Fix Stealth please!

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

bgoldbeck21_ESO wrote: »

Eekshnerf wrote: »

I think the issue here is that most people want to play their Nightblades as the guys who wade into combat and melt faces without ever having an issue. People also seem to think that an assassin is someone who can kill whoever they want...

We don't need people like you who come in here with no idea what your talking about. If you were to have fought any competent opponent in pvp you would quickly realize how false your ranting is. Yes, getting the jump on someone and backstabbing them does put the NB in a distinct advantage. Except, ANYONE can do this if they choose to build for backstab. Not only that, but you fail to realize even backstab can be 100% countered by a player who knows what they are doing.

man I couldn't even get past his wall of text to reach his point. Well done.

Eekshnerf · August 2014

bgoldbeck21_ESO wrote: »

We don't need people like you who come in here with no idea what your talking about. If you were to have fought any competent opponent in pvp you would quickly realize how false your ranting is. Yes, getting the jump on someone and backstabbing them does put the NB in a distinct advantage. Except, ANYONE can do this if they choose to build for backstab. Not only that, but you fail to realize even backstab can be 100% countered by a player who knows what they are doing.

Ok. What you should totally do is just shut everyone else down and boo-boo lip some more about how your class is underpowered. No, it can not be 100% countered if you're the one who knows what you're doing. The whole point of being a nightblade is being able to choose your battles. If you just rush in on the nearest VR12 Tank with plenty of others around, then you're probably gonna have a bad time. Maybe use some clever maneuvering, change your probably ***-poor build, and try to let your brain actively participate rather than mindlessly teleport stabbing to your own death.

Cody · August 2014

we have NOT been buffed. not majorly anyway. cloak is still buggy as hell, half the abilities of a NB are still useless(someone tell me what the point of shades is, please.) and we don't have any "pulled from the brink of death" abilities. Dks have dragon blood. sorcerers have BE and Critical surge, and templars have the best heals in the game. they have CRAZY self heals. the fact you cant interrupt them harder to deal with. NBs have NO such abilities. NONE. ZERO. stop saying we have been buffed, because we have not. if we don't drop our targets when we jump them, we usually die. we need a "pulled from the brink of death" ability of our own. and don't tell me "cloak" because again, its buggy as hell.

Samadhi · August 2014

NookyZooky wrote: »

...(someone tell me what the point of shades is, please.) ...

Summon against someone that is blocking in order to diminish their stamina pool more rapidly.
The teleport morph is kind of fun, but not entirely practical due to summoning limitations.
I used to screw with people by summoning Dual Shades from sneak, then kept hiding and letting them fight/run from the shades before finally going in for the opener; players would often burn off skills attacking the Shades meaning they had lower resources once I started the actual fight.

Neither morph is really good enough for me to keep on my bar though.
Fun and comical, but largely mediocre.

Ser Lobo · August 2014

NookyZooky wrote: »

we have NOT been buffed. not majorly anyway.

So you're argument is that our cloak is bugged, and we have no 'get out of jail free' ability? Fair.

Of course, your signature doesn't give readers the best impression as you represent the class in a discussion about our classes balance. Maybe it was meant to be funny?

Updating Blur to give us a self heal would really make that ability shine ... against it's current 'lack luster' settings.

GrimMauKin · August 2014

There are some issues with steal/invisibility that could do with tidying up - I always do significantly more damage stealthed or invisible from the rear than I do from a stealthed frontal attack even though in both situations I'm undetected; stealth also does occasionally seem to get broken when it shouldn't too. I do think that it's a shame that dodging breaks stealth - I'm used to Skyrim's stealthed forward roll skill.

In terms of escaping combat, I have the 2 passives that increase Shadow Cloak's duration slightly and another that increases movement speed whilst stealthed; I think I get 2.9 seconds of Shadow Cloak (during which MOBS don't interact with me or detect me) and movement speed close to that of sprinting; this usually gets me out of combat if needed, or at least far enough away to sprint from then on (stamina regen. increasing passives help here too and the passive that significantly increases armour for 4 seconds when leaving stealth give a bit of extra protection from missle attacks).

I'm also usually able to use Shadow Cloak to stealth upon approaching a MOB and walk straight past and out of its reaction zone before de-stealthing (not always 100% effective).

HairyFairy · August 2014

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

HairyFairy wrote: »

Exactly. there are potions, and mage lights, and everythign else against a nightblades abilities...What can we use against you? Yes these things are meant as a whole, due to everyone being able to go into sneak, but nightblades main ability is cloak, and we can't utilize it correctly because of everything else put into place to detect

Personally I think these things should work against sneaking not cloaking.

Yes, I agree, there needs to be a difference between the two. which is why i had said to make it so during our 2.4 seconds of invis, we are immune.

HairyFairy · August 2014

I think the issue here is that most people want to play their Nightblades as the guys who wade into combat and melt faces without ever having an issue. People also seem to think that an assassin is someone who can kill whoever they want, whenever they want, and thats that. If people started playing their Nightblades as sneaky fellows who pick off one enemy at a time, then they'll have a lot more fun. I can't think of any time in PvP when I've sneak attacked someone all alone and lost. And I play Med/DW/Bow

If we play like this our entire pvp career, emperor will never happen for us. We need to be a viable opponent in every battle, not just ganking.

Ser Lobo · August 2014

HairyFairy wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

HairyFairy wrote: »

Exactly. there are potions, and mage lights, and everythign else against a nightblades abilities...What can we use against you? Yes these things are meant as a whole, due to everyone being able to go into sneak, but nightblades main ability is cloak, and we can't utilize it correctly because of everything else put into place to detect

Personally I think these things should work against sneaking not cloaking.

Yes, I agree, there needs to be a difference between the two. which is why i had said to make it so during our 2.4 seconds of invis, we are immune.

I see what you guys are suggesting now. I would argue, maybe not immune to taking damage, but immune to being pushed out of invis for taking damage.

The mechanic of 'taking damage exits invisibility' was necessary in previous titles due to the ability to make invis last up to to 60 seconds or more. We're pushing far less of that here.

Atreyu · August 2014

Of all the fixes NB could/should receive, This one need some serious attention when working on it.

I mean, last thing we need is NB escaping on will in PvP every damn time they want to.

Ser Lobo · August 2014

Atreyu wrote: »

Of all the fixes NB could/should receive, This one need some serious attention when working on it.

I mean, last thing we need is NB escaping on will in PvP every damn time they want to.

Make it more powerful, and reliable, and maybe even increase the time. Then make it cost more to spam, like BE.

Cody · August 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

NookyZooky wrote: »

we have NOT been buffed. not majorly anyway.

So you're argument is that our cloak is bugged, and we have no 'get out of jail free' ability? Fair.

Of course, your signature doesn't give readers the best impression as you represent the class in a discussion about our classes balance. Maybe it was meant to be funny?

Updating Blur to give us a self heal would really make that ability shine ... against it's current 'lack luster' settings.

my signature is meant to be funny. i know what you are trying to say about me being a NB in a NB discussion.... im not saying what i say because i want my class to be OP. what im saying is the truth. if i wanted my class to be OP, i would say some nonsense like "make cloak last 20 seconds"(saw someone request it last 30 seconds on another thread) i don't play the game enough to be good at it anyway.
heck if cloak was not so buggy, i would not be complaining so much to begin with.

TheAmu · August 2014

Delte wrote: »

On its own Shadowy Disguise is weak added with the passives and other abilities it has a very beautiful synergy with our class skills.

Except with Refreshing Path. Which, incidentally, is in the same damn skill tree. But if you try to use SD after popping RP it breaks/fails instantly.

PlagueMonk · August 2014

Delte wrote: »

I play a Nightblade post 50 now and stealth works fine. Yes there is a few bugs, but shadowy disguise works as intended.

Sorry but no it does NOT work as intended. I currently run SD and even in PvE I will pop it only to have me pop back out of stealth a split second later. The mob did not apply a DoT or anything else to me. It's very hit or miss and I never know when it will or won't work which is quite the roll of the dice in a boss fight. If it doesn't work I know I then have to work 3 times as hard to stay alive and still win.

I have been waiting for Update 3 to respec out of it however into SC for PvP purposes so I can only hope this will be fixed tomorrow.

Eekshnerf wrote: »
I think the issue here is that most people want to play their Nightblades as the guys who wade into combat and melt faces without ever having an issue. People also seem to think that an assassin is someone who can kill whoever they want.

I just read this post above me and grabbed the quote to also comment on it.......

As I NB I DO expect to at least melt the face of the one person I am fighting against but you know what happens more often than not? They break my stun, throw up block, almost completely negating my attacks, and then wait a couple secs for their buddies to show up and gang melt MY face instead.

Even a prepared Sorc seems to be able to melt my face faster than I can melt theirs which I don't quite get. Sorc should be at a decided DISadvantage in a melee situation but not from my experience.

So my role in PvP most of the time is to either be the stopper or finisher. I either TS to them and halt them for that 1-2 secs so my group can catch up and quickly nuke them down or to do just enough burst damage to insta kill that injured player trying to escape.

I have had my one on one victories, don't get me wrong, but those are usually due to my opponent not knowing what they were doing and/or being lower VR than myself.

Cody · August 2014

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Delte wrote: »

I play a Nightblade post 50 now and stealth works fine. Yes there is a few bugs, but shadowy disguise works as intended.

Sorry but no it does NOT work as intended. I currently run SD and even in PvE I will pop it only to have me pop back out of stealth a split second later. The mob did not apply a DoT or anything else to me. It's very hit or miss and I never know when it will or won't work which is quite the roll of the dice in a boss fight. If it doesn't work I know I then have to work 3 times as hard to stay alive and still win.

I have been waiting for Update 3 to respec out of it however into SC for PvP purposes so I can only hope this will be fixed tomorrow.

Eekshnerf wrote: »
I think the issue here is that most people want to play their Nightblades as the guys who wade into combat and melt faces without ever having an issue. People also seem to think that an assassin is someone who can kill whoever they want.

I just read this post above me and grabbed the quote to also comment on it.......

As I NB I DO expect to at least melt the face of the one person I am fighting against but you know what happens more often than not? They break my stun, throw up block, almost completely negating my attacks, and then wait a couple secs for their buddies to show up and gang melt MY face instead.

Even a prepared Sorc seems to be able to melt my face faster than I can melt theirs which I don't quite get. Sorc should be at a decided DISadvantage in a melee situation but not from my experience.

So my role in PvP most of the time is to either be the stopper or finisher. I either TS to them and halt them for that 1-2 secs so my group can catch up and quickly nuke them down or to do just enough burst damage to insta kill that injured player trying to escape.

I have had my one on one victories, don't get me wrong, but those are usually due to my opponent not knowing what they were doing and/or being lower VR than myself.

that's your role pretty much yeah:( if the player breaks your stun, you better be prepared to pummel them, or you will die. this will be made worse when they add in making you immune to CCs for 8 seconds when you break one. Its pretty frustrating to jump someone, get their health down to the last 10% or so, only for them to get up, instantly heal most of the damage you caused, then just block all of your stuff, and kill you. happens ALOT.

They could at least let hits to the back go thru blocks. It makes no sense for someone with a staff to be able to block in a full circle around themselves. would make our lives a little easier, without making us OP.

pitdemon_ESO · August 2014

NookyZooky wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Delte wrote: »

I play a Nightblade post 50 now and stealth works fine. Yes there is a few bugs, but shadowy disguise works as intended.

Sorry but no it does NOT work as intended. I currently run SD and even in PvE I will pop it only to have me pop back out of stealth a split second later. The mob did not apply a DoT or anything else to me. It's very hit or miss and I never know when it will or won't work which is quite the roll of the dice in a boss fight. If it doesn't work I know I then have to work 3 times as hard to stay alive and still win.

I have been waiting for Update 3 to respec out of it however into SC for PvP purposes so I can only hope this will be fixed tomorrow.

Eekshnerf wrote: »
I think the issue here is that most people want to play their Nightblades as the guys who wade into combat and melt faces without ever having an issue. People also seem to think that an assassin is someone who can kill whoever they want.

I just read this post above me and grabbed the quote to also comment on it.......

As I NB I DO expect to at least melt the face of the one person I am fighting against but you know what happens more often than not? They break my stun, throw up block, almost completely negating my attacks, and then wait a couple secs for their buddies to show up and gang melt MY face instead.

Even a prepared Sorc seems to be able to melt my face faster than I can melt theirs which I don't quite get. Sorc should be at a decided DISadvantage in a melee situation but not from my experience.

So my role in PvP most of the time is to either be the stopper or finisher. I either TS to them and halt them for that 1-2 secs so my group can catch up and quickly nuke them down or to do just enough burst damage to insta kill that injured player trying to escape.

I have had my one on one victories, don't get me wrong, but those are usually due to my opponent not knowing what they were doing and/or being lower VR than myself.

that's your role pretty much yeah:( if the player breaks your stun, you better be prepared to pummel them, or you will die. this will be made worse when they add in making you immune to CCs for 8 seconds when you break one. Its pretty frustrating to jump someone, get their health down to the last 10% or so, only for them to get up, instantly heal most of the damage you caused, then just block all of your stuff, and kill you. happens ALOT.

They could at least let hits to the back go thru blocks. It makes no sense for someone with a staff to be able to block in a full circle around themselves. would make our lives a little easier, without making us OP.

Ironically Shades are one of the best abilities to use once it becomes a standup fight vs a DK or Templar. They hit for 40% of your base light attack and debuff their damage by 15%. Resto staff with Rapid Regen, Swallow Soul, and Shadow Image will do enough damage to keep them defensive while allowing you to remain high health.

Then just swap back to your main bar after they blow through their mana and unload on them. Works (most) every time

HairyFairy · August 2014

Well, I've stopped using the cloak for now. Until i see a fix for it, I'm going to learn to play without it. And actually, it hasn't been bad without it. Good luck to you all!

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Sometimes when I cloak in a fight I don't even disappear. Not for a second. Just doesn't happen. Either something knocks me out prior to the animation or I'm not cloaking at all.

It lasts 2.4 seconds, yes we should be able to cloak out of combat with it in almost any situation.

It costs a lot of magicka already, you absolutely have to have leeching strikes up if you want to spam it.

taking damage, damaging people with dots (as in after the initial attack) and inner light shouldn't reveal you. You should still take damage in the damage situations, of course.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · August 2014

Invis skills for NB are a mess and have been since the start.. But hey we are nightblades and that means the devs want us to be rubbish... according to how rubbish our class is at least..

Probitas · August 2014

HairyFairy wrote: »

Exactly. there are potions, and mage lights, and everythign else against a nightblades abilities...What can we use against you? Yes these things are meant as a whole, due to everyone being able to go into sneak, but nightblades main ability is cloak, and we can't utilize it correctly because of everything else put into place to detect

Wait a moment, the game allows someone to proc an ability that makes them invis (or misty, whatever) still attack and remain this way? That is way wrong. No game I've EVER played allowed that, it was considered game breaking OP.

No wonder people are complaining vamps are OP. What with all the spells and colors flashing around, no wonder you can't see someones misty form when they move around. But I can always see someone that comes out of stealth because they can't ever go back into it once combat starts. They have to actually leave the area and be left alone to be able to stealth again.

I get that it's 'supernatural', but still, that sort of ownage is best left in the realm of mobs, and not in a players hands. Players will always abuse such power. It's in their natures.

thewisguyub17_ESO · August 2014

Alphashado wrote: »

I mean seriously. Which is it? One guy says NBs are amazing in pvp and the next guy says they suck. You guys are making me dizzy. I'll have to lvl mine up more and decide for myself.

I suspect it's a matter of build and technique. And just like my ex GF.....average looking but magnificent none the less.

I get what you are saying, and I agree. I've been playing a lot more PvP since the recent patch, and I do enjoy my NB quite a lot.
My issues with detection and invisibility mitigation/cancellation comes from the standpoint of: Cloaking (again, here I mean the NB ability and its morphs, not crouch-stealth) is a core mechanic that, if utilized, should be more consistent and harder to utterly nullify.
I am not lobbying for anything like crouching being able to bypass blocking, or that the efficiency of Cloaking should be nigh unstoppable. In fact , I know this is a "balance" issue, not a "please buff NB's" issue, and for the sake of balance, I would fully okay with a decrease Cloaking's inherent power in favor of more consistency.
I don't want cloaking to be an "I win" button, but I would like to know that, generally speaking, it is going to work to some measurable extent when I use it. Currently there are far too many circumstances where it is a waste of magicka and a skill-slot, and I don't think that should be the case for any class's core mechanic.