An open letter

Redlag · August 2014

I know you have to create raids and guild content. I'm not trying to be selfish. I was wondering if you could created some content that encourages meeting new people. I know that the genre has changed towards applying on my elite guild site, but as some lowly scrub of a human that isn't good enough to apply on everyone's guild website.. I was just kind of wondering if you could create some old school content.

Like, this genre is depressing me. Do you remember the content that you use to create? I could go into a dungeon and kill everything by the door, but if I wanted to go further I would have to group with new people? I met so many people in that system. People that were doing the same things as me. They became my guildies.

Do you think WoW and raids are more advanced than the content that you've already created (in previous games) ? I Don't. I like you. I believe connecting with others and sharing an experience is far beyond this new system that you all cater to.

I know that you can't turn your back on WoW raiders, [snip] them imo, but you have to cater. You have to apply to everyone to meet your goals.

What if you did something unigue, but's its really old, and better.. What if you created this *** raid grind crap for the new genre, but like other games create hard modes, but instead you created PUBLIC modes of the same instance as simple as DAOC dungeons that allow players to experience content and meet new people to group with, and then like in DAOC, they all decide to go further in the dungeon together as a group.

Im telling you, as an old school gamer. Im missing some of the natural functions that you use to supply me with. Im also telling you. If you stand true to your roots, who you are and what you've created, MATT FIROR, players will enjoy your games. You don't have to copy WoW.

And last but not least. I thought trials of Atlantis was unique and ahead of its time, If it weren't for the PvP skills added for completing them, back then, but I think would be accepted now. Matt Firor TOA was ahead of it's time, please reliaze that you were a genius with it. Im begging you. Implement that bad ass *** now.. Today.. Its ahead of it's time. I swear. It beats raiding any day of the week. I swear it was ahead of its time and only ran everyone off because of the SKILLS its gave affected PvP.. I swear otherwise. You were ahead of your time and games would be copying you. I swear, Go with what you know and *** on WoW..

THE END..

I hope you listened a little.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

jockjammerb16_ESO · August 2014

What previous games?

tino.antoninieb17_ESO · August 2014

I used to be hard core wow pve player. I had something like 1,5 k dungeons in wow. When i compare wow and eso dungeons i will say that i would go rather with eso dungeons but in same time i would rather play wow dungeons. Eso dungeons are more adventures while wow dungeons are more like accomplisment. I thnk that back bone of eso dungeons is better and with small
changes they could be much more apeeling and have greater replay value. Devil is in details so : loot, damage meters, lightning ( spot should be on bosses ), 5/4 players, more interesting boss mechanics, more bosses, better group finder, more xp so people get used in early stage of their game. Maybe it sounds that lot of things should be changed/improved but actually its small tweeks and different philosophy. Eso dungeons should feel more epic and rewarding. Same goes with raids .

KhajitFurTrader · August 2014

Last time I looked, his last name was still "Firor".

Sotha_Sil · August 2014

Redlag wrote: »

I know you have to create raids and guild content. I'm not trying to be selfish. I was wondering if you could created some content that encourages meeting new people. I know that the genre has changed towards applying on my elite guild site, but as some lowly scrub of a human that isn't good enough to apply on everyone's guild website.. I was just kind of wondering if you could create some old school content.

Like, this genre is depressing me. Do you remember the content that you use to create? I could go into a dungeon and kill everything by the door, but if I wanted to go further I would have to group with new people? I met so many people in that system. People that were doing the same things as me. They became my guildies.

Do you think WoW and raids are more advanced than the content that you've already created (in previous games) ? I Don't. I like you. I believe connecting with others and sharing an experience is far beyond this new system that you all cater to.

I know that you can't turn your back on WoW raiders, [snip] them imo, but you have to cater. You have to apply to everyone to meet your goals.

What if you did something unigue, but's its really old, and better.. What if you created this *** raid grind crap for the new genre, but like other games create hard modes, but instead you created PUBLIC modes of the same instance as simple as DAOC dungeons that allow players to experience content and meet new people to group with, and then like in DAOC, they all decide to go further in the dungeon together as a group.

Im telling you, as an old school gamer. Im missing some of the natural functions that you use to supply me with. Im also telling you. If you stand true to your roots, who you are and what you've created, MATT FIROR, players will enjoy your games. You don't have to copy WoW.

And last but not least. I thought trials of Atlantis was unique and ahead of its time, If it weren't for the PvP skills added for completing them, back then, but I think would be accepted now. Matt Firor TOA was ahead of it's time, please reliaze that you were a genius with it. Im begging you. Implement that bad ass *** now.. Today.. Its ahead of it's time. I swear. It beats raiding any day of the week. I swear it was ahead of its time and only ran everyone off because of the SKILLS its gave affected PvP.. I swear otherwise. You were ahead of your time and games would be copying you. I swear, Go with what you know and *** on WoW..

THE END..

I hope you listened a little.

What ? reading this was really painful so for future readers :

TL;DR
So you are saying that 12-man raid doesn't encourage meeting new people and instead you suggest to create public instances where at some point you need to make a party to proceed.

Well you know craglorn is actually like this. It's a public zone. And if you want to go to trials you need to gather up.

No need to cry a river about it. Another useless thread.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Phinix1 · August 2014

DO NOT WANT.

People in general today have become more selfish, materialistic, and shallow. Mostly due to all the artificial "relationships" foisted on them by the social network advertising and cell phone sales agenda.

Everything is always me me me, like Agent Smith in the Matrix. Having to rely on others for anything simply doesn't work the way it did in the past, and I for one would rather not have to put up with the immaturity, the selfishness, the drama, and the frustration of being forced to rely on others in an online game.

If developers can't find ways of rewarding group play while not requiring it, then I would prefer they just stick to balancing everything for solo play and leave the teamwork elements to dungeons, raids, and PVP.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

I think what you all are pining for is craglorn dungeons. Check them out. With the group finder as crappy as it is, gl getting a group for them.

If you are AD and decide to and want some dps, hit me up, @smeeprocket on NA. If I am free I will go join you and die repeatedly... er beat the dungeon.

jeevin · August 2014

Like others have said, there is content to encourage or require grouping. The issue is that a lot of the players just aren't interested.

Razour · August 2014

Every day in every zone I see people looking to group - grinding in Craglorn, boss/anchor/dungeon runs on every map, PvP zergs.

Sometimes I solo, sometimes I join these ad-hoc groups, sometimes I'll build an ad-hoc group; sometimes I run with guildies - all just depends on what I feel like doing.

Sure, some of the grouping functionality is a bit clunky but fundamentally there is nothing stopping you from grouping.

EDIT: and yes, I agree with other contributors in this thread - if there is an issue it is maybe more the reluctance of some players to group up. The recent nerf to mob difficulty is something of a double edged sword with respect to that:
- on the one hand it has maybe helped with population numbers;
- on the other it has reduced the need for people to group as most maps can be solo'd now.

Redlag · August 2014

tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »

I used to be hard core wow pve player. I had something like 1,5 k dungeons in wow. When i compare wow and eso dungeons i will say that i would go rather with eso dungeons but in same time i would rather play wow dungeons. Eso dungeons are more adventures while wow dungeons are more like accomplisment. I thnk that back bone of eso dungeons is better and with small
changes they could be much more apeeling and have greater replay value. Devil is in details so : loot, damage meters, lightning ( spot should be on bosses ), 5/4 players, more interesting boss mechanics, more bosses, better group finder, more xp so people get used in early stage of their game. Maybe it sounds that lot of things should be changed/improved but actually its small tweeks and different philosophy. Eso dungeons should feel more epic and rewarding. Same goes with raids .

My point is against group finders. I'm referring to an old school type of dungeon that is a guild finder, so to speak. It means I'm in this dungeon having fun. In order to progress I have two options. 1) I level up enough that I can complete it on my own or 2) I keep bumping into you doing the same thing as me and we keep grouping up with each other in order to progress further. Eventually you and me realize we group a lot and decide to form a guild or either one of us invite the other to our guilds.. A) because we do the same thing and bump into each other a lot or

I can see you're a very good player that knows how to play.

It's entirely against the model that I have never met or played with you. I just know your guild is so elite I want to apply to you guild on a website. It's an old school model that we know each other and you want me in your guild because you can tell that I am good.

I'm gonna tell you all. I'm a very good player that knows what I'm doing, but I am never gonna come on your guild website and ask for a guild invite. I know I'm good, as many players do. I do not apply. Your guild needs me. I'm an asset to your guild. All the replies in my thread do not understand what Im referring too because you've never played a game before WoW.

Here's some ***.. Back in my DAoC days I've joined guilds that say, Hoorah, YaY!! when I join them.. People say, Holy *** Mantus joined us. I was the 3rd Wizard to hit 50 on Merlin DAoC. I've grouped with enemies on other realms that told me stories .. OMG! It's Mantus you scared me. All I've seen is your death spam (In DAoC PvP when a player killed someone it spammed it to each realm... like Mantus killed so and so it would have my name spam down your screen and you knew to fear my name because I was just better than you) I was invited to guilds. Applying, [snip] , I don't apply. Im better than most of your members. I am not applying to your guild. You want me. I will never apply to a guild. Because Im better than your entire guild. Applying is belittling to me. If these games were made right you would already know Im better than you. You would invite me. I wont go to your website because youre [snip], trying to make me apply.

Im asking for an old school system where you would already know this because all your guild members have been In an instance with me and seen that Im beyond them, Dude I will never go tour guild website and apply. Im [snip] better than everyone in your [snip] guild. You're scrubs to me, In asking Matt to open the real world to alleviate all of your Delusions and give the real gamer a home.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Anastasia · August 2014

Redlag wrote: »

I know you have to create raids and guild content. I'm not trying to be selfish. I was wondering if you could created some content that encourages meeting new people. I know that the genre has changed towards applying on my elite guild site, but as some lowly scrub of a human that isn't good enough to apply on everyone's guild website.. I was just kind of wondering if you could create some old school content.

Like, this genre is depressing me. Do you remember the content that you use to create? I could go into a dungeon and kill everything by the door, but if I wanted to go further I would have to group with new people? I met so many people in that system. People that were doing the same things as me. They became my guildies.

Do you think WoW and raids are more advanced than the content that you've already created (in previous games) ? I Don't. I like you. I believe connecting with others and sharing an experience is far beyond this new system that you all cater to.

I know that you can't turn your back on WoW raiders, [snip] them imo, but you have to cater. You have to apply to everyone to meet your goals.

What if you did something unigue, but's its really old, and better.. What if you created this *** raid grind crap for the new genre, but like other games create hard modes, but instead you created PUBLIC modes of the same instance as simple as DAOC dungeons that allow players to experience content and meet new people to group with, and then like in DAOC, they all decide to go further in the dungeon together as a group.

Im telling you, as an old school gamer. Im missing some of the natural functions that you use to supply me with. Im also telling you. If you stand true to your roots, who you are and what you've created, MATT FIROR, players will enjoy your games. You don't have to copy WoW.

And last but not least. I thought trials of Atlantis was unique and ahead of its time, If it weren't for the PvP skills added for completing them, back then, but I think would be accepted now. Matt Firor TOA was ahead of it's time, please reliaze that you were a genius with it. Im begging you. Implement that bad ass *** now.. Today.. Its ahead of it's time. I swear. It beats raiding any day of the week. I swear it was ahead of its time and only ran everyone off because of the SKILLS its gave affected PvP.. I swear otherwise. You were ahead of your time and games would be copying you. I swear, Go with what you know and *** on WoW..

THE END..

I hope you listened a little.

Salute Redlag, *Salute*; nods with respect.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

MongooseOne · August 2014

A Legend walks among us...

Anastasia · August 2014

MongooseOne wrote: »

A Legend walks among us...

Karma >>>>for dis's.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Redlag wrote: »

tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »

I used to be hard core wow pve player. I had something like 1,5 k dungeons in wow. When i compare wow and eso dungeons i will say that i would go rather with eso dungeons but in same time i would rather play wow dungeons. Eso dungeons are more adventures while wow dungeons are more like accomplisment. I thnk that back bone of eso dungeons is better and with small
changes they could be much more apeeling and have greater replay value. Devil is in details so : loot, damage meters, lightning ( spot should be on bosses ), 5/4 players, more interesting boss mechanics, more bosses, better group finder, more xp so people get used in early stage of their game. Maybe it sounds that lot of things should be changed/improved but actually its small tweeks and different philosophy. Eso dungeons should feel more epic and rewarding. Same goes with raids .

My point is against group finders. I'm referring to an old school type of dungeon that is a guild finder, so to speak. It means I'm in this dungeon having fun. In order to progress I have two options. 1) I level up enough that I can complete it on my own or 2) I keep bumping into you doing the same thing as me and we keep grouping up with each other in order to progress further. Eventually you and me realize we group a lot and decide to form a guild or either one of us invite the other to our guilds.. A) because we do the same thing and bump into each other a lot or I can see you're a very good player that knows how to play.

It's entirely against the model that I have never met or played with you. I just know your guild is so elite I want to apply to you guild on a website. It's an old school model that we know each other and you want me in your guild because you can tell that I am good.

I'm gonna tell you all. I'm a very good player that knows what I'm doing, but I am never gonna come on your guild website and ask for a guild invite. I know I'm good, as many players do. I do not apply. Your guild needs me. I'm an asset to your guild. All the replies in my thread do not understand what Im referring too because you've never played a game before WoW.

Here's some ***.. Back in my DAoC days I've joined guilds that say, Hoorah, YaY!! when I join them.. People say, Holy *** Mantus joined us. I was the 3rd Wizard to hit 50 on Merlin DAoC. I've grouped with enemies on other realms that told me stories .. OMG! It's Mantus you scared me. All I've seen is your death spam (In DAoC PvP when a player killed someone it spammed it to each realm... like Mantus killed so and so it would have my name spam down your screen and you knew to fear my name because I was just better than you) I was invited to guilds. Applying, [snip] , I don't apply. Im better than most of your members. I am not applying to your guild. You want me. I will never apply to a guild. Because Im better than your entire guild. Applying is belittling to me. If these games were made right you would already know Im better than you. You would invite me. I wont go to your website because youre [snip], trying to make me apply.

Im asking for an old school system where you would already know this because all your guild members have been In an instance with me and seen that Im beyond them, Dude I will never go tour guild website and apply. Im F'ing[snip] better than everyone in your [snip] guild. You're scrubs to me, In asking Matt to open the real world to alleviate all of your Delusions and give the real gamer a home.

You are, regardless of skill, replaceable to most guilds. If you feel you are too good to fill out an app, that might be something the guild needs to learn about.

That time has passed, there are a lot more gamers now and getting a website is easier, and most people are at least competent enough to fill the appropriate role.

Was DAoC before WoW? I played UO and then EQ, and only ever really noticed AO, then WoW came along and pulled the carpet out from under EQ. I could swear DAoC was after WoW though...

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

MercyKilling · August 2014

Razour wrote: »

Every day in every zone I see people looking to group - grinding in Craglorn, boss/anchor/dungeon runs on every map, PvP zergs.

Sometimes I solo, sometimes I join these ad-hoc groups, sometimes I'll build an ad-hoc group; sometimes I run with guildies - all just depends on what I feel like doing.

Sure, some of the grouping functionality is a bit clunky but fundamentally there is nothing stopping you from grouping.

EDIT: and yes, I agree with other contributors in this thread - if there is an issue it is maybe more the reluctance of some players to group up. The recent nerf to mob difficulty is something of a double edged sword with respect to that:
- on the one hand it has maybe helped with population numbers;
- on the other it has reduced the need for people to group as most maps can be solo'd now.

The few times I've asked in zone for people to come help with something I can't do alone....I'm told "just solo it." To which I reply, "If I could solo it, do you think I'd be asking for help?" to which the reply is "Suck less."

Why would I WANT to group with people like that?

Redlag · August 2014

jockjammerb16_ESO wrote: »

What previous games?

DAoC, incase youre just learning. Matt created awesome content in PREVIOUS GAMES.

Redlag · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Redlag wrote: »

tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »

I used to be hard core wow pve player. I had something like 1,5 k dungeons in wow. When i compare wow and eso dungeons i will say that i would go rather with eso dungeons but in same time i would rather play wow dungeons. Eso dungeons are more adventures while wow dungeons are more like accomplisment. I thnk that back bone of eso dungeons is better and with small
changes they could be much more apeeling and have greater replay value. Devil is in details so : loot, damage meters, lightning ( spot should be on bosses ), 5/4 players, more interesting boss mechanics, more bosses, better group finder, more xp so people get used in early stage of their game. Maybe it sounds that lot of things should be changed/improved but actually its small tweeks and different philosophy. Eso dungeons should feel more epic and rewarding. Same goes with raids .

My point is against group finders. I'm referring to an old school type of dungeon that is a guild finder, so to speak. It means I'm in this dungeon having fun. In order to progress I have two options. 1) I level up enough that I can complete it on my own or 2) I keep bumping into you doing the same thing as me and we keep grouping up with each other in order to progress further. Eventually you and me realize we group a lot and decide to form a guild or either one of us invite the other to our guilds.. A) because we do the same thing and bump into each other a lot or I can see you're a very good player that knows how to play.

It's entirely against the model that I have never met or played with you. I just know your guild is so elite I want to apply to you guild on a website. It's an old school model that we know each other and you want me in your guild because you can tell that I am good.

I'm gonna tell you all. I'm a very good player that knows what I'm doing, but I am never gonna come on your guild website and ask for a guild invite. I know I'm good, as many players do. I do not apply. Your guild needs me. I'm an asset to your guild. All the replies in my thread do not understand what Im referring too because you've never played a game before WoW.

Here's some ***.. Back in my DAoC days I've joined guilds that say, Hoorah, YaY!! when I join them.. People say, Holy *** Mantus joined us. I was the 3rd Wizard to hit 50 on Merlin DAoC. I've grouped with enemies on other realms that told me stories .. OMG! It's Mantus you scared me. All I've seen is your death spam (In DAoC PvP when a player killed someone it spammed it to each realm... like Mantus killed so and so it would have my name spam down your screen and you knew to fear my name because I was just better than you) I was invited to guilds. Applying, f u , I don't apply. Im better than most of your members. I am not applying to your guild. You want me. I will never apply to a guild. Because Im better than your entire guild. Applying is belittling to me. If these games were made right you would already know Im better than you. You would invite me. I wont go to your website because youre horseshit, trying to make me apply.

Im asking for an old school system where you would already know this because all your guild members have been In an instance with me and seen that Im beyond them, Dude I will never go tour guild website and apply. Im F'ing better than everyone in your F'ing guild. You're scrubs to me, In asking Matt to open the real world to alleviate all of your Delusions and give the real gamer a home.

You are, regardless of skill, replaceable to most guilds. If you feel you are too good to fill out an app, that might be something the guild needs to learn about.

That time has passed, there are a lot more gamers now and getting a website is easier, and most people are at least competent enough to fill the appropriate role.

Was DAoC before WoW? I played UO and then EQ, and only ever really noticed AO, then WoW came along and pulled the carpet out from under EQ. I could swear DAoC was after WoW though...

I can hardly believe you played UO. You're talking about being replaceable in a guild in a MOTHER *** HOBBY! That's the problem right there. *** universe.

Tandor · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Was DAoC before WoW?

There wasn't any online gaming before WoW, the whole genre was invented by Blizzard - I thought everyone knew that, but some disillusioned souls still harbour the belief that there were some MMOs before WoW, and they believe that DAoC was indeed one of them.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Redlag wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Redlag wrote: »

tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »

I used to be hard core wow pve player. I had something like 1,5 k dungeons in wow. When i compare wow and eso dungeons i will say that i would go rather with eso dungeons but in same time i would rather play wow dungeons. Eso dungeons are more adventures while wow dungeons are more like accomplisment. I thnk that back bone of eso dungeons is better and with small
changes they could be much more apeeling and have greater replay value. Devil is in details so : loot, damage meters, lightning ( spot should be on bosses ), 5/4 players, more interesting boss mechanics, more bosses, better group finder, more xp so people get used in early stage of their game. Maybe it sounds that lot of things should be changed/improved but actually its small tweeks and different philosophy. Eso dungeons should feel more epic and rewarding. Same goes with raids .

My point is against group finders. I'm referring to an old school type of dungeon that is a guild finder, so to speak. It means I'm in this dungeon having fun. In order to progress I have two options. 1) I level up enough that I can complete it on my own or 2) I keep bumping into you doing the same thing as me and we keep grouping up with each other in order to progress further. Eventually you and me realize we group a lot and decide to form a guild or either one of us invite the other to our guilds.. A) because we do the same thing and bump into each other a lot or I can see you're a very good player that knows how to play.

It's entirely against the model that I have never met or played with you. I just know your guild is so elite I want to apply to you guild on a website. It's an old school model that we know each other and you want me in your guild because you can tell that I am good.

I'm gonna tell you all. I'm a very good player that knows what I'm doing, but I am never gonna come on your guild website and ask for a guild invite. I know I'm good, as many players do. I do not apply. Your guild needs me. I'm an asset to your guild. All the replies in my thread do not understand what Im referring too because you've never played a game before WoW.

Here's some ***.. Back in my DAoC days I've joined guilds that say, Hoorah, YaY!! when I join them.. People say, Holy *** Mantus joined us. I was the 3rd Wizard to hit 50 on Merlin DAoC. I've grouped with enemies on other realms that told me stories .. OMG! It's Mantus you scared me. All I've seen is your death spam (In DAoC PvP when a player killed someone it spammed it to each realm... like Mantus killed so and so it would have my name spam down your screen and you knew to fear my name because I was just better than you) I was invited to guilds. Applying, f u , I don't apply. Im better than most of your members. I am not applying to your guild. You want me. I will never apply to a guild. Because Im better than your entire guild. Applying is belittling to me. If these games were made right you would already know Im better than you. You would invite me. I wont go to your website because youre horseshit, trying to make me apply.

Im asking for an old school system where you would already know this because all your guild members have been In an instance with me and seen that Im beyond them, Dude I will never go tour guild website and apply. Im F'ing better than everyone in your F'ing guild. You're scrubs to me, In asking Matt to open the real world to alleviate all of your Delusions and give the real gamer a home.

You are, regardless of skill, replaceable to most guilds. If you feel you are too good to fill out an app, that might be something the guild needs to learn about.

That time has passed, there are a lot more gamers now and getting a website is easier, and most people are at least competent enough to fill the appropriate role.

Was DAoC before WoW? I played UO and then EQ, and only ever really noticed AO, then WoW came along and pulled the carpet out from under EQ. I could swear DAoC was after WoW though...

I can hardly believe you played UO. You're talking about being replaceable in a guild in a MOTHER *** HOBBY! That's the problem right there. *** universe.

I have no idea why that resulted in you rage capsing out.

And what does any of that have to do with whether or not I played on UO?

Redlag · August 2014

MercyKilling wrote: »

Razour wrote: »

Every day in every zone I see people looking to group - grinding in Craglorn, boss/anchor/dungeon runs on every map, PvP zergs.

Sometimes I solo, sometimes I join these ad-hoc groups, sometimes I'll build an ad-hoc group; sometimes I run with guildies - all just depends on what I feel like doing.

Sure, some of the grouping functionality is a bit clunky but fundamentally there is nothing stopping you from grouping.

EDIT: and yes, I agree with other contributors in this thread - if there is an issue it is maybe more the reluctance of some players to group up. The recent nerf to mob difficulty is something of a double edged sword with respect to that:
- on the one hand it has maybe helped with population numbers;
- on the other it has reduced the need for people to group as most maps can be solo'd now.

The few times I've asked in zone for people to come help with something I can't do alone....I'm told "just solo it." To which I reply, "If I could solo it, do you think I'd be asking for help?" to which the reply is "Suck less."

Why would I WANT to group with people like that?

I wasn't awesome either. I didn't have the perfect build. Its aggravating and hellish to falter on content that you know if you had help with you cold just bypass so easily.

I preach rainbow farts and special cherries, but there was a time in mmo history that people would come and help you. Without making you out to be the worst player in mmo history. I tell you this friend. The way the game is made dictates personalities. In an RVR AVA game in Lore and yore past they wouldn't dare put you down when they know they need your help. That's the [snip] of today, a guild can play elitist. When in before they needed you cooperation to take a keep. They use to rely on you, as the average player, and use to have to treat you with respect to get anything done. I say [snip] you mmo maker. Youre a drag downhill ugly bother.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

traigusb14_ESO2 · August 2014

Megaserver technology does hurt the ability to have a server rep.

If you don't friend /guild someone right away you may never see them again... ever.

PVP campaigns are a little better, and there are some usual suspects on Wabbajack for example. I have even fought several people a bunch of times and had rematches.

With so many guilds coming from other games and not really taking new people, you don't get a lot of quality guilds looking for new blood if your guild isn't in ESO.

- You can join a zone spam guild... meh. 500 random people...

- You can hit guild forum section and websites, but still won't know if you fit well.

There is little opportunity to just pick-up play with people and find a guild, especially with group size being 4.

I'm not talking about trials and epeen stuff either.

This is an actual issue with the game design.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Redlag wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

Razour wrote: »

Every day in every zone I see people looking to group - grinding in Craglorn, boss/anchor/dungeon runs on every map, PvP zergs.

Sometimes I solo, sometimes I join these ad-hoc groups, sometimes I'll build an ad-hoc group; sometimes I run with guildies - all just depends on what I feel like doing.

Sure, some of the grouping functionality is a bit clunky but fundamentally there is nothing stopping you from grouping.

EDIT: and yes, I agree with other contributors in this thread - if there is an issue it is maybe more the reluctance of some players to group up. The recent nerf to mob difficulty is something of a double edged sword with respect to that:
- on the one hand it has maybe helped with population numbers;
- on the other it has reduced the need for people to group as most maps can be solo'd now.

The few times I've asked in zone for people to come help with something I can't do alone....I'm told "just solo it." To which I reply, "If I could solo it, do you think I'd be asking for help?" to which the reply is "Suck less."

Why would I WANT to group with people like that?

I wasn't awesome either. I didn't have the perfect build. Its aggravating and hellish to falter on content that you know if you had help with you cold just bypass so easily.

I preach rainbow farts and special cherries, but there was a time in mmo history that people would come and help you. Without making you out to be the worst player in mmo history. I tell you this friend. The way the game is made dictates personalities. In an RVR AVA game in Lore and yore past they wouldn't dare put you down when they know they need your help. That's the bullSHT of today, a guild can play elitist. When in before they needed you cooperation to take a keep. They use to rely on you, as the average player, and use to have to treat you with respect to get anything done. I say *** you mmo maker. Youre a drag downhill ugly bother.

back in the day we were all teenagers and cared about our reps online, possibly because we had few or no friends in real life, because if you were a gamer in the 90s you probably didn't have real friends.

I'm not justifying the behavior btw, tho tbh, I have some misanthropy towards my fellow gamers. You run into enough bad ones and you stop wanting to help out strangers.

KhajitFurTrader · August 2014

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

This is an actual issue with the game design.

Pray tell, how can it be an issue of game design if people nowadays don't possess, or don't want to apply, social skills anymore? So should all games of today now strife to only cater to the socially inept, like Farmville and Clash of Clans are doing?

Oh yeah, I just went there... :P

Xeres14 · August 2014

So I'm sitting here trying to decipher the OPs first post, and rather inane babbling of his or her second. I think I get what the OP is looking for and I think there's room for both types of instances or dungeons or whatever you want to call them.

But for ESO to ignore the success WoW has had is just stupid. No, it's not the only way to do things but it is successful.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Xeres14 wrote: »

So I'm sitting here trying to decipher the OPs first post, and rather inane babbling of his or her second. I think I get what the OP is looking for and I think there's room for both types of instances or dungeons or whatever you want to call them.

But for ESO to ignore the success WoW has had is just stupid. No, it's not the only way to do things but it is successful.

it should most definitely be ignored. ESO currently appeals to a much more niche audience and the dumbing down, designs that actually lead to griefing, and just ... pandas! that WoW offers may be successful but would drive the bulk of ESO's audience away.

Xeres14 · August 2014

Well I meant in terms of end game content. ESO shouldn't be a WoW clone but they can incorporate some of the things WoW did in end game. As WoW did with EQ.

KhajitFurTrader · August 2014

Xeres14 wrote: »

But for ESO to ignore the success WoW has had is just stupid. No, it's not the only way to do things but it is successful.

So, from this can be deducted that in order to be successful as WoW, a game of today has to, or should strife to be, like WoW?

kieso · August 2014

Tandor wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Was DAoC before WoW?

There wasn't any online gaming before WoW, the whole genre was invented by Blizzard - I thought everyone knew that, but some disillusioned souls still harbour the belief that there were some MMOs before WoW, and they believe that DAoC was indeed one of them.

WOW WAS THE 1ST MMO!

traigusb14_ESO2 · August 2014

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

This is an actual issue with the game design.

Pray tell, how can it be an issue of game design if people nowadays don't possess, or don't want to apply, social skills anymore? So should all games of today now strife to only cater to the socially inept, like Farmville and Clash of Clans are doing?

Oh yeah, I just went there... :P

Megaserver separates people out unless you are already grouped with them (and can't always even stay in group if you pick different quest choices).

It is made worse by people basically retracting into guilds made 15 years ago, bad player behavior etc.

One of the good points of more standard server technology is players becoming familiar with each other (good and bad reps)...

In ESO if I am a level that is currently pretty common, or in a popular trading zone, I can go into a delve, then come out to be in a completely different zonechat.

I suppose it depends on if you think server sized communities are good or a bad thing.

It is just one more problem, added to all the other issues we have today with social interaction.

KhajitFurTrader · August 2014

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

Megaserver separates people out unless you are already grouped with them (and can't always even stay in group if you pick different quest choices).

It is made worse by people basically retracting into guilds made 15 years ago, bad player behavior etc.

One of the good points of more standard server technology is players becoming familiar with each other (good and bad reps)...

In ESO if I am a level that is currently pretty common, or in a popular trading zone, I can go into a delve, then come out to be in a completely different zonechat.

I suppose it depends on if you think server sized communities are good or a bad thing.

It is just one more problem, added to all the other issues we have today with social interaction.

Granted, the Megaserver technology, regardless how many advantages it may have, also has its flaws. A "shard", "realm" or "server", however you may call it, may help to build a sense of community, or even identity, not in the least due to its advertised "type" (e.g. PvE, PvP, RP, etc.), and default language. In other games, this sense has progressively been hollowed out by enabling cross server zones/arenas, server transfers, and/or merging servers together due to low population, but I guess customer convenience beats strict server separation every time.

I agree that due to (necessary) phasing and instancing, a sense of community on a Megaserver does feel rather arbitrary. I for one would have welcomed the usage of the announced player questionnaire and subsequent "placing in a fitting phase" feature, and was left quite baffled when it failed to materialize on early access/launch. AFAIR, an "official" explanation of its absence hasn't been given until now; I seem to remember reading somewhere that it has been scrapped due to taxing the server too much.

It's a shame, really. There are many non-English speakers on the EU server who feel quite inhibited on chatting up strangers, because they usually cannot know their nationality and command of the English language.

Tandor · August 2014

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Pray tell, how can it be an issue of game design if people nowadays don't possess, or don't want to apply, social skills anymore?

This illustrates one of the most misunderstood aspects of MMOs today.

People nowadays don't lack the desire to apply social skills, they just don't see the need for that to be centred around grouping for combat. Games today are very much quest/storyline-based and that in any event tends to mitigate against routine grouping a lot of the time. I think TESO mirrors SWTOR in that respect.

Where the game design does fall down in respect of socialising in my view, is in the provision of multiple guild membership which means that few guilds are likely to form any sort of community spirit among their members, as well as the lack of a public trading system - even the unofficial trading hub that was East Commonlands tunnel in EQ had more community spirit than a small number of players buying and selling within their own restricted trading guilds in TESO.