PvP's Massive Problem: The Unbreakable CC

chimneyswift_ESO · August 2014

It's happened to us all...you get hit with some form of CC and you attempt a CC break with FULL stamina and you just lie there, slowly getting up while taking a pounding from your enemies.

There's no getting around this issue tho, it's really killing PvP for a lot of people. It's killing group PvP as well as 1v1s. This seriously needs to become a bigger, more talked about issue which is why I'm making this post. Discuss.

Illuvatarr · August 2014

It's absolutely ridiculous. NB's and Templars both have abilities where they can permastun you (NB one might be in the duel wield line). It's *** ridiculous and this issue should have been fixed by now.

Kewljag_66_ESO · August 2014

Illuvatarr wrote: »

It's absolutely ridiculous. NB's and Templars both have abilities where they can permastun you (NB one might be in the duel wield line). It's *** ridiculous and this issue should have been fixed by now.

Please tell me what ability the NBs can perma stun with? IF a NB uses Suprise Attack as a successful sneak attack it is a 4.5 sec stun. Other than that the only stuns come from ultimates which can only be used once

chimneyswift_ESO · August 2014

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

It's absolutely ridiculous. NB's and Templars both have abilities where they can permastun you (NB one might be in the duel wield line). It's *** ridiculous and this issue should have been fixed by now.

Please tell me what ability the NBs can perma stun with? IF a NB uses Suprise Attack as a successful sneak attack it is a 4.5 sec stun. Other than that the only stuns come from ultimates which can only be used once

I dont think anyone truly knows...nor do we know if it's JUST Templars and NBs. I've been hit with Crystal Shards before and been unable to get up whith a full stam bar. It has to be something under the hood and within the coding that causes this to happen because it's absolutely insane and seriously needs to be fixed. I hope this thread can help ZOS see how big of a problem this truly is.

CapuchinSeven · August 2014

Illuvatarr wrote: »

It's absolutely ridiculous. NB's and Templars both have abilities where they can permastun you (NB one might be in the duel wield line). It's *** ridiculous and this issue should have been fixed by now.

....so it's in the duel wield line but it's all Nightblades fault... what?

Currently the unbreakable CC is coming from Templar's and Dragon Knights. It MIGHT be possible for Nightblades to do it if they used Ambush at the right moment.

onlinegamer1 · August 2014

Shield Charge (or the Templar version) + Any Root = perma stun

SongOfMyPeople · August 2014

Why make this a class argument? All classes can do this. Can we just agree it's a problem with unbreakable CC and not drag up another argument.

chimneyswift_ESO · August 2014

SongOfMyPeople wrote: »

Why make this a class argument? All classes can do this. Can we just agree it's a problem with unbreakable CC and not drag up another argument.

Exactly, thank you!

Thechemicals · August 2014

Invasion charge can be broken out of.

There is a spell ingame that i believe belongs to NB that can perma stun you. It is veiled strike and happens only when they successfully stealth attack you with it, plus the passive master assassin gives it a total of 8 seconds stunned. Agony may also be the culprit, it is a stun you cant break out of unless you take dmg. I think 1 of the 2 or both may be bugged since that is only supposed to happen to pve monsters.

Id like to find out if this is actually the stun that is doing this because not only is it unbreakable but it can cause an ugly bug where youll be running around sliding on your back and unable to do anything.

Caroloces · August 2014

This is kind of a noob question, but what is the most effective action a player can take to get out of CC? I've hardly done any PVP yet, but I've had enemy NPCs stun me, and I guess I keep pressing any of the WASD keys to try to get out. Is there a more effective way to break free?

Tonnopesce · August 2014

Why i cannot do it!!!!!!!!
i've tiyed si many times to perma cc in cyro but it doesnt work evry time i try my Target always run away....
and come back with backup to kill me...

onlinegamer1 · August 2014

Caroloces wrote: »

This is kind of a noob question, but what is the most effective action a player can take to get out of CC? I've hardly done any PVP yet, but I've had enemy NPCs stun me, and I guess I keep pressing any of the WASD keys to try to get out. Is there a more effective way to break free?

Hit ESCAPE, "Controls" (or whatever the menu is for your Keymapping).

You'll see one called something like "Interrupt". That is your "Break Free".

By default, its Right+Left Mouse at same time, but you can re-map the keybinding if you want.

Caroloces · August 2014

You'll see one called something like "Interrupt". That is your "Break Free".

By default, its Right+Left Mouse at same time, but you can re-map the keybinding if you want.

Oh. Cool! I thought this was only used to shield bash a spell caster. And isn't that - hold RMB, then click LMB?

NerfEverything · August 2014

When are they going to fix this!?! Literally EVERY DK in PvP abuses the hell out of this with unbreakable CCs. It is incredibly frustrating.

NerfEverything · August 2014

Illuvatarr wrote: »

It's absolutely ridiculous. NB's and Templars both have abilities where they can permastun you (NB one might be in the duel wield line). It's *** ridiculous and this issue should have been fixed by now.

NB's have a skill that only works from stealth, so NO, NBs cannot do this. Templars have stuns, but they have no roots, so NO Templars can not do this.

DKs are the primary abusers of this exploit.

c0rp · August 2014

I run into DKs in cyrodiil that use this exploit EVERY time I confront them. Been going on for months now. ZoS is still clueless.

Bloodzeus · August 2014

I have been perma stunned from many templars at the moment, VR12 mainly heavy DK and im stuck there for ? unknown seconds... till dead ..
I did remap interrupt, but using that doesnt seem to help vs Templars... no idea what that is about. Not had trouble with other classes - that I have noticed.

chimneyswift_ESO · August 2014

Guys, I didn't start this thread to rage over classes and their skills...I started it to discuss and bring attention to the overall issue of Unbreakable CC.

firstdecan · August 2014

chimneyswift_ESO wrote: »

Guys, I didn't start this thread to rage over classes and their skills...I started it to discuss and bring attention to the overall issue of Unbreakable CC.

There's a thread hijacking mini game most of the forum users play. They like to see how off topic a thread can get, then start spamming l2p and qq.

I think the exploration of how it happens is potentially useful, but I agree that there's enough threads bashing classes. Unbreakable CC is also an issue, but has someone confirmed that it's server side, and not caused by client lag? Even in PvE, I have occasions where the client lags and I can move, but I can't attack, switch weapons or cast spells. I imagine I would not be able to break CC if it happened during one of those lags as well. (Those lags always seem to jappen in the middle of combat).

And before the rage responders start flaming, I'm only suggesting a possibility. I am not trying to excuse or deny the issue. There is potential that the same effect may have more than one cause.

OrangeTheCat · August 2014

Yeah when that cc hits, I just stand there and give up. There's no point.

Super_Sonico · August 2014

firstdecan wrote: »

Unbreakable CC is also an issue, but has someone confirmed that it's server side, and not caused by client lag? Even in PvE, I have occasions where the client lags and I can move, but I can't attack, switch weapons or cast spells. I imagine I would not be able to break CC if it happened during one of those lags as well. (Those lags always seem to jappen in the middle of combat).

I actually just posted a topic about this. If you get client lag, it should be lagging everything. Having attacks lag but not movement (or anything else) points to it not being a lag issue but a process issue that needs to be fixed. NB had a skill lockout issue they fixed before and I think it's still manifesting in different ways now.

I'll also add that I think there's something wrong with being stunned. I'm now being stunned 100% of the time with no option to avoid it, which makes the above issues all the worse.

WebBull · August 2014

NerfEverything wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

It's absolutely ridiculous. NB's and Templars both have abilities where they can permastun you (NB one might be in the duel wield line). It's *** ridiculous and this issue should have been fixed by now.

NB's have a skill that only works from stealth, so NO, NBs cannot do this. Templars have stuns, but they have no roots, so NO Templars can not do this.

DKs are the primary abusers of this exploit.

It's every class, but mostly Templars and Sorcerers Negate.

LonePirate · August 2014

NerfEverything wrote: »

When are they going to fix this!?! Literally EVERY DK in PvP abuses the hell out of this with unbreakable CCs. It is incredibly frustrating.

I am a DK and I have never used/exploited this tactic - not even once. It is a coward's way to fight and I would rather die 1000 times from not using it than to fight using such a broken and dirty mechanism. Obviously I am one of the very, very few people who believe and act this way.

david.haypreub18_ESO · August 2014

Templars have the charge/knockdown, but what root do we have access to?

chimneyswift_ESO · August 2014

NerfEverything wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

It's absolutely ridiculous. NB's and Templars both have abilities where they can permastun you (NB one might be in the duel wield line). It's *** ridiculous and this issue should have been fixed by now.

NB's have a skill that only works from stealth, so NO, NBs cannot do this. Templars have stuns, but they have no roots, so NO Templars can not do this.

DKs are the primary abusers of this exploit.

I'm not convinced it's really any class' fault. I think this is just a crazy broken game mechanic that needs to be addressed and fixed. I've died countless times with a full stamina bar because I just couldn't break some form of CC.

LunaRae · August 2014

I think a player abusing unbreakable CC has stun locked the devs, they can't help us!

We're all on our own.

Seriously though, this is still happening.

Aeowyn · August 2014

chimneyswift_ESO wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

It's absolutely ridiculous. NB's and Templars both have abilities where they can permastun you (NB one might be in the duel wield line). It's *** ridiculous and this issue should have been fixed by now.

NB's have a skill that only works from stealth, so NO, NBs cannot do this. Templars have stuns, but they have no roots, so NO Templars can not do this.

DKs are the primary abusers of this exploit.

I'm not convinced it's really any class' fault. I think this is just a crazy broken game mechanic that needs to be addressed and fixed. I've died countless times with a full stamina bar because I just couldn't break some form of CC.

Completely agree. Spam immovable, have rapid regen up, and I still will end up standing or kneeling in a stupor while my character is thrashed. Cc break, dodge roll maybe once but end up standing til I'm dead. Incredibly frustrating. I avoid guild pvping events right now because this mechanic is so broken.

Please take a look at this ZOS.

Cyberdown · August 2014

Like in that other thread about pvp people seem to want to blur the lines with general statements...PVP occurs in two forms...small group and massive battles.

What works well in a massive battle and serves a purpose often leads to small encounters that are incredibly frustrating...nerf the skills that cause these issues and massive battles become situations where people continually wail on eachother with no progress, or are just able to pack up and run without one side killing off the other...both scenarios are incredibly unfun...

With CC, its a death sentence if you are not with your group..which might be the point...you will get spam CC'ed, Spam nuked, ect....that's how it should be though...there shouldn't be Rambo opportunities for a jacked up player to run in, kill a bunch of people, then run off scott free, because that scenario can be exploited by many people, and will be...and it will turn into another problem once most people do this...

Same thing with the current insane high damage skills that one shot you, or nearly one shot you. Awful when you and three friends are hitting shards and come across a couple enemies...but realistically the only things that drop people covered by a lot of heals in massive battles.

Ive often though there should be some mechanic in play that takes into account how many heals are hitting you, how many CC's are hitting you, and generally speaking how many players friendly and enemy are near you...I don't claim to have an answer here.

Like a lot of games...youll get tons of complaints out of people who do small scale pvp, or roam solo, regarding skills being OP...and in their situation it is...but in the larger battles perhaps they are the only skills that work as intended....not simply as cut and dry as something is OP or not. I feel CC is the same way. Considering the cleanses, stamina related CC breaking and heals that can come into play.

Selodaoc · August 2014

Its mainly skills that do knockdowns that you cant break free from.
Nightblades dont have knockdowns so they cant do it.

The animation for standing back up is also so extremly long so its basicly a 5-6 second disable from knockdown to where your standing up again.

A DK can rush you, knock you down, use talon ontop of it, and you get perma knockdowned. You cant break free of it.

Knockdown>>>>any stunn.

There arent any cc immunity against talon and knockdowns either.
Even if they say they fixed it so you cant get chain taloned, you still can and theres been alot of raging about it on teamspeak between me and my PvP friends.
I go from 100%-0% stamina just tryng to break free from DK and Templar CC, then i die.

TheBull · August 2014

Thechemicals wrote: »

Invasion charge can be broken out of.

There is a spell ingame that i believe belongs to NB that can perma stun you. It is veiled strike and happens only when they successfully stealth attack you with it, plus the passive master assassin gives it a total of 8 seconds stunned. Agony may also be the culprit, it is a stun you cant break out of unless you take dmg. I think 1 of the 2 or both may be bugged since that is only supposed to happen to pve monsters.

Id like to find out if this is actually the stun that is doing this because not only is it unbreakable but it can cause an ugly bug where youll be running around sliding on your back and unable to do anything.

I wish man... They don't stack... Agony is the dumbest spell. If you hold block the NB will do the cast motion, but it wont cast. If you a knocked down, it wont cast. If you are on horse, no cast.

Soulshine · August 2014

Having not tried any PvP yet, I have no clue how the skill works in Cyrodill, but I can say that the ability to permanently lock down a mob in PvE until he's dead was something I discovered by accident once when trying to get a dungeon boss down solo. Blazing Spear has a 2 second stun which will reapply if you recast the spell. It's possible to effectively prevent a single mob from even moving let alone casting any skills at you by spamming this skill - something which really should not be possible. If ppl are using this in PvP I can see where someone is going to be unable to move if it works in the same way, as there is no CD or any way for immunity to set in after it is cast. The only thing limiting the duration of the stun is the Templar's magicka pool in his/her ability to keep recasting the skill. That is a perma lock in my book and it should not be possible - in PvP or PvE.