Doshia first time since beta.

Hadria · July 2014

sylviermoone wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

sylviermoone wrote: »

I remember fighting her on my DW NB at lvl 10 pre-nerf. It was an insanely difficult fight, and I died so many times I rage quit the fight, went out and got a few more levels, came back and STILL died a few times.

This is the reason... It's lvl 7 (If I recall right) quest mob that is in forced solo quest line. They could have chosen some other mob as the boss there and introduce harvesters a bit later in the game. Yes I did that during the beta and early access period so I know what it has been. And I understand the nerf, maybe bit too much of a nerf but anyway.

Doesn't encourage many people to continue with the game when you hit brick wall of boss in a solo quest in less than lvl 10.

I wouldn't say it constituted a brick wall for me. I died 6 or 7 times and was incredibly frustrated, sure. But I went out into the world, got some more experience and skills, came back and tried again. On my second go, I still died 2 or 3 times, but I made the adjustments needed for the fight and got 'er done. That fight was the one that really tought me that I would absolutely HAVE to make adjustments to my skills and my bar, study the boss, and adjust my fighting style appropriately depending on the situation.

One shouldn't expect to be able to fight every enemy in exactly the same way, IMO. One should expect this fight can be vastly different than your last fight, and a different strategy may need to be hammered out. For all the QQing about "play how you want", I personally never expected to lolfaceroll the game.

I still play this char. She is my main, and I just LOVE playing her. Though I've been playing her since early access, she only just broke vet levels. I still die (sometimes repeatedly) when facing tough solo bosses. Manimarco killed me SO MANY TIMES. But again, that fight was a matter of putting the correct combo of skills together for that particular fight, and it took some trial and error on my part.

Some people have these experiences, and then rush to the forum to scream OMG NERF THIS PLZ! TOO HARD NEED MOAR BUFFS!!!". I choose to revel in the sense of accomplishment for a victory well earned.

Edited for bad autocorrect.

And a lot of people failed to even have situational awareness when the orbs pooped up.

SgtPepperUK · July 2014

Ur-Quan wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

Doesn't encourage many people to continue with the game when you hit brick wall of boss in a solo quest in less than lvl 10.

I don't know - when I fought her the first time way before the nerf, I died a few times (I think I was level 8 ), decided I was doing something wrong, and went away to level up to 10. I came back at level 10 with better gear and a slightly different skill bar expecting (and planning for) a tough battle. That's when I figured out the mechanics of the fight and why I had kept on losing the first time. Guess what, this time it was still a tough battle, but I won. That was literally the first fight in ESO that made me actually think about what I was doing instead of just spamming attacks. It made me want to find more battles where I had to keep on my toes and think about what I was doing.

The quest was level 8 and, on-level, I simply couldn't beat her. I think that was a big part of the problem with the quest, you and I, like many people, simply went back at a higher level.

That said, not sure if a nerf was necessary, I think a lot of frustration could have been avoided by not having to fight her in such a small area and maybe having the orbs spawn a bit further out.

That way, the player would have needed to figure out the mechanics of the fight but be in a better position to counter them regardless of whether they were melee or ranged.

Azzuria · July 2014

Did Doshia on two toons before she got nerfed.

She was a stone bit** ... hard as nails and twice as ugly.

Now, not so much.

UrQuan · July 2014

SgtPepperUK wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

Doesn't encourage many people to continue with the game when you hit brick wall of boss in a solo quest in less than lvl 10.

I don't know - when I fought her the first time way before the nerf, I died a few times (I think I was level 8 ), decided I was doing something wrong, and went away to level up to 10. I came back at level 10 with better gear and a slightly different skill bar expecting (and planning for) a tough battle. That's when I figured out the mechanics of the fight and why I had kept on losing the first time. Guess what, this time it was still a tough battle, but I won. That was literally the first fight in ESO that made me actually think about what I was doing instead of just spamming attacks. It made me want to find more battles where I had to keep on my toes and think about what I was doing.

The quest was level 8 and, on-level, I simply couldn't beat her. I think that was a big part of the problem with the quest, you and I, like many people, simply went back at a higher level.

That said, not sure if a nerf was necessary, I think a lot of frustration could have been avoided by not having to fight her in such a small area and maybe having the orbs spawn a bit further out.

That way, the player would have needed to figure out the mechanics of the fight but be in a better position to counter them regardless of whether they were melee or ranged.

I did this quest with probably 5 or 6 alts before the nerf - after the first time I did it with my main I found it was very difficult at the appropriate level, but doable once you knew the mechanic. Having said that, the difficulty of the fight is different depending on what faction you're in, because the setting is different. If I recall correctly, in Daggerfall Alliance and Aldmeri Dominion the fight takes place in areas that are big enough that the orbs spawn a fair distance away, but in Ebonheart Pact the fight is in a fairly enclosed area, and the orbs spawn much closer. I could be misremembering which factions have it easier with this fight, though. I know it's not the same across the factions, I just don't remember for sure which faction has it the hardest.

gurluasb16_ESO · July 2014

I did it Pre-Nerf and I'm glad it was fixed.
Face it, Doshia is a Newbie mob, she's not meant to be a tough as iron boss.

Harvesters later on in the game are much harder. A good example is the Fake Lyris.

Lurker · July 2014

I beat her pre-nerf a while ago, but I had to come back at level 13 to do so. I just recently beat her, ignorant to the nerf, as a 7 sorc and I felt like a badass.

I'll go stand in my corner now..

UrQuan · July 2014

gurluasb16_ESO wrote: »

I did it Pre-Nerf and I'm glad it was fixed.
Face it, Doshia is a Newbie mob, she's not meant to be a tough as iron boss.

Harvesters later on in the game are much harder. A good example is the Fake Lyris.

I think pre-nerf she was probably somewhat too difficult for the level. If it had been a level 10 quest, I think it would have been just right. Tough enough to make you stop and examine your tactics (which really nothing up until that point makes you do), and realize that you can't just faceroll everything, but less discouraging than fighting her at level 8 as a noob just barely out of the starter islands.

Post-nerf she's way too easy for the level. She'd make a good solid level 4 boss, but a level 8 player should stomp her without even trying.

Side note: everyone always talks about Fake Lyris as being a tough fight. I found it to be incredibly easy - possibly because the initial Doshia fight made such an impression on me.

Evandus · July 2014

This is why many players can't fight harvesters. The current version only teaches spam attack as a tactic. Then they hit level 30 and wonder what the heck just happened to them.

sylviermoone · July 2014

Ur-Quan wrote: »

SgtPepperUK wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

Doesn't encourage many people to continue with the game when you hit brick wall of boss in a solo quest in less than lvl 10.

I don't know - when I fought her the first time way before the nerf, I died a few times (I think I was level 8 ), decided I was doing something wrong, and went away to level up to 10. I came back at level 10 with better gear and a slightly different skill bar expecting (and planning for) a tough battle. That's when I figured out the mechanics of the fight and why I had kept on losing the first time. Guess what, this time it was still a tough battle, but I won. That was literally the first fight in ESO that made me actually think about what I was doing instead of just spamming attacks. It made me want to find more battles where I had to keep on my toes and think about what I was doing.

The quest was level 8 and, on-level, I simply couldn't beat her. I think that was a big part of the problem with the quest, you and I, like many people, simply went back at a higher level.

That said, not sure if a nerf was necessary, I think a lot of frustration could have been avoided by not having to fight her in such a small area and maybe having the orbs spawn a bit further out.

That way, the player would have needed to figure out the mechanics of the fight but be in a better position to counter them regardless of whether they were melee or ranged.

I did this quest with probably 5 or 6 alts before the nerf - after the first time I did it with my main I found it was very difficult at the appropriate level, but doable once you knew the mechanic. Having said that, the difficulty of the fight is different depending on what faction you're in, because the setting is different. If I recall correctly, in Daggerfall Alliance and Aldmeri Dominion the fight takes place in areas that are big enough that the orbs spawn a fair distance away, but in Ebonheart Pact the fight is in a fairly enclosed area, and the orbs spawn much closer. I could be misremembering which factions have it easier with this fight, though. I know it's not the same across the factions, I just don't remember for sure which faction has it the hardest.

You are correct, it is EP where the fight is in a fairly enclosed area, which made it much more difficult for me due to how and where the orbs were spawning. Because of that, I didn't even notice the orbs at first. And having never gone up against a harvester, I certainly didn't realize it was a mechanic of the fight I would need to account for.

.

Srugzal · July 2014

ThePonzzz wrote: »

I don't know if I believe that. That golem was not challenging at all. I mean, his size was impressive, and playing the game for the first time, I THOUGHT he'd be tough. Granted, I did level up to 4 in the intro area.

But harvesters still have the black winter ability, which is the key to their difficulty.

Believe it, she is no better than an ordinary mob. Not even a boss level critter (no stars). Nothing even remotely similar to what she once was.

Iago · July 2014

pre nerf doshia was a level 9 quest, I was unable to beat her with my nightblade until he was level 16 and then it was still a long difficult fight.

post nerf my Dk killed her in one try with little to no difficulty....

it seems to me that there should be a middle ground somewhere between insanley difficult to insanely easy.....

Stx · July 2014

Its a real shame. Doshia wasn't that hard pre-nerf if you actually took the time to learn her spells and denied her the orb heals. I beat her in Beta and at launch with a Nightblade who was using mostly DoT spells(aka a crappy build). Yes I died a few times, but who cares? Are we never supposed to die in a game anymore?

I was really enjoying the challenging PvE in this game(my main was v9 when the nerfs came), now everything is too easy.

dietlime · July 2014

Tabbycat wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Harvesters are still some of the tougher creatures. I beat her pre-nerf, so I don't know what's she's like these days. But considering her level, it's probably a good thing. If you guys want a challenge, solo a like-level VR dolmen. As a nightblade. With no AoE.

Yes well, now she keels over dead if you sneeze on her.

The bone colossus you fight in the introduction in coldharbour while you are escaping with the prophet (at level 2 or 3 ish) is more challenging than Doshia. That's sad.

That's an exaggeration and you know it.

The_Sadist · July 2014

I just killed her moments ago on my alt with relative ease, but I can recall how difficult she was pre-nerf.

Honestly I'm indifferent, there's no point making a lowbie quest insanely difficult but she was watered down a bit too much.

Give a persona reason to complain and they will, apparently.

UrQuan · July 2014

dietlime wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Harvesters are still some of the tougher creatures. I beat her pre-nerf, so I don't know what's she's like these days. But considering her level, it's probably a good thing. If you guys want a challenge, solo a like-level VR dolmen. As a nightblade. With no AoE.

Yes well, now she keels over dead if you sneeze on her.

The bone colossus you fight in the introduction in coldharbour while you are escaping with the prophet (at level 2 or 3 ish) is more challenging than Doshia. That's sad.

That's an exaggeration and you know it.

Pre and post nerf, I've killed Doshia with 16 alts. I've killed the bone colossus almost as many times (I don't like skipping the intro). I've killed post-nerf Doshia with one shot (insta-kill with silver bolts). I've killed her several times before she even transformed (just by attacking, stunning, and causing damage - no insta-kill). I've never managed to kill the bone colossus as quickly and easily as that. Sure, if Doshia actually survives long enough to transform she'll be a harder fight than the bone colossus. There's a very good chance now that she won't, and in that case she's a way easier fight than the bone colossus.

AngryNord · July 2014

Just tested with an alt, and the Prophet definately DOES heal you in the fight with the bone colossus, but only if your health goes really low.

Sotha_Sil · July 2014

AngryNord wrote: »

Just tested with an alt, and the Prophet definately DOES heal you in the fight with the bone colossus, but only if your health goes really low.

it would be sad to die at this stage ^^.

Syntse · July 2014

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

Just tested with an alt, and the Prophet definately DOES heal you in the fight with the bone colossus, but only if your health goes really low.

it would be sad to die at this stage ^^.

Well you should be like lvl 3 at this point. Good place to check that you have selected the correct skills and know the tactics. Think it should be little bit tougher or at least not have prophet healing.

Like Doshia nerf was unnecessary, think the game should already at this point check if you are good enough to play this game.

Vuron · July 2014

Ur-Quan wrote: »

dietlime wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Harvesters are still some of the tougher creatures. I beat her pre-nerf, so I don't know what's she's like these days. But considering her level, it's probably a good thing. If you guys want a challenge, solo a like-level VR dolmen. As a nightblade. With no AoE.

Yes well, now she keels over dead if you sneeze on her.

The bone colossus you fight in the introduction in coldharbour while you are escaping with the prophet (at level 2 or 3 ish) is more challenging than Doshia. That's sad.

That's an exaggeration and you know it.

Pre and post nerf, I've killed Doshia with 16 alts. I've killed the bone colossus almost as many times (I don't like skipping the intro). I've killed post-nerf Doshia with one shot (insta-kill with silver bolts). I've killed her several times before she even transformed (just by attacking, stunning, and causing damage - no insta-kill). I've never managed to kill the bone colossus as quickly and easily as that. Sure, if Doshia actually survives long enough to transform she'll be a harder fight than the bone colossus. There's a very good chance now that she won't, and in that case she's a way easier fight than the bone colossus.

This mirrors my experience. Between a year of PTS and beta weekends, I've run through the tutorial and fought Doshia more times than I can remember. Most of my runs were as a melee NB and Doshia used to be hard, and I liked it that way. It went from insanely difficult to hard once you realized the mechanic of the orbs and hard to rather difficult after some of the nerfs and now its at joke level.

Like you, I killed her the last time before she even transformed into the Harvester.

Somehow, I never knew that the Prophet healed you during the intro and thought that fight was more difficult than Doshia.

Just add this to the list of many fights that have been nerfed a half dozen times. Mannimarco, Gutsripper, Balreth, etc. used to be some difficult, but fun fights that took some thought.

stumpy999 · July 2014

norion was quite tough for a melee build as well. Doshia is easier in certain alliances as well. In DC she is in a quite closed space so her orbs spawn close but in AD it's a nice wide cavern etc.

I don't think they are over nerfed now, they are lvl 5 fights after all

Endolith · July 2014

I beat her pre-nerf with a DW NB. I was level 11 at the time. At level 9 I couldn't get her. Now the fight is just stupid easy. It was much better before.

Evandus · July 2014

Vuron wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

dietlime wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Harvesters are still some of the tougher creatures. I beat her pre-nerf, so I don't know what's she's like these days. But considering her level, it's probably a good thing. If you guys want a challenge, solo a like-level VR dolmen. As a nightblade. With no AoE.

Yes well, now she keels over dead if you sneeze on her.

The bone colossus you fight in the introduction in coldharbour while you are escaping with the prophet (at level 2 or 3 ish) is more challenging than Doshia. That's sad.

That's an exaggeration and you know it.

Pre and post nerf, I've killed Doshia with 16 alts. I've killed the bone colossus almost as many times (I don't like skipping the intro). I've killed post-nerf Doshia with one shot (insta-kill with silver bolts). I've killed her several times before she even transformed (just by attacking, stunning, and causing damage - no insta-kill). I've never managed to kill the bone colossus as quickly and easily as that. Sure, if Doshia actually survives long enough to transform she'll be a harder fight than the bone colossus. There's a very good chance now that she won't, and in that case she's a way easier fight than the bone colossus.

This mirrors my experience. Between a year of PTS and beta weekends, I've run through the tutorial and fought Doshia more times than I can remember. Most of my runs were as a melee NB and Doshia used to be hard, and I liked it that way. It went from insanely difficult to hard once you realized the mechanic of the orbs and hard to rather difficult after some of the nerfs and now its at joke level.

Like you, I killed her the last time before she even transformed into the Harvester.

Somehow, I never knew that the Prophet healed you during the intro and thought that fight was more difficult than Doshia.

Just add this to the list of many fights that have been nerfed a half dozen times. Mannimarco, Gutsripper, Balreth, etc. used to be some difficult, but fun fights that took some thought.

Strangely enough, I had a much harder time fighting Gutsripper than Doshia pre nerfage. And I've never understood the complaints about Mannimarco. You can interrupt him with ease.

zgrssd · July 2014

Hadria wrote: »

and I am extremely disappointed . I remember it being a lot more difficult.

She was more difficulty.
Actually she was too difficulty.

She was intended as Solo boss of a level 8 quest. Somethings that designated healers should be able to kill.
But she felt more like a level 6 Open World boss.
I never even tried her with less then level 10 + freshly crafted green gear back in the days. And it could still be an issue to get all those orbs as melee DPS/Tank.
At 10 you lacked weapon swap, so without ranged attacks you were are a huge disadvantage.

Think positive: You can now say "Back when I started you needed at least level 10 to even stand a chance against Doshia."

everytime somebody complains about too high difficulty.

Srugzal · July 2014

Iago wrote: »

pre nerf doshia was a level 9 quest, I was unable to beat her with my nightblade until he was level 16 and then it was still a long difficult fight.

post nerf my Dk killed her in one try with little to no difficulty....

it seems to me that there should be a middle ground somewhere between insanley difficult to insanely easy.....

There was, I understand, more than one nerf. Same for Gutsripper.

Srugzal · July 2014

SgtPepperUK wrote: »

That said, not sure if a nerf was necessary, I think a lot of frustration could have been avoided by not having to fight her in such a small area and maybe having the orbs spawn a bit further out.

That way, the player would have needed to figure out the mechanics of the fight but be in a better position to counter them regardless of whether they were melee or ranged.

Did you fight her during the beta? Originally the orbs were also smaller and harder to both see and hit. That change was certainly a welcome one.

theyancey · July 2014

If they had not nerfed her they would have lost subs from causal gamers who would have just thrown up their hands and decided that the game was just too taxing for them. Not everyone wants to die repeatedly and have to put in tons of time to learn a tactic to defeat a boss. Many play the game for fun, not for work.

That being said I would like to see these bosses beginning at a harder level but each time a toon died the boss would become progressively weaker for them. Those who beat the boss on the initial levels would get more XP of course. This way it would provide both a challenge for those wanting it but would not block the game's progression for the casual fun player. After all without their subs you would not have a game.

Hadria · July 2014

theyancey wrote: »

If they had not nerfed her they would have lost subs from causal gamers who would have just thrown up their hands and decided that the game was just too taxing for them. Not everyone wants to die repeatedly and have to put in tons of time to learn a tactic to defeat a boss. Many play the game for fun, not for work.

That being said I would like to see these bosses beginning at a harder level but each time a toon died the boss would become progressively weaker for them. Those who beat the boss on the initial levels would get more XP of course. This way it would provide both a challenge for those wanting it but would not block the game's progression for the casual fun player. After all without their subs you would not have a game.

cause taking a lil bit of time to figure out what they were doing wrong required a lot of work. these people make me sad.

I play for fun also but what fun is it when none of it requires anything thinking at all.

Hadria · July 2014

Srugzal wrote: »

SgtPepperUK wrote: »

That said, not sure if a nerf was necessary, I think a lot of frustration could have been avoided by not having to fight her in such a small area and maybe having the orbs spawn a bit further out.

That way, the player would have needed to figure out the mechanics of the fight but be in a better position to counter them regardless of whether they were melee or ranged.

Did you fight her during the beta? Originally the orbs were also smaller and harder to both see and hit. That change was certainly a welcome one.

I fought her during beta, and I never had a problem seeing or attacking the orbs. That's why I never understood those threads about that problem. obviously some people did just don't know why.

theyancey · July 2014

Hadria wrote: »

theyancey wrote: »

If they had not nerfed her they would have lost subs from causal gamers who would have just thrown up their hands and decided that the game was just too taxing for them. Not everyone wants to die repeatedly and have to put in tons of time to learn a tactic to defeat a boss. Many play the game for fun, not for work.

That being said I would like to see these bosses beginning at a harder level but each time a toon died the boss would become progressively weaker for them. Those who beat the boss on the initial levels would get more XP of course. This way it would provide both a challenge for those wanting it but would not block the game's progression for the casual fun player. After all without their subs you would not have a game.

cause taking a lil bit of time to figure out what they were doing wrong required a lot of work. these people make me sad.

I play for fun also but what fun is it when none of it requires anything thinking at all.

I don't really give a skeever's rump what makes you sad or not. My point was that there are ways that a boss can be made challenging for those so inclined but builds in a path to progression for others. It seems that your pleasure comes not from what you do but from denying others their accomplishments.

Hadria · July 2014

theyancey wrote: »

Hadria wrote: »

theyancey wrote: »

If they had not nerfed her they would have lost subs from causal gamers who would have just thrown up their hands and decided that the game was just too taxing for them. Not everyone wants to die repeatedly and have to put in tons of time to learn a tactic to defeat a boss. Many play the game for fun, not for work.

That being said I would like to see these bosses beginning at a harder level but each time a toon died the boss would become progressively weaker for them. Those who beat the boss on the initial levels would get more XP of course. This way it would provide both a challenge for those wanting it but would not block the game's progression for the casual fun player. After all without their subs you would not have a game.

cause taking a lil bit of time to figure out what they were doing wrong required a lot of work. these people make me sad.

I play for fun also but what fun is it when none of it requires anything thinking at all.

I don't really give a skeever's rump what makes you sad or not. My point was that there are ways that a boss can be made challenging for those so inclined but builds in a path to progression for others. It seems that your pleasure comes not from what you do but from denying others their accomplishments.

of course I take pleasure in watching people fail over things that just take a bit of thinking to get through.