Maintenance for the week of May 25:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – May 27, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – May 27, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
Optional Thread
jrgray93
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
✭✭
I see so many people suggesting useful UI additions like chat bubbles, character frames, damage readouts, etc. A lot of people want them. A lot of other people want the clean bare-minimum UI they currently have and absolutely refuse to support these UI ideas. They simply say "no" and move along.
You know how the game forces you to display your helmet? You know how it forces you to have your chat box always show? You know how it forces you to have your skill bars always show?
Oh. Wait. It doesn't.
See, there's this magical word that makes things work for everybody at the same time. It's called "optional." As in, if you don't like it, turn it off.
I know "not everyone wants the same features as me" is a difficult concept to grasp, but can we at least try?
op·tion·al
ˈäpSHənl/
adjective
available to be chosen but not obligatory.
You know how the game forces you to display your helmet? You know how it forces you to have your chat box always show? You know how it forces you to have your skill bars always show?
Oh. Wait. It doesn't.
See, there's this magical word that makes things work for everybody at the same time. It's called "optional." As in, if you don't like it, turn it off.
I know "not everyone wants the same features as me" is a difficult concept to grasp, but can we at least try?
op·tion·al
ˈäpSHənl/
adjective
available to be chosen but not obligatory.
EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job
8
-
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭This. I wouldn't mind having things like chat bubbles and damage meters officially implemented, as long as I can turn it off. Other people want things that I don't - that doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to have it.-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —4 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Addons are not an option now?
Oh. Wait. They are.
Addons can't do some of the things people want to see, nor is it reasonable to rely upon them for everything, since they break constantly.
That's a really, really, really bad argument that I am just absolutely sick of hearing.Edited by jrgray93 on August 13, 2014 3:23PMEP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job2 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And I'm absolutely sick of hearing the "It's just an option!" argument.
They could put in an option to replace everyone's helm with a giant grumpy cat face. They could add the option to convert bows to guns.
Options aren't always a good thing. Games (and art in general) have to be designed with some level of specificity. The designers for this game chose, very specifically, to have a minimal UI. That's not a shortcoming. That's not a mistake. It's a deliberate choice. You don't need the option for something different. If you don't like a game as designed, then you don't like the game. Period. When did that become a hard thing to accept?----
Murray?2 -
Kalann_Pander✭✭✭Early on, the argument was this : There are many bugs in the game, and I'd prefer the developers not waste time on some optional UI improvements for a fraction of the players, but rather fix those bugs that are annoying a vast majority.
Although some bugs persist, all in all it's much better now. In the long term, I fully support any and all optional enhancements that can enable each of us to play as we want. Early on, the priority had to be fixing the bugs. Now, I believe some resources could be allocated to UI improvements, if there are enough players wanting such stuff to be native in the UI.
Given that third-party addon support over time seems pretty haphazard, ZoS might indeed conclude that coding some of the functions itself could be worthwhile.Edited by Kalann_Pander on August 13, 2014 3:31PMOpinions are like buttholes : Everybody has one, and they usually stink.
3 things to reduce stamina/magicka imbalance :
- Use magicka to block abilities costing magicka, instead of stamina.
- Add % damage reduction to heavy armor.
- Add block penetration to 2H.1 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Really? A transparent straw man argument? Of course grumpy cat and guns are absolutely absurd, unlike functional UI elements. Is that some kind of joke? If not, it might be the most idiotic post I've ever seen on these forums.Edited by jrgray93 on August 13, 2014 3:33PMEP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job1 -
KariTR✭✭✭✭✭
And yet you want them to be hardcoded into the game engine. Do you think that will make them break any less?1 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
And yet you want them to be hardcoded into the game engine. Do you think that will make them break any less?
Ummm. Yes. Very much, very obviously, yes. Tell me about the last time your health bars disappeared after an update and kept popping up with "UI Error."
I seriously can't believe the utter BS arguments that people are coming up with here. You can't argue against options. There is no reasonable, logical position of opposition to take here. If there is, you sure haven't found it yet.Edited by jrgray93 on August 13, 2014 3:37PMEP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Really? A transparent straw man argument? Of course grumpy cat and guns are absolutely absurd, unlike functional UI elements. Is that some kind of joke? If not, it might be the most idiotic post I've ever seen on these forums.
It's not a strawman, it's an slippery-slope argument. And you clearly missed the point.
The options you want are clearly things the designers didn't want. You're asking for fundamental changes to the UI of a game with things that you deem "functional," but others don't. You don't get to define what is functional and/or necessary. You don't like the game as designed? Get addons or find a different game? Games aren't designed by committee.----
Murray?2 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Just because it was designed that way doesn't mean it's ideal. Some of these features have been set as industry standards for years, and a lot of people feel the lack of them is a complete oversight that impairs their enjoyment of the game. For some of us, this feels like playing an FPS game without being able to see the weapon you have equipped.nerevarine1138 wrote: »Really? A transparent straw man argument? Of course grumpy cat and guns are absolutely absurd, unlike functional UI elements. Is that some kind of joke? If not, it might be the most idiotic post I've ever seen on these forums.
It's not a strawman, it's an slippery-slope argument. And you clearly missed the point.
The options you want are clearly things the designers didn't want. You're asking for fundamental changes to the UI of a game with things that you deem "functional," but others don't. You don't get to define what is functional and/or necessary. You don't like the game as designed? Get addons or find a different game? Games aren't designed by committee.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Just because it was designed that way doesn't mean it's ideal. Some of these features have been set as industry standards for years, and a lot of people feel the lack of them is a complete oversight that impairs their enjoyment of the game. For some of us, this feels like playing an FPS game without being able to see the weapon you have equipped.nerevarine1138 wrote: »Really? A transparent straw man argument? Of course grumpy cat and guns are absolutely absurd, unlike functional UI elements. Is that some kind of joke? If not, it might be the most idiotic post I've ever seen on these forums.
It's not a strawman, it's an slippery-slope argument. And you clearly missed the point.
The options you want are clearly things the designers didn't want. You're asking for fundamental changes to the UI of a game with things that you deem "functional," but others don't. You don't get to define what is functional and/or necessary. You don't like the game as designed? Get addons or find a different game? Games aren't designed by committee.
Just because you don't like the design doesn't mean that it needs to be changed. And industry standard does not translate to "good" in most people's books.
I appreciate that you have issues with the design. I have issues with some other games' designs. You know what I do? I don't play those games.----
Murray?1 -
KariTR✭✭✭✭✭But you are able to customise the UI with addons!
Sure, maybe an update when an addon doesn't sync with the latest patch is a day or two coming, but I bet it comes a lot faster than a fix for the in game library, or achievement list, as a couple of examples.
You know what they say; Be careful what you wish for.0 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Just because it was designed that way doesn't mean it's ideal. Some of these features have been set as industry standards for years, and a lot of people feel the lack of them is a complete oversight that impairs their enjoyment of the game. For some of us, this feels like playing an FPS game without being able to see the weapon you have equipped.nerevarine1138 wrote: »Really? A transparent straw man argument? Of course grumpy cat and guns are absolutely absurd, unlike functional UI elements. Is that some kind of joke? If not, it might be the most idiotic post I've ever seen on these forums.
It's not a strawman, it's an slippery-slope argument. And you clearly missed the point.
The options you want are clearly things the designers didn't want. You're asking for fundamental changes to the UI of a game with things that you deem "functional," but others don't. You don't get to define what is functional and/or necessary. You don't like the game as designed? Get addons or find a different game? Games aren't designed by committee.
Just because you don't like the design doesn't mean that it needs to be changed. And industry standard does not translate to "good" in most people's books.
I appreciate that you have issues with the design. I have issues with some other games' designs. You know what I do? I don't play those games.
OPTIONAL. OOOOOOPTIONAAAAAAL. YOU. DO. NOT. HAVE. TO. USE. IT.
We get what we want, you get what you want, and it's a very simple matter of implementation.Edited by jrgray93 on August 13, 2014 3:45PMEP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Just because it was designed that way doesn't mean it's ideal. Some of these features have been set as industry standards for years, and a lot of people feel the lack of them is a complete oversight that impairs their enjoyment of the game. For some of us, this feels like playing an FPS game without being able to see the weapon you have equipped.nerevarine1138 wrote: »Really? A transparent straw man argument? Of course grumpy cat and guns are absolutely absurd, unlike functional UI elements. Is that some kind of joke? If not, it might be the most idiotic post I've ever seen on these forums.
It's not a strawman, it's an slippery-slope argument. And you clearly missed the point.
The options you want are clearly things the designers didn't want. You're asking for fundamental changes to the UI of a game with things that you deem "functional," but others don't. You don't get to define what is functional and/or necessary. You don't like the game as designed? Get addons or find a different game? Games aren't designed by committee.
Just because you don't like the design doesn't mean that it needs to be changed. And industry standard does not translate to "good" in most people's books.
I appreciate that you have issues with the design. I have issues with some other games' designs. You know what I do? I don't play those games.
OPTIONAL. OOOOOOPTIONAAAAAAL. YOU. DO. NOT. HAVE. TO. USE. IT.
We get what we want, you get what you want, and it's a very simple matter of implementation. I'm done here.
Again. The designers don't want the make the UI that way. They don't want to add the option for it. They designed the game the way they wanted to design it. It sucks that it isn't exactly how you like it, but you aren't designing games.----
Murray?1 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Just because it was designed that way doesn't mean it's ideal. Some of these features have been set as industry standards for years, and a lot of people feel the lack of them is a complete oversight that impairs their enjoyment of the game. For some of us, this feels like playing an FPS game without being able to see the weapon you have equipped.nerevarine1138 wrote: »Really? A transparent straw man argument? Of course grumpy cat and guns are absolutely absurd, unlike functional UI elements. Is that some kind of joke? If not, it might be the most idiotic post I've ever seen on these forums.
It's not a strawman, it's an slippery-slope argument. And you clearly missed the point.
The options you want are clearly things the designers didn't want. You're asking for fundamental changes to the UI of a game with things that you deem "functional," but others don't. You don't get to define what is functional and/or necessary. You don't like the game as designed? Get addons or find a different game? Games aren't designed by committee.
Just because you don't like the design doesn't mean that it needs to be changed. And industry standard does not translate to "good" in most people's books.
I appreciate that you have issues with the design. I have issues with some other games' designs. You know what I do? I don't play those games.
OPTIONAL. OOOOOOPTIONAAAAAAL. YOU. DO. NOT. HAVE. TO. USE. IT.
We get what we want, you get what you want, and it's a very simple matter of implementation. I'm done here.
Again. The designers don't want the make the UI that way. They don't want to add the option for it. They designed the game the way they wanted to design it. It sucks that it isn't exactly how you like it, but you aren't designing games.
Oh, did they tell you they aren't interested in putting in optional elements? Or are you just pulling that idea out of nowhere, based on the fact that it wasn't in the game at launch? Seriously, this is like talking to a wall.
The point of this thread isn't to tell the devs how their game should be. It's to tell people who absolutely refuse to entertain an idea that they don't have to participate IF it becomes a reality.Edited by jrgray93 on August 13, 2014 3:47PMEP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Just because it was designed that way doesn't mean it's ideal. Some of these features have been set as industry standards for years, and a lot of people feel the lack of them is a complete oversight that impairs their enjoyment of the game. For some of us, this feels like playing an FPS game without being able to see the weapon you have equipped.nerevarine1138 wrote: »Really? A transparent straw man argument? Of course grumpy cat and guns are absolutely absurd, unlike functional UI elements. Is that some kind of joke? If not, it might be the most idiotic post I've ever seen on these forums.
It's not a strawman, it's an slippery-slope argument. And you clearly missed the point.
The options you want are clearly things the designers didn't want. You're asking for fundamental changes to the UI of a game with things that you deem "functional," but others don't. You don't get to define what is functional and/or necessary. You don't like the game as designed? Get addons or find a different game? Games aren't designed by committee.
Just because you don't like the design doesn't mean that it needs to be changed. And industry standard does not translate to "good" in most people's books.
I appreciate that you have issues with the design. I have issues with some other games' designs. You know what I do? I don't play those games.
OPTIONAL. OOOOOOPTIONAAAAAAL. YOU. DO. NOT. HAVE. TO. USE. IT.
We get what we want, you get what you want, and it's a very simple matter of implementation. I'm done here.
Again. The designers don't want the make the UI that way. They don't want to add the option for it. They designed the game the way they wanted to design it. It sucks that it isn't exactly how you like it, but you aren't designing games.
Oh, did they tell you they aren't interested in putting in optional elements? Or are you just pulling that idea out of nowhere, based on the fact that it wasn't in the game at launch? Seriously, this is like talking to a wall.
Did they put it in the game? No? Then they clearly didn't want it in the game.
This isn't expansion content we're talking about. It's the base UI for the game. It's been designed with a very clear intent and aesthetic. If they wanted it to be different, they would have designed it differently, and no amount of wailing or gnashing of teeth can change that.----
Murray?0 -
KhajitFurTrader✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You can't argue against options. There is no reasonable, logical position of opposition to take here. If there is, you sure haven't found it yet.
Really? You just came here with the expressed intent to post an opinion that you think cannot be argued, nor contradicted? Oh, the nerve of it! I think now I'll have to disagree with everything you've said so far just to take you down a peg or two. To hell with options, I say thusly -- I want bacon.
No one who's reasonable and logical can argue against bacon! (except vegetarians, of course, but they are found lacking in the reasonable department, don't they? Don't they?)
2 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭KhajitFurTrader wrote: »No one who's reasonable and logical can argue against giving you a choice as to whether or not to eat bacon!
Fixed that for you.
EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job1 -
KhajitFurTrader✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭KhajitFurTrader wrote: »No one who's reasonable and logical can argue against giving you a choice as to whether or not to eat bacon!
Fixed that for you.
But not reasonably! :P0 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Okay, okay. I hereby apologize for my hostility in this matter. I don't mean to be unreasonable, but I got a little heated. I love you all. Yes, in that way.
EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job1
