Incessant stutter/losing sanity

oldskool2485 · August 2014

This game is a horrible stuttering mess for me. I have stopped playing because the stuttering has become unbearable. It's too stressful to enjoy the game. Constant hitching/stuttering/jerking everywhere I go.

This on a:
i7 2700k @ 4.60ghz
AMD 7970 1000/1500 latest drivers (14.7)
8gb RAM 1600mhz
SSD
Windows 7 64 bit

Latest bios, requestednumthreads set to 0 or -1 doesnt help, overclock and no overclock, minimum settings/maximum settings, RadeonPro, Hyperthreading on/off, Vsync or no vsync, run without launcher...

I have noticed in MSI afterburner the stuttering occurs when the frametime jumps from 16ms to 29ms. This is occuring constantly like a yoyo. While playing Borderlands 2 the frametime stays at 16ms and is butter smooth.

I feel like I have tried everything. The stutter got worse after update 3 where the game now stutters on the character select screen, just spinning the character around! It did NOT do that before the update.

Other games like TitanFall, Counter Strike Source, Trine 2, L4D2, Trials Fusion etc. all run fine.

My FPS in game without Vsync is usually above 80fps, but doesn't feel like it.

Honestly, WHAT can I do to run this game smoothly?

I want to enjoy this game

AzureButterfly · August 2014

Have you had any crashes? I've had memory issues since the last Update, where the game would use 99% of the allocated RAM and eventually crash - but before crashing, it's horrifically laggy. ZOS is applying a hotfix today to fix the memory issues, so the lag might be alleviated soon.

However, I've always had framerate and stuttering issues in ESO, just because of connection issues. TF2 and Age of Empires both work flawlessly on my computer, but for whatever reason ESO is more finicky. It's probably just a problem because ZOS' servers are so new and haven't had the kinks ironed out yet.

indytims_ESO · August 2014

The only issue I have experience with stuttering/hitching was when I have -certain- programs running in the background. For example, I often have Stronghold Kingdoms (a web-based game) up in my browser in the background. When I do, the stuttering in ESO is -HORRIFIC-. Once I close the web browser then return to ESO... all is well.

But I can be doing other things in my web browser that doesn't cause such issues. So you might just make sure that you have nothing running in the background and see if that helps?

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · August 2014

> the frametime jumps from 16ms to 29ms

This is a jump between 1 and 2 vsync intervals, or 60 and 30 FPS. You seem to be just at the border for your GPU to manage 60 FPS, so it keeps trying and makes it only for some frames. The animation uses the wrong time step for the frame before the jump and the frame after the jump, and this can be a pain on the eyes.

Try lowering your resolution or your graphics quality slightly to get a steady 60 FPS, or increase it slightly to knock it down to a steady 30 FPS. Either should make for less stuttering, but I would recommend trying to stay at 60 FPS if you can.

Without vsync, however, stuttering should not be that much of an issue, even though there would be some visible tearing. I apologize if this is rude of me, but are you sure you have your graphics driver set to honor the in-game vsync settings, or alternatively made the graphics driver override the in-game settings? I am sometimes playing on a laptop that is a bit underpowered and manages around the same frame rates as you report at an OK quality setting, and I can run it comfortably as long as I keep vsync off. With vsync on it stutters way too much.

(Edit: spelling)
(Edit: stupid confusion of ms with fps - I should not post when I am hungry.)

oldskool2485 · August 2014

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

> the frametime jumps from 16ms to 29ms

This is a jump between 2 and 3 vsync intervals. You seem to be just at the border for your GPU to manage 30 FPS, so it keeps trying and makes it only for some frames. The animation uses the wrong time step for the frame before the jump and the frame after the jump, and this can be a pain on the eyes.

Without vsync I get FPS above 80 and often hitting the limit of 100. Not sure what you mean by struggling to manage 30fps?

Maybe there is something about vsync I am not understanding?
With vsync on it report 60fps but the stutters happen when it goes to 59fps for a split second. This is often, causing the frustrating stutter. And pretty much anything under 60fps looks horrendous.
7970 is a pretty high end GPU. Unless it's an AMD thing and the drivers just suck? I don't know

jambam817_ESO · August 2014

I see the same thing with my
i5 3570k @ 4.2ghz
GTX 780 SuperClocked
16 Gigs system Ram

I can sustain high FPS, but in areas like cities and occasionally the one off open world area, my FPS will stutter dropping from Vsynced 60 FPS (Nvidia Adaptive and Normal, tried both) to below 50, sometimes its minor drops, but the stutter is there. Sprinting and Riding Horses increases the occurance

oldskool2485 · August 2014

That's exactly it, especially quicker movement like you say - sprinting or on horseback.

Yet my friend who has a:
q6600 @ 2.4ghz
amd 6850
6gb ram

reports no issues at all. Why are higher end machines getting worse performance?!

Elsonso · August 2014

Define stuttering.

Are we talking about long stops and starts or really quick and fast stops and starts? How long or how short?

Are we talking NPCs, monsters, and other players doing a stop and go movement while everything else seems OK?

Are we talking about the whole image on the screen doing a stop and start, even with hands off the keyboard?

Are we talking about the player moving around and seeing the world do a stop and start as the player moves and looks around?

Are we talking about the UI doing a stop and start when opening, closing, or a delayed mouse movement?

jambam817_ESO · August 2014

oldskool2485 wrote: »

That's exactly it, especially quicker movement like you say - sprinting or on horseback.

Yet my friend who has a:
q6600 @ 2.4ghz
amd 6850
6gb ram

reports no issues at all. Why are higher end machines getting worse performance?!

That is a great question. Perhaps its something with DirectX11 rendering. Older machines/cards may be using DX9 instead.
Also, no problems like this before the "Fancy Window Lighting" patch a month ago or so. There's gotta be something in the lighting that is causing this. Is that particular Lighting Effect a DX11 only option?

jambam817_ESO · August 2014

lordrichter wrote: »

Define stuttering.

Are we talking about long stops and starts or really quick and fast stops and starts? How long or how short?

Are we talking NPCs, monsters, and other players doing a stop and go movement while everything else seems OK?

Are we talking about the whole image on the screen doing a stop and start, even with hands off the keyboard?

Are we talking about the player moving around and seeing the world do a stop and start as the player moves and looks around?

Are we talking about the UI doing a stop and start when opening, closing, or a delayed mouse movement?

The OP and myself have indicated Frame Stuttering. This has to do with the whole scene rendered on the screen, and the Frames Per Second value fluctuating quickly from capped (Vsync or Frame limiters, whichever) value to a value underneath. This is usually observed as FPS drops from 60 to 55+ quickly, usually within that same second, or 2 seconds. Sure its playable, but it is not smooth and is not comfortable on the eyes for people that see it.

Most games can remain capped at 60FPS (or your desired rate) and will not quickly shutter between 59 and 60.

This would especially be noticeable when riding a sprinting horse, sprinting yourself, or panning the camera around quickly.

SirenofEntropy · August 2014

I see some pretty extreme fps fluctuations myself. On my end the stuttering doesn't ever get so bad that I can't play, but the game feels noticeably less smooth when the fps is dropping from 60 to 35ish very rapidly. I too have noticed that it occurs the most often when around intense lighting effects, so that probably has something to do with it.

My system specs:
AMD Six Core Processor 3.5 ghz
12gb of RAM
Nvidia 660 gpu with 2 gb vram, drivers updated

I've experienced this both before and after updated my gpu drivers so I don't believe it is driver related.

The memory hotfix from today's update seems to have stopped my crashing, but the bad fps is still present which leads me to believe that they are unrelated.

oldskool2485 · August 2014

This may be related to the game's poor multithreading implementation - most of the rendering is done on a single core. I attached an image to show what it looks like. On most games that run smoothly the threading will be spread nice and evenly across the cores.
Could this be what causes the stutter?

mgoss79b14_ESO · August 2014

It's not your computer, trust me. Frame rates have been dropping with every patch regardless of build. The game ran it's best right at release.

SirenofEntropy · August 2014

mgoss79b14_ESO wrote: »

It's not your computer, trust me. Frame rates have been dropping with every patch regardless of build. The game ran it's best right at release.

This is true. Perhaps ZOS should stop focusing on adding new/improved graphics effects in the game and focus more on improving the performance of what they already have in place.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · August 2014

That CPU monitor plot looks horrible for a modern multi-threaded application. Really, really poor load balancing there. No wonder the frame rate is so uneven and sensitive to disturbances when all rendering is done by one core that sits at 100%.

oldskool2485 · August 2014

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

That CPU monitor plot looks horrible for a modern multi-threaded application. Really, really poor load balancing there. No wonder the frame rate is so uneven and sensitive to disturbances when all rendering is done by one core that sits at 100%.

You couldn't make it up could you? An MMO that runs on single core. This is a premium game that cost me €55 and another €12.50 a month since April.

I guess there is nothing we can do on our end to help this?

I can only hope that when the game is released on PS4/Xbox One the multithreading is improved.

Phinix1 · August 2014

This is indeed a problem since 1.3. It seems to occur most often when there are many other players in your visible range/direction. Frame rate dips and one core pegs. I almost never dropped below 60 FPS before.

Here is me just standing in Reaper's March doing nothing:

Here is what my graphics card was doing at this moment. As you can see, barely even hitting 50%:

This is NOT a video card (or system) issue, and changing any settings on our side won't help. This is 100% an issue with load balancing desperately needing a revamp.

Specs:

i7 3770k @ 4.4ghz
GTX 780 @ 1.1 ghz
16gb RAM @ 2.1 ghz
Windows 7 64-bit Ultimate.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · August 2014

I can only hope that when the game is released on PS4/Xbox One the multithreading is improved.

It probably won't pass certification by either MS or Sony until it is better written. I think they still have a long way to go before their code is fit for a console release.

Paske · August 2014

I have same issues.

i7 4700HQ @ 3,2 GHz
24 GB system RAM
Nvidia GTX 770 with 3 GB Video ram
Game is on SSD
Driver: 340.52 WHQL

Normally game runs at 60 FPS. But when running around it may drop to 35 and back to 60 in mere seconds, just few steps apart.

Still its normally stable at 50-60 FPS.

Play with settings from Ultra to medium and its still "jerky". Like game is dropping a frame. Not to the point I cant play, but very irritating. I would say that from time lighting effects came I use 50% of game time fiddling with settings trying to find sweet spot where there is no stuttering.

The system should be able to handle the game.
Also 50+ FPS is more the enough for smooth game experience. But it isnt.

hunterscottkayub17_ESO · August 2014

I'm having difficulty with the stutter as well. Just started recently with the patch. Game almost unplayable due to the whole screen freezing. My char is able to move a little sometimes and most of the time I have to reboot. Occasionally,the play will catch up with players and action speeding up the 5, 10, 15 sec the screen had froze. It will also happen when I'm doing absolutely nothing.

i7 2400K @ 3.40Ghz
16GB
64 bit OS Win 7
NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560Ti
My download speeds at 15 Mbs, with 11 Mbs upload, 9 ping.

Yes an older system but it did not have these problems a few days ago after the patch.

jambam817_ESO · August 2014

I wanted to add as well. Last night i disabled VSync on my hardware and in game. Frame rates stayed ABOVE 60, constantly hitting 80+, but the stuttering was even MORE noticeable. At high frame rates, the stuttering was more present, not really what i expected when i tried this out.
And yes, this was stuttering, not Tearing, which was present as well but to be expected. FPS fluctuated alot above 60 FPS. It did not dip like it does when VSync is enabled, which brought FPS below 60 FPS.

Not a smooth experience above or below 60FPS... Makes no sense!

oldskool2485 · August 2014

It would be good if someone from Zenimax on the forums here would pass this thread along to the developers or something. The game cannot be allowed to continue running on a single core! The game has come a long way since it released in April, but they really need to focus on the performance aspect.

SirenofEntropy · August 2014

Yes, yes, yes. They really need to improve multi-threading. Like, ASAP. As somebody who uses an AMD Six-Core processor the game should not be utilizing only ONE of those cores to operate. Like other posters have said, my issue is not server lag, it isn't a crappy GPU as I can stay at 60 fps or above with vsync off, and it isn't memory-related (at least not anymore, since they fixed the leak). It's the CPU being taxed on one core, pure and simple.

The game was really smooth when I first started playing a month ago, but it's been getting progressively more jerky with every new update.

C3N50R3D · December 2014

Are single GPU users still experiencing this? When using SLI in Surround, this has not been fixed and needs new SLI profile or game update. SLI Surround stutter is a constant microstutter when panning the camera not a periodic framerate freezing or hitching.

More info here. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1399929/#Comment_1399929

Other user comments on SLI on Nvidia page
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/781582/sli/broken-pc-ports-of-games-affecting-sli-performance/