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Guild Heraldry for small guilds.
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Canstaht✭✭✭"Not only that, It's pretty clear that Zenimax wants and encourages people to group up and form these communities, that is one of the reasons why ESO exists, to allow people who love the franchise to team up and play the game together."
Yes, ESO exists to allow people who love the franchise to team up and play the game together. A group, consists of Four people. If said Four people want to form a Guild, and pvp/do dungeons together. Then, They are a group, and a guild and by all means, they are teaming up to play the game together. So all of those boxes are checked. So why can't small guilds also have a tabard, just because the guild is smaller, doesn't mean it is any less a guild, or any less a group of people, playing the game together.
The fact there is adventure zone content, and dungeons for Four players, at all, shows they want to cater to small team dynamics. If pretty much all the content I want to do, only requires me to have a close knit guild of 4-6 people, then, why should we not have a tabard? sure we might grow, we might get more members, eventually and over time. But to say that a small guild doesn't get a tabard seems to be an oversight to me.1 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭This "I pay for the game I should get everything" attitude drives me nuts. This is not a valid argument.
There are requirements you must meet for many things in the game. You don't get everything for 15$ unless you also work for it and meet the requirements.
You might have a valid argument that lesser guilds should get tabards, but saying it is because you pay a sub is not valid.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.2 -
Canstaht✭✭✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »This "I pay for the game I should get everything" attitude drives me nuts. This is not a valid argument.
There are requirements you must meet for many things in the game. You don't get everything for 15$ unless you also work for it and meet the requirements.
You might have a valid argument that lesser guilds should get tabards, but saying it is because you pay a sub is not valid.
I don't think I should get everything. But I can respect that point bothers you. I agree arguing it on the merit of a smaller guild being able to have a tabard alone is probably the wiser course of action. So I will try to do that moving forward.
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Iorail✭✭✭✭Yes, ESO exists to allow people who love the franchise to team up and play the game together. A group, consists of Four people. If said Four people want to form a Guild, and pvp/do dungeons together. Then, They are a group, and a guild and by all means, they are teaming up to play the game together. So all of those boxes are checked. So why can't small guilds also have a tabard, just because the guild is smaller, doesn't mean it is any less a guild, or any less a group of people, playing the game together.
The fact there is adventure zone content, and dungeons for Four players, at all, shows they want to cater to small team dynamics. If pretty much all the content I want to do, only requires me to have a close knit guild of 4-6 people, then, why should we not have a tabard? sure we might grow, we might get more members, eventually and over time. But to say that a small guild doesn't get a tabard seems to be an oversight to me.
Using your own argument, then people with 4 man "guilds" not only should have access to tabards (intended for 10+ guilds) but also should be able to 4 man Trials, just because they are part of the game.....
A four man "guild" is not a guild and instead of caving in to cater to this small group of people that believe they are entitle to everything just because the pay for the game sub, how about they seal the coffin by simply making it so that you actually need 10 people to even form a guild?
See my argument is as valid as yours. A group of people is not a guild, it's a group, just because you can form a guild with 1 or 4, doesn't entitle you to have all the guild perks. The perks come with numbers and only until you, and the hand full of people arguing to the contrary, come to realize this, there is no argument.
Today they give tabards to 1 man guilds, then tomorrow, access to the bank to 4 man guilds, then next week, store access to 10 man guilds, so tell me, when is this going to stop? Never, because people will never stop asking for more when they don't even want to do the basics steps to get what they ask without even putting up the effort. You and other want Tabards? Join a guild that have them or make your own guild and recruit 10+ people, it's really that simple....0 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Don't the time trials in Craglorn require 12 people to run? (And I don't mean by difficulty, but by the fact that there are points where you need 12 bodies to be allowed to progress.) If 10 people is too hard to gather, you'll never be able run the trials, which include parts of Craglorn's story, or get the loot that comes from them. But just because I may be a solo player doesn't mean ZOS is blocking me from content I paid for. That would be stretch to claim, let alone to post several bold paragraphs about it being against the law, or what ever it is that is being asserted in this thread. There needs to be content that is designed around forming groups, and we all have the same opportunity to experience it. If you refuse to participate in larger groups, that is your choice of course.
Personally I think that, the number needed to run a trial, should be the minimum for guild features to start opening up. 10 is already pretty small. But if they wanted to allow just the tabard for the four man group level, I don't have any objection to that.Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
Navuri✭✭✭Hello everyone. Just a friendly reminder to remain constructive when discussing the thread topic. You do not have to agree with everyone else, but please present your opinion without resorting to personal comments. Thank you.
That's all? No "we're going to fix this problem as soon as possible"? What's the idea behind denying small groups of people the guild heraldry? Zenimax is killing smaller guilds with these worthless restrictions. I have no intention whatsoever to expand my guild of 7/8 friends and neither do they. We don't have a guild bank, we don't have a guild store, and now we don't get even get the option to a completely cosmetic feature in the game.
Let us have fun with the tabard and form a small team which can stand out.
Again, for the third time: Guild heraldry for everyone.
I'll quote from the homepage:
"Guilds have good reasons to be excited about the update, too. Guild leaders can now create custom guild ranks and design their own guild tabard. There are tons of icons, colors, and tabard shapes available, so pick your favorites and put your guild’s identity on display.
We hope you enjoy the update, and we can’t wait to see what you think. See you in Tamriel!"
But wait, there's a catch! Only for guilds with 10 or more players! Getting the idea?Edited by Navuri on August 9, 2014 6:39AM1 -
Navuri✭✭✭A four man "guild" is not a guild and instead of caving in to cater to this small group of people that believe they are entitle to everything just because the pay for the game sub, how about they seal the coffin by simply making it so that you actually need 10 people to even form a guild?
Nonsense. If a guild has 200 members and only 16 of them are active players, why should they have access to a guild store and a guild of 49 players with 30 active players not?
You can cut it anyway you like, but having a restriction on a cosmetic functionality in the game is not good for small guilds. And who are you to decide whether or not me and my friends are a guild or not? Does the dictionary of the world say that 10 people are the minimum for a guild? There is a reason why Zenimax has implemented the 5 guild functionality, which is why there are small guilds as well. And I want a tabard for my small guild. Not some random 500 trading guild tabard I couldn't care less about. I want me and my friends to have our own tabard.0 -
Canstaht✭✭✭
A guild, as I've pointed out repeatedly is simply and exactly defined as "A group" of people, that share a similar interest, or pursuit. There is no set number requirement. A group is a group, no matter how big, or small. As such, if a group wishes to be a guild, and call themselves a guild. They are a guild. You don't have to like it, but it's that simple.
You can try and invent new definitions of the word, if you like but there is nowhere that it is specified in any dictionary that "a guild isn't a guild without 10+ people."
It was a developer choice by ZOS, I made my post to express my opinion and give feedback. Again, and again the "oh well then you'll just want everything spoon fed to you, where does it end? free legends etc..etc" which is really not on topic. Small guilds, and clearly I'm not alone on this. Would like to be able to have a tabard. We may be a smaller number of the community. But we are a part of the community. And to entirely disregard a part of the community, for any reason. Is pretty unfair. The request for a tabard, for a small guild. Is neither game breaking or effecting anyone else. It detracts nothing, it only provides more benefit to a number of people who a bereft, of said benefit and wish to have it.Edited by Canstaht on August 9, 2014 6:57AM1 -
Canstaht✭✭✭driosketch wrote: »Don't the time trials in Craglorn require 12 people to run? (And I don't mean by difficulty, but by the fact that there are points where you need 12 bodies to be allowed to progress.) If 10 people is too hard to gather, you'll never be able run the trials, which include parts of Craglorn's story, or get the loot that comes from them. But just because I may be a solo player doesn't mean ZOS is blocking me from content I paid for. That would be stretch to claim, let alone to post several bold paragraphs about it being against the law, or what ever it is that is being asserted in this thread. There needs to be content that is designed around forming groups, and we all have the same opportunity to experience it. If you refuse to participate in larger groups, that is your choice of course.
Personally I think that, the number needed to run a trial, should be the minimum for guild features to start opening up. 10 is already pretty small. But if they wanted to allow just the tabard for the four man group level, I don't have any objection to that.
What Craglorn requires, should not be a defining hallmark to hold all other players of the game to. If I want to live in Cyrodiil, and only do quests for skill points, and otherwise pvp, with a small guild. That's a valid method of playing the game. We want a tabard to distinguish ourselves. I never said anything about lawful or otherwise. I think that was somewhat derailing to the thread really. And as it was pointed out that the sub might not be the best foot to stand on for the argument of having a tabard for a small guild. I agree there should be content around forming groups and incentive for larger groups. I don't however agree that a tabard is one of those things that should be left behind a limitation of the guild member numbers. To base everything on trials, for the entire populace of the game, when there is a fair margin that might not care too much about PvE, and prefers AvA, for their reason to play the game. Is a little one sided, for a community that relishes multiple styles of play. In a game, that's supposed to be somewhat open ended and welcoming to players, wanting to enjoy the ESO experience as they choose to.0 -
KariTR✭✭✭✭✭Fortunately, most of us see sense otherwise ZOS might need to change the guild startup system and I hate to see dev time wasted.
The ability to begin the process of forming a guild at only one member appears to have confused some members into believing they have a guild when they don't.
Under 10 members and all you have is a reserved name for your potential guild. If you don't intend to grow that guild then a reserved name is all you will have.3 -
Canstaht✭✭✭Yes, ESO exists to allow people who love the franchise to team up and play the game together. A group, consists of Four people. If said Four people want to form a Guild, and pvp/do dungeons together. Then, They are a group, and a guild and by all means, they are teaming up to play the game together. So all of those boxes are checked. So why can't small guilds also have a tabard, just because the guild is smaller, doesn't mean it is any less a guild, or any less a group of people, playing the game together.
The fact there is adventure zone content, and dungeons for Four players, at all, shows they want to cater to small team dynamics. If pretty much all the content I want to do, only requires me to have a close knit guild of 4-6 people, then, why should we not have a tabard? sure we might grow, we might get more members, eventually and over time. But to say that a small guild doesn't get a tabard seems to be an oversight to me.
Using your own argument, then people with 4 man "guilds" not only should have access to tabards (intended for 10+ guilds) but also should be able to 4 man Trials, just because they are part of the game.....
A four man "guild" is not a guild and instead of caving in to cater to this small group of people that believe they are entitle to everything just because the pay for the game sub, how about they seal the coffin by simply making it so that you actually need 10 people to even form a guild?
See my argument is as valid as yours. A group of people is not a guild, it's a group, just because you can form a guild with 1 or 4, doesn't entitle you to have all the guild perks. The perks come with numbers and only until you, and the hand full of people arguing to the contrary, come to realize this, there is no argument.
Today they give tabards to 1 man guilds, then tomorrow, access to the bank to 4 man guilds, then next week, store access to 10 man guilds, so tell me, when is this going to stop? Never, because people will never stop asking for more when they don't even want to do the basics steps to get what they ask without even putting up the effort. You and other want Tabards? Join a guild that have them or make your own guild and recruit 10+ people, it's really that simple....
We're not talking about banks and stores. This is about tabards, it's not about free levels, it's not about free gear, it's about tabards. Just tabards. Joining a bigger guild, is not a solution to wanting My guild, to be able to have a tabard. It provides no remedy to the topic. Why must you lambast small guilds so ? simply for wanting a tabard, I have been met with so much outcry for what? Why does it take so much away from the game, for a fellow player to have a simple want fulfilled? This is supposedly a community, of gamers really when it all comes down to it. We may not all like eachother and we may not all get along. Everybody has their own reasons for playing and their own goals in game. But to just staunchly tread all over someone for wanting something So basic, and So simple. That effects not one iota the gameplay experience for you, or anyone else. But tremendously impacts the experience for others. It is something that would make some of us happy. Small guilds are people too, we're players, just the same as everyone else.
While there are some incentives that larger guilds should enjoy, and they do, banks and stores. Tabards, in my opinion should not be among those limit restricted incentives.
You are entitled to your opinion and if you disagree, great. But don't tell me my guild isn't a guild, and don't say there is no argument or that there is no merit to any of this. There is an argument, I've presented one.2 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I almost tagged you to separate because you keep jumping to defend yourself against counter arguments made to another poster.I never said anything about lawful or otherwise. I think that was somewhat derailing to the thread really. And as it was pointed out that the sub might not be the best foot to stand on for the argument of having a tabard for a small guild.
Just so we are clear, with just what you're asking for, while not something I would push for, I don't find your request wholly unreasonable.Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
Canstaht✭✭✭Fortunately, most of us see sense otherwise ZOS might need to change the guild startup system and I hate to see dev time wasted.
The ability to begin the process of forming a guild at only one member appears to have confused some members into believing they have a guild when they don't.
Under 10 members and all you have is a reserved name for your potential guild. If you don't intend to grow that guild then a reserved name is all you will have.
That is your opinion, and you are welcome to it. It doesn't change the presented argument. How a guild is defined may not change in game. Ultimately ZOS will do what ZOS chooses. Change will not occur without any feedback, and that is the purpose of this discussion. 'Sense' is subjective. As I see plenty of sense in allowing small guilds to have a tabard. I am not alone in that opinion, either.
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Canstaht✭✭✭driosketch wrote: »
I almost tagged you to separate because you keep jumping to defend yourself against counter arguments made to another poster.I never said anything about lawful or otherwise. I think that was somewhat derailing to the thread really. And as it was pointed out that the sub might not be the best foot to stand on for the argument of having a tabard for a small guild.
Just so we are clear, with just what you're asking for, while not something I would push for, I don't find your request wholly unreasonable.
I appreciate that, thank you.
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zgrssd✭✭✭✭
If it is less then 10 man, it is not a public guild to begin with. It's a private guild where only select few are allowed. As such it does not serve the purpose Guilds server in the game (community hubs; centers of Trade, PvE, PvP or RP activity).Dear Zenimax, why do you punish small guilds? No guild bank for guilds under 10 members, alright. I don't agree with it, but I'm over it. However, to deny a small guild the ability to make and have a heraldry and tabard, is pretty much against the core principle of freedom to play the way you want that Elder scrolls is known for. I petition for the member requirement for guild heraldry be removed. I see no possible reason to prevent smaller guilds from having it, it doesn't effect game play mechanics or abuse anything.
I would like an explanation for this, truly.
You only made it to have a elitarian club and a overview who of your close friends is online.
As did I. I have a 3 person guild with no admission for people that don't belong to my computerclub in real life (not many play ESO right now).
I find the limit to "no guild bank" and "no heraldy" absolutely fair and acceptable. If I do not even inlude a lousy 10 players, my guild is hardly worth the space a guild bank or heradry would need on the server.Elana Peterson (EU), Dominion, Imperial Sorc, Rune & Alchemy Crafting Char
Leonida Peterson (EU), Daggerfall, Kajiit Nightblade, Tank & main Crafter
Kurga Peterson (EU), Ebonhart, Ork Dragonknight, Provision Mule
Coldblood Peterson (EU) Argonian Templer, Daggerfall, Healer
Incendia Peterson (EU), Dominion, Dunmer Dragonknight, fire DPS & healer
Haldor Belendor (EU), Ebonhart, Breton Sorcerer, Tank
Fuliminictus Peterson (EU), Ebonhart, Altmer Sorcerer, Electric DPS
Me babbling about PvE roles and Armor, Short Guide to Addon Programming (for Programmers)
If you think anything I or somebody else said violates the Rules of this Forum, you are free to flag my posts. Till I get any notifcaion from this, I just asume you know you have no case against me or Zenimax disagrees with you.0 -
KariTR✭✭✭✭✭Fortunately, most of us see sense otherwise ZOS might need to change the guild startup system and I hate to see dev time wasted.
The ability to begin the process of forming a guild at only one member appears to have confused some members into believing they have a guild when they don't.
Under 10 members and all you have is a reserved name for your potential guild. If you don't intend to grow that guild then a reserved name is all you will have.
That is your opinion, and you are welcome to it. It doesn't change the presented argument. How a guild is defined may not change in game. Ultimately ZOS will do what ZOS chooses. Change will not occur without any feedback, and that is the purpose of this discussion. 'Sense' is subjective. As I see plenty of sense in allowing small guilds to have a tabard. I am not alone in that opinion, either.
How is this opinion:
"Under 10 members and all you have is a reserved name for your potential guild. If you don't intend to grow that guild then a reserved name is all you will have."
Is it not a fact? or do you have any guild perks I am not aware of?
[snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 8, 2023 6:11PM0 -
KleanZlate✭✭✭Malpherian wrote: »vestmanneb17_ESO wrote: »Malpherian wrote: »I see a lot for you giving the reason for such restrictions as to limit the number of 1 man guilds.
Let me remind you that every single player "PAYS" a monthly sub for this game. If it was free to play, I might agree with the restrictions. But it isn't.
A paying customer should have access and the right to do anything anyone else can do. So if a 1 man guild wants a bank, or just a tabard, they are paying for the right to have it.
Any type of restriction concerning "Guilds" which locks a paying customer out of the ability to have as well is a horrible idea.
NO OTHER GAME DOES THIS WITH GUILDS.
2nd, Why does Zennimax care if there are a bunch of 1 man guilds? Is their server so *** it can't handle the load? Because if that's the case the game is a lot more *** up then we've been lead to believe.
Just answer me this: What is stopping you from joining a guild and buying a tabard?
Nothing, But that's not the point, that tabard would not be "My Guilds" tabard. it would be the "Other Guild 's Tabard". Which is the point.
Ah so you can actually obtain a tabard but it's just not the tabard that you want. That's your personal choice then so don't try that "I pay, I'm entitled" crap.0 -
KleanZlate✭✭✭vestmanneb17_ESO wrote: »Malpherian wrote: »I see a lot for you giving the reason for such restrictions as to limit the number of 1 man guilds.
Let me remind you that every single player "PAYS" a monthly sub for this game. If it was free to play, I might agree with the restrictions. But it isn't.
A paying customer should have access and the right to do anything anyone else can do. So if a 1 man guild wants a bank, or just a tabard, they are paying for the right to have it.
Any type of restriction concerning "Guilds" which locks a paying customer out of the ability to have as well is a horrible idea.
NO OTHER GAME DOES THIS WITH GUILDS.
2nd, Why does Zennimax care if there are a bunch of 1 man guilds? Is their server so *** it can't handle the load? Because if that's the case the game is a lot more *** up then we've been lead to believe.
Just answer me this: What is stopping you from joining a guild and buying a tabard?
I have expressly stated I don't wish to join a large guild. I also don't see any reason why I should be forced to join a large guild, when I am happy with the small guild I have, and the people I enjoy playing with.
Just answer me this: What is stopping you from accepting another playstyle from your own. Why do you insist that everyone needs to meet some preordained large guild demand to have a tabard. Admittedly, 10 is not a overly large number. But when you only have 4-6 friends who play actively, and don't want to just invite random people into a guild for the sake of a requirement. I don't understand the marked aggression towards smaller guilds. No one is taking anything away from you or anyone else. It's hardly a large scale achievement or objective in reaching 10 members, the argument is this - Why is it limited to 10 members at all. Why are people allowed to make guilds, and then not allowed to have any features of a guild unless they have 10 members. It's really simple.
It's not asking for any game breaking changes, or detracting from anyone else. It doesn't ruin the game, to let small guilds have a tabard. So why not? really why not? some have stated they feel it makes the distinction less special. But how is it so special currently? As so many people have said it's easy to join a large guild or recruit random people. Why should we have to. Certain features of a game should be default that is my contention. I believe a tabard falls into that default category.
Again, we pretty much agree on things. You answered a question I was directing to another person and it had nothing to do with smaller groups but the "I pay, I'm entitled" crap that I hate. I have nothing against smaller groups getting a tabard although I would suggest maybe getting a different style of tabards. Just an idea.0 -
Navuri✭✭✭'edited my whole comment'
Why would anyone actually be against small guilds having a guild tabard?Edited by Navuri on August 9, 2014 10:55AM2 -
KariTR✭✭✭✭✭You have no guild perks outside of a reserved name.
How is that 'opinion' and not fact?And now we're on the subject: why is it that you can't stand small guilds with tabards?
Don't confuse someone not taking a strong stance in support of something to mean they are against it - or in your words "can't stand it".
As it is, small guilds can have tabards. 10 members is minute when you consider that the upper limit is 500. Don't act as if you have all been barred from content because ZOS has made the condition to have a tabard prohibitive, when it is easily achievable with minimal effort.0 -
Navuri✭✭✭You have no guild perks outside of a reserved name.
How is that 'opinion' and not fact?And now we're on the subject: why is it that you can't stand small guilds with tabards?
Don't confuse someone not taking a strong stance in support of something to mean they are against it - or in your words "can't stand it".
As it is, small guilds can have tabards. 10 members is minute when you consider that the upper limit is 500. Don't act as if you have all been barred from content because ZOS has made the condition to have a tabard prohibitive, when it is easily achievable with minimal effort.
Read: We don't want 10 people. We have 8. That's it.
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Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, ESO exists to allow people who love the franchise to team up and play the game together. A group, consists of Four people. If said Four people want to form a Guild, and pvp/do dungeons together. Then, They are a group, and a guild and by all means, they are teaming up to play the game together. So all of those boxes are checked. So why can't small guilds also have a tabard, just because the guild is smaller, doesn't mean it is any less a guild, or any less a group of people, playing the game together.
The fact there is adventure zone content, and dungeons for Four players, at all, shows they want to cater to small team dynamics. If pretty much all the content I want to do, only requires me to have a close knit guild of 4-6 people, then, why should we not have a tabard? sure we might grow, we might get more members, eventually and over time. But to say that a small guild doesn't get a tabard seems to be an oversight to me.
Using your own argument, then people with 4 man "guilds" not only should have access to tabards (intended for 10+ guilds) but also should be able to 4 man Trials, just because they are part of the game.....
A four man "guild" is not a guild and instead of caving in to cater to this small group of people that believe they are entitle to everything just because the pay for the game sub, how about they seal the coffin by simply making it so that you actually need 10 people to even form a guild?
See my argument is as valid as yours. A group of people is not a guild, it's a group, just because you can form a guild with 1 or 4, doesn't entitle you to have all the guild perks. The perks come with numbers and only until you, and the hand full of people arguing to the contrary, come to realize this, there is no argument.
Today they give tabards to 1 man guilds, then tomorrow, access to the bank to 4 man guilds, then next week, store access to 10 man guilds, so tell me, when is this going to stop? Never, because people will never stop asking for more when they don't even want to do the basics steps to get what they ask without even putting up the effort. You and other want Tabards? Join a guild that have them or make your own guild and recruit 10+ people, it's really that simple....
We're not talking about banks and stores. This is about tabards, it's not about free levels, it's not about free gear, it's about tabards. Just tabards. Joining a bigger guild, is not a solution to wanting My guild, to be able to have a tabard. It provides no remedy to the topic. Why must you lambast small guilds so ? simply for wanting a tabard, I have been met with so much outcry for what? Why does it take so much away from the game, for a fellow player to have a simple want fulfilled? This is supposedly a community, of gamers really when it all comes down to it. We may not all like eachother and we may not all get along. Everybody has their own reasons for playing and their own goals in game. But to just staunchly tread all over someone for wanting something So basic, and So simple. That effects not one iota the gameplay experience for you, or anyone else. But tremendously impacts the experience for others. It is something that would make some of us happy. Small guilds are people too, we're players, just the same as everyone else.
While there are some incentives that larger guilds should enjoy, and they do, banks and stores. Tabards, in my opinion should not be among those limit restricted incentives.
You are entitled to your opinion and if you disagree, great. But don't tell me my guild isn't a guild, and don't say there is no argument or that there is no merit to any of this. There is an argument, I've presented one.
Last week it was about guild banks. Once (if) sub 10 member guilds get tabards, then it will once again be about getting guild banks under with under 10 members. When (if) guilds with under 10 members get banks, then it will once again be about getting a guild store.
I actually do sympathize with small family guilds that want a tabard, but the standard is set to 10. There are options. You could simply hook up with another small family, or can't you just ask a few people to join your guild in order to get it up to 10 with the understanding that you just need their help in order to create a tabard? Once the tabard is created, they could then feel free to leave the guild. I saw this with WoW guilds endlessly.
"Looking for a few people to join our guild in order for us to create a guild tabard. You can feel free to stay or leave after the tabard is created"
You might be surprised how many people would be willing to help. And you might even make a few friends along the way.
Edited by Alphashado on August 9, 2014 11:18AM0 -
Canstaht✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »Yes, ESO exists to allow people who love the franchise to team up and play the game together. A group, consists of Four people. If said Four people want to form a Guild, and pvp/do dungeons together. Then, They are a group, and a guild and by all means, they are teaming up to play the game together. So all of those boxes are checked. So why can't small guilds also have a tabard, just because the guild is smaller, doesn't mean it is any less a guild, or any less a group of people, playing the game together.
The fact there is adventure zone content, and dungeons for Four players, at all, shows they want to cater to small team dynamics. If pretty much all the content I want to do, only requires me to have a close knit guild of 4-6 people, then, why should we not have a tabard? sure we might grow, we might get more members, eventually and over time. But to say that a small guild doesn't get a tabard seems to be an oversight to me.
Using your own argument, then people with 4 man "guilds" not only should have access to tabards (intended for 10+ guilds) but also should be able to 4 man Trials, just because they are part of the game.....
A four man "guild" is not a guild and instead of caving in to cater to this small group of people that believe they are entitle to everything just because the pay for the game sub, how about they seal the coffin by simply making it so that you actually need 10 people to even form a guild?
See my argument is as valid as yours. A group of people is not a guild, it's a group, just because you can form a guild with 1 or 4, doesn't entitle you to have all the guild perks. The perks come with numbers and only until you, and the hand full of people arguing to the contrary, come to realize this, there is no argument.
Today they give tabards to 1 man guilds, then tomorrow, access to the bank to 4 man guilds, then next week, store access to 10 man guilds, so tell me, when is this going to stop? Never, because people will never stop asking for more when they don't even want to do the basics steps to get what they ask without even putting up the effort. You and other want Tabards? Join a guild that have them or make your own guild and recruit 10+ people, it's really that simple....
We're not talking about banks and stores. This is about tabards, it's not about free levels, it's not about free gear, it's about tabards. Just tabards. Joining a bigger guild, is not a solution to wanting My guild, to be able to have a tabard. It provides no remedy to the topic. Why must you lambast small guilds so ? simply for wanting a tabard, I have been met with so much outcry for what? Why does it take so much away from the game, for a fellow player to have a simple want fulfilled? This is supposedly a community, of gamers really when it all comes down to it. We may not all like eachother and we may not all get along. Everybody has their own reasons for playing and their own goals in game. But to just staunchly tread all over someone for wanting something So basic, and So simple. That effects not one iota the gameplay experience for you, or anyone else. But tremendously impacts the experience for others. It is something that would make some of us happy. Small guilds are people too, we're players, just the same as everyone else.
While there are some incentives that larger guilds should enjoy, and they do, banks and stores. Tabards, in my opinion should not be among those limit restricted incentives.
You are entitled to your opinion and if you disagree, great. But don't tell me my guild isn't a guild, and don't say there is no argument or that there is no merit to any of this. There is an argument, I've presented one.
Last week it was about guild banks. Once (if) sub 10 member guilds get tabards, then it will once again be about getting guild banks under with under 10 members. When (if) guilds with under 10 members get banks, then it will once again be about getting a guild store.
I actually do sympathize with small family guilds that want a tabard, but the standard is set to 10. There are options. You could simply hook up with another small family, or can't you just ask a few people to join your guild in order to get it up to 10 with the understanding that you just need their help in order to create a tabard? Once the tabard is created, they could then feel free to leave the guild. I saw this with WoW guilds endlessly.
"Looking for a few people to join our guild in order for us to create a guild tabard. You can feel free to stay or leave after the tabard is created"
You might be surprised how many people would be willing to help. And you might even make a few friends along the way.
So, because people will perpetually want things. Nothing should ever change? I didn't ask for tabards for one man guilds. And whether people will want banks or not, in the future and ask for it has little to do with the tabard. Just because people want something, doesn't mean they will get it. And I can assure you, I wouldn't bother trying to champion a bank option for small guilds because just trying to get a tabard has been fraught with such derision I'm genuinely baffled.
If I could invite a handful more, and then we could make our tabard, and if they left, keep it. Then I suppose that wouldn't be such a horrible solution. But if it's like banks, if the number falls below 10, then you lose it. It's not a solution at all. I honestly don't know if that's the case with tabards, please correct me on that if you do.
I am not opposed to making friends in game, and expanding the guild and having more members. I am opposed to having to mass recruit, to receive a feature that seems both simple and basic. With no impact on game play or advantages over any other guild/player for having it.
I would point out, too that there isn't a great deal of good fellowship here on the forum so far as I've experienced. Perhaps in game people are nicer, and more open to helping one another but once they get on forum it's akin to road rage. I'm not sure I don't post on forums much and I haven't had a compelling reason to make a post until now. I have issue with the tabard restriction, I'm voicing my case. Zenimax will hear it, or not.0 -
Canstaht✭✭✭Fortunately, most of us see sense otherwise ZOS might need to change the guild startup system and I hate to see dev time wasted.
The ability to begin the process of forming a guild at only one member appears to have confused some members into believing they have a guild when they don't.
Under 10 members and all you have is a reserved name for your potential guild. If you don't intend to grow that guild then a reserved name is all you will have.
That is your opinion, and you are welcome to it. It doesn't change the presented argument. How a guild is defined may not change in game. Ultimately ZOS will do what ZOS chooses. Change will not occur without any feedback, and that is the purpose of this discussion. 'Sense' is subjective. As I see plenty of sense in allowing small guilds to have a tabard. I am not alone in that opinion, either.
How is this opinion:
"Under 10 members and all you have is a reserved name for your potential guild. If you don't intend to grow that guild then a reserved name is all you will have."
Is it not a fact? or do you have any guild perks I am not aware of?
[snip]
Perks alone, do not a guild make. Whether the game recognizes it, or you recognize it. If we call ourselves a guild, we are one. Plain and simple. I have not seen it explicitly stated by ZOS/anything I've read in the game that 'under ten is only reserving a name' it says 'create guild' and that's exactly what the function does, you can invite people to it, you can converse with them in guild chat. Guild chat is technically a perk, I guess in and of itself. Admittedly not much of one.
What you said, was an opinion. How is it not? and whether it is recognized as a guild or not, could well be an issue on it's own merit. I want my guild to be recognized as a guild, and we would like a tabard.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 8, 2023 6:12PM0 -
Canstaht✭✭✭
If it is less then 10 man, it is not a public guild to begin with. It's a private guild where only select few are allowed. As such it does not serve the purpose Guilds server in the game (community hubs; centers of Trade, PvE, PvP or RP activity).Dear Zenimax, why do you punish small guilds? No guild bank for guilds under 10 members, alright. I don't agree with it, but I'm over it. However, to deny a small guild the ability to make and have a heraldry and tabard, is pretty much against the core principle of freedom to play the way you want that Elder scrolls is known for. I petition for the member requirement for guild heraldry be removed. I see no possible reason to prevent smaller guilds from having it, it doesn't effect game play mechanics or abuse anything.
I would like an explanation for this, truly.
You only made it to have a elitarian club and a overview who of your close friends is online.
As did I. I have a 3 person guild with no admission for people that don't belong to my computerclub in real life (not many play ESO right now).
I find the limit to "no guild bank" and "no heraldy" absolutely fair and acceptable. If I do not even inlude a lousy 10 players, my guild is hardly worth the space a guild bank or heradry would need on the server.
Most end game guilds I'm aware of are far from public, in fact most guilds in my entire experience playing MMO's are exactly that, private. You have to apply, and present why you would fit with the existing membership, or play extensively with existing members before being invited. It's a reasonable practice, why would a guild leader, want to just haphazardly invite people to the detriment of their guild and community.
I've run large guilds before, it's a lot of work, a lot of effort and I commend anyone that wishes to take the time to do it, and do it well. I don't wish to run a large guild again, nor am I overly driven towards end game raiding. Burnt out of that, not saying I won't complete all content in ESO, just to do it. But it won't be my sole focus in the game to run PvE content. I prefer PvP. personally and that should be no more or less valid than what anyone else wants to do in game.
I didn't make the guild small to be elitist, and I never said I would never invite new members, but If I'm going to invite someone, it would have to be someone that shared our play style, interest, fit in and then wanted to join. There isn't a huge draw to smaller guilds, people like big end game guilds in the main. Another poster said they had a small guild and they Had tried recruiting, to no avail. Because lets face it, small scale guilds are hard to recruit for.
So either we have to make large guilds, or painstakingly seek out good members, just to be considered valid. Inviting random people just to invite random people doesn't make a guild more of a guild. To me, it makes it less of one.
A guild is meant to be an organized forum for like minded individuals, nothing more, nothing less. When put behind a restriction of numbers and member limits and with this whole suggestion to blindly invite more people, that would defeat the whole concept of a guild and diminish the quality of it, the atmosphere would suffer for it for all included. If I'm going to invite someone it should be for the right reasons, not to receive a basic feature that should otherwise be available in the first place.
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Stratti✭✭✭✭✭Dear Zenimax, why do you punish small guilds? No guild bank for guilds under 10 members, alright. I don't agree with it, but I'm over it. However, to deny a small guild the ability to make and have a heraldry and tabard, is pretty much against the core principle of freedom to play the way you want that Elder scrolls is known for. I petition for the member requirement for guild heraldry be removed. I see no possible reason to prevent smaller guilds from having it, it doesn't effect game play mechanics or abuse anything.
I would like an explanation for this, truly.
A guild is meant to be a large organisation. What you describe is a small kinship group mascarading as a guild . There needs to be some limit to accommodating players to ensure the integrity of the guild system0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I actually do not have a problem with creating a guild tabard with only the founding player. I think that this should be a basic property of all guilds and you get a plain white tabard if you decide not to design a custom one.
I think this a good idea. The main reason is that it does not really change anything, the whole tabard thing is largely cosmetic, at the cost of 2000 gold.
If someone wants to create the Guild Of One and make some pretty tabard, spend 2k on it, and wear it around like he is Super Guild, then I actually see no harm in that.
Tabards are just cosmetic. Rather than make a tabard equipment slot, they used the costume slot. Even if a character is wearing a tabard, it is just for looks as we have no way of knowing what guild it is from unless we stop that character and ask. The only way to find out what tabard goes with what guild without detaining and asking someone is to find their guild trader.
Even if they have a tabard, the guild cannot get a trader until 50 members when the guild store is unlocked, so any guild between 10 and 50 members with a tabard might as well not have one for all the good it will do. Tabards are not useful beyond cosmetic until 50 members. Having a 10 member restriction is just arbitrary. It might as well be 50.
So, yeah, tabards for everyone!
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X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus1 -
Canstaht✭✭✭Dear Zenimax, why do you punish small guilds? No guild bank for guilds under 10 members, alright. I don't agree with it, but I'm over it. However, to deny a small guild the ability to make and have a heraldry and tabard, is pretty much against the core principle of freedom to play the way you want that Elder scrolls is known for. I petition for the member requirement for guild heraldry be removed. I see no possible reason to prevent smaller guilds from having it, it doesn't effect game play mechanics or abuse anything.
I would like an explanation for this, truly.
A guild is meant to be a large organisation. What you describe is a small kinship group mascarading as a guild . There needs to be some limit to accommodating players to ensure the integrity of the guild system
A guild is an organization of people who share similar interests and pursuits. Size is not a precursor, to a guild existing or being a guild. What I describe, is a guild. As for integrity of the guild system, itself. I will not bother to debate. Though it seems hardly realistic that smaller guilds having access to a tabard, infringes on the integrity of larger guilds.
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Canstaht✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »I actually do not have a problem with creating a guild tabard with only the founding player. I think that this should be a basic property of all guilds and you get a plain white tabard if you decide not to design a custom one.
I think this a good idea. The main reason is that it does not really change anything, the whole tabard thing is largely cosmetic, at the cost of 2000 gold.
If someone wants to create the Guild Of One and make some pretty tabard, spend 2k on it, and wear it around like he is Super Guild, then I actually see no harm in that.
Tabards are just cosmetic. Rather than make a tabard equipment slot, they used the costume slot. Even if a character is wearing a tabard, it is just for looks as we have no way of knowing what guild it is from unless we stop that character and ask. The only way to find out what tabard goes with what guild without detaining and asking someone is to find their guild trader.
Even if they have a tabard, the guild cannot get a trader until 50 members when the guild store is unlocked, so any guild between 10 and 50 members with a tabard might as well not have one for all the good it will do. Tabards are not useful beyond cosmetic until 50 members. Having a 10 member restriction is just arbitrary. It might as well be 50.
So, yeah, tabards for everyone!
Precisely the point I have been trying to make, thank you for your post.0