Zenimax, this memory leak is getting ridiculous

SirenofEntropy · August 2014

daemonios wrote: »

For what it's worth, the game seems more stable for me. I don't know if this is because of the update or because I reverted to running in windowed (full screen) to get over an issue where alt+tabbing to the desktop would crash the game in true full screen. I played a very long session in Cyrodiil yesterday (over 4 hours) and only crashed once.
[EDIT]Oh, and I no longer get Windows low memory warnings.

So far I've had the opposite experience. My game became a bit more stable when I switched to running it in true full screen instead of windowed full screen. Still crashing, but slightly less often now.

Brizz · August 2014

Obscure wrote: »

I counted 4 crashes in around 3 hours last night in Cyrodiil. The last one I took as a sign I should just give it up and go to bed.

@ZOS break the game on your own time. You've got paying customers to please. With this track record you've created an expectation for low quality among your own fanbase. What do you think they're saying outside the fanbase? You've got limited time to make it right before the next generation of gaming shows up and crushes ESO on all fronts. You've got a console version to refine and it's going to be going head to head with Bungie's Destiny. With the fairly recent announcement that they're coming to PC and Steam by March 2015, you have a $500 million dollar comparative market competitor on your turf whose only negative PR is related to who is getting what content exclusives. Rock solid content by the way, as the recent open *** beta test has it projected to be THE game of late Q3 2014, and no doubt a must have title this holiday season. Meanwhile at Zenimax, you're struggling just to get things working, introducing more problems in every update, and the only time the PR is positive is when they say nothing at all.

Keep it up and you're going to retain only a niche market of dedicated players, and no one else is going to care ESO ever existed. Stop treating your live servers like a beta test platform for future builds, you're doing far more harm to the longevity if the IP than simply delaying patches until they are fully tested, scrutinized, and smoothed out. If you never take the time, you'll never have the time, and we all know time is money... yours is no doubt steadily running out.

Everyone is thinking it, thank you for finding the perfect words.

ferzalrwb17_ESO · August 2014

SirenofEntropy wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

The 3.7GB "limit" you're thinking of applies to 32bit Operating systems that reserve some memory for Video processing and other things; not processes within 64bit OS's. Are you sure you watched the game die at this "magic" 3.7GB cap?

I definitely don't have a 32-bit OS. All I know is that every time my game reaches around 3.6-3.7 gb of RAM usage, it crashes. And it's not for my system being out of memory seeing as there's still plenty of free system RAM to spare when it happens.

Even if there's some other reason for the crashing, should this game client REALLY be using over 3.5 gb of RAM in a relatively short playing session? No, especially not when it's using a 32-bit client.

No. It is getting very close to the limit. It shouldn't necessarily crash at that limit but seeing as how what you are describing is almost certainly a memory leak then any cleanup clode is not going to be able to prevent crashing or other weird behaviour.

I'll be sure to check the process next time I run out to Cyrodiil to observe the Impulse-spam trains.

reggielee · August 2014

all I know is that the game used to use around 1.5 ram and now is up to around 3. havent crashed but the lag/latency is crazy sometimes, which I didnt have before this update.

DenverRalphy · August 2014

SirenofEntropy wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

The 3.7GB "limit" you're thinking of applies to 32bit Operating systems that reserve some memory for Video processing and other things; not processes within 64bit OS's. Are you sure you watched the game die at this "magic" 3.7GB cap?

Even if there's some other reason for the crashing, should this game client REALLY be using over 3.5 gb of RAM in a relatively short playing session? No, especially not when it's using a 32-bit client.

Actually, yes, it should. Unused RAM is wasted RAM. As long as the memory is cleared/cleaned when needed, or upon closing/shutting-down the program, then yes, it should use all available resources.

Shader_Shibes · August 2014

Never crashed in months for me, well once, but i was testing a overclock on my new pc. Anyway, since the last patch i have crashed frequently in pvp, and i have disabled all addons to rule out that.

dharbert · August 2014

12 crashes since I posted this just an hour or so ago.....

I can't play in Cyrodiil for more than 10 minutes at a time.

ferzalrwb17_ESO · August 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SirenofEntropy wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

The 3.7GB "limit" you're thinking of applies to 32bit Operating systems that reserve some memory for Video processing and other things; not processes within 64bit OS's. Are you sure you watched the game die at this "magic" 3.7GB cap?

Even if there's some other reason for the crashing, should this game client REALLY be using over 3.5 gb of RAM in a relatively short playing session? No, especially not when it's using a 32-bit client.

Actually, yes, it should. Unused RAM is wasted RAM. As long as the memory is cleared/cleaned when needed, or upon closing/shutting-down the program, then yes, it should use all available resources.

Umm.... I think Zeni has a job for you.

SirenofEntropy · August 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SirenofEntropy wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

The 3.7GB "limit" you're thinking of applies to 32bit Operating systems that reserve some memory for Video processing and other things; not processes within 64bit OS's. Are you sure you watched the game die at this "magic" 3.7GB cap?

Even if there's some other reason for the crashing, should this game client REALLY be using over 3.5 gb of RAM in a relatively short playing session? No, especially not when it's using a 32-bit client.

Actually, yes, it should. Unused RAM is wasted RAM. As long as the memory is cleared/cleaned when needed, or upon closing/shutting-down the program, then yes, it should use all available resources.

If that's true then maybe the issue here is that it ISN'T getting cleaned out when it should, thus it ends up ballooning over the limit of what a 32-bit client can handle.

I guess for troubleshooting purposes I should note:
-I am not using any addons nor have I ever had any installed
-Every driver on my pc is up to date
-My PC is not overheating (I do monitor these things)
-This crashing issue never plagued me until the last update, in fact before the update I had only crashed twice and that stopped once I started running the game in Windows XP compatibility mode.
-Tried running client repair and it didn't find any problems
-EVERY TIME the game crashes it's always when the RAM usage has exceed around 3.6-3.7 GB. How is that NOT a memory leak?

ferzalrwb17_ESO · August 2014

SirenofEntropy wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SirenofEntropy wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

The 3.7GB "limit" you're thinking of applies to 32bit Operating systems that reserve some memory for Video processing and other things; not processes within 64bit OS's. Are you sure you watched the game die at this "magic" 3.7GB cap?

Even if there's some other reason for the crashing, should this game client REALLY be using over 3.5 gb of RAM in a relatively short playing session? No, especially not when it's using a 32-bit client.

Actually, yes, it should. Unused RAM is wasted RAM. As long as the memory is cleared/cleaned when needed, or upon closing/shutting-down the program, then yes, it should use all available resources.

If that's true then maybe the issue here is that it ISN'T getting cleaned out when it should, thus it ends up ballooning over the limit of what a 32-bit client can handle.

It's not true.

starlizard70ub17_ESO · August 2014

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SirenofEntropy wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

The 3.7GB "limit" you're thinking of applies to 32bit Operating systems that reserve some memory for Video processing and other things; not processes within 64bit OS's. Are you sure you watched the game die at this "magic" 3.7GB cap?

Even if there's some other reason for the crashing, should this game client REALLY be using over 3.5 gb of RAM in a relatively short playing session? No, especially not when it's using a 32-bit client.

Actually, yes, it should. Unused RAM is wasted RAM. As long as the memory is cleared/cleaned when needed, or upon closing/shutting-down the program, then yes, it should use all available resources.

Umm.... I think Zeni has a job for you.

You mean they're not working for Zeni already. LOL

DenverRalphy · August 2014

SirenofEntropy wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SirenofEntropy wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

The 3.7GB "limit" you're thinking of applies to 32bit Operating systems that reserve some memory for Video processing and other things; not processes within 64bit OS's. Are you sure you watched the game die at this "magic" 3.7GB cap?

Even if there's some other reason for the crashing, should this game client REALLY be using over 3.5 gb of RAM in a relatively short playing session? No, especially not when it's using a 32-bit client.

Actually, yes, it should. Unused RAM is wasted RAM. As long as the memory is cleared/cleaned when needed, or upon closing/shutting-down the program, then yes, it should use all available resources.

If that's true then maybe the issue here is that it ISN'T getting cleaned out when it should, thus it ends up ballooning over the limit of what a 32-bit client can handle.

It can't balloon over. The kernel won't allow for it. Memory leaks are caused by dynamic objects being created, but not being destroyed when they are no longer relevant. The symptoms of a memory leak is a dramatic slowdown after memory is full and the onboard storage (ie the hard drive) is utilized for memory management (basically memory and hard drive is swapping data).

Unless your hard drive is full and can no longer handle the swapfile mechanic. Basically your memory would have to be full, and your drives as well before a crash occurs.

Nestor · August 2014

jrgray93 wrote: »

I usually assume if somebody knows enough to identify it as a memory leak instead of just a crash, that they probably, you know, know what it is.

Most people don't know what a Memory Leak is or how it manifests itself. It's a term they heard, sounds cool, and they throw it out whenever there is a problem with a game or program. For example, a loop in a program can tie up memory resources to the point where a program can crash, but it's not a Memory Leak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_leak

There are many reasons why a PC Program will crash, and those reasons are multiplied when a server and the internet is involved.

I have not had a crash since the Patch. I have had lag, my Bow act up, I have had the game "disconnect" a few times where my character could only be partially controlled, and logging out and in again fixed those issues. Those are not symptoms of a Memory Leak. Of course some of these lockups came at the worst time, like when I was taking 3 of my characters through the latter stages of the MQ for the game. One happened just as I got to Mannimarco, grrrr.

SirenofEntropy · August 2014

Nestor wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

I usually assume if somebody knows enough to identify it as a memory leak instead of just a crash, that they probably, you know, know what it is.

Most people don't know what a Memory Leak is or how it manifests itself. It's a term they heard, sounds cool, and they throw it out whenever there is a problem with a game or program. For example, a loop in a program can tie up memory resources to the point where a program can crash, but it's not a Memory Leak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_leak

There are many reasons why a PC Program will crash, and those reasons are multiplied when a server and the internet is involved.

I have no doubt that you're correct here, however, why is the game client using so much RAM if it's clearing the memory the way it should be? I've seen some people say their game only uses around 1.5 GB of RAM, so why is that it for some people it's going over 3.5 GB? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Also, why did this just start occurring for many of us after the last update? If I can rule out most other potential crash-causers (addons, pc temps, bad hardware, other processes running, etc) then what does that leave?

I'd really just like this resolved so I can play my game again without having to constantly worry when about it's going to crash again.

ferzalrwb17_ESO · August 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SirenofEntropy wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SirenofEntropy wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

The 3.7GB "limit" you're thinking of applies to 32bit Operating systems that reserve some memory for Video processing and other things; not processes within 64bit OS's. Are you sure you watched the game die at this "magic" 3.7GB cap?

Even if there's some other reason for the crashing, should this game client REALLY be using over 3.5 gb of RAM in a relatively short playing session? No, especially not when it's using a 32-bit client.

Actually, yes, it should. Unused RAM is wasted RAM. As long as the memory is cleared/cleaned when needed, or upon closing/shutting-down the program, then yes, it should use all available resources.

If that's true then maybe the issue here is that it ISN'T getting cleaned out when it should, thus it ends up ballooning over the limit of what a 32-bit client can handle.

It can't balloon over. The kernel won't allow for it. Memory leaks are caused by dynamic objects being created, but not being destroyed when they are no longer relevant. The symptoms of a memory leak is a dramatic slowdown after memory is full and the onboard storage (ie the hard drive) is utilized for memory management (basically memory and hard drive is swapping data).

Unless your hard drive is full and can no longer handle the swapfile mechanic. Basically your memory would have to be full, and your drives as well before a crash occurs.

Somebody's been googling I see...

But LOL. You're looking at entire OS memory management. This is not applicable here. Try "I'm feeling lucky". You might get more relevant results.

Ojustaboo · August 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

Here we go again with people who have no understanding of how computers work blaming a "memory leak" for their game crashes. I'm sick of this.

Except my Alienware Aurora with i7 930 processor, 16g Ram, and a nVidia 651i 2g video card, played this game fine with a few crashes from time to time before 1.3.3. But after the patch, I crash every 10 to 15 mins in game now. Plus I can play Bioshock Infinite, Thief, Far Cry 3 and a host of other highend, heavy graphic games at max settings with no problems. I guessing it was the patch that broke something in ESO, causing the memory leak and other problems.

And yet many many gamers with lower specs are not suffering the same symptoms. Kindly show evidence that it's a memory leak causing the crashes. After all... Memory leaks are not the sole cause of crashes. There are literally thousands of other causes.

As I have kept saying in various threads, my entire group of 18 were constantly being kicked to desktop (in Cyrodiil on EU), sometimes all at the same second so that doesn't look like a memory leak to me, but it does look like a problem at Zenimax's end.

Someone else posted here

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/124637/fun-with-the-crazy-damage-scalating-bug/p1

I had a new bug in cyrodiil that the longer i play the more damage my abilities do, this bug just happens to be just before a crash to desktop (maybe a new memory leak bug or something with my skills setup).

So something is going screwy somewhere

Galen · August 2014

I have noticed abnormally high memory usage that appears to be causing my game to crash.

I run WinXP sp3 with 2GB of RAM (yes, I know, a pitiful amount by modern standards). Not the best rig by far and it is rather old (approaching ~10 years old).

Regardless of that, before this update, I had no issues with high memory usage and crashing.

After the 3.1 update, memory usage climbs high and fast (as I've seen in task manager), and apparently is not clearing out/resetting like it should/did before the update. This results in stuttering/slow downs as it reaches the limit of my RAM and starts paging, and then it crashes shortly after that, showing ESO's report crash screen.

This all usually happens within an hour or two of gameplay. Before the update, I could play for hours on end without trouble.

(Note: This is in PvE, not Cyrodiil. From what I understand from others' posts from all over this forum, Cyrodiil has its own set of issues that can/do cause lag/disconnects/crashes in addition to whatever is causing this memory issue.)

I do not launch the game from the launcher (I use the eso.exe), so that's not contributing to high mem usage. It is specifically eso.exe eating up all my memory as it climbs out of control. Before the update, it would consistently hover around or less than 1-1.5GB of mem usage and all was good with no crashes even after hours and hours of play (though still pushing the limits of what my dinosaur can handle).

Circuitous · August 2014

As above, I mostly PvE and am still experiencing issues with abnormally high RAM usage. Launching ESO it sits comfortably at about 800MB used. I've been checking back to task manager regularly to watch it, and it steadily climbs up to around 2.2GB before the performance gets bad enough that I quit out and relaunch. These issues weren't occurring before 1.3, or at least not as quickly.

I even BSOD'd using a screenshot application to test a tabard design... actually, not sure I can blame that on a memory leak, but it happened after a significant amount of playtime post 1.3 before I was regularly monitoring RAM, so I dunno.

MercyKilling · August 2014

Crumpy wrote: »

This game is *** honestly and serioiusly

I've got to ask....

...then why are you here?

I've got an AMD Athalon II x4 645 processor, 9 GB of RAM and an NVidia GeForce GTX 750. CTD has only occurred twice to me, and both times for the "Unknown Error".

Edit: Both crashes were before this new patch.

DenverRalphy · August 2014

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SirenofEntropy wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SirenofEntropy wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

The 3.7GB "limit" you're thinking of applies to 32bit Operating systems that reserve some memory for Video processing and other things; not processes within 64bit OS's. Are you sure you watched the game die at this "magic" 3.7GB cap?

Even if there's some other reason for the crashing, should this game client REALLY be using over 3.5 gb of RAM in a relatively short playing session? No, especially not when it's using a 32-bit client.

Actually, yes, it should. Unused RAM is wasted RAM. As long as the memory is cleared/cleaned when needed, or upon closing/shutting-down the program, then yes, it should use all available resources.

If that's true then maybe the issue here is that it ISN'T getting cleaned out when it should, thus it ends up ballooning over the limit of what a 32-bit client can handle.

It can't balloon over. The kernel won't allow for it. Memory leaks are caused by dynamic objects being created, but not being destroyed when they are no longer relevant. The symptoms of a memory leak is a dramatic slowdown after memory is full and the onboard storage (ie the hard drive) is utilized for memory management (basically memory and hard drive is swapping data).

Unless your hard drive is full and can no longer handle the swapfile mechanic. Basically your memory would have to be full, and your drives as well before a crash occurs.

Somebody's been googling I see...

Nice try at being snarky. But no. Swing and a miss... thanks for playing. I speak from experience. But hey... if it makes you feel better. Knock yourself out.

DenverRalphy · August 2014

Ojustaboo wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

Here we go again with people who have no understanding of how computers work blaming a "memory leak" for their game crashes. I'm sick of this.

Except my Alienware Aurora with i7 930 processor, 16g Ram, and a nVidia 651i 2g video card, played this game fine with a few crashes from time to time before 1.3.3. But after the patch, I crash every 10 to 15 mins in game now. Plus I can play Bioshock Infinite, Thief, Far Cry 3 and a host of other highend, heavy graphic games at max settings with no problems. I guessing it was the patch that broke something in ESO, causing the memory leak and other problems.

And yet many many gamers with lower specs are not suffering the same symptoms. Kindly show evidence that it's a memory leak causing the crashes. After all... Memory leaks are not the sole cause of crashes. There are literally thousands of other causes.

As I have kept saying in various threads, my entire group of 18 were constantly being kicked to desktop (in Cyrodiil on EU), sometimes all at the same second so that doesn't look like a memory leak to me, but it does look like a problem at Zenimax's end.

Someone else posted here

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/124637/fun-with-the-crazy-damage-scalating-bug/p1

I had a new bug in cyrodiil that the longer i play the more damage my abilities do, this bug just happens to be just before a crash to desktop (maybe a new memory leak bug or something with my skills setup).

So something is going screwy somewhere

And yet... none of what you have stated has pointed to a memory leak. Which is what this thread is all about.

There's no question that there's some bugs. And that the game suffers from some Exception Handling. But nothing has pointed to the root cause being memory leaks.

dharbert · August 2014

Enough with the memory leak vs. whatever argument. The point is, the latest patch screwed up the game for a lot of people. I have crashed to desktop at least 20 times today, mostly in Cryodiil, but also in other zones.

So, Zenimax has at least 20 reports from just me, not including the hundreds (at least) other players that are having this problem.

I had zero crashes before this latest patch. ZERO.......fix it.

Liquid_Time · August 2014

Memory usage is very high. It is occurring just like the previous "confirmed" memory leak in the past. Now I am not saying I "know" this is a memory leak.. simply stating that I am experiencing the same performance problems just like the past incident.

Either way this has been reported by a very large number of people and needs to be at the very least identified.. It has been a few days now since these reports sprung up and I don't think I have seen any responses regarding it.

TheBull · August 2014

NerfEverything wrote: »

Here we go again with people who have no understanding of how computers work blaming a "memory leak" for their game crashes. I'm sick of this.

I never cry memory leak, but this time it's pretty obvious. Relog ever couple hours and I'm fine, but I've watched my client memory usage creep 1.2(normal) to 3.6 over the course of those hours. It crashes at that point. Myabe it's not a "mem leak" but it certainly something.

Elsonso · August 2014

I am curious... Is anyone who is experiencing the out of memory error (memory leak) using weapon swapping?

Instant Weapon Swap

We’ve made changes to the way we cache textures for your alternate weapon that will allow you to swap weapons reliably and instantly. The previous delay when swapping has been reduced significantly, so swapping to your second ability set will be seamless and fast, making combat feel more responsive.

SirenofEntropy · August 2014

lordrichter wrote: »

I am curious... Is anyone who is experiencing the out of memory error (memory leak) using weapon swapping?

Instant Weapon Swap

We’ve made changes to the way we cache textures for your alternate weapon that will allow you to swap weapons reliably and instantly. The previous delay when swapping has been reduced significantly, so swapping to your second ability set will be seamless and fast, making combat feel more responsive.

Nope, the character I was predominantly crashing on is only level 8 and therefore not even able to weapon swap yet. So it's unlikely this has anything to do with it.

Elsonso · August 2014

SirenofEntropy wrote: »

Nope, the character I was predominantly crashing on is only level 8 and therefore not even able to weapon swap yet. So it's unlikely this has anything to do with it.

Bummer. I see no evidence of a memory leak or a potential out of memory condition on my Level 5, my Level 13, or my Level 33, but then I do not make wide use of weapon swapping, so I was wondering.

freespirit · August 2014

OK.........

Windows Vista 32 bit
3GB Ram
Intel (R) Core Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.4GHz
AMD Radeon HD 6570

No crashes since Update 1.3.3......

Not even in Cyrodiil..........

EU server

8 hour straight playing sessions.....

NO addons

Liquid_Time · August 2014

freespirit wrote: »

OK.........

Windows Vista 32 bit
3GB Ram
Intel (R) Core Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.4GHz
AMD Radeon HD 6570

No crashes since Update 1.3.3......

Not even in Cyrodiil..........

EU server

One word. Lucky.

:'(

brimits · August 2014

A 32 bit client would only see 32 bits of memory address in 1 hit. 3.7GB. So memory would have to be paged to take advantage of the 12GB or a 64bit client would be needed.

I guess it's 32 bit because it will work on a wider range of hardware and OS version.

I have had several crashes but I have found that some of the artwork data files are missing causing the problem.