martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

So I admit that I am a supporter of a global AH.

Ok so I finally found some guild kiosks.

I had to put in the search for what I was looking for 3 separate times and none of them had it.

So now I have to skip all over Tamriel, find the kiosks and do the search each time, making a mental note of who has what until I find the best deal?

People really think this is better than a global AH?

Just to find a vet12 ring with stamina at the best price.

Really?

There should be a system where you can search for an item and it tells where the vendor is. I don't mind that they make you do the footwork to buy it but there is no reason why you should have to run around to find it.

The first round of kiosks was just a first come first served allocation. A lot of really good trade guilds got left out for this reason. Improved quality is expected when the best trade guilds have had a chance to get a merchant.

martin, have you ever joined a MMO years after launch?

To say that "Every other decent MMO has an AH and the economy works just fine." is an absolute joke. The most desired items are priced according to the coin purses of long-standing subscribers, the new player has absolutely no where to go.

In my last game, the most gold I had after 12 months was around 2 million. One black dye cost 6 million.

I'm very much enjoying Kiosks. I like how certain areas are lumped together more, and others are spread out.

I would love to see the current system get improved, yes. Faster response time for searches and screen changes. By-item lookup with auto-fill suggestions. Better emails describing what was sold, to what guild, for how much, and even to whom. Even more detail in item breakdowns.

An amazing idea someone else mentioned, would be to keep the current kiosks, but allow you to pay a courier to 'search' for you to find an item that may be located in another kiosk, with directions to where it is and how much they want (not buying it remotely). Keep it in the world (no universal store), but also provide players like the op the ability to find a specific item quickly.

I would also like to see new skills/functions added. I would like to be able to sell more items. I would like to be able to search all the guilds I'm currently in simultaneously.

This goes with other guild improvements, like the ability to buy/expand your personal and even the guild bank with more tabs and slots (for organization and security, as is similar). Or the ability to add guild tabards to horses. Or even the capability to invest in guild houses in the world similar to how kiosks have been setuip (as the first stage to housing).

Meanwhile I am having a lot of fun with the kiosks and have been selling some of my excess crafting materials.

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm very much enjoying Kiosks. I like how certain areas are lumped together more, and others are spread out.

I would love to see the current system get improved, yes. Faster response time for searches and screen changes. By-item lookup with auto-fill suggestions. Better emails describing what was sold, to what guild, for how much, and even to whom. Even more detail in item breakdowns.

An amazing idea someone else mentioned, would be to keep the current kiosks, but allow you to pay a courier to 'search' for you to find an item that may be located in another kiosk, with directions to where it is and how much they want (not buying it remotely). Keep it in the world (no universal store), but also provide players like the op the ability to find a specific item quickly.

I would also like to see new skills/functions added. I would like to be able to sell more items. I would like to be able to search all the guilds I'm currently in simultaneously.

This goes with other guild improvements, like the ability to buy/expand your personal and even the guild bank with more tabs and slots (for organization and security, as is similar). Or the ability to add guild tabards to horses. Or even the capability to invest in guild houses in the world similar to how kiosks have been setuip (as the first stage to housing).

All these complex and timely systems when actually an AH would just do the same but properly.

I hear that sales in my main trading guild spiked after opening a kiosk, so I have to say it's working quite nicely.

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm very much enjoying Kiosks. I like how certain areas are lumped together more, and others are spread out.

I would love to see the current system get improved, yes. Faster response time for searches and screen changes. By-item lookup with auto-fill suggestions. Better emails describing what was sold, to what guild, for how much, and even to whom. Even more detail in item breakdowns.

An amazing idea someone else mentioned, would be to keep the current kiosks, but allow you to pay a courier to 'search' for you to find an item that may be located in another kiosk, with directions to where it is and how much they want (not buying it remotely). Keep it in the world (no universal store), but also provide players like the op the ability to find a specific item quickly.

I would also like to see new skills/functions added. I would like to be able to sell more items. I would like to be able to search all the guilds I'm currently in simultaneously.

This goes with other guild improvements, like the ability to buy/expand your personal and even the guild bank with more tabs and slots (for organization and security, as is similar). Or the ability to add guild tabards to horses. Or even the capability to invest in guild houses in the world similar to how kiosks have been setuip (as the first stage to housing).

All these complex and timely systems when actually an AH would just do the same but properly.

Disagree. An auction house, as has been demonstrated repeatedly in game after game, will actually encourage botting (penny bids, which are professionally designed software for realworld markets that have been converted to gaming) and bottom-dollar trading.

Dynamic trade is developed with separation in markets, NOT a universal market. Amazon and Ebay are demonstrations, not of dynamic markets, but of stationary designs who's main goal and intent is power for the buyer, NOT the seller.

This is basic economics. The larger and more regulated the economic system, the more stagnant it becomes by design. Macro economics are stationary and predictable. MMO's such as WoW have demonstrated this for years.

On the other end, if you want a really diverse and thriving economy, you go the complete opposite with EvE Online and it's variety of micro-systems which are separated so many different ways (multiple segregated and independent markets, resource distinction, diversity in loot, even storyline events which disrupt common services and raise value artificially ... not to mention the focus on over 95% of all products being ENTIRELY player made, meaning no artificial seeding or loot distribution). And in EvE, it's the SELLER who usually benefits the most, not the buyer, at least if the seller is smart and knows the target consumer.

ESO is a medium between the two distinctions, giving both seller and buyer an even chance. It lacks much of the 'I'm too lazy to want to do anything' that WoW offers players, and most games on the market, without pandering to the 'I'd rather look at spredsheets and data tables to penny every dime' that EvE offers.

So, yeah, all those complex systems, to counter the basic idiotic nature of modern popular culture, which prizes ease of access and use (laziness) over innovation and complexity (work). Cause you know, auction houses stand on the same plane as reality television.

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

KariTR wrote: »

martin, have you ever joined a MMO years after launch?

To say that "Every other decent MMO has an AH and the economy works just fine." is an absolute joke. The most desired items are priced according to the coin purses of long-standing subscribers, the new player has absolutely no where to go.

In my last game, the most gold I had after 12 months was around 2 million. One black dye cost 6 million.

I played lotro 7 years and the type of inflation you mention never happened on my server.

Actually the Lotro AH was a pleasure to use and play. The only inflation of the type you mention was always post expansion for crafting and progression items for a limited time. sub-cap items never had that level of inflation.

The problem we have here is if you join years after launch how the hell are you going to get into a trade guild. Also what is stopping the type of vet inflation you mention with the current system?

In fact will it not be worse in that established trade guilds will be populated by only longstanding players?

Attrition in MMOs is quite high. The trade guild I am in is very active and well-run, but we still kick between 4-9 'inactives' a day and replace them with new members. Five hundred is such a large number (plus 'megaserver' so no caps on amount of players able to log in simultaneously), I can't see obtaining a spot in a trade guild ever being an issue.

But the real difference between this game and the one with the black dye, is that time is the real currency, not gold. Given time, I will have that black dye via an achievement, given time I will be able to craft my characters the sets they desire, given time my horse(s) will be at max level etc.

Everything we want in game is there as a drop or can be crafted. Nothing is prohibited artificially, so only a minority can sell at inflated prices. Low level resources have as much chance of returning sought after improvement materials as high level resources, which means new players can join that particular market on equal terms to those who have played forever.

It's also, in my opinion, healthy to have a few really rare items in a game that money generally can't buy. At the moment, my family of characters are on a quest to find all the parts to the Draugr's Heritage set. It gives me a roleplay purpose more than anything (the items I have at the moment going all the way from iL37 to Vet rank). An auction house would completely destroy the mystery of this set and reduce it to mundane, who has the most coin.

One only has to look at the stability of the prices in the five months the game has been live to see that the economy is thriving and healthy; inflation is not happening. Sure, you may have to make a few more clicks than you like in order to make a purchase (something I am sure that will be smoothed out over time), but at least you aren't going to be priced out of the market any time soon.

Well I just spent some time looking through several kiosks in Wayrest .. I don't have the freakin time to write down who has the best price on stuff I am lookin for .. nor the memory to remember who has what at what price (hence the need to write it down) ... compare them then go back to the one that has the best price...

Having to do price comparisons ( traveling around different shops, if the shops don't have flyers or online site to check out ) in real life is one thing but having to do it in a game when the time one has to play said game is limited is just ridiculous ... I am not a lazy person just do not have the time to search for the guild that has the best prices.... so will probably just keep doing what I have been....

One central AH (for each faction) would be far less time consuming... yes it does have it's problems but in an MMO (GAME) where the time one has is so precious ...

Can't you just take the kiosk sysem for what it is? It's an improvement, however slight, to the current guild store system.

Honestly, the time for complaining about no AH has been settled and discussed in various other threads.

So you can't find that very specific item that you want? That's nothing new. The kiosk system is to help provide a wider buyer base. It is not meant to allow players to find whatever they want easily.

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

FlyingPenguin wrote: »

Yes Adding a AH would kill this market making every thing worth well nothing.
Then we would have people complaining gold is to hard to get , or I cant make anything off my items cause people are underselling me.
You have to look at the real outcome of adding or removing something the good and bad.
AH would make searching through all guilds and items faster.
But kill market.
End result FAIL.

Kiosk makes finding stuff a little bit harder but just kill along the way or quest till u get to that area.
Keeps market healthy.
End result Succeed

There is no economic theory in your point whatsoever just pure supposition.

Transparent competition does not kill a market, in fact it makes it thrive. People will not automatically always undercut each other, prices balance according to supply and demand.

Keeps market healthy - how so? you cannot see what is available and it takes as much time as you are prepared to put in to finds stuff.

To make a general statement that an AH will kill the economy is just plain wrong. Every other decent MMO has an AH and the economy works just fine.

What we have is a disparate, closed,inefficient market, that takes time and doesn't give people a clear view of what is available. It also involves travel time and endless searches. This is not just about market forces it is about how much time people have to play. I literally spent over an hour finding my ring I talked about in the OP.

Also for the guy that said he made millions - good for you, it still dosen't make this system user friendly or the best it could be.

You can't compare one games economy to another.
You just can't as no two game economies are the same.
As of now the economy is fine why chance it?
Idk it's my opinion we all havem:)
Personally I don't see the point in chancing something that is fine to make it slightly more easier to those who want to rush the game and get to point a and b as fast as possible.

babylon wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I am not opposed to the Auction House as much as I am opposed to the Global part of it. Stuff for sale or auction in Auridon should not also be for sale or auction in Grahtwood at the same time.

Why not? We deposit items in one bank and withdraw them halfway across the world without giving it a second thought.

Who says that people don't give it a second thought? That is already in the game, though. As are guild traders, by the way.

But, since I have my soapbox...snip

Um, I didn't write that. You quoted the wrong person

This is what I wrote

babylon wrote: »

I expect the guild kiosks to be very goldfarmer-friendly. Those guys will be able to outbid everyone for a start.

Interestingly, noticed the guild trader system being promoted on a goldseller website, when I did a google to try locate a map with the guild trader locations.

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=eso+guild+trader+locations&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=VpJ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=BpblU86wI8_g8AWauoDQBw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1139&bih=522

This is so ironic bearing in mind all the naysayer ant-AH folk that cry gold seller.

TBH I've already stopped viditing kiosks all that searching is irksome.

I traveled to several zones and visited all the kiosks, once.

Haven't been back to any of them since, don't plan on it, won't buy from them, and I am in protest.

I deplore this system. Don't particularly care if no one agrees with me either. Just voicing my opinion.

I'd rather stab my eyes out with ice picks then endorse this system.

Please give us an auction house.