So if we ask about Stamina and weapons imbalance for long enough it will get addressed?

david.haypreub18_ESO · July 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

for sure. i have no idea how this made it out of closed beta. and im baffled how they let it go on so damn long.

It is getting to the point where you wonder really what is going on.

The problem has been known since beta, was glaringly obvious within a month of release, was acknowledged by ZOS more than a month ago... and yet all their efforts to fix the problem have been tepid and minor, their responses have petered out, and nothing they have proposed would come close to solving the issues.

And the weeks roll by...

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

for sure. i have no idea how this made it out of closed beta. and im baffled how they let it go on so damn long.

It is getting to the point where you wonder really what is going on.

The problem has been known since beta, was glaringly obvious within a month of release, was acknowledged by ZOS more than a month ago... and yet all their efforts to fix the problem have been tepid and minor, their responses have petered out, and nothing they have proposed would come close to solving the issues.

And the weeks roll by...

Heavy handed nerfs conclude they have no clue on how to fix it. they keep trying gear changes and ignoring the complete imbalances armor passives are creating. At this point id say change all the armor passives to mirror light. I think they f 'd it up so bad in coding they could potentialy break the game should they make the changes they need to make. Not looking good though, people wont wait 7 months to fix the game. Rift fixed it in 90 days , and it hurt them greatly. Anyone remember rogues need not apply in zone chat. very very simmilar to the nightblade problem

Fleymark · July 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

for sure. i have no idea how this made it out of closed beta. and im baffled how they let it go on so damn long.

It is getting to the point where you wonder really what is going on.

The problem has been known since beta, was glaringly obvious within a month of release, was acknowledged by ZOS more than a month ago... and yet all their efforts to fix the problem have been tepid and minor, their responses have petered out, and nothing they have proposed would come close to solving the issues.

And the weeks roll by...

Heavy handed nerfs conclude they have no clue on how to fix it. they keep trying gear changes and ignoring the complete imbalances armor passives are creating. At this point id say change all the armor passives to mirror light. I think they f 'd it up so bad in coding they could potentialy break the game should they make the changes they need to make. Not looking good though, people wont wait 7 months to fix the game. Rift fixed it in 90 days , and it hurt them greatly. Anyone remember rogues need not apply in zone chat. very very simmilar to the nightblade problem

It's just ridiculous. Anyone can go look at the passives on armor, for example, and see that the numbers are way off. Just make the freaking percentages the same. Whatever mods staff dmg in the code...Make it the same for the other weapons.

They act like there's some rocket science or voodoo involved. There isn't. Just balance it. Tweak later.

And as the poster you quoted said, the weeks roll by. While we pay sub fees. Mine runs out in a few days and I've seriously considered letting it lapse. I'll probably stick around one more month because my friend just hit vet level (or will today) and I've gotten into some alts and crafting....or two...I'd like to be able to say I gave it a full 6 months out of respect for the title being an elder scrolls game, but there are tons of great games coming out this fall and I see noreason to pay these people to not fix the fundamental problems with their game past a half a year.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

Fleymark wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

for sure. i have no idea how this made it out of closed beta. and im baffled how they let it go on so damn long.

It is getting to the point where you wonder really what is going on.

The problem has been known since beta, was glaringly obvious within a month of release, was acknowledged by ZOS more than a month ago... and yet all their efforts to fix the problem have been tepid and minor, their responses have petered out, and nothing they have proposed would come close to solving the issues.

And the weeks roll by...

Heavy handed nerfs conclude they have no clue on how to fix it. they keep trying gear changes and ignoring the complete imbalances armor passives are creating. At this point id say change all the armor passives to mirror light. I think they f 'd it up so bad in coding they could potentialy break the game should they make the changes they need to make. Not looking good though, people wont wait 7 months to fix the game. Rift fixed it in 90 days , and it hurt them greatly. Anyone remember rogues need not apply in zone chat. very very simmilar to the nightblade problem

It's just ridiculous. Anyone can go look at the passives on armor, for example, and see that the numbers are way off. Just make the freaking percentages the same. Whatever mods staff dmg in the code...Make it the same for the other weapons.

They act like there's some rocket science or voodoo involved. There isn't. Just balance it. Tweak later.

And as the poster you quoted said, the weeks roll by. While we pay sub fees. Mine runs out in a few days and I've seriously considered letting it lapse. I'll probably stick around one more month because my friend just hit vet level (or will today) and I've gotten into some alts and crafting....or two...I'd like to be able to say I gave it a full 6 months out of respect for the title being an elder scrolls game, but there are tons of great games coming out this fall and I see noreason to pay these people to not fix the fundamental problems with their game past a half a year.

Ive already canceled ill return december or so see what content they have added from the quake con panel right now i suspect none of the armor or stamina issues will be fixed by then. i dont think they intend to fix it in all honesty.

david.haypreub18_ESO · July 2014

I wonder if the problem is that the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood lines are already Stamina-based, and would solve part of the problem (at least would give Stamina builds an equal number of skills), but that the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood are still months away. So maybe they are stuck in a bind with part of the solution being too far away for them to implement now.

Grayaxeb14_ESO · July 2014

I think they will balance it eventually, it does seem to be taking them a bit of time to do it. I'm not sure buffing the armor sets for 1.3 is the right work around, but it's a step in the right direction. There is a fundamental problem with the mechanics with regards to weapons and armor that I wish was getting an update sooner then an updated armor. But I know they're working on it and that gives me hope.

On a side note, I've been wondering if basing the soft caps off the armor type you're wearing would help any. So someone wearing all heavy armor might hit their magicka cap earlier then someone in light armor. But the person in all heavy would have a higher health and armor soft cap. Just a thought...

khele23eb17_ESO · July 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

At this point id say change all the armor passives to mirror light. I think they f 'd it up so bad in coding they could potentialy break the game should they make the changes they need to make.

That would explain a lot tho I find it hard to believe they coded it in a way that doesnt allow them to easily add or modify existing skills/passives. It would take some creative incompetence to pull that off :P

Grayaxeb14_ESO wrote: »

On a side note, I've been wondering if basing the soft caps off the armor type you're wearing would help any. So someone wearing all heavy armor might hit their magicka cap earlier then someone in light armor. But the person in all heavy would have a higher health and armor soft cap. Just a thought...

Its been repeatedly suggested that each piece of armor should come with its own armor soft cap value. Obviously each piece of heavy armor would increase your total cap a lot more than a piece of light armor. If you wore 7 heavy armor pieces your cap would be significantly higher than if you put on 2 heavy and 5 light pieces.

pecheckler · July 2014

I have been waiting two months for a stamina/weapons/armor versus light armor and staves balance resolution before I re-subscribe. I cannot play the way I want, so I cannot maintain a subscription either.

Daethz · July 2014

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

We know these changes take time but it is really too slow right now. If we have to wait 6-8 weeks for one change... it's never going to be solved and I'm afraid it will have an impact on the future of the game.

No, it does not take this long.
They could have completely rebalanced every spell in the entirety of this mmo at this point.

Simple fact is you run out of stamina much faster than magicka, stamina spells deal less damage than magicka ones.
Stamina spells should deal More damage than magicka ones, or should have their Stamina Costs reduced.

EQBallzz · July 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

So if we ask about Stamina and weapons imbalance for long enough it will get addressed?

You mean like the damage increase many Weapon abilities already got several patches ago? Or how about the change to Wind Walker in Medium Armor? I know, maybe you're talking about all the set bonus changes in 1.3 that CLEARLY favor Stamina builds? Or how about in the Quakecon video where they talk about wanting to raise base Weapon damage even more along with other Stamina balances to bring it in line with Magicka builds?

The title of this thread should be changed to (from ZoS's perspective) "So if we change enough with Stamina and Weapon imbalances for long enough will players finally notice we ARE doing something about it?"

I don't think fixing the stamina imbalance with gear changes is the correct approach. If that is the intention it is by it's very nature an imbalance. Even if they managed to balance stamina with magicka via set bonuses (I doubt that will happen) that would mean the power of stamina builds are reliant on gear and magicka builds have inherent power with gear being a bonus on top of that. The other changes are steps but they are not enough and don't address the lacking weapon abilities in comparison to magicka abilities or the horrible armor imbalances.

I really don't get why they are being so damn cautious about fixing the imbalances. There is a middle ground between incremental (and inconsequential) changes and sweeping (possibly game breaking) changes. They really need to make more substantial changes to address the stamina issue as well as the armor issue.

With the announcement of the spell crafting system and no equivalent system being announced for stamina based builds I have to wonder what the actual future of stamina builds are. Magicka based builds have a clear advantage and they have major changes in the works to boost magicka builds while stamina builds keep getting incremental changes that keep it lagging behind and no major changes/additions on the horizon (that we know about). The future of stamina builds is really not looking that promising.

StormbrookThunderb · July 2014

I have said it's mostly skill based. NERFING is a terrible idea. Nerfing broke Rome 2 it will break ESO. Buffing is actually better. At least something is getting stronger, and the game is being improved somehow. By nerving they are subtracting content. nerFing makes the game worse in a lot of aspects.

I've already commented it's mostly the skills are broken. The game was intended to be able to mix and match. Balance should be given to the players. If something is OP the dev's should release a strategy to beat the OP. (like starcraft only easier.)

Xsorus · July 2014

StormbrookThunderb wrote: »

I have said it's mostly skill based. NERFING is a terrible idea. Nerfing broke Rome 2 it will break ESO. Buffing is actually better. At least something is getting stronger, and the game is being improved somehow. By nerving they are subtracting content. nerFing makes the game worse in a lot of aspects.

I've already commented it's mostly the skills are broken. The game was intended to be able to mix and match. Balance should be given to the players. If something is OP the dev's should release a strategy to beat the OP. (like starcraft only easier.)

No...just no...

Your idea of balance is silly

I'll give you an example... Bright Wizards in Warhammer Online, they flat out needed a nerf, and Shadow Warriors/Engineers didn't need to be brought to their level.

Another Example, Valkyries in DAOC, again..this is a class I played..it flat out needed a nerf after it got overbuffed..other classes didn't need be buffed to its level.

This whole concept of "We should just buff everyone and never nerf anything" is moronic...and should never be taken seriously by anyone..

Xsorus · July 2014

On the subject of Stamina Builds, there are some good chances on PTS right now that will help them.

Covenants Axe Set will make Dual Wield very popular against in Dungeons because it lost its ICD on its On Kill Resource Gain, making it very good for Dual Wielders in both PvP and PvE

On the subject of 2 hander...if you're running 2 hander right now in PvP, and you're using anything but Powered and Disease Enchant on your weapon, You're doing it wrong.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

So if we ask about Stamina and weapons imbalance for long enough it will get addressed?

You mean like the damage increase many Weapon abilities already got several patches ago? Or how about the change to Wind Walker in Medium Armor? I know, maybe you're talking about all the set bonus changes in 1.3 that CLEARLY favor Stamina builds? Or how about in the Quakecon video where they talk about wanting to raise base Weapon damage even more along with other Stamina balances to bring it in line with Magicka builds?

The title of this thread should be changed to (from ZoS's perspective) "So if we change enough with Stamina and Weapon imbalances for long enough will players finally notice we ARE doing something about it?"

No we mean the incremental change to 4 abilites across the board. incase you have not noticed the last gear change they tried for stma builds failed miserably. so much so they changed the tool tip to reflect the set they could not fix to make stamina builds viable.

the rest of the crap ZOS is spouting is exactly that. the new gear changes favor all DeLindsay all tey did was add other stam bonus's to gear that clearly favored magica. no i dont take anything they spout at quake con seriously . they have not even implemented a qrtr of what they said in the first road ahead which was extremely limited to reitemizing dungeons so they are worth doing and easing the the EXP burden on Vr ranks. so no at this point its all hot air . If youo folowed and development prior to this launch you would know they stated the other guilds would be in the game 90 days after launch. I dont think youo can take anything ZOS says as more then just a ploy to market and retain a bleeding sub base.

Covyn · July 2014

You know, after the past 6 weeks only logging in to start my next researches, I have seen the same issues still going on and being discussed that were there since Beta right into the launch of the game.

It's disappointing, I had such high hopes for this game, but looking at the dwindling population (from the perspective of AD on the NA server) my only answer now is this....Zenimax is a complete failure of a company. I had hopes they would have this very topic addressed before my renewal came around, *shrug* I am not waiting 2 years for Zenimax to pull their heads out of their winking skeevers and get it done.

Very disappointing.....

jelliedsoup · July 2014

Giving more stamina is not a fix. Putting weapon damage on par with class skills is a simple solution. Sure stam builds need to contend with dodging and blocking, but at least it would be a start. Giving more of something which is fundamentally weaker and already used for dodging, sprinting etc is not going to make it equal.

This should be obvious, and I'm assuming zos know this and disregard it by promoting spells.

MrBeatDown · July 2014

They have partially fixed Stamina builds. You can wear all Medium armor and make a melee stamina build that is very nice.
The big problem right now is you cant have a Heavy Armor Stamina build that is real nice. I still haven't figured out what the purpose of heavy armor is for this game. I can tank just as well in full medium armor with a shield. Heavy armor is completely pointless.

Soothy · July 2014

MrBeatDown wrote: »

I still haven't figured out what the purpose of heavy armor is for this game. I can tank just as well in full medium armor with a shield. Heavy armor is completely pointless.

It's there so people can 'play how they want'

khele23eb17_ESO · July 2014

MrBeatDown wrote: »

They have partially fixed Stamina builds. You can wear all Medium armor and make a melee stamina build that is very nice.
The big problem right now is you cant have a Heavy Armor Stamina build that is real nice. I still haven't figured out what the purpose of heavy armor is for this game. I can tank just as well in full medium armor with a shield. Heavy armor is completely pointless.

Well, those stam builds still dont come close to the output magicka builds offer. Theyre not 'very nice' compared to staff/cloth. Heavy is even worse off, I agree but that doesnt mean medium stam builds are somehow in a good place.

odiasuda · July 2014

Come on, mate - you know everyone has been clamouring for dyes, not balance.

Who needs a viable stamina build when your dressing gown can be coloured chartreuse?

indytims_ESO · July 2014

I keep getting the feeling that Zeni intends for 'Magicka-based- builds' to be the 'default' way people play their classes. I don't think they really intend to -ever- make Stamina builds 'equivalent' to Magicka builds.

Yes, there's been discussion about 'changes' coming, but I would bet a dollar that those changes will still fall well-short of bringing Stamina up to par with Magicka-based builds.

I just get the feeling that they intend for folks to focus on both Magicka/Stamina, rather than just one over the other. While this gives Magicka a decided advantage, I fear that's simply something we will have to live with and adapt to.

khele23eb17_ESO · July 2014

indytims_ESO wrote: »

I keep getting the feeling that Zeni intends for 'Magicka-based- builds' to be the 'default' way people play their classes. I don't think they really intend to -ever- make Stamina builds 'equivalent' to Magicka builds.

Why even have armor focused on stamina skills then, why have whole sets focused on stamina, why base iconic fantasy weapons on stamina? You know people will want to play a heavy armored juggernaut with a 2 handed weapon or a lean, mobile archer clad in leather. Why design a game that takes this enjoyment away from them?

indytims_ESO wrote: »

While this gives Magicka a decided advantage, I fear that's simply something we will have to live with and adapt to.

Or we can just not play ESO at all.

michaelb14a_ESO2 · July 2014

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

I wonder if the problem is that the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood lines are already Stamina-based, and would solve part of the problem (at least would give Stamina builds an equal number of skills), but that the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood are still months away. So maybe they are stuck in a bind with part of the solution being too far away for them to implement now.

I initially THOUGHT this might be the case... That was until QuakeCon. It's not the two guilds, it's spell crafting that has them in a corner. Nick even eluded to this when asked about the imbalances between magica and stamina. So basically, spell crafting is their answer.... It's just really far off.

khele23eb17_ESO · July 2014

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

I wonder if the problem is that the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood lines are already Stamina-based, and would solve part of the problem (at least would give Stamina builds an equal number of skills), but that the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood are still months away. So maybe they are stuck in a bind with part of the solution being too far away for them to implement now.

I initially THOUGHT this might be the case... That was until QuakeCon. It's not the two guilds, it's spell crafting that has them in a corner. Nick even eluded to this when asked about the imbalances between magica and stamina. So basically, spell crafting is their answer.... It's just really far off.

The jury is still out on this. Spellcrafting might help stamina builds somewhat (if it allows making spells that buff weapon dmg) but its more likely to make them even less viable by providing better magicka skills for any possible situation.

Anastasia · July 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

It is being addressed. It's just not something that can be done over the night since any major change could break the game so they are introducing minor changes little by little until they find the right balance.

Nevertheless, if it makes you feel happy, you can keep posting about it and think that your 10000 posts made it happen.

"...since any major change could break the game

MrBeatDown wrote: »

They have partially fixed Stamina builds. You can wear all Medium armor and make a melee stamina build that is very nice.
The big problem right now is you cant have a Heavy Armor Stamina build that is real nice. I still haven't figured out what the purpose of heavy armor is for this game. I can tank just as well in full medium armor with a shield. Heavy armor is completely pointless.

"They have partially fixed Stamina builds. You can wear all Medium armor and make a melee stamina build that is very nice." .............

I don't expect NICE. An MMO should provide at its base, core class types which provide a semblance of equitable stats, abilities and features. For most MMO's it is the LATER adding in of new characteristics which causes a need for adjustment and balancing.

Here players in TESO, we are STILL WAITING ON STAM BUILDS TO BE RAISED TO BE ON PAR, not a 'nice bone thrown our way...'.

I've primarily played main healers from wayyyyyyyyyyy back. I always run with a tankish-type partner. I'm embarrassed to read/see posts here about awesome, smart players who work their builds via the imbalanced magicka and then wear disguises so they can 'look like a tank'. Sad its come to that. Won't even start in about rogue stam hybrid builds or our Templar brethren and sisters. o-0

steveb16_ESO46 · July 2014

pecheckler wrote: »

I have been waiting two months for a stamina/weapons/armor versus light armor and staves balance resolution before I re-subscribe. I cannot play the way I want, so I cannot maintain a subscription either.

Totally agree. My sub runs until November and renewal has been cancelled. Maybe sometime, if they really fix things and if nothing better has come along by then, I'll resub.

But really - this was a 'get right in beta' issue, not a 'we'll get around to it' one.

Faulgor · July 2014

Just my 2 cents on this issue …

I'll try to bring up something on this topic that I don't see mentioned a lot, and that is the attribute system itself. Basically, they copied the H/M/S attributes from Skyrim, but made additions and changes that resulted in problems not present in the original games.

In the SP games, Magicka is used for casting spells. So it is in ESO, however, because the spell cost increases with your level, there is only a small benefit to increasing your magicka to cast more spells. Instead, you hugely rely on spell cost reduction, mainly from the light armor passive. Magicka is primarily increased to increase the damage with magicka-consuming abilities, which are mainly class-abilities.

In the SP games, Stamina increases your carrying capacity, determines how long you can sprint, is used for power attacks, things like that. ESO makes use of these things as well, and is not that different from the SP games in this regard. So, then why is stamina so inferior in ESO?

One other important mechanic that differentiates Skyrim's H/M/S attribute system from ESO is the absence of automatic attribute increase per level. Currently, when you level up in ESO, you get +20 to every attribute, and +10 or 15 to spend for yourself. In Skyrim, you got to spent 10 points as well – however, that was all you had. If you didn't spend your points into stamina, you were going to have a bad time sprinting and blocking. In ESO, your attribute choice is almost insignificant. Even if you put all points into stamina, you would only gain 490 more – which is about one fifth of the stamina soft cap introduced in Update 3. Of course, there are more sources of attributes, such as enchantments and food. However, both points combined – the scaling of ability cost with level and sufficient automatic attribute increase – mean that there is simply no drawback in foregoing stamina. You can still use CC-break, blocking and sprinting adequately, and you have more than enough stamina because you don't have to use it for offensive abilities.
It worked in Skyrim, because the difference between choosing stamina and choosing something else was immense. Putting the same system with the same numbers into ESO does not work, because the difference is negligible.

Now, this was just a long way of saying „Magicka is the better choice“, but the question is how to adress this issue. Often it is suggested to introduce a new resource for CC-break, blocking and sprinting, but I dislike this 'solution' for two reasons. One, it is not in line with classic TES mechanics, where stamina is precisely the resource for such things, and two, stamina builds should actually be very good at these things. Reducing stamina to a simple resource for hitting hard with combat abilities and adding a new resource or a cooldown-based system where everyone can CC-break and sprint equally well simply removes these playstyles from the game. Instead, ZOS should remind themselves what stamina was actually intended for, and improve stamina-builds along those lines.

What could that look like? For example:
- Stamina could increase the speed of a dodge roll. Got no stamina? It's only Dark Souls fat rolls for you.
- Stamina could increase CC-break speed.
- Stamina could increase CC-immunity after CC-break.
- Stamina could increase sprint speed.
- Stamina could increase block mitigation

Basically, anything that improves the performance of stamina-consuming actions without affecting the actual stamina cost. This would also make stamina an attractive attribute for players who don't even plan on using offensive combat abilities, but want to remain more agile and are willing to sacrifice some health or magicka to that end.
Which brings me to another proposed change to the attribute system, namely to increase the amount of attribute per attribute point and lower or even remove automatic attribute increaes. Currently, you gain 70 attributes per level (neglecting health for the moment), 60 of which are out of your control. I'd like to see this changed to +20 per attribute point spent, and +10 automatic increase for every attribute, i.e. 50 attributes per level – first, because you will have to make more of a choice when selecting an attribute, realizing this will disadvantage you in other areas, and second, to decrease the total amount of available attributes, because when you put this control into someone's hand the first thing they will do is put everything into a single attribute, and we would hit the soft caps even faster. Of course, scaled ability cost will have to be adjusted with this change.

Another matter more frequently debated are different armor types. To cut things short, this is probably the intent for different armors:
Light Armor
- low defense
- high spell defense
- better magicka efficiency (effecticely, spell damage)
Medium Armor
- medium defense
- low spell defense
- better stamina efficiency (effectively, weapon damage)
Heavy Armor
- high defense
- medium spell defense
- better health efficiency (recovery, block mitigation, healing)

Now, why does this not work out as it should? As far as I can tell, two main reasons. One, light armor users can overcome their low defense disadvantage too easily with high defense spells, and two, the inherent armor difference between armor types is too small. Fix these two things, and physical damage will become the nemesis of light armor wearers, as it should be.
It is also often brought up that stamina builds cannot even come close to the dps of magicka builds. That is true, however, I don't think fixing stamina dps without adressing these underlying issues will work out in the long run.

In Summary, i.e. TL;DR

- Increase performance of utility abilities (CC-break, dodge, sprint, block) based on maximum stamina
- Change attribute system to allow for larger disparities between resource pools
- Decrease power of magicka-based abilities that provide physical defense
- Increase differences in armor rating between armor types
- Then, adjust damage abilities where necessary

Arsenic_Touch · July 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Dont count on it. They need to hire an outside company like trion to fix this mess. never send a single player game to do a MMO's job.

So you want them to do worse?

It is widely know Trion is probably the best Dev team at implementation, turn around time for fixing and hands down put out the most vigorous update cycle of any MMo quality, consistency and and timelyness.

Okay, now I know you're trolling. Best dev team and Trion do not belong together in any capacity. The fact that you put Trion on a pedestal and sit here and talk down about ESO just further illustrates how divorced from the reality of things you are. Bravo.

Not saying Zenimax is doing a great job but to sit here and tote Trion around as a beacon of what to do? that is just mind boggling.

I cannot sit here without spitting out my drink laughing at how wrong you are with this statement.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Dont count on it. They need to hire an outside company like trion to fix this mess. never send a single player game to do a MMO's job.

So you want them to do worse?

It is widely know Trion is probably the best Dev team at implementation, turn around time for fixing and hands down put out the most vigorous update cycle of any MMo quality, consistency and and timelyness.

Okay, now I know you're trolling. Best dev team and Trion do not belong together in any capacity. The fact that you put Trion on a pedestal and sit here and talk down about ESO just further illustrates how divorced from the reality of things you are. Bravo.

Not saying Zenimax is doing a great job but to sit here and tote Trion around as a beacon of what to do? that is just mind boggling.

I cannot sit here without spitting out my drink laughing at how wrong you are with this statement.

I dont know man when stacking up the quality and fucntion of Rift at launch the soul system and how quick they fixed things while adding content . It is widely agreed amongst MMO'rs even the ones who didnt realy care for rift. that team is pretty slick. It has several lead devs from differnt games in its ranks all AAA MMO vets.

Now im not claiming Rift was the best MMO but for a game that cost about 50 mil to make . Launched in a very very polished state with 1 raid and some great 5 man content that was actually itemized and not random world purples dropped in them or borken sets that no one uses because you can craft better in 90 seconds. the bugs in rift were minimal , it suffered from the same imbalances ESO does. but by four months they dropped 2 more raids another raid 2 ten man raid , added a master mode dungeon. had the game pretty balanced. while holding Live in game events , true Dynamic content and retaining 70% of the subs of sales would suggest it was a success. Rifts meta critic still holds at 84% and at launch it was even higher.http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/rift

Now compared to ESO's rating http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/the-elder-scrolls-online
Well id say its pretty evident. who had a better launch product. hell man you still cant even invite people to group with out having to break the group several times to even get the grouping tool to work right. Come on now, dont blindly defend the team that is responsible for this. honestly they made a beautiful engine hands down way more impressive then Rift but these guys cant even use it correctly every patch breaks something more . the team is constantly re neging on things they said months ago and act like they never happened. Like VR dungeon scaling , Reitemizing them to Drop usable powerful gear . Or how about them saying the thieves guild and dark brotherhood would be in shortly after launch with craglorn.
in reality it looks like we are the ones being trolled by ZOS. Hell rift stayed Premium for 3 years i dont think ESO will make 12 months dude. They retained 750k subs world wide out of 2 mil in sales lol. Im not trolling its just facts.

Cody · July 2014

they can start by increasing the size of the passives in medium/heavy armor. what I mean by that, is simply make their effects bigger. instead of a pathetic 0.5% to weapon damage each piece, how about 2 or 3%? if LA passives let you ignore almost half of some ones spell resistance, then heavy armor can do something similar(medium as well) that's just an idea for a start. they should not make a gigantic change overnight, but they do need to speed it up a little. I don't want to have to wait for the game to have been out for almost a year for stamina builds to be optimal.