intend to make some improvements to the current design.

From this thread in April:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/87214/need-confirmation-is-motif-farming-a-bannable-offense/p2

I realize being WRONG is a tough pill to swallow sometimes but you really should accept that FACT and get over it.

And I will continue to farm with my game time, thank you, safe in the knowledge that I'm playing the game entirely as intended.

I can tell you're very happy with yourself but a dev saying it's working as designed (containers resetting on logout) does not mean they intended you to log out and back in over and over again.

really? The quote saying it is intended has been posted twice now. Are you just trolling?

No, you should reread the quote. They intend to improve on the current design. That's the only time she used the word intend.

she specifically says it's working AS DESIGNED. You are playing semantics to try and make yourself feel better but you are wrong. Everyone else here knows you're wrong, you only hurt yourself by trying to convince people otherwise.

This might be the first time I find myself entirely agreeing with you

DenverRalphy · August 2014

UrQuan wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I think the issue is not the farming but the logging in and logging out repeatedly in order to get rare drops.

If you are logging in and out every minute, or faster, then I could see them having an issue because this will hit their system harder and could potentially impact performance of the server as a whole.

There is already an army of hoarders logging in and out constantly as they switch between mule alts. Just logging in and out a few times per hour is not going to be noticed.

I suspect that this at least part of the reason for the 10 second logout waittime. If it gets really bad (i.e. Lots of people doing it all at once), I could see them increasing this time.

Actually, I suspect that the wait time has more to do with certain things being written to database tables. I say this because I've noticed that sometimes I don't get the 10 second logout wait time, so I'm thinking that maybe it checks to see if anything is waiting to be written to the tables, and if not it lets you log out right away. Just a guess though.

The 10 second wait time is to prevent intentionally logging out while you're in dangerous territory to avoid combat/danger. Those instances when you don't have a 10 second timer is because you're in a safe area inside a town/city. Pretty much every MMO uses this mechanic.

That makes sense, but that can't be the only reason for it. I say that because when I'm in town in a bank logging out sometimes I get the timer and sometimes I don't.

it IS probably the only reason. In fact, the 10 second timer is really very low considering most games do a 30 second timer afaik.

Some towns, however, have phases where there are enemies, and they will often still have the 10 second timer even outside that phase.

That wouldn't explain why, in the exact same place, in a town where I've completed the only quest that spawns enemies (and where I'm thus in a phase where there are never any enemies in town) sometimes I get the timer and sometimes I don't.

That's just a matter of phasing. Granted your phase is no longer dangerous. But the logout mechanism does not discriminate between phases.

But if it doesn't discriminate between phases (frankly, it makes sense to me that it doesn't discriminate between phases), and if there's no reason for the timer aside from preventing logging out to avoid combat then it should be consistent. It's not - sometimes I get the timer and sometimes I don't, even when I'm in the exact same place. $:\$

I understand where you're coming from. I really do. There have been times that I've had a countdown timer when I didn't expect it. But one thing I can guarantee... You'll never see an automatic logout without a timer outside of a city or town. However many times you may just happen to have a PC or Client Crash, your character data remains intact. The game doesn't save your state at logout. Everything you do is saved as you do it. There's no logout syncing. To design the game otherwise would be too prone to hacking if character data was manipulated client side.

But I digress. This is a subject for a different thread. We've gone WAY off topic.

Fleymark · August 2014

TheSojourner wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

and is an exploit.

Except it's been going on since release and ZOS have clearly said it's NOT an exploit and it's not a 'bannable' offense, so you're totally wrong.

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

It's not an exploit or cheating if no bug is explored or no rule is broken. It has been repeated over and over, officially, that it is entirely legitimate gameplay. Get over it.

Your exchange with a CSR is meaningless. Most CSRs in most games are clueless and are glorified telephone operators reading out of a manual. They likely were telling you what you wanted to hear just to get you out of their hair. CARs don't make policy. The devs do. And the community relations people speak for them. Again, since you seem to be challenged with this..

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This is not something we consider an exploit or bannable offense. Though it's working as designed, we do intend to make some improvements to the current design.

From this thread in April:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/87214/need-confirmation-is-motif-farming-a-bannable-offense/p2

I realize being WRONG is a tough pill to swallow sometimes but you really should accept that FACT and get over it.

And I will continue to farm with my game time, thank you, safe in the knowledge that I'm playing the game entirely as intended.

I can tell you're very happy with yourself but a dev saying it's working as designed (containers resetting on logout) does not mean they intended you to log out and back in over and over again.

READ the quote, ffs. It SAYS it's working as DESIGNED.

It's really hard having a discussion with people in complete and utter denial.

Farming has existed in every MMO. It exists in this one. Accept that FACT. And you should be thankful it happens in ways that don't effect you. While they allowthis they've also taken steps to make it less fruitful to farm public dungeon bbosses because that impacts the flow of the game for many players.

How people can't see this system as a win win for everybody is beyond me. In a lot of games farming consists of high levels sitting on low and mid level spawns that drop good loot that they can sell and people actually at the level of that content don't even get a chance to try.

A lot of you people might consider that you are worrying too much about what others do or are complaining just to complain. Or both.

UrQuan · August 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I understand where you're coming from. I really do. There have been times that I've had a countdown timer when I didn't expect it. But one thing I can guarantee... You'll never see an automatic logout without a timer outside of a city or town.

And that makes total sense to me. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is why I sometimes don't get the timer when I'm in town, while other times in the same spot in town I do.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

However many times you may just happen to have a PC or Client Crash, your character data remains intact. The game doesn't save your state at logout. Everything you do is saved as you do it. There's no logout syncing. To design the game otherwise would be too prone to hacking if character data was manipulated client side.

But I digress. This is a subject for a different thread. We've gone WAY off topic.

Actually, a couple of times I've seen crashes with rollbacks, but those have been extremely rare. And yeah, you're right, this is WAY off topic for this thread so I'll stop discussing it now

Fleymark · August 2014

Actually, what I find really funny about this thread is it took several of us zero time to whip out that Jessica quote. LOL

When I decided to redo provisioning on an alt, I decided that I was going to try to get every green and blue recipe at least and I knew it was going to require farming. I did not realize how much lol...5 weeks to get everything up to 25 and that's with help from a guy I made friends with who is doing the same...We kick our extras to the other.

Anyway, so before I embarked on this project I researched the rules because there are so many people calling it an exploit and found that quote. Bookmarked it just for this purpose. I gather I'm not alone. LOL

dharbert · August 2014

Due to the way the loot tables and drop rates are set up, re-logging (farming) is a necessary (although unanticipated) method of obtaining items that would otherwise take weeks or months to find.

Zenimax knows about this and does not consider it to be an exploit. If they did, players would be getting banned left and right, and they would put a stop to it. They haven't done either of those things, hence, no exploit.

Vahrokh · August 2014

kitsinni wrote: »

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

This is ESO in a nutshell. Even with a link to a ZOS employee stating specifically that this exact thing is not an exploit there is someone calling it "exploiting" and "cheaters".

I have never seen any other game where people throw the word exploit out so much. You can barely find a post with ten replies without exploit and entitled in it. [/quote]

Abusing of game mechanics IS the definition of an exploit. The ZoS CRS agreed with me, they just didn't fix it (yet).

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Vahrokh wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

This is ESO in a nutshell. Even with a link to a ZOS employee stating specifically that this exact thing is not an exploit there is someone calling it "exploiting" and "cheaters".

I have never seen any other game where people throw the word exploit out so much. You can barely find a post with ten replies without exploit and entitled in it.

Abusing of game mechanics IS the definition of an exploit. The ZoS CRS agreed with me, they just didn't fix it (yet).[/quote]

/sigh. The quote referenced is from way above some random CS operator. You are wrong.

TheSojourner · August 2014

Fleymark wrote: »

TheSojourner wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

and is an exploit.

Except it's been going on since release and ZOS have clearly said it's NOT an exploit and it's not a 'bannable' offense, so you're totally wrong.

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

It's not an exploit or cheating if no bug is explored or no rule is broken. It has been repeated over and over, officially, that it is entirely legitimate gameplay. Get over it.

Your exchange with a CSR is meaningless. Most CSRs in most games are clueless and are glorified telephone operators reading out of a manual. They likely were telling you what you wanted to hear just to get you out of their hair. CARs don't make policy. The devs do. And the community relations people speak for them. Again, since you seem to be challenged with this..

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This is not something we consider an exploit or bannable offense. Though it's working as designed, we do intend to make some improvements to the current design.

From this thread in April:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/87214/need-confirmation-is-motif-farming-a-bannable-offense/p2

I realize being WRONG is a tough pill to swallow sometimes but you really should accept that FACT and get over it.

And I will continue to farm with my game time, thank you, safe in the knowledge that I'm playing the game entirely as intended.

I can tell you're very happy with yourself but a dev saying it's working as designed (containers resetting on logout) does not mean they intended you to log out and back in over and over again.

READ the quote, ffs. It SAYS it's working as DESIGNED.

It's really hard having a discussion with people in complete and utter denial.

Farming has existed in every MMO. It exists in this one. Accept that FACT. And you should be thankful it happens in ways that don't effect you. While they allowthis they've also taken steps to make it less fruitful to farm public dungeon bbosses because that impacts the flow of the game for many players.

How people can't see this system as a win win for everybody is beyond me. In a lot of games farming consists of high levels sitting on low and mid level spawns that drop good loot that they can sell and people actually at the level of that content don't even get a chance to try.

A lot of you people might consider that you are worrying too much about what others do or are complaining just to complain. Or both.

You're kinda missing the point. Let me be clear. I'm not against this method of "farming". Sure, I find it weird that someone would spend their finite time, by doing something as repetative and uninteresting as bypassing playing the game, just to get certain items to play the game, but I'm ok with it. Stop trying to assume and label me.

My point is, the people (you) that absolutely love and revel in doing this, seem to take that quote completely out of context. The design (containers resetting on logout) is working correctly. Before you go on, stop and re-read that. It's very important. Nothing about farming or repeated log outs is meantioned as the design. I agree, the farming method is NOT an exploit, but it is FAR from the intention of the developers. You have to realize this. If you honestly think the developers intentionally designed it that way so players could log out and in repeatedly, you're being intellecutally dishonest.

UrQuan · August 2014

Vahrokh wrote: »

Abusing of game mechanics IS the definition of an exploit. The ZoS CRS agreed with me, they just didn't fix it (yet).

The ZOS CS rep is very very low on the totem pole. The official post by ZOS Community Manager Jessica Folsom where she explicitly says that this is not an exploit trumps it. Sorry that you refuse to accept reality, but there it is. You got some random person to agree with you. That doesn't make you right.