Yeah I hear you, but going from tanking skills and gear to DPS is a major investment. I spent the game developing and refining my tank just to get put on the back burner when I hit VR12. Really a shame.

Oh, don't worry, I fully agree that this is a bad situation. My reply is more or less a jab at the fact that the answer to everything in this game is to put on light armor and a staff. Even tanking is optimal with light armor!

Also, looks like some jerk gave you a "LOL" vote. That's what you get for making a good point! Shame!

jrgray93 wrote: »

Time to put on a dress and grab your stick.

That... that could have sounded better.

No, pretty sure that comment could not have been made any better.

Cyberdown wrote: »

forgetting pvp?

What of it? They aren't really that effective in PVP, save for distractions. The best "tanks" in PVP aren't even tanks. They're just block / animation cancel exploiters who pop Immovable.

Also, if you're suggesting PVP while he waits for groups, not everyone loves PVP as much as some of us do.

It's not just endgame. It's game wide. The way ESO mechanics are setup, there are only two needed roles. DPS and Healer. And even then Healing is 2nd to DPS since everyone has access to some healing.

Physical damage is a very significant minority in the game, so armor rating is an afterthought. Everybody has some significant access to spell resistance or reflect.

So that leaves the game in a state where all you need to focus on is dealing more damage faster than the opponent, with the occasional heal.

This is what you get when a game's mechanics are built around making classes/roles less significant. As the old saying goes... Be careful what you ask for.

This has to be viewed as a major issue at some point. And the remedy is to do the following:

A) Increase heavy armor mitigation cap. This could use another 15-20% flat bonus.

Time to put threat modifiers onto to tanks so that snap-AoE grabs on entire pulls is possible.

C) Provide no room for error on certain bosses where anybody but a heavy-geared sword and board tank will get destroyed.

--Or--

Realize that Trials were poorly executed and avoid making so much content based around DPS races.

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

This has to be viewed as a major issue at some point. And the remedy is to do the following:

A) Increase heavy armor mitigation cap. This could use another 15-20% flat bonus.

Time to put threat modifiers onto to tanks so that snap-AoE grabs on entire pulls is possible.

C) Provide no room for error on certain bosses where anybody but a heavy-geared sword and board tank will get destroyed.

--Or--

Realize that Trials were poorly executed and avoid making so much content based around DPS races.

They will never do this. The team is damn delusional in their design they think they created a cure for cancer. Ive not even seen them remotely acknowledge this as a flaw. There is a section of the community that defends this design. But when questioned in the forums on their view low and behold they are all dps players lol and many are not even in vr nor have they tried a so called tank build.

This is a general problem of the new "action combat" type MMOs. You have to move out of the big telegraphed attacks no matter what role you are and for the rest you don't need a designated tank.

ESO excarbates the issue by making armour class even less relevant than other games and physical damage a rarity.

Basically it's the same story as in GW2: Stacking as much dps as you can get away with is the only way to go. If you attempt anything else, you're just making things much harder on yourself.

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

This is a general problem of the new "action combat" type MMOs. You have to move out of the big telegraphed attacks no matter what role you are and for the rest you don't need a designated tank.

ESO excarbates the issue by making armour class even less relevant than other games and physical damage a rarity.

Basically it's the same story as in GW2: Stacking as much dps as you can get away with is the only way to go. If you attempt anything else, you're just making things much harder on yourself.

Yeah, this really is a symptom of the "Action MMO" game style. People think they can come up with a system that's better than the holy trinity and they always fail. ESO is a lot better than GW2 in this regard, though.

Evandus wrote: »

I suppose the defining factor really is that the OP is speaking of trials. He's ass out on being able to participate on a character he's rolled and played to V12. In his guild even, which is significant.

The only distinction being made here between PvP and Trials is that you can take nearly anything into PvP. Competitive trial groups are rather particular. And many other groups mimic their group composition format. Ergo, a player interested in running trials on a tank is prettymuch out of luck. Or, if part of a guild, in a line with every other sucker who thought building an end game tank was a great idea.

That's what I got out of it. And why I suggested that he swap to a hybrid build as a foundation.

It's not just trials though. Even PvE/PvP content places very little reliance on armor or tanking. Nothing in the game really needs a player to focus on it. None of it.

A full light armor toon, regardless of class, dominates and facerolls.

IMHO, classes and armor effectiveness need to be introduced.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

I suppose the defining factor really is that the OP is speaking of trials. He's ass out on being able to participate on a character he's rolled and played to V12. In his guild even, which is significant.

The only distinction being made here between PvP and Trials is that you can take nearly anything into PvP. Competitive trial groups are rather particular. And many other groups mimic their group composition format. Ergo, a player interested in running trials on a tank is prettymuch out of luck. Or, if part of a guild, in a line with every other sucker who thought building an end game tank was a great idea.

That's what I got out of it. And why I suggested that he swap to a hybrid build as a foundation.

It's not just trials though. Even PvE/PvP content places very little reliance on armor or tanking. Nothing in the game really needs a player to focus on it. None of it.

A full light armor toon, regardless of class, dominates and facerolls.

IMHO, classes and armor effectiveness need to be introduced.

Overall, I agree. To be honest I have been wondering why there hasn't been any further development done for heavy armor users, specifically the tanking role. Doesn't Mr. Sage run a heavy armor 1hand and shield build? Perhaps I'm not recalling that correctly though...

I'm still chuckling in reference to my tank. I've swapped him over to a hybrid build found over at the foundry with some tweaks to enable tanking when needed: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/oblivion-battlemage-pvp-pve-tankdps-op/

So far, I've respecced and chosen new skills. Been levelling them up in Coldharbour with the zombies there. There is a lot of humor to be found in this. I run naked (your armor gets wrecked in no time farming mobs for xp) and have been levelling up the skills I'm missing.

I'm betting now on the 'join them' portion of 'if you can't beat them...'

Evandus wrote: »

Overall, I agree. To be honest I have been wondering why there hasn't been any further development done for heavy armor users, specifically the tanking role. Doesn't Mr. Sage run a heavy armor 1hand and shield build? Perhaps I'm not recalling that correctly though...

I'm still chuckling in reference to my tank. I've swapped him over to a hybrid build found over at the foundry with some tweaks to enable tanking when needed: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/oblivion-battlemage-pvp-pve-tankdps-op/

So far, I've respecced and chosen new skills. Been levelling them up in Coldharbour with the zombies there. There is a lot of humor to be found in this. I run naked (your armor gets wrecked in no time farming mobs for xp) and have been levelling up the skills I'm missing.

I'm betting now on the 'join them' portion of 'if you can't beat them...'

ESO seems to be balanced on what "can be done" not 'what players will do"

So you CAN tank, and content is tankable, but you don't NEED one.

You CAN play without a stick and dress, but people get [snip] at you.

you CAN use STA only builds, but people will get [snip] at you.

The devs think things work because you CAN play it that way, even if nobody will, or won't let anyone else do so.

MMO players are kinda jerks and if something does just 1 more point of damage, everyone will insist everyone else do whatever it is for that 1 more point(forget about the massive imbalances in ESO right now).

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

It's always disappointing to read this. I've been a tank in every game Ive ever played. Im currently 15 and 20 (because I wanted to try a different race to see what difference the race skills made). I've tanked all 3 of the early level dungeons and it seems like I do have a place when fighting the boss mobs...never have much trouble losing aggro at all. if this doesnt change throughout the game, then I'd say everyone is being a bit over the top on there not being any reason to be a tank. Also, I have a healer and I had to work...I couldn't just keep dps'ing and hope everyone stayed alive...I had to heal....maybe I was in bad groups, but it seemed like the Trinity was in effect.

The trials on the other hand, sound like just a good theory, but bad idea...if anyone can chime in on later levels I'd appreciate it. I do like the game, but if Im no use as a tank, I have no use for the game.

that stinks to hear that...might go back to FFXIV. Love this game, but love tanking more

As much as I too hate the OPness of the staff-bearing skirt-lovers..

In a sense of realism, magic-users SHOULD be OP. I would bet money on a wizard over a warrior any day. Why do you think in so many games the tactic is "kill the mages first"?

What this game needs is a way to make the melee dps count for more. Even if the wizard wins 9 days out of 10, when a warrior ever does close the distance before he is scorched/fried/frozen/barbecued/imploded/disintegrated, steel wins.