8 trait sets - underpowered?

reften · August 2014

Finally have 5 items with 8 traits (Bow, 4 medium armor pieces)...and been looking to adjust my V12 setup.

Looking, I just don't see anything better than my Stygian/Torug combo.

Got me thinking, are these sets underpowered? Or am I missing some awesome utility bonuses to work well...if anything, they all seem defensive focused or utility/highly situational.

So, thoughts on 8 trait sets?

Spectre’s Eye
2 Items◾Adds 157 Armor.
3 Items◾Adds 78 max Magicka
4 Items◾Adds 118 Max Health
5 Items◾Spectre’s Eye: Gain 20% dodge chance for 3 seconds after casting a spell that costs Magicka. This effect can apply once every 6 seconds

Oblivion’s Foe
2 Items◾Adds 10 Health Recovery
3 Items◾Adds 10 Stamina Recovery
4 Items◾Adds 10 Magicka Recovery.
5 Items◾Oblivion’s Foe: Recover two soul gems when resurrecting a fallen ally. 4 minute cooldown

Eyes of Mara
2 Items◾Adds 10 Magicka Recovery
3 Items◾Adds 78 Max Magicka
4 Items◾Adds 7 Spell Damage
5 Items◾Eyes of Mara: Reduce the Magicka cost of Restoration Staff abilities by 12%.

Kagrenac’s Hope
2 Items◾Adds 78 Max Magicka.
3 Items◾Adds 10 Magicka Recovery
4 Items◾Adds 118 Max Health
5 Items◾Kagrenac’s Hope: Decrease time to resurrect an ally by 25%, when resurrecting restore 140 Magicka.

Orgnum’s Scales
2 Items◾Adds 10 Health Recovery
3 Items◾Adds 118 Max Health
4 Items◾Adds 118 Max Health
5 Items◾Orgnum’s Scales: If below 60% Health, increase Health Revoery by 50%.

Shalidor’s Curse
2 Items◾Adds 118 Max Health
3 Items◾Adds 4% Healing Taken
4 Items◾Adds 118 Max Health
5 Items◾Shalidor’s Curse: When attacking a target while you are below 30% Health, gain 560 Health. 1 minute cooldown

Way of the Arena
2 Items◾Adds 118 Max Health
3 Items◾Adds 78 Max Magicka
4 Items◾Adds 78 Max Stamina
5 Items◾Way of the Arena: Reduce cost of Break Free by 40%.

Weberda · August 2014

IMO you are correct. The sets are not worth it. However we plan and act for the future. They may be changed someday or new sets may get added.

Clunan · August 2014

The current 8 trait sets are horrible and it's sad. They should have fixed this when they changed all the sets up. Not really rewarding to crafters to gimp them with moderately useless sets.

Xsorus · August 2014

Arena is good, so is Spectre's Eye..

Eyes of Mara might be interesting for Some healers that aren't templar.

Weberda · August 2014

I suspect some use for them might be found in PvP but in PvE they're not really any good compared to other combos of sets.

Aeratus · August 2014

The 8-traits are poor, but I suspect it's because ZOS didn't want such a high barrier to entry to newcomers. If only 8-trait items were any good, then players who just joined the game would feel too disadvantaged.

Nestor · August 2014

When I look at the 8 trait sets, I see a lot of 2 and 3 piece combos that would be nice to mix with a 5 or 6 trait 5 piece set.

arkansas_ESO · August 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Arena is good, so is Spectre's Eye..

Eyes of Mara might be interesting for Some healers that aren't templar.

If only Eyes of Mara's 4 piece bonus was weapon damage and not spell damage, then it'd be worth grabbing for my DK healer.

R0M2K · August 2014

Crafted Spectres for my NB, sounded cool for a melee NB... and got really dissapointed, a total waste of upgrading mats & research time.

At the moment they are even subpar compared even with 2 traits sets.

They need serious buffs.

Jack-0 · August 2014

They do seem a bit... measly. I find that with a lot of the set bonuses though, not just the 8 trait ones. Atm Seducer is still one of my favourite crafted sets, for my purposes it's better than the Eyes of Mara and Seducer only requires 3 traits! Odd.

Thechemicals · August 2014

The sets are no good yes. The healing 12% one is great for pve and pvp though if you match it with something else and dedicate yourself as a healer only. The classes let you do what you want but the gear

Illuvatarr · August 2014

No matter your class you should have 5 piece seducer, 3 piece magnus and 3 piece warlock with spell damage on it.

Illuvatarr · August 2014

All of your pieces should have impenetrable on them.

Wifeaggro13 · August 2014

oren74 wrote: »

Finally have 5 items with 8 traits (Bow, 4 medium armor pieces)...and been looking to adjust my V12 setup.

Looking, I just don't see anything better than my Stygian/Torug combo.

Got me thinking, are these sets underpowered? Or am I missing some awesome utility bonuses to work well...if anything, they all seem defensive focused or utility/highly situational.

So, thoughts on 8 trait sets?

Spectre’s Eye
2 Items◾Adds 157 Armor.
3 Items◾Adds 78 max Magicka
4 Items◾Adds 118 Max Health
5 Items◾Spectre’s Eye: Gain 20% dodge chance for 3 seconds after casting a spell that costs Magicka. This effect can apply once every 6 seconds

Oblivion’s Foe
2 Items◾Adds 10 Health Recovery
3 Items◾Adds 10 Stamina Recovery
4 Items◾Adds 10 Magicka Recovery.
5 Items◾Oblivion’s Foe: Recover two soul gems when resurrecting a fallen ally. 4 minute cooldown

Eyes of Mara
2 Items◾Adds 10 Magicka Recovery
3 Items◾Adds 78 Max Magicka
4 Items◾Adds 7 Spell Damage
5 Items◾Eyes of Mara: Reduce the Magicka cost of Restoration Staff abilities by 12%.

Kagrenac’s Hope
2 Items◾Adds 78 Max Magicka.
3 Items◾Adds 10 Magicka Recovery
4 Items◾Adds 118 Max Health
5 Items◾Kagrenac’s Hope: Decrease time to resurrect an ally by 25%, when resurrecting restore 140 Magicka.

Orgnum’s Scales
2 Items◾Adds 10 Health Recovery
3 Items◾Adds 118 Max Health
4 Items◾Adds 118 Max Health
5 Items◾Orgnum’s Scales: If below 60% Health, increase Health Revoery by 50%.

Shalidor’s Curse
2 Items◾Adds 118 Max Health
3 Items◾Adds 4% Healing Taken
4 Items◾Adds 118 Max Health
5 Items◾Shalidor’s Curse: When attacking a target while you are below 30% Health, gain 560 Health. 1 minute cooldown

Way of the Arena
2 Items◾Adds 118 Max Health
3 Items◾Adds 78 Max Magicka
4 Items◾Adds 78 Max Stamina
5 Items◾Way of the Arena: Reduce cost of Break Free by 40%.

yes some of them are worse then the 4 and 5 trait. but still vastly better then anything that drops in the hardest content in game. Eyes of mara is probably the best set out of all of them,Shalidor is a good tanking set equal or better to yokeda. in all honesty though anything that adds additional percentage of healing is only good for inept healing .

The game needs a coplete overhaul in itemization, by far the worst itemized game ive ever played outside of AOC at launch.

Amylar · August 2014

Totally agree with OP. So hard to learn 8 trait, so bad reward...

rekina · August 2014

Nope. Don't buff them. They are fine now and I don't want 8 traits to be dominating. It's fked up balance.

Shunravi · August 2014

Endgame crafting in general feels lackluster. Don't get me wrong, crafted sets are strong, but to me the only real benifit they have over many of the dropped sets it the freedom to chose the trait and motif. So 'crafting' ( in many cases but certainly not all) becomes 'upgrading'. Currently, 2 out of the 3 crafted sets I switch between are really just stand-ins untill I can complete some dropped sets.

I am disappointed that I feel this way about the crafting in this game, as I really quite enjoy it. I hope the implement a system where you can still pick up sets like you do now, but the sets would have a unique look and would have their current restrictions. But then I would also like to see rare items like trophies drop from dungeons and world bosses. These trophies could then be used to craft a set piece in any style and with any trait. They could have restrictions to use like 'bound' 'restricted to armor type' and 'required # or specific traits to use'. Then the choice would be between; do I want this set for its unique (and potentially rare) look, or do I want to find a trophy and make it the way I want (provided my crafting is advanced enough). Ex; a trials set would require 8 traits to be able to use the trophy (+some additional restrictions).

Imo, with their philosophy that crafting will always be better, they have not really come through well with implementing it in endgame. They need endgame sets to be good in order to have that progression carrot. But then this clashes with the idea that crafting will be better, as you may as well have legendary sets drop if all your crafting really does is upgrade. If they use the trophy idea or something similar, it could really add to both endgame aspects, keep them both interesting, and add longevity to the game.

But, yes, current 8 traits sets feel lackluster.

Dagoth_Rac · August 2014

Maybe they will buff them when more people have researched 8 traits? To avoid balance issues with the few people with 8-trait sets dominating, or skewing the economy with the few 8-trait crafters charging exorbitant fees?

whvice · August 2014

^thats like saying a level 3 character should have the same power as a level 50 character because otherwise it'll be fked up balance

fully researching all *8*-traits for a set of *5* items may take well over 2-3 months. people should get rewarded on par or, at least, a little better than a 6-trait item for the time commitment. but nope

Thechemicals · August 2014

Illuvatarr wrote: »

No matter your class you should have 5 piece seducer, 3 piece magnus and 3 piece warlock with spell damage on it.

Thats a different approach and i like it, Kewl. Looks like you did that for full impenetrable. I have about 5 pieces of impenetrable and i dont get critted.

ThisOnePosts · August 2014

I can make 8 trait sets, however I never do for myself. IMO, they are useful yes.. but they are not superior to the other trait sets. It's all a matter of your character and what you need. Arena is a nice all around set, and that CC break cost reduction is very nice in PVP, Dungeons, etc..

Slurg · August 2014

I'm still going to finish researching everything to 8 traits because I'm a completionist that way, but right now I also feel everything I want in armor I can already get in my 5-6 trait sets or in dropped sets.

I hope they will consider buffing the 8 trait sets to make them more desirable. A lot more people will have 8 traits soon and it would be nice to see something we can use for the time invested.

Shunravi · August 2014

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Maybe they will buff them when more people have researched 8 traits? To avoid balance issues with the few people with 8-trait sets dominating, or skewing the economy with the few 8-trait crafters charging exorbitant fees?

That's a possibility. No other items require such a long time to access. But when you do, and when you look at other combinations, it's easy to think 'was it worth it?'

Aeratus · August 2014

Illuvatarr wrote: »

No matter your class you should have 5 piece seducer, 3 piece magnus and 3 piece warlock with spell damage on it.

That is exactly my preferred setup for pvp on my light armor Nightblade. I use all pieces impen.

Who needs 8-trait pieces?

Wifeaggro13 · August 2014

My major problem with Sets in general is it completely devalues the end game PVE. the only way to get these two aspects of the game to mesh is to reduce the rate of harvesting them from refinement . then add Purple and gold mats as drop from the bosses in VR Dungeons.

this system completely devalues all of the VR content aside from the sets in hard mode trials. 8 traits could use a rework. But being able to make the best armor in game with out ever doing the content or having to at least barter with the people who are doing it is the worst game design i have ever seen.

If you have no interest in doing the actual content and want to purely craft that is fine, that should be available to you. But this current system completely destoyed any value of doing VR dungeons and trials for the most part.

Akula · August 2014

Oblivion and Kagrenac are both flat out worthless for a full set. Not even worth thinking about.

LonePirate · August 2014

I can appreciate the opinion of those who think making the 8 trait sets too powerful due to a high barrier of entry (time) when most people simply won't commit the time to research everything. However, emphasis should always be placed on the positive reward/benefit instead of a negative insurance policy. There should be a reward for the investment and effort for the research. These greater bonuses do not matter in PVE because it is not competitive apart from trials the bonuses and can easily be countered by superior skill in PVP. Essentially there is no reason why 8 trait set bonuses shouldn't be obviously superior to the 2-6 trait bonuses. The game should reward crafters who reach complete that much work. Right now, there is no incentive to do so.

I recommend a gradual increase in the magnitude of the 2-4 piece bonuses as the number of required traits increases. For instance, the 2 trait Night's Silence set offers a +10 Stamina Recovery bonus. Using that as a base, a 3 trait set should offer +12, the 4 trait should be +14, the 5 trait should be +16, the 6 trait should be +18 and the 8 trait should be +25.

As for the 8 trait sets' bonuses for 5 pieces, let me recommend these changes which would make these sets desirable without being too powerful.

Arena - 100% cost reduction of Break Free with a one minute cool down

Eyes of Mara - 15% cost reduction in Magicka costs of any staff skill

Kagrenac's Hope - 50% time reduction when resurrecting an ally and +800 damage shield while resurrecting an ally

Oblivion's Foe - +25 Spell Danage and Weapon Damage for 30 seconds after resurrecting an ally

Orgnum's Scales - 150% increase in health recovery for 20 seconds when below 50% health with a one minute cool down

Shalidor's Curse - +1000 Health when below 40% Health with a two minute cool down

Spectre's Eye - 25% chance to reflect an enemy's spell in full after casting your own spell

Aeratus · August 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

I can appreciate the opinion of those who think making the 8 trait sets too powerful due to a high barrier of entry (time) when most people simply won't commit the time to research everything. However, emphasis should always be placed on the positive reward/benefit instead of a negative insurance policy. There should be a reward for the investment and effort for the research.

The problem with the barrier to entry is that it is not based on in-game time, but real life time. A new player can grind to v12 after a few days by playing 19 hours a day, but still has to wait 2 months for a single line to finish research.

reften · August 2014

Illuvatarr wrote: »

No matter your class you should have 5 piece seducer, 3 piece magnus and 3 piece warlock with spell damage on it.

Not for NB PvP'ing. Magicka recovery and cost of spells is worthless when trying to take down someone as fast as possible.

Strike and disappear...

Tyr · August 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

My major problem with Sets in general is it completely devalues the end game PVE. the only way to get these two aspects of the game to mesh is to reduce the rate of harvesting them from refinement . then add Purple and gold mats as drop from the bosses in VR Dungeons.

this system completely devalues all of the VR content aside from the sets in hard mode trials. 8 traits could use a rework. But being able to make the best armor in game with out ever doing the content or having to at least barter with the people who are doing it is the worst game design i have ever seen.

If you have no interest in doing the actual content and want to purely craft that is fine, that should be available to you. But this current system completely destoyed any value of doing VR dungeons and trials for the most part.

Well I wouldn't worry about it too much since we will be getting formal Tier's Seasons of Dropped gear progression with the champion system.

Best gear will be the current season dropped dungeon/Trial gear followed by crafted and then the previous season PVE gear.

So basically you'll have the best gear from dropped sets for a few months then you'll be able to craft or buy equivalent quality stuff when the next trial/champion dungeon comes out.

NerfEverything · August 2014

Zen promised us that crafters would be able to create the best items in the game. Zen lied to us. The 8 trait sets suck compared to trials/PvP sets.