So if we ask about Stamina and weapons imbalance for long enough it will get addressed?

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

NookyZooky wrote: »

they can start by increasing the size of the passives in medium/heavy armor. what I mean by that, is simply make their effects bigger. instead of a pathetic 0.5% to weapon damage each piece, how about 2 or 3%? if LA passives let you ignore almost half of some ones spell resistance, then heavy armor can do something similar(medium as well) that's just an idea for a start. they should not make a gigantic change overnight, but they do need to speed it up a little. I don't want to have to wait for the game to have been out for almost a year for stamina builds to be optimal.

like that 0.5 % in healing for heavy lol ya thats worth it. im baffled how they launched. didnt the end game testers notice this stuff?

grimjim398 · July 2014

This thread is a demonstration of really high class thinking. Snarking about the developers is always a good way to get them to listen to your complaints. Presenting anecdotal evidence of the need for a change is another winner. The developers get crap from players all the time so guess what the best way to ask for a change is?

And when they tell you this kind of balance takes time, adding sarcasm and insults to the snark is really helpful. Suggestions: Spend the rest of this thread telling them they don't do their jobs, don't play their own game, and keep repeating the stuff about how much they like skirts. Those are really great ideas.

With this kind of advocacy, you can be sure that these problems will receive really urgent attention.

Evergnar · July 2014

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

I wonder if the problem is that the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood lines are already Stamina-based, and would solve part of the problem (at least would give Stamina builds an equal number of skills), but that the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood are still months away. So maybe they are stuck in a bind with part of the solution being too far away for them to implement now.

If that were the case it would be nice to know about. Really no reason not to let the community know. I think everone has been more than patient about it and if it is not going to change in the next few months give players the opportunity to play with other builds or alts. It will give us something to look forward to

badmojo · July 2014

grimjim398 wrote: »

This thread is a demonstration of really high class thinking. Snarking about the developers is always a good way to get them to listen to your complaints. Presenting anecdotal evidence of the need for a change is another winner. The developers get crap from players all the time so guess what the best way to ask for a change is?

And when they tell you this kind of balance takes time, adding sarcasm and insults to the snark is really helpful. Suggestions: Spend the rest of this thread telling them they don't do their jobs, don't play their own game, and keep repeating the stuff about how much they like skirts. Those are really great ideas.

With this kind of advocacy, you can be sure that these problems will receive really urgent attention.

It also seems to help if you assume the developers haven't responded to these complaints.

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO · July 2014

NookyZooky wrote: »

they can start by increasing the size of the passives in medium/heavy armor. what I mean by that, is simply make their effects bigger. instead of a pathetic 0.5% to weapon damage each piece, how about 2 or 3%? if LA passives let you ignore almost half of some ones spell resistance, then heavy armor can do something similar(medium as well) that's just an idea for a start. they should not make a gigantic change overnight, but they do need to speed it up a little. I don't want to have to wait for the game to have been out for almost a year for stamina builds to be optimal.

Exactly, this could allow heavy armor to be used by melee dps, not just tanks and it would focus the damage output of heavy on pure weapon damage rather than the crit focus offered my medium.

Arsenic_Touch · July 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

I dont know man when stacking up the quality and fucntion of Rift at launch the soul system and how quick they fixed things while adding content . It is widely agreed amongst MMO'rs even the ones who didnt realy care for rift. that team is pretty slick. It has several lead devs from differnt games in its ranks all AAA MMO vets.

Now im not claiming Rift was the best MMO but for a game that cost about 50 mil to make . Launched in a very very polished state with 1 raid and some great 5 man content that was actually itemized and not random world purples dropped in them or borken sets that no one uses because you can craft better in 90 seconds. the bugs in rift were minimal , it suffered from the same imbalances ESO does. but by four months they dropped 2 more raids another raid 2 ten man raid , added a master mode dungeon. had the game pretty balanced. while holding Live in game events , true Dynamic content and retaining 70% of the subs of sales would suggest it was a success. Rifts meta critic still holds at 84% and at launch it was even higher.http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/rift

Now compared to ESO's rating http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/the-elder-scrolls-online
Well id say its pretty evident. who had a better launch product. hell man you still cant even invite people to group with out having to break the group several times to even get the grouping tool to work right. Come on now, dont blindly defend the team that is responsible for this. honestly they made a beautiful engine hands down way more impressive then Rift but these guys cant even use it correctly every patch breaks something more . the team is constantly re neging on things they said months ago and act like they never happened. Like VR dungeon scaling , Reitemizing them to Drop usable powerful gear . Or how about them saying the thieves guild and dark brotherhood would be in shortly after launch with craglorn.
in reality it looks like we are the ones being trolled by ZOS. Hell rift stayed Premium for 3 years i dont think ESO will make 12 months dude. They retained 750k subs world wide out of 2 mil in sales lol. Im not trolling its just facts.

The only person blindly defending something is you, you seem to think that Trion is the best thing since sliced bread and it's far from the case. If you even had an inkling of my post history you'd understand how laughable it is for you to claim I'm blindly defending ESO when I clearly said that I'm not saying they're doing good.

Also, using metacritic as your argument? haha... that's hilarious.

Also rift is the only game that trion makes? You're forgetting that they ran End of Nations into the ground once they got their hands on it. They completely screwed up with Defiance are are still screwing up with Defiance and completely fizzled out with Rift. Even when they're only localizing for ArcheAge, they're already getting their greedy little paws in it with the pay store and design changes.

Now for some actual facts.

Rift only stayed completely premium for a year.
Rift came out in march 2011.
They came out with Rift lite in February 2012.
With an indefinite free game with restrictions, that were unlocked with a subscription. With many free weeks and free day promotions that unlocked the entire game.

A year and a half later they went full free to play in June 2013 after swearing the weeks prior that they weren't and mass banning people for it, they continued to go downhill.

Now let's look at Defiance

It came out in April 2013.
It basically became free within 3-4 months with massive price drops due to terrible developers and management.
It went free to play in June 2014 for PC and they pushed back the free to play for consoles because they keep screwing up.
A buy to play game that was going for 5 bucks at the time went free to play and adopted the same cash grab store that they adopted in Rift and are adopting in ArcheAge.

So you go right on ahead putting Trion up on a pedestal, anyone that's familiar with the company will just laugh at you.

Again, I am not defending Zenimax in regards to their launch, but to sit here and tote Trion around as someone to emulate themselves after is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on these boards and that really takes the cake.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

grimjim398 wrote: »

This thread is a demonstration of really high class thinking. Snarking about the developers is always a good way to get them to listen to your complaints. Presenting anecdotal evidence of the need for a change is another winner. The developers get crap from players all the time so guess what the best way to ask for a change is?

And when they tell you this kind of balance takes time, adding sarcasm and insults to the snark is really helpful. Suggestions: Spend the rest of this thread telling them they don't do their jobs, don't play their own game, and keep repeating the stuff about how much they like skirts. Those are really great ideas.

With this kind of advocacy, you can be sure that these problems will receive really urgent attention.

Have you been following development at all. They acknowledged all these issues 3 months ago . Gave a rousing speach about how it would be fixed. Then simply walked on by saying "hey did ya hear about our champion system!" Never implementing even a fraction of what they promised in the prevous road ahead. Its near 5 months post launch . We got 1 true content update. I dont count coh a update sorry. And four meager fixes to stamina abilities . Were still all wearing dresses and wielding sticks. No dark brotherhood, no thieves guild. I dont know man most of the 2million in sales have already spoken with un subbing

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

I dont know man when stacking up the quality and fucntion of Rift at launch the soul system and how quick they fixed things while adding content . It is widely agreed amongst MMO'rs even the ones who didnt realy care for rift. that team is pretty slick. It has several lead devs from differnt games in its ranks all AAA MMO vets.

Now im not claiming Rift was the best MMO but for a game that cost about 50 mil to make . Launched in a very very polished state with 1 raid and some great 5 man content that was actually itemized and not random world purples dropped in them or borken sets that no one uses because you can craft better in 90 seconds. the bugs in rift were minimal , it suffered from the same imbalances ESO does. but by four months they dropped 2 more raids another raid 2 ten man raid , added a master mode dungeon. had the game pretty balanced. while holding Live in game events , true Dynamic content and retaining 70% of the subs of sales would suggest it was a success. Rifts meta critic still holds at 84% and at launch it was even higher.http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/rift

Now compared to ESO's rating http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/the-elder-scrolls-online
Well id say its pretty evident. who had a better launch product. hell man you still cant even invite people to group with out having to break the group several times to even get the grouping tool to work right. Come on now, dont blindly defend the team that is responsible for this. honestly they made a beautiful engine hands down way more impressive then Rift but these guys cant even use it correctly every patch breaks something more . the team is constantly re neging on things they said months ago and act like they never happened. Like VR dungeon scaling , Reitemizing them to Drop usable powerful gear . Or how about them saying the thieves guild and dark brotherhood would be in shortly after launch with craglorn.
in reality it looks like we are the ones being trolled by ZOS. Hell rift stayed Premium for 3 years i dont think ESO will make 12 months dude. They retained 750k subs world wide out of 2 mil in sales lol. Im not trolling its just facts.

The only person blindly defending something is you, you seem to think that Trion is the best thing since sliced bread and it's far from the case. If you even had an inkling of my post history you'd understand how laughable it is for you to claim I'm blindly defending ESO when I clearly said that I'm not saying they're doing good.

Also, using metacritic as your argument? haha... that's hilarious.

Also rift is the only game that trion makes? You're forgetting that they ran End of Nations into the ground once they got their hands on it. They completely screwed up with Defiance are are still screwing up with Defiance and completely fizzled out with Rift. Even when they're only localizing for ArcheAge, they're already getting their greedy little paws in it with the pay store and design changes.

Now for some actual facts.

Rift only stayed completely premium for a year.
Rift came out in march 2011.
They came out with Rift lite in February 2012.
With an indefinite free game with restrictions, that were unlocked with a subscription. With many free weeks and free day promotions that unlocked the entire game.

A year and a half later they went full free to play in June 2013 after swearing the weeks prior that they weren't and mass banning people for it, they continued to go downhill.

Now let's look at Defiance

It came out in April 2013.
It basically became free within 3-4 months with massive price drops due to terrible developers and management.
It went free to play in June 2014 for PC and they pushed back the free to play for consoles because they keep screwing up.
A buy to play game that was going for 5 bucks at the time went free to play and adopted the same cash grab store that they adopted in Rift and are adopting in ArcheAge.

So you go right on ahead putting Trion up on a pedestal, anyone that's familiar with the company will just laugh at you.

Again, I am not defending Zenimax in regards to their launch, but to sit here and tote Trion around as someone to emulate themselves after is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on these boards and that really takes the cake.

I do a completely private game company with no one holding to them no big IP and they crushed it in Revenue wall street is still bugging them to go Public. And defiance. really now did anyone tout that as a wow killer? . And let me ask you why in hell is a multi billion dollar gaming company like XL hiring Trion to manage their game? Because they are..... Cheap? i doubt that. It's because they know what they are doing. End of nations was turned into a Free MOBA instead of a RTSMMO .

No i dont think Trion is the best Dev team but they are Friggin damn good Scott hartsman alone has more EQ 1 expans under his belt, helped Develop eq 2 from the ground up and blazed out content all the way through kunark before he quit and formed trion. made that game in 3 years.

Look i dont think Mythic warhammers team could do worse then this fiasco with beer goggles and broken fingers. seriously we have bugs like the group bug still five months later? Classes that dont even function? And as for rift they offered 20 lvls for free just like wow , just like any other post 1 year MMO . and did well enough to blow out a massive expansion. please inform us who could fix this mess what development team ? Because ESO's team aint cuttin it.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · July 2014

Crisscross wrote: »

Don't forget armor imbalances.

I can understand that these things take time, and balancing SHOULD be done carefully, but the thing is ZOS has shown us they're really not averse to sweeping, immediate changes when a glaring imbalance shows up. For example, the shield bash nerf, the vampire nerfs, the AOE cap, and even templar magicka regen pre-launch. All big changes that made huge differences in the landscape of the meta, implemented within weeks of the first forum threads appearing.

Now, however, we've had a huge dominance of staff+bathrobe for MONTHS, and we've really just been getting the tiniest of buffs (medium armor stamina reduction: heavy armor is still useless, and stamina skills themselves are still leagues behind magicka/class skills) and the tiniest of communication about it ("we make class balance changes very slowly because they can have a big impact on your play experience. We’re making changes carefully, but we are always watching feedback about balance concerns.").

When you consider that sort of behavior difference from them, it really looks like they're dragging their feet about making the "warrior" archetype viable, and it's really disheartening to people that want to play it.

This is nonsense. There is a huge difference between changing something that is not performing as intended( eg bash) and something that is working as intended but vastly underperforming (stamina builds, weapon viability). They did not intend for a bash with shield to be best DPs for weapon(while blocking!) So it was fastracked to work (PROPERLY). rebalancing the whole stamina system to perform better is not even a related topic.

jelliedsoup · July 2014

grimjim398 wrote: »

This thread is a demonstration of really high class thinking. Snarking about the developers is always a good way to get them to listen to your complaints. Presenting anecdotal evidence of the need for a change is another winner. The developers get crap from players all the time so guess what the best way to ask for a change is?

And when they tell you this kind of balance takes time, adding sarcasm and insults to the snark is really helpful. Suggestions: Spend the rest of this thread telling them they don't do their jobs, don't play their own game, and keep repeating the stuff about how much they like skirts. Those are really great ideas.

With this kind of advocacy, you can be sure that these problems will receive really urgent attention.

If they don't know that the current system is flawed then this game will not last. If they don't mind losing those who play weapons/stamina builds and think that slow release of balanced changes will help, even when these changes imply otherwise.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

Crisscross wrote: »

Don't forget armor imbalances.

I can understand that these things take time, and balancing SHOULD be done carefully, but the thing is ZOS has shown us they're really not averse to sweeping, immediate changes when a glaring imbalance shows up. For example, the shield bash nerf, the vampire nerfs, the AOE cap, and even templar magicka regen pre-launch. All big changes that made huge differences in the landscape of the meta, implemented within weeks of the first forum threads appearing.

Now, however, we've had a huge dominance of staff+bathrobe for MONTHS, and we've really just been getting the tiniest of buffs (medium armor stamina reduction: heavy armor is still useless, and stamina skills themselves are still leagues behind magicka/class skills) and the tiniest of communication about it ("we make class balance changes very slowly because they can have a big impact on your play experience. We’re making changes carefully, but we are always watching feedback about balance concerns.").

When you consider that sort of behavior difference from them, it really looks like they're dragging their feet about making the "warrior" archetype viable, and it's really disheartening to people that want to play it.

This is nonsense. There is a huge difference between changing something that is not performing as intended( eg bash) and something that is working as intended but vastly underperforming (stamina builds, weapon viability). They did not intend for a bash with shield to be best DPs for weapon(while blocking!) So it was fastracked to work (PROPERLY). rebalancing the whole stamina system to perform better is not even a related topic.

Thats flawed. Shield bash did not put anywhere near the dps .robes and staves did. It did how ever give 150 more dps then a dual wield build. They have nerfed melee on several occasions . After knowing the issue. The only reason bash o matic was nerfed is because it was unstoppable in pvp.
It had nothing to do with the dps in pve. I agree though it should not have been doing that dps. But then again the melee armor system should have never even made it out ofbeta this broken

xaade · July 2014

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/123281/weapons-and-spell-vs-weapon-power-an-idea-to-help-the-balance

xaade · July 2014

firstdecan wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Crisscross wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

...I really don't see too many complaints about 2-handers...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/118270/2h-vs-dual-wield-in-pvp-state-of-play
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/122439/two-handed-skill-line
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/85533/2-handed-needs-to-be-buffed-entire-style-is-rather-terrible-atm
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/114297/yet-another-2-handed-weapon-skill-idea-thread

Just to name a few. I would guess that you don't see them around nowadays because they've really been discussed to death, but imo I would say that 2 handed and heavy armor are the most underpowered non-class non-crafting skill trees in the game.

for sure. i have no idea how this made it out of closed beta. and im baffled how they let it go on so damn long.

ZOS only hires cross-dressers, that's why they want to see everyone in a dress.

Actually,

They posted at some point that they'd offer light armor chests that are just shirts, so people have a choice on light armor and robes. Maybe that was their idea of balancing. They heard balance, then saw the complaints about everyone having to wear robes, then got the wrong impression.

LOL.