8 trait sets - underpowered?

firstdecan · August 2014

If they really wanted to make the 8 trait sets desirable, they could provide the "substantial" bonus at 3 pieces instead of 5. When Zeni retooled all the sets, they gave a series of adequate bonuses for 2, 3, and four piece sets, but left the "substantial" bonus at the fifth piece. If they provided a "substantial" bonus at the third piece for 8 trait sets, crafters would have an incentive to create them since players could now wear a second crafted set with a "substantial" bonus. As it stands, these sets are a little underwhelming. I assume this was done to err on the side of caution and not make the sets OP.

This is disappointing for me, I had worked to get a gladiator set before the 1.3 armor changes, only to find the set was bugged and didn't provide all the bonuses. Now it's just less than desirable. The CC break reduction is almost useless since you get temporary immunity to CC in PvP from breaking one. All the other bonuses are available in varying combos from other sets.

I'm sure Zen will tweak further. I wish they would simply put thought into the "Chess Match" that should occur between payer abilities instead of coding something and then proclaiming "whoa, that was cool."

Shunravi · August 2014

Tyr wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

My major problem with Sets in general is it completely devalues the end game PVE. the only way to get these two aspects of the game to mesh is to reduce the rate of harvesting them from refinement . then add Purple and gold mats as drop from the bosses in VR Dungeons.

this system completely devalues all of the VR content aside from the sets in hard mode trials. 8 traits could use a rework. But being able to make the best armor in game with out ever doing the content or having to at least barter with the people who are doing it is the worst game design i have ever seen.

If you have no interest in doing the actual content and want to purely craft that is fine, that should be available to you. But this current system completely destoyed any value of doing VR dungeons and trials for the most part.

Well I wouldn't worry about it too much since we will be getting formal Tier's Seasons of Dropped gear progression with the champion system.

Best gear will be the current season dropped dungeon/Trial gear followed by crafted and then the previous season PVE gear.

So basically you'll have the best gear from dropped sets for a few months then you'll be able to craft or buy equivalent quality stuff when the next trial/champion dungeon comes out.

Huzaah for boring, pointless, inconsequential, and redundant crafting! Exactly what we were promised.

/sarcasm off

Aeratus · August 2014

NerfEverything wrote: »

Zen promised us that crafters would be able to create the best items in the game. Zen lied to us. The 8 trait sets suck compared to trials/PvP sets.

Actually, most of the PvP sets aren't that good.

Shunravi · August 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

Zen promised us that crafters would be able to create the best items in the game. Zen lied to us. The 8 trait sets suck compared to trials/PvP sets.

Actually, most of the PvP sets aren't that good.

Says a lot when the 8 traits are worse then doesn't it?

indigoblades · August 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

The problem with the barrier to entry is that it is not based on in-game time, but real life time. A new player can grind to v12 after a few days by playing 19 hours a day, but still has to wait 2 months for a single line to finish research.

Your post makes it sound like one can log in 5 minutes a day and months later one has 8 traits sets. Thats just not true, a crafter spends many hours a day doing nothing but crafting. Also every item has a couple of traits that are somewhat rare. .... After 5 months crafting/playing, i can make 8 trait WW and clothing and will be able to make 8 trait armor in another month. At least 2/3 of my time is spent crafting otherwise i would be VR12 instead of VR5.

Anyway, thats why i think the 8 trait armor should be much more OP. 6 trait can be researched in only 2 weeks. And many of the 6 traits are stronger than the 8 trait. The 5 and lower trait armors are at least 95% as good as the best 8 trait and can be research so quick, 5 trait in 4 days, 4 trait 2 days and 3 trait in a day.

Any way i HOPE ZOS introduce's some better 8 trait sets in future.

maxilaub17_ESO · August 2014

I agree even though I can make 8 trait armor I don't wear any, I get better overall stats from armor that is made with less traits. Eight trait armor is underwhelming and disappointing.

Aeratus · August 2014

cwbriggs6ub17_ESO wrote: »

Your post makes it sound like one can log in 5 minutes a day and months later one has 8 traits sets.

Some of the traits used to be rare, and near launch I've seen people ask 2-4k for a single trait for research. Nowadays, you can buy pretty much any trait for 400 g.

So once you've purchased all the traits from other crafters, you can pretty much just log in 5 mins a day (to keep the research ongoing) and reach 8 trait in 2 months.

Just to be clear, I have many 8-trait lines, so better 8-trait pieces is certainly good for me. But I'm not sure if the barrier to entry would be good for the game.

LonePirate · August 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

Zen promised us that crafters would be able to create the best items in the game. Zen lied to us. The 8 trait sets suck compared to trials/PvP sets.

Actually, most of the PvP sets aren't that good.

I am going to disagree with this simply because several of the PVP sets come with jewelry which allows players to wear sets of 5/3/3 or 5/5/2 (or 5/4/3) if using a shield or dual wield weapons. With numerous options available to obtain bonuses from three sets simultaneously, you can build/purchase a nice PVP gear collection. There are far fewer options to do that with dropped pieces and no chances to do that with crafted gear since there are no craftable sets with jewelry.

Wifeaggro13 · August 2014

Tyr wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

My major problem with Sets in general is it completely devalues the end game PVE. the only way to get these two aspects of the game to mesh is to reduce the rate of harvesting them from refinement . then add Purple and gold mats as drop from the bosses in VR Dungeons.

this system completely devalues all of the VR content aside from the sets in hard mode trials. 8 traits could use a rework. But being able to make the best armor in game with out ever doing the content or having to at least barter with the people who are doing it is the worst game design i have ever seen.

If you have no interest in doing the actual content and want to purely craft that is fine, that should be available to you. But this current system completely destoyed any value of doing VR dungeons and trials for the most part.

Well I wouldn't worry about it too much since we will be getting formal Tier's Seasons of Dropped gear progression with the champion system.

Best gear will be the current season dropped dungeon/Trial gear followed by crafted and then the previous season PVE gear.

So basically you'll have the best gear from dropped sets for a few months then you'll be able to craft or buy equivalent quality stuff when the next trial/champion dungeon comes out.

I do not think ill be around in 9 more months when that actualy hits live. Thats easily 5updates away

dsalter · August 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

I can appreciate the opinion of those who think making the 8 trait sets too powerful due to a high barrier of entry (time) when most people simply won't commit the time to research everything. However, emphasis should always be placed on the positive reward/benefit instead of a negative insurance policy. There should be a reward for the investment and effort for the research. These greater bonuses do not matter in PVE because it is not competitive apart from trials the bonuses and can easily be countered by superior skill in PVP. Essentially there is no reason why 8 trait set bonuses shouldn't be obviously superior to the 2-6 trait bonuses. The game should reward crafters who reach complete that much work. Right now, there is no incentive to do so.

I recommend a gradual increase in the magnitude of the 2-4 piece bonuses as the number of required traits increases. For instance, the 2 trait Night's Silence set offers a +10 Stamina Recovery bonus. Using that as a base, a 3 trait set should offer +12, the 4 trait should be +14, the 5 trait should be +16, the 6 trait should be +18 and the 8 trait should be +25.

As for the 8 trait sets' bonuses for 5 pieces, let me recommend these changes which would make these sets desirable without being too powerful.

Arena - 70% cost reduction of Break Free with a 5 second cooldown

Eyes of Mara - 15% cost reduction in Magicka costs of any staff restoration skill and 5% increased magicka regen while equipping a resto staff

Kagrenac's Hope - 40% time reduction when resurrecting an ally and +800 damage shield while resurrecting an ally and fully restores the targets health and applies the 800 damage shield to them

Oblivion's Foe - old 5 set bonus and make resurrection instant cast, 5min Cooldown

Orgnum's Scales - 100% increase in health recovery for 20 seconds and a 10% damage reduction intake when below 50% health with a 30 second cooldown

Shalidor's Curse - +1000 Health when below 40% Health with a two minute cool down damage delt leeches 5% of the targets current health (0.5% on boss enemies), with a 15second cooldown

Spectre's Eye - 25% chance to reflect an enemy's spell in full after casting your own spellin combat causes you to fade out (visually by like 30-40% transparency) and passively gives you 15% to dodge an incoming attack with a 6 second cooldown

your idea seemed abit unbalanced so made some alterations and revamps

reften · August 2014

dsalter wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

I can appreciate the opinion of those who think making the 8 trait sets too powerful due to a high barrier of entry (time) when most people simply won't commit the time to research everything. However, emphasis should always be placed on the positive reward/benefit instead of a negative insurance policy. There should be a reward for the investment and effort for the research. These greater bonuses do not matter in PVE because it is not competitive apart from trials the bonuses and can easily be countered by superior skill in PVP. Essentially there is no reason why 8 trait set bonuses shouldn't be obviously superior to the 2-6 trait bonuses. The game should reward crafters who reach complete that much work. Right now, there is no incentive to do so.

I recommend a gradual increase in the magnitude of the 2-4 piece bonuses as the number of required traits increases. For instance, the 2 trait Night's Silence set offers a +10 Stamina Recovery bonus. Using that as a base, a 3 trait set should offer +12, the 4 trait should be +14, the 5 trait should be +16, the 6 trait should be +18 and the 8 trait should be +25.

As for the 8 trait sets' bonuses for 5 pieces, let me recommend these changes which would make these sets desirable without being too powerful.

Arena - 70% cost reduction of Break Free with a 5 second cooldown

Eyes of Mara - 15% cost reduction in Magicka costs of any staff restoration skill and 5% increased magicka regen while equipping a resto staff

Kagrenac's Hope - 40% time reduction when resurrecting an ally and +800 damage shield while resurrecting an ally and fully restores the targets health and applies the 800 damage shield to them

Oblivion's Foe - old 5 set bonus and make resurrection instant cast, 5min Cooldown

Orgnum's Scales - 100% increase in health recovery for 20 seconds and a 10% damage reduction intake when below 50% health with a 30 second cooldown

Shalidor's Curse - +1000 Health when below 40% Health with a two minute cool down damage delt leeches 5% of the targets current health (0.5% on boss enemies), with a 15second cooldown

Spectre's Eye - 25% chance to reflect an enemy's spell in full after casting your own spellin combat causes you to fade out (visually by like 30-40% transparency) and passively gives you 15% to dodge an incoming attack with a 6 second cooldown

your idea seemed abit unbalanced so made some alterations and revamps

Even these are too defense/utility focused.

Give as melee high damage dealers (even stamina ranged people) something to really chew on.

20% increase in stamina use for weapon skills for a 20% increase in damage dealt.

dsalter · August 2014

oren74 wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

I can appreciate the opinion of those who think making the 8 trait sets too powerful due to a high barrier of entry (time) when most people simply won't commit the time to research everything. However, emphasis should always be placed on the positive reward/benefit instead of a negative insurance policy. There should be a reward for the investment and effort for the research. These greater bonuses do not matter in PVE because it is not competitive apart from trials the bonuses and can easily be countered by superior skill in PVP. Essentially there is no reason why 8 trait set bonuses shouldn't be obviously superior to the 2-6 trait bonuses. The game should reward crafters who reach complete that much work. Right now, there is no incentive to do so.

I recommend a gradual increase in the magnitude of the 2-4 piece bonuses as the number of required traits increases. For instance, the 2 trait Night's Silence set offers a +10 Stamina Recovery bonus. Using that as a base, a 3 trait set should offer +12, the 4 trait should be +14, the 5 trait should be +16, the 6 trait should be +18 and the 8 trait should be +25.

As for the 8 trait sets' bonuses for 5 pieces, let me recommend these changes which would make these sets desirable without being too powerful.

Arena - 70% cost reduction of Break Free with a 5 second cooldown

Eyes of Mara - 15% cost reduction in Magicka costs of any staff restoration skill and 5% increased magicka regen while equipping a resto staff

Kagrenac's Hope - 40% time reduction when resurrecting an ally and +800 damage shield while resurrecting an ally and fully restores the targets health and applies the 800 damage shield to them

Oblivion's Foe - old 5 set bonus and make resurrection instant cast, 5min Cooldown

Orgnum's Scales - 100% increase in health recovery for 20 seconds and a 10% damage reduction intake when below 50% health with a 30 second cooldown

Shalidor's Curse - +1000 Health when below 40% Health with a two minute cool down damage delt leeches 5% of the targets current health (0.5% on boss enemies), with a 15second cooldown

Spectre's Eye - 25% chance to reflect an enemy's spell in full after casting your own spellin combat causes you to fade out (visually by like 30-40% transparency) and passively gives you 15% to dodge an incoming attack with a 6 second cooldown

your idea seemed abit unbalanced so made some alterations and revamps

Even these are too defense/utility focused.

Give as melee high damage dealers (even stamina ranged people) something to really chew on.

20% increase in stamina use for weapon skills for a 20% increase in damage dealt.

reason for the high amount of utility is you dont want sets being to one sided as some medium setups use magicka for instance

Illuvatarr · August 2014

oren74 wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

No matter your class you should have 5 piece seducer, 3 piece magnus and 3 piece warlock with spell damage on it.

Not for NB PvP'ing. Magicka recovery and cost of spells is worthless when trying to take down someone as fast as possible.

Strike and disappear...

Who says NB's have to strike and disappear?=) The best NB's I know give me a run for my money on my sorc by straight up fighting.

reften · August 2014

@dsalter‌

That's fine, That's why there are lots of set options. I guess I want a set similar to the Stygian set. (with the 5-piece bonus is 20% increase in spell damage while sneaking)

But with Stygian, I can't pick my traits or craft anything even close to this.

EDIT: I mean, all the time spent crafting and getting 8 trait sets...and I'm getting close to not using any crafted items seems crazy.

reften · August 2014

Illuvatarr wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

No matter your class you should have 5 piece seducer, 3 piece magnus and 3 piece warlock with spell damage on it.

Not for NB PvP'ing. Magicka recovery and cost of spells is worthless when trying to take down someone as fast as possible.

Strike and disappear...

Who says NB's have to strike and disappear?=) The best NB's I know give me a run for my money on my sorc by straight up fighting.

I hear ya, guess should have said, strike, kill, and disappear to find the next target.

dsalter · August 2014

oren74 wrote: »

@dsalter‌

That's fine, That's why there are lots of set options. I guess I want a set similar to the Stygian set. (with the 5-piece bonus is 20% increase in spell damage while sneaking)

But with Stygian, I can't pick my traits or craft anything even close to this.

EDIT: I mean, all the time spent crafting and getting 8 trait sets...and I'm getting close to not using any crafted items seems crazy.

drop sets and craft sets are a difference and exception to this as set drops usually do follow some stereotypical play based on armor but also have some pretty mixed up ones. for instance that shadow-dance one i think it was called? makes you move at an unrestricted stealth speed despite being light.
but usually will follow a typical arch-type when it comes to drop sets. crafted sets aren't bound by a specific armor type so have to be viable for several play arch-types else be redeemed useless

reften · August 2014

dsalter wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

@dsalter‌

That's fine, That's why there are lots of set options. I guess I want a set similar to the Stygian set. (with the 5-piece bonus is 20% increase in spell damage while sneaking)

But with Stygian, I can't pick my traits or craft anything even close to this.

EDIT: I mean, all the time spent crafting and getting 8 trait sets...and I'm getting close to not using any crafted items seems crazy.

drop sets and craft sets are a difference and exception to this as set drops usually do follow some stereotypical play based on armor but also have some pretty mixed up ones. for instance that shadow-dance one i think it was called? makes you move at an unrestricted stealth speed despite being light.
but usually will follow a typical arch-type when it comes to drop sets. crafted sets aren't bound by a specific armor type so have to be viable for several play arch-types else be redeemed useless

i.e. my earlier post. Example of a possible 5set bonus 8 trait set

20% increase in stamina use for weapon skills for a 20% increase in damage dealt.

black-gryphonb14_ESO · August 2014

Have to agree with the OP - finally learned all 8-traits in my current armor/weapon set-up (5 heavy + 2 Light as well as Sword/Board). Looked at making my new VR6 armor using 8-trait sets and couldn't come up with a 4 or 5-piece combination that was better than my 3-set 3-piece combination (using Song of Lamae, Willow's Path, and Seducer) - and for the naysayers as to my set-choices - all I can say is it is working for me (PvE, not PvP)

Gyudan · August 2014

I have unlocked 90% of all items in 8 traits sets and completely agree with OP. I think all the time I spent researching traits has been wasted.
I'm v12 sorcerer DD and the best gear for me is Aether (trials) + Twilight 's Embrace (3 traits craft). Crafting that requires maybe 1 week of research and the ability to improve item quality efficiently. I feel like I have 3 useless skill-lines: wood-working, blacksmithing and clothing.

jelliedsoup · August 2014

Not even chasing 8 traits. Takes too long and no reward.

reften · August 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Not even chasing 8 traits. Takes too long and no reward.

I look at it as a why not. It's almost free to do...with the maybe they'll improve the sets some day, especially if enough people complain about them on the forums

LonePirate · August 2014

oren74 wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Not even chasing 8 traits. Takes too long and no reward.

I look at it as a why not. It's almost free to do...with the maybe they'll improve the sets some day, especially if enough people complain about them on the forums

Complaining about something on these forums only works if the subject of the complaints is something akin to a game crash or a major progress blocking item. Or, if enough people complain about it both often and loudly (such as with the old VR content), then ZOS listens. Otherwise, there is very little evidence they give anything but lip service to complaints on the forums. They chime in on less than 5% of threads so that should tell you something.

Iago · August 2014

The most useful set I know if is Vampires kiss because of the insane health recovery it gives in PvE I have not PvPd with it yet but I'm guessing will also let me live a lot longer there as well

reften · August 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Not even chasing 8 traits. Takes too long and no reward.

I look at it as a why not. It's almost free to do...with the maybe they'll improve the sets some day, especially if enough people complain about them on the forums

Complaining about something on these forums only works if the subject of the complaints is something akin to a game crash or a major progress blocking item. Or, if enough people complain about it both often and loudly (such as with the old VR content), then ZOS listens. Otherwise, there is very little evidence they give anything but lip service to complaints on the forums. They chime in on less than 5% of threads so that should tell you something.

Hey ZOS, prove this guy wrong. Thoughts from you? Looks like this thread has general consensus of, 8-trait crafting needs some type of love...

demonlkojipub19_ESO · August 2014

yea they are mostly meh and not really stronger than a 2 trait set. I think they are Trying to avoid creating "the one set to rule them all" and making other sets irrelevant, but the long research time is unreasonable in that respect.

Logan9a · August 2014

Clunan wrote: »

The current 8 trait sets are horrible and it's sad. They should have fixed this when they changed all the sets up. Not really rewarding to crafters to gimp them with moderately useless sets.

My buddies and I were deciding which armor to make. Nobody seemed interested in the eight trait sets.

There is so much potential there but the execution is horrible.

I'd still like to be able to strip traits off of other armor and learn them to make your own.

Or, perhaps learn to make custom armor. Unique to each blacksmith. Learning the eight trait sets is just the first step.

Potential without good execution makes me sad.

Vunter · August 2014

Amylar wrote: »

Totally agree with OP. So hard to learn 8 trait, so bad reward...

Waiting time is "hard"?

Slurg · August 2014

Vunter wrote: »

Amylar wrote: »

Totally agree with OP. So hard to learn 8 trait, so bad reward...

Waiting time is "hard"?

It used to be a lot harder to find the items you needed to research all eight traits on some items. Those of us who made the effort to find them are a bit underwhelmed by the reward. Now pretty much everyone can buy what they need to research. So I really don't see a reason not to make these sets a little better.

LonePirate · August 2014

oren74 wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Not even chasing 8 traits. Takes too long and no reward.

I look at it as a why not. It's almost free to do...with the maybe they'll improve the sets some day, especially if enough people complain about them on the forums

Complaining about something on these forums only works if the subject of the complaints is something akin to a game crash or a major progress blocking item. Or, if enough people complain about it both often and loudly (such as with the old VR content), then ZOS listens. Otherwise, there is very little evidence they give anything but lip service to complaints on the forums. They chime in on less than 5% of threads so that should tell you something.

Hey ZOS, prove this guy wrong. Thoughts from you? Looks like this thread has general consensus of, 8-trait crafting needs some type of love...

Yes, please prove me wrong! Show us all that these sets are indeed lame and underpowered given the time (and real world subscription money) required before crafters can make them. These sets are a virtual pay to play microcosm without the actual play aspect because these sets aren't worth using.

reften · August 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Not even chasing 8 traits. Takes too long and no reward.

I look at it as a why not. It's almost free to do...with the maybe they'll improve the sets some day, especially if enough people complain about them on the forums

Complaining about something on these forums only works if the subject of the complaints is something akin to a game crash or a major progress blocking item. Or, if enough people complain about it both often and loudly (such as with the old VR content), then ZOS listens. Otherwise, there is very little evidence they give anything but lip service to complaints on the forums. They chime in on less than 5% of threads so that should tell you something.

Hey ZOS, prove this guy wrong. Thoughts from you? Looks like this thread has general consensus of, 8-trait crafting needs some type of love...

Yes, please prove me wrong! Show us all that these sets are indeed lame and underpowered given the time (and real world subscription money) required before crafters can make them. These sets are a virtual pay to play microcosm without the actual play aspect because these sets aren't worth using.

You might be on to something there...these items really are a pay-to-play group of items, and ZOS doesn't want their game to come off as a pay-to-win game.