The Dye Implementation is Hideous

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Audigy wrote: »

As far I understand the dye system, the actual colors are no new textures but modifications of the already existing ones.

So if you play around at the dye station (give the game a command), then the game alters the appearance of the original color (red, blue, green) - like we can if we play around on our PC settings. A picture will then look different, but its still the same picture and this is probably how it works with our armors as well.

I don't think its actually possible to make a brand new texture for each color & armor piece. The sheer amount of possibilities is too big, we would probably run around with a game folder of hundreds of GB then - filling our RAM in seconds.

Why would we need new textures? It's not textures that are the problem, it's the color itself. I'm confused.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

So far I like the dyes but it IS annoying that all the common and uncommon colors are a bit "muddy." The only clear and vibrant colors are ridiculously hard to get rares. The rares also seem to be the only shiny metal and/or satin-looking textures. I'd love to know how the Hades you got the emperor red! I've seen it and it looks amazing. WANT! But since I PvP very little I am extremely unlikely to EVER be Empress.

I have noxophilic black too. (which spell checks as *** incidentally teehee) I don't know why, I have only ever been a werewolf. I have a few other odd ones. I kind of hope I get to keep them. Ruby Throne Red really is a very nice color. Though Regicide Red sounds cooler, (I have that but I earned that one.)

Kronosphere · August 2014

u will be wearing that level 14 armor what, another 2 levels/30 minutes. whats the problem? but agree some shades come out/... odd on non metal

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Kronosphere wrote: »

u will be wearing that level 14 armor what, another 2 levels/30 minutes. whats the problem? but agree some shades come out/... odd on non metal

That's an alt, and I don't feel the need to make armor every 2 levels. I wore level 4 armor until level 16, then made level 14 armor. I will probably wear that until level 26 because I am getting more cotton than flax.

Thje armor with set bonuses is good enough to wear for some time. And I don't hardcore play the alts. But the armor was a nice shade, and having it flipped to that hideous newbie green was depressing.

It is now a royal purple and gold, but it seems so overstated for a level 22 character.

ThoradinBloodfire · August 2014

I like it, i like the idea. I did receive a shock at first login. I wish they would have kept the prior default look "default" though. My primal NB turned robin hood green like the disney fox in tights. My vr12 DK went from dark void blue steel to lipstick pinks and reds. yeah, i changed it to blues, blacks with green mohawk, but still... I liked the default on some of it.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

In the change it now thread they posted that while they intended to change colors, some of these colors weren't meant to be and they will patch it soonish.

So that is good.

Moonscythe · August 2014

It takes some trial and error but at least you can go back and rethink it which you can't do with your features. I have two purples. One is a nice dark true purple that looks lovely with the teal they call turquoise. The other purple is really somewhere between dark cranberry and burgundy. It's pretty but not purple.

While my sorceress lost her good white pants my nightblade wearing Redguard medium pants got a nice light golden tan, much better than the brown they were before.

I can see myself playing with clothes and dyes. I always liked playing dress-up when I was little.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · August 2014

I like the dyes. I have made a few changes to several chars.

It's impressive how tacky the game looks now with so many, colour challenged people doing their thing.

OrangeTheCat · August 2014

I think the dye system is a big win for ZOS. But no, it's not perfect. Some dyes look poor on cloth to be sure. Here are my two issues:

1) I tried dying the "glossy" parts of my VR12 cloth robe and the robe lost that glossy sheen after dying. I think the gloss should be derived from the underlying material (silk?) and not the dye itself. So the sheen should have survived the dye process.

2) I dislike the three vertical dye slots next to each armor piece in that I don't know which slot corresponds to which part of the armor. For me it is a lot of trial-and-error to get the correct part of the armor dyed and dyed a color that looks decent. This could be resolved by highlighting the region of the armor that will receive the dye as one mouses over one of the vertical rectangles.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

I think the dye system is a big win for ZOS. But no, it's not perfect. Some dyes look poor on cloth to be sure. Here are my two issues:

1) I tried dying the "glossy" parts of my VR12 cloth robe and the robe lost that glossy sheen after dying. I think the gloss should be derived from the underlying material (silk?) and not the dye itself. So the sheen should have survived the dye process.

2) I dislike the three vertical dye slots next to each armor piece in that I don't know which slot corresponds to which part of the armor. For me it is a lot of trial-and-error to get the correct part of the armor dyed and dyed a color that looks decent. This could be resolved by highlighting the region of the armor that will receive the dye as one mouses over one of the vertical rectangles.

for 1) you have to use rares to get the glossy equivs so that's the way they wanted it I assume. Reasons for you to do the harder stuff.

I agree with #2, It seems to change per individual piec also.

OrangeTheCat · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

I think the dye system is a big win for ZOS. But no, it's not perfect. Some dyes look poor on cloth to be sure. Here are my two issues:

1) I tried dying the "glossy" parts of my VR12 cloth robe and the robe lost that glossy sheen after dying. I think the gloss should be derived from the underlying material (silk?) and not the dye itself. So the sheen should have survived the dye process.

2) I dislike the three vertical dye slots next to each armor piece in that I don't know which slot corresponds to which part of the armor. For me it is a lot of trial-and-error to get the correct part of the armor dyed and dyed a color that looks decent. This could be resolved by highlighting the region of the armor that will receive the dye as one mouses over one of the vertical rectangles.

for 1) you have to use rares to get the glossy equivs so that's the way they wanted it I assume. Reasons for you to do the harder stuff.

I agree with #2, It seems to change per individual piec also.

Ah, thank you for that clarification on point 1. I might very well not have tried one of the rare dyes on it.

Re your comment on point 2, I got the impression that it "seems to change per indivicual piece" too but I can't swear to it though. If so, then I don't understand how the "dye sets" or "color sets" or whatever they are called can reliably work.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

I can verify it dying armor on four characters. it was entirely based on not only the piece of armor but the style and construction of the armor.

Some things I couldn't even effect the color of like the bulk of the low level plate dunmer pants I was dying.

MercyKilling · August 2014

And to think all this could have been avoided if Zenimax had opened up cosmetic modding as in the other Elder Scroll games. But nooooooooooooo.

aipex8_ESO · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I am perplexed by the color shifts in some of the gear. They didn't mention that in the patch and there was absolutely no reason for it, nothing looks better, and a ton of high level armor looks fuchsia or lobster colored.

Actually it was mentioned:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Armor Colors and Tints Adjusted
To prepare for our dye system, we've re-evaluated the color palette we use for armor and have made some adjustments to how colors display on gear throughout the game. This gives us more flexibility to add new armor sets and crafting materials, provides some more saturated colors, and will make upgrades consistently look more significant. The upgrade may alter the original colors on armor you already own, but you'll be able to choose your own color schemes with the dye system should you dislike the changes.

bellanca6561n · August 2014

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I am perplexed by the color shifts in some of the gear. They didn't mention that in the patch and there was absolutely no reason for it, nothing looks better, and a ton of high level armor looks fuchsia or lobster colored.

Actually they did. right under the pics of new color saturation. Some of the colors they picked don't seem to be right when compared to the reasons given...

Armor Colors and Tints Adjusted
To prepare for our dye system, we've re-evaluated the color palette we use for armor and have made some adjustments to how colors display on gear throughout the game. This gives us more flexibility to add new armor sets and crafting materials, provides some more saturated colors, and will make upgrades consistently look more significant. The upgrade may alter the original colors on armor you already own, but you'll be able to choose your own color schemes with the dye system should you dislike the changes.

Rookie mistake. You reserve palette colors years before launch because you know dyes are coming. You don't prepare for a feature that has been standard for 20 years *after* launch.

You also exclude certain colors from the palette years before launch because you know they won't fit with your game world.

What you don't do, in my opinion, is appropriate colors from the palette of existing crafted gear and make many of these, retroactively, the most desirable colors and, thus, unobtainable by their original owners unless they perform some series of tasks to get what they originally had back.

What you don't do, in my opinion, is break the crafting paradigm to insert an entirely new achievement based system that has nothing to do with crafting.

Have you gone to a bank in, say, Shornhelm or Davon's watch and beheld what you've created?

Yep, we're back to those colors you should have excluded again

Oh, I'm sure many of those people are quite happy. They take pleasure in hurting people's eyes

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

just to be clear I don't mind the achievement system in place, it gives me something to do when I don't feel like pvping. Up to the patch, I have been running finishing unfinished quests, trying to find m'iaq, trying to find extortable merchants, people bickering over unlit fires, and beggars to give gold to.

Woolenthreads · August 2014

What I noticed is that the dye is a "wash" on top of the base colours of the armour. A Brown Leather coloured White becomes a pale beige. A Bronze and Steel Armour coloured with a Dark Blue becomes a very dark blue with metallic blue. It makes it difficult to judge precisely what you're going to get. With one Alt, I had to reset the colours a couple of times to judge what might work with the base imperial Tan Armour. What I did discover is that the greens, that I have access to, look awful on low-level Medium and Light Armour

Exarch · August 2014

I've found in my limited testing that the same type of armor will die all the same color; color matching between different types of armor has been an issue in any game I've ever played with customizable colors. Alas, it's one more reason never to care about any piece of armor that drops; now will I not only not want to break my set bonus, I won't want anything to clash.

I don't understand the unlocking system, however; all of my characters have different colors unlocked, and all of them have colors unlocked for which they do not have the listed achievement.

bellanca6561n · August 2014

Well....having just visited those very banks I mentioned I saw fewer hideous color schemes than I did last night. Perhaps people are getting better at it or perhaps it was the fact that many fewer were on, no doubt in anticipation of the guild fix tomorrow.

Nonetheless this dye and washes thing will need work. And you can't just go to a dye station and fix it. Here's a good example. This was my level 11 Provisioner whom I don't intend to level. Nonetheless I wanted her to look nice so I used some enhancements to give her a proud and fine looking set of Daedric armor.

And this is how she looked after the patch. Without the hat visible. And I'd given her a different belt and shoulder guards but the rest was the same. I went to a dye station and found nothing short of horrid options for her.

Perhaps my VR 7 blacksmith and tailor will be able to fix it up for her....if he wears the stuff I suppose. And I presume we can sell dyed armor made by people with a good range of unlocked colors.

Still, you work the palette earlier in the project for MMOs. And another thing that takes months for these games that you will also have to fill out after the fact is the hundreds of containers they require....which this game is keenly short of and really needs.

Rosveen · August 2014

Woolenthreads wrote: »

What I noticed is that the dye is a "wash" on top of the base colours of the armour. A Brown Leather coloured White becomes a pale beige. A Bronze and Steel Armour coloured with a Dark Blue becomes a very dark blue with metallic blue. It makes it difficult to judge precisely what you're going to get. With one Alt, I had to reset the colours a couple of times to judge what might work with the base imperial Tan Armour. What I did discover is that the greens, that I have access to, look awful on low-level Medium and Light Armour

I tried all near-whites I had on low level light Argonian armor and they all looked brown.

But I was able to get a look I liked with my other characters, so the dye system looks fine to me. It could have been better, sure, and it definitely needs to be expanded in the future, but it works. If only ZOS hadn't changed so many standard armors' colors... Luckily, none of mine turned pink.

wounded_graywolf · August 2014

Moonstone White is a pretty good white color. It comes with the Trait Master achievement -- research all of the traits at least once, which is a crafting thing.

This is it on level 1 homespun robe cloth on a level 4 toon.

Anastasia · August 2014

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Well....having just visited those very banks I mentioned I saw fewer hideous color schemes than I did last night. Perhaps people are getting better at it or perhaps it was the fact that many fewer were on, no doubt in anticipation of the guild fix tomorrow.

Nonetheless this dye and washes thing will need work. And you can't just go to a dye station and fix it. Here's a good example. This was my level 11 Provisioner whom I don't intend to level. Nonetheless I wanted her to look nice so I used some enhancements to give her a proud and fine looking set of Daedric armor.

And this is how she looked after the patch. Without the hat visible. I went to a dye station and found nothing short of horrid options for her. Apart from her accomplishments as a cook she will never have the ability to look as good she did before.

Perhaps my VR 7 blacksmith and tailor will be able to fix it up for her....if he wears the stuff I suppose. And I presume we can sell dyed armor made by people with a good range of unlocked colors.

Still, you work the palette earlier in the project for MMOs. And another thing that takes months for these games that you will also have to fill out after the fact is the hundreds of containers they require....which this game is keenly short of and really needs.

***"And I presume we can sell dyed armor made by people with a good range of unlocked colors."***

No, you cannot. Your own account only; no trades/sells/giveaways etc with dyed armor.

Sadae · August 2014

I was shocked when I saw this thread. I think the dye system in this game is one of the best things they've done! (Other then the inability to dye shields and weapons.)

I'm thinking perhaps people need to get some of the better achievements for some of the better dyes. I certainly don't think they're washed out:

I had many other fabulous looking choices as well, but settled on these colors. Mind you I've also dedicated some effort to getting some of the more difficult achievements, which is a good thing: it gives players new goals to strive for to unlock nicer looking dyes.

Tabbycat · August 2014

I'm thinking we need a "dye remover" that gives the armor a base undercoat (something like an off-white) over which we can use our dyes without the old colors bleeding through.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2014

wounded_graywolf wrote: »

Moonstone White is a pretty good white color. It comes with the Trait Master achievement -- research all of the traits at least once, which is a crafting thing.

This is it on level 1 homespun robe cloth on a level 4 toon.

All depends on the Armor on my level 32 Khajiit leather Moonstone White is actually A Light Blue/Cyan.

AoEnwyr · August 2014

I'll have to try this out on my lv27 Sorc. I have a VR2 Templar in heavy armour and the dyes look fantastic. The colours (I'm using a dark red, light red and gold combo) look rich and have a nice depth to them without making her look like I coloured her in with MS paint.

AoEnwyr · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

For some inexplicable reason, the closest I can get is birch white for refining 300 materials and somehow I don't have it even though I have refined so much more than that.

Apparently these are new achievements and not retrospective which means you have to do it over again. I'm in the same boat.

Also for others, some of the brighter dyes are associated with fishing achievements. Hopefully this will motivate people to take up fishing and stop leaving all those worms/crawlers in the alchemy nodes...

wounded_graywolf · August 2014

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Apart from her accomplishments as a cook she will never have the ability to look as good she did before.

All achievements for dyes are account wide. Your VR12 toon's efforts benefit your baby Alts. :-)

GnatB · August 2014

Corew wrote: »

This, the dyes just tints the armor letting whatever is under show through.. so if I want a certain color I'll have to find armor with a similar base

If you're lucky, you can find a different color that when applied results in a close enough match. One of the reasons why having an actual color wheel is far better than the system they have here.

That said, if all the armor started off from a "grayscale" base, they wouldn't really have that problem.

enem · August 2014

I don't really mind the dye system as it is. not many nice colours but hey "it's not what you got but how you use it."

I am slightly concerned that they have let all the NPCs into the dye stations (and by the looks of it most just hit the Randomize option.) Most world characters I run into look... hideous.