MADshadowman wrote: »

Actually, the fact that he was able to evade troll 6 or 7 of you for 15 mins makes him a good player. You guys being unable to figure out a way to catch him doesn't make BE a broken mechanic.

The only way I see that group taking him down is with a sorc, which they didn't have. So that's balanced to you then? The fact that you MUST have a sorc to catch/defeat another sorc? LOL

The point is .... ANY SORC can kite a group that size that doesn't have a sorc with them for 15 minutes if they build for it properly. That's part of the reason they changed the ability last time. It doesn't take much if any skill to kite like this the way the ability currently works.

MADshadowman wrote: »

Sheaden wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Seriously dude, the caps got raised for everyone not just for this guy. You too can use this to get more stam to block more damage, or to sneak and run longer. Or get more health or magicka or whatever you like to get a better build.

Next time you're with 6 or 7 other people, make sure you choose some that can ride a horse, use bolt escape, effectively stun or chain pull people. Yes, this is actually a thing, you can chain pull a streaking sorc. and if the sorc is able to escape 7 angry people, then he is obviously a good sorc. i'm sure you'll find other enemies out there that are willing to die.

Seriously dude, chain doesn't work but about half the time and costs more than bolt escape.

Any sorc can build for this and do the exact same thing this sorc did to that group in the games current state. That hardly qualifies this individual being an amazing player. Like a true defender of broken easily exploitable mechanics... you don't offer up any potential tweaks or changes... you just jealously defend your broken mechanics till the bitter end.

I don't defend anything. And MY broken mechanics? Who said i'm a sorc? i get streaked by sorcs all the time and it's their freaking right to do so!

Streak also doesn't always work. Streak has a bug where it wont teleport you anymore until you relog. So don't act as if this skill was bug free.

I always laugh when people whine about me streaking their zergball into oblivion, when all they needed to do was block.

Azraeel wrote: »

I don't understand why people can't figure out that each class got their own special taste. That's like putting a cooldown on Templar heals because they are too good, or cooldown on DK defenses because they are too good, or NB siphoning abilities because they are too good... Just give it up already. This skill won't break the game, it isn't like the person is soloing 10 people while using bolt!? Sorc got an escape ability, good for them. Doesn't bother me really.

Please don't bring us nightblades into this. Haven't we suffered enough?

Vizier wrote: »

NorthernFury wrote: »

Sheaden wrote: »

NorthernFury wrote: »

Effective use of a class specific skill does not mean class needs a nerf.

It was nerfed because it was too effective before. It's still too effective when an entire group can not chase down and kill the guy because by the time the fastest pursuer gets to the sorc with some form of CC .. the sorc gets his immunity up and is out of the CC by the time the rest of party shows up to try to burn him and he's off to the races once again.

Considering stealthed players with certain setups can keep up with horses now, this really doesn't hold any water. He was built to evade the people that he was evading, and they weren't built to catch him. It could have been done, and doesn't justify breaking a class-defining skill because some people didn't like it being used effectively.

@ Sheaden - Agreed. It was nerfed for a reason. IMO it shouldn't be spammable without prodigious use of Magicka pots and the right gear for magicka regen. The ability to BE while CC'd needs to be removed. Sorc should have to break CC before they can BE. The stun on BE needs to be reworked too , such that it doesn't stun when used within 4 seconds of previous BE. This would cut back it's use as an offensive ability but not totally.

I don't believe the sorcs need to be as decked out in gear as some are suggesting to spam BE, but I could be wrong.

To be fair to @NorthernFury if a Sorc is running / BE and in trouble a NB can keep the pressure on with Path of Darkness and use of Magicka / Stamina pots. Path of Darkness provides a 50% movement increase and is spammable. Additionally if someone uses rapid maneuvers and some of the new set gear, that mage will be hard pressed to get away. Chances are at that point though the Sorc turns and nails the squishy NB and few not especially equipped and adept will be able to endanger a BEing sorc...IMO.

I don't think that 50% increase is as fast as it sounds on paper. Also the range isn't that great on it and you would really have to spam it a lot to try to keep up with a sorcerer. I seriously wouldn't consider that a viable tactic.

while i agree it is very annoying especially when used to bolt into corwd to spam pb-aoe. but in terms of chasing i have faster speed than a bolting sorc using vamp and nights silence sets. i can catch anything if i can stealth.

i dont need to use my horse to get to a fight so i never get ganked off it anymore.

yes it means i cant run around in seducer and warlock like all the fotm guys , but i'm ok with that. once you experience moving around in stealth at that speed . its so much fun you wont care your not wearing the power set-up.

plus i dont have to be a carbon copy wearing a dress, i can make my own armour with nights silence and look the way i want.
but some folk would happily wear a clown suit if it gave them 2% more power than the next guy.

MADshadowman wrote: »

@Sheaden‌ don't you get it? it's not his fault that everyone laughs at you now. it's your fault because you chose to run after ONE guy for 15 minutes! Just let him escape if you can't get him after 20 seconds and look for some other people. You're just stubborn and now you're frustrated because you couldn't let go.

7 or 8 people and no one can manage to pop rapid maneuver, mount a horse or just turn around and get back to real business.

stop right here pal, before it gets even more ridiculous.

I didn't choose to chase after him for 15 minutes. I followed a group that chose to do so as it was right before the server came down. I'm merely making an objective observation that it's a bit ridiculous that one class has the ability to even do this.
You're the one getting all defensive about the idea that this MAY be imbalanced.

Not easy to mount and purse given the state of how badly people get stuck in combat. I realize that people getting stuck in combat isn't grounds to nerf a class ability this is simply to refute your argument that catching a sorc is as simple as mounting a horse.

I love your logic though that ... "well the sorc put bolt escape on their bar... don't even try, just find something better to do" that's laughable and clearly shows you have no concern for the long-term balance of the game.

I did see people using rapid maneuver however the sorc was still able to effectively kite away from them since the group never had him cc'd long enough to get a good group dps burst into him. This is often the case since the moment you CC the sorc they can bust out of it and then gain a lengthy immunity providing them a window to get away ...roots also don't work as they just take the root with them to the new teleport location.

Those that build specifically for this playstyle which isn't difficult to do can now achieve very near the same level of relative freedom in pvp that caused the ability to get nerfed in the first place.

You people defending bolt escape are delusional. Instant get away with basically no effort.

I'm In the process of lvling a Sorc because it's op. add into it the permenant incapacitate *** and it's the most op skill in the game.

ZoS and you people are blind.

Sheaden wrote: »

NorthernFury wrote: »

Effective use of a class specific skill does not mean class needs a nerf.

It was nerfed because it was too effective before. It's still too effective when an entire group can not chase down and kill the guy because by the time the fastest pursuer gets to the sorc with some form of CC .. the sorc gets his immunity up and is out of the CC by the time the rest of party shows up to try to burn him and he's off to the races once again.

Who says you SHOULD be able to chase down anyone and everyone? Its an escape mechanism. Sounds like the group having trouble was just raging that someone was getting away and failed to use any real counter tactics. I'll even go as far as to assume this group spammed magic attacks while the sorc had harness magicka up, giving him all that magicka he needed to continue to spam it. Not to mention he could have also had the warlock or other 5 piece set bonus, giving more magicka. None of which are issues with bolt escape. Using bolt escape more than once in 4 sec costs a whole hell of a lot of mana. The tooltip says 50% more, but we all know that it's 50% NOT including reductions, which comes out to more like 70 something percent. The only thing left to say here is L2P.

Unfortunately we are going to see a lot more of these, nerf this class or that skill, threads now with some of the new set bonus combos. Hopefully ZOS will fix the actual roots of these problems and not what the "jump to conclusions without sufficient evidence" crowd perceives as the problem.

A little of topic here, but what exactly do people consider spam anyway? With only ten abilities, some of which are toggles (magelight, etc.), we only have so many options. Or should we just light attack everyone with a skill or two sprinkled in here and there? Of course then you'd be accused of "spamming" light attacks...ugh, some people.

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

NorthernFury wrote: »

Sheaden wrote: »

NorthernFury wrote: »

Effective use of a class specific skill does not mean class needs a nerf.

It was nerfed because it was too effective before. It's still too effective when an entire group can not chase down and kill the guy because by the time the fastest pursuer gets to the sorc with some form of CC .. the sorc gets his immunity up and is out of the CC by the time the rest of party shows up to try to burn him and he's off to the races once again.

Considering stealthed players with certain setups can keep up with horses now, this really doesn't hold any water. He was built to evade the people that he was evading, and they weren't built to catch him. It could have been done, and doesn't justify breaking a class-defining skill because some people didn't like it being used effectively.

@ Sheaden - Agreed. It was nerfed for a reason. IMO it shouldn't be spammable without prodigious use of Magicka pots and the right gear for magicka regen. The ability to BE while CC'd needs to be removed. Sorc should have to break CC before they can BE. The stun on BE needs to be reworked too , such that it doesn't stun when used within 4 seconds of previous BE. This would cut back it's use as an offensive ability but not totally.

I don't believe the sorcs need to be as decked out in gear as some are suggesting to spam BE, but I could be wrong.

To be fair to @NorthernFury if a Sorc is running / BE and in trouble a NB can keep the pressure on with Path of Darkness and use of Magicka / Stamina pots. Path of Darkness provides a 50% movement increase and is spammable. Additionally if someone uses rapid maneuvers and some of the new set gear, that mage will be hard pressed to get away. Chances are at that point though the Sorc turns and nails the squishy NB and few not especially equipped and adept will be able to endanger a BEing sorc...IMO.

I don't think that 50% increase is as fast as it sounds on paper. Also the range isn't that great on it and you would really have to spam it a lot to try to keep up with a sorcerer. I seriously wouldn't consider that a viable tactic.

I've actually used it to pretty decent effect. That said, I'm not speaking of going after a Sorc that is fresh and bolting. That's suicide, but a sorc that is damaged, magicka depleted and GTFO BEing to save his butt. THAT Guy is vulnerable and a viable target for this tactic.

Path of Darkness is limited but I think it's better than you and many NB realize. I'm no expert and only closing in on V3 with my NB but I've been intrigued with this skill. I would like to see the path be a little longer though, maybe 5 - 10 meters.

Are you seriously complaining that the ability Bolt ESCAPE needs to be nerfed because people who use it sometimes ESCAPE?

gap closers need to be nerfed because that guy charged/teleported to me.

blocking needs to be nerfed because that guy blocked my damage.

Ziz wrote: »

You people defending bolt escape are delusional. Instant get away with basically no effort.

I'm In the process of lvling a Sorc because it's op. add into it the permenant incapacitate *** and it's the most op skill in the game.

ZoS and you people are blind.

I agree wholeheartedly Ziz. I mean people defending it in this thread act like we've never even seen the skill tree or something.

Sorc in 7 Light Armor - 21% reduction in magicka cost due to LA passives.

Expert Mage passive = 10% reduction to storm calling spells i.e. Bolt Escape

Unholy Knowledge = 5% Magicka and Stamina reduction to everything.

Seducer 5 pc set = 8% reduction to all magicka abilities.

Breton Racial = 3% reduction to all magicka based abilities

So that's 47% reduction right there without considering other possible set combinations that also effectively reduce spell costs. Also doesn't take into consideration any cost reduction jewelry that may also be worn.

Let's ALSO give them 15% ultimate cost reduction as a PASSIVE lulz. (NOT OP)

A PASSIVE that heals them for 5% MAX health when using one of their most powerful offensive attacks i.e. crystals fragments which is dark magic. Synergizes pretty well with critical surge which heals for 50% of all crit damage. Must be nice at end game to have your 900+ crit damage insta-cast crystal fragment healing you for nearly 600 between the blood magic passive and critical surge. I can't see why this would be OP at all when I hear people in my trade guilds discussing their 75%+ crit percentage. (NOT OP)

Hey Ziz I think I just talked talked myself into rolling a sorc. Hey why don't we ALL play sorcs. It can just be Elder Sorcs Online and we don't need to change the whole ESO bit then.

It is a little sad when you look at how ridiculous these sorc passives/abilities are in comparison to most others and then you think about the guy wanting to play a warrior archetype and he gets absolutely no love whatsoever. You wield a 2h axe? lololololol #good1bro #usofunny #attacksometreesnoob

NorthernFury wrote: »

Did you not read my post above about NB's in stealth being able to match horse speed?.

Please don't lie to try and make a point.

The main speed boost comes from being a vampire and wearing the correct armour set, Concealed Weapon for Nightblades isn't the issue and anyone can wear the item set and anyone can be vampire.

You also have to be in actual stealth and HIDDEN (not just crouched or in Nightblade invisible), which means out of combat and then waiting 2 secs for your eye to close.

Good luck catching anything.

That set is good for one thing, making your first attack. That's pretty much it, and I'd take 5 Hundings and 3 Ashens over it.

Well, If you cause diminishing returns for bolt escape, then other spells with need diminishing returns if spammed.

On my sorc, I can cast BE 6 times in a row... no buffs and not even in set armor... I can escape a group like mentioned in the above post about half of the time. I just run until I have enough magicka and bolt again until they stop chasing or I get back to my group who then slaughters the mess out of those chasing me.

Richard.A.Ferrellub17_ESO wrote: »

Are you seriously complaining that the ability Bolt ESCAPE needs to be nerfed because people who use it sometimes ESCAPE?

gap closers need to be nerfed because that guy charged/teleported to me.

blocking needs to be nerfed because that guy blocked my damage.

This has got to be my favorite defense that Sorcs use to keep defend BE. It's called Bolt ESCAPE, the user should escape...

Shall we use that logic on some other abilities. How about Death Stroke from NB. It's called DEATH Stroke, so if you get hit by it you should die right? Maybe from a Stroke since it has the word Stroke in it too... So when you get hit by this NB ability, by your own logic, Your character should die from a stroke...