Grim13 wrote: »

rotiferuk wrote: »

All the game-pad profilers allow button presses to be chained. So do the high end gaming mice and keyboards. They also allow auto-fire.

One of the things Call of Duty actually does right with it's online play is ban programmable controller users (3 days -1rst offense)... I think ZOS should take a similar stance.
.

I disagree. I want to be able to play using my Xbox360 controller mapped to my requirements. the only way I can do this is by using a program like Xpadder. Other players like to use (for example) the Razer Naga or the Razer Hex and map the keyboard buttons to the mouse buttons.

Grim13 wrote: »

Macros, et. al., shouldn't be used in PvP. If you want to use them in PvE... go nuts... but it's an unfair advantage in PvP. Especially, when you consider how you can chain animation cancelled abilities.

Really? Thanks for the information. I will go and give it a try. My VR3 Templar could do with an edge when trying to avoid being run over by a Zerg of VR12 DK's / a train all spamming impulse. BTW, I take it you use a standard keyboard and mouse to play ESO?

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

In any case what the OP probably experienced was a lagswitch (whether due to actual or manufactured lag I couldn't begin to hazard a guess)

http://compnetworking.about.com/od/consumerelectronicsnetworks/f/lag_switches.htm

Err... You do realize that's a local hardware hack right (i.e. lan)? (1)

The reason that blocks either the Orange or Green wires is under standard wiring on a Cat5 twisted pair (Orange White, Orange, Green White, Blue, Blue White, Green, Brown White, Brown; or swap Green (White) with Orange (White)) is that those are your Transmit/Receive lines. So by blocking those, well... you get the picture.

As for the macro'ing of attacks... I'm sure some folks do it. Pain, but it is what it is until there's some "official" stance/response given; If there ever is.

-M

(1) - I'm not sure of what your "actual or manufactured lag" statement was pointing at.

Edit: Typo fix

Mitharus wrote: »

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

In any case what the OP probably experienced was a lagswitch (whether due to actual or manufactured lag I couldn't begin to hazard a guess)

http://compnetworking.about.com/od/consumerelectronicsnetworks/f/lag_switches.htm

Err... You do realize that's a local hardware hack right (i.e. lan)? (1)

The reason that blocks either the Orange or Green wires is under standard wiring on a Cat5 twisted pair (Orange White, Orange, Green White, Blue, Blue White, Green, Brown White, Brown; or swap Green (White) with Orange (White)) is that those are your Transmit/Receive lines. So by blocking those, well... you get the picture.

As for the macro'ing of attacks... I'm sure some folks do it. Pain, but it is what it is until there's some "official" stance/response given; If there ever is.

-M

(1) - I'm not sure of what your "actual or manufactured lag" statement was pointing at.

Edit: Typo fix

You can macro to your heart's content in ESO and it won't do anything, you're still limited by the attack animations on your client. I have a couple of abilities to 'repeat while button pushed' on my gamepad, it does nothing until i can queue another attack

Lagswitches work by basically lagging yourself out by cutting or reducing your connection. Then you queue up a few attacks, restore connection before the server boots you, and when your client catches up to the server it essentially dumps a bunch of skills within a very short timeframe, instakilling the person you're targeting.

Some problems with this are that basically there's no way to tell real lag from manufactured lag, and you're basically going to be a sitting duck while you do all this.

Also be aware that snipe has a very high trajectory, so you can essentially get snipe, a light attack via animation cancel, and any other ranged ability to hit at the exact same moment from stealth.

If you have low health it won't just look like an insta-kill it will BE one, and everything is 100% working as intended.

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

www.autohotkey.com
http://www.autoitscript.com/site/autoit/
www.lua.org
http://www.actool.net/



You don't need fancy hardware to make or use macros.

The same scripting language that's used in all the ESO addons? Yeah, you can use it for macros.

This is an old subject that always comes up from people that don't really know anything about macros, just that they are doing something that he can't or doesn't understand.

May as well just say you're using hacks/magic/voodoo and be done with it

And since all know who used it and how used it, and all know they dont play fair, those ppl still have fun with doing that? :O

Not sure that I understand you. In fact I'm sure I don't



In any case what the OP probably experienced was a lagswitch (whether due to actual or manufactured lag I couldn't begin to hazard a guess)

http://compnetworking.about.com/od/consumerelectronicsnetworks/f/lag_switches.htm

That or he got sniped and doesn't understand the mechanics of the game/bows/trajectory in general

I've noticed this before, yet unusual. Normally I do not go down very fast, yet even with attacking first, got hit by ambush, soul harvest, impale combo. Ambush and soul harvest .343 seconds apart, this was after he got hit by critical rush opener from me. Yes, there are things about the game that I am continually learning and this isn't about 1 experience, just an example of clipping an animation and possibly utilizing a macro for speed.


Thus the question that arises of macro use overall not just one little fight. Whether it be done using Wykkyd's Framework, your own programming, hardware....

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Mitharus wrote: »

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

In any case what the OP probably experienced was a lagswitch (whether due to actual or manufactured lag I couldn't begin to hazard a guess)

http://compnetworking.about.com/od/consumerelectronicsnetworks/f/lag_switches.htm

Err... You do realize that's a local hardware hack right (i.e. lan)? (1)

The reason that blocks either the Orange or Green wires is under standard wiring on a Cat5 twisted pair (Orange White, Orange, Green White, Blue, Blue White, Green, Brown White, Brown; or swap Green (White) with Orange (White)) is that those are your Transmit/Receive lines. So by blocking those, well... you get the picture.

As for the macro'ing of attacks... I'm sure some folks do it. Pain, but it is what it is until there's some "official" stance/response given; If there ever is.

-M

(1) - I'm not sure of what your "actual or manufactured lag" statement was pointing at.

Edit: Typo fix

You can macro to your heart's content in ESO and it won't do anything, you're still limited by the attack animations on your client. I have a couple of abilities to 'repeat while button pushed' on my gamepad, it does nothing until i can queue another attack

Lagswitches by basically lagging yourself out by cutting or reducing your connection. Then you queue up a few attacks, restore connection before the server boots you, and when your client catches up to the server it essentially dumps a bunch of skills within a very short timeframe, instakilling the person you're targeting.

Some problems with this are that basically there's no way to tell real lag from manufactured lag, and you're basically going to be a sitting duck while you do all this.

Also be aware that snipe has a very high trajectory, so you can essentially get snipe, a light attack via animation cancel, and any other ranged ability to hit at the exact same moment from stealth.

If you have low health it won't just look like an insta-kill it will BE one, and everything is 100% working as intended.

I agree that that can be the case with a lag spike and we do know that it occurs, but the question still remains about use of automation in playing and reporting instances that appear like it. Let ZOS sort out the reality, but hopefully take a stand and cut out the grey.

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Lagswitches by basically lagging yourself out by cutting or reducing your connection. Then you queue up a few attacks, restore connection before the server boots you, and when your client catches up to the server it essentially dumps a bunch of skills within a very short timeframe, instakilling the person you're targeting.

Ahhh.... I read the original as the lag on the one dying.

I would hope that their server is good/smart enough to not allow this basic exploit vector; Alas that hope is pretty thin now though.

-M

Zenimax has said themselves that they do not like players who macro and will go after them... you can get banned for it. Not to mention macroing is a chicken *** move anyway.

In ESO there is no such thing as an instant cast skill. All skills (including instants) have a cast time and then afterwards have a cool down window in which no skills can be cast. This game mechanic alone makes it impossible to "string" skills together with a macro much faster then the average player as the time it takes to cast one instant skill to the next is just under 1 second.

Can macros be used to pump skills out faster than intended? No.

What macros can be used for is things like better potion selection, holding block up, and chaining auto attacks. This means that a player who wants to auto attack while blocking will have block up more reliably than a player who doesn't use this macro, unless the non macro player practices (not very hard to accomplish as again the thresholds are not "beyond" human limitations).

So in my conclusion: can macros give people an advantage? Yes, but only a slight one. If anything macros can bring an unskilled player up to par with more skilled players, but they only get this boost for their specific macro(s) in use.

Are macros worth it? No. Even is it is allowed you wont learn anything about playing the game while using a macro. You will essentially be a dull blade with one sharp section that prevents you from sharpening the rest. The best players wont use block macros, because the best players know when and when not to block. Potion macros on the other hand are just a good idea because normal potion selection is nothing short of clunky, but the effect on gameplay they have is almost none as most people do not switch potions mid fight.

Macros are like an easy way to get to level 8 and stay there, when the max level is 10.

Note: It is very easy to kill someone in what seams like an instant, you don't need any macros to do it. Just a good combo and build behind it.

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Zenimax has said themselves that they do not like players who macro and will go after them... you can get banned for it. Not to mention macroing is a chicken *** move anyway.

Is there a link to that?

We reported someone who was obviously using macros and got a response from Zenimax saying that they will look into the player and they take that very seriously. I am trying to find an article though for evidence, I believe they mentioned something about it at Quakecon. I don't have time to watch the 1 hour 45 mins. video right now but I will later and link where they mentioned it.

Maybe @zos_BrianWheeler can comment on what Zenimax's stance is on macroing which would be nice considering the confusion by some.

Tell me, what was this guy was doing with his "macros" that was obvious enough that you clued in on him?

JackDaniell wrote: »

In ESO there is no such thing as an instant cast skill. All skills (including instants) have a cast time and then afterwards have a cool down window in which no skills can be cast. This game mechanic alone makes it impossible to "string" skills together with a macro much faster then the average player as the time it takes to cast one instant skill to the next is just under 1 second.

Normally, yes. However there is animation cancelling, which you can easily see without macros.

Try two light attacks and see how far the hits come in. Now try a light attack immediately followed by a skill. You can get the timing down so they go off near simultaneously (and you'll see a 100+dps increase just doing this). As-is, timing those takes some practice but macros can make you a 'LA > 10ms > skill' button for example. A block/bash will cancel the skill's animation, so chaining all of those you just have to wait on the block's animation really.

This type of macro should most definitely be a bannable offense. They restrict the addon API to attack commands so that addon users don't have an unfair advantage - using AutoHotkey or a macro keyboard/mouse is no different.


However, unless ESO does active detection or prevention on its part, this will persist. For example, if you rely on player reporting, it'll be difficult to investigate/find in a PvP setting (and near impossible in PvE). Either they need to completely do away with animation cancelling or have something watching command timings (could even put that in the client to not overburden servers).

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

That's not from a macro. Macros don't cancel attack animations

You said gankers. As in plural. Are you sure that there wasn't more than one?
Was he using a bow?
How much health do you have?

Did you bother to read this thread?

His name was the only one that showed up on my death recap for all 5 attacks, I have 2500-2600 depending plus some armor spells but I had my food buff on so it was higher than that. Yeah he was using a bow.

I have been reading the thread but it does seem to be some confusion on what a macro is because when we died the first thing everyone said was that the NB who killed us "macro'd". It was probably just blatant hacking to get 5 attacks off in about 1 second. I look at macroing as a way to program multiple attacks on one button kind of thing, which should still be something a player is banned for. That's why I put Brian's name in my post because I want to know what they think. I know hacking and botting is something you can be banned for.

OtarTheMad wrote: »

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

That's not from a macro. Macros don't cancel attack animations

You said gankers. As in plural. Are you sure that there wasn't more than one?
Was he using a bow?
How much health do you have?

Did you bother to read this thread?

His name was the only one that showed up on my death recap for all 5 attacks, I have 2500-2600 depending plus some armor spells but I had my food buff on so it was higher than that. Yeah he was using a bow.

I have been reading the thread but it does seem to be some confusion on what a macro is because when we died the first thing everyone said was that the NB who killed us "macro'd". It was probably just blatant hacking to get 5 attacks off in about 1 second. I look at macroing as a way to program multiple attacks on one button kind of thing, which should still be something a player is banned for. That's why I put Brian's name in my post because I want to know what they think. I know hacking and botting is something you can be banned for.

That sounds like a lagswitch man. I detailed how its done somewhere here earlier.
It would be ideal to perform with a bow as you can do some serious damage and queue up multiple abilities from the safety of stealth.

If you want to play around with what macros can and can't do in-game there are addons that allow macro functionality that are completely legal and follow the ESO API.
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info8-WykkydsFramework.html

You or someone you know probably already has it installed

I haven't played with it myself as I have a programmable gamepad/mouse and a working knowledge of AHK and LUA. And tbh I don't even use any here b/c there just isn't any real advantage you get from macroing in PvP outside of maybe the one spam skill on your bar.