Macro?

bruceb14_ESO5

Are the use of Macros a violation of TOS?

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services.

Most people don't seem to be abusing these, but there have been some instances of skills tied together in rapid progression that seems unreal. Looking at logs after situations that didn't make sense I could see it happening with specific players.

Is this a violation and should be reported?

Dleatherus

it seems that this is another 'gray area' for ZOS

the devs have been made aware of it, and nothing clear has come back from them

since members of our guild have been 'one shot killed' by these animation cancelling macros that deal insane amounts of damage all at once, we have been experimenting with macros and giving feedback to the devs (why they aren't aware of this or able to replicate for themselves is for a another discussion)

so far we have not only been able to stack an ungodly amount of damage, but by tweaking the timing between the abilities, we have actually been able to get some of the abilities to register as double and triple damage on the FTC add on

- it might in part explain some of the crazy death recap screenshots folks have been posting

all of our findings are passed onto the devs

D.

p.s. no innocent players were harmed during our experiments - we like to do our research on known macro'ers

bruceb14_ESO5

I agree that part of this is in tandem with animation cancelling and seems to be an exploit and violation. Hopefully it moves from grey area to clarity.

To have something such as Ambush-Soul Harvest combo in 1/4 of a second seems extreme, especially after I attacked first with a critical charge. Seems like a great oh..[snip] button.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

DontBeAfraid

Dleatherus wrote: »

p.s. no innocent players were harmed during our experiments - we like to do our research on known macro'ers

ofc..

bruceb14_ESO5

Question is, exploit/violation or just normal play that all can do?

If violation, how do we report?

If grey area, ZOS input would be awesome.

These problems tend to get abused, then crying, then costly nerf which affects many because of a few abuses.

Tintinabula

whats a known macroer? Are they on the endangered species list?

Samadhi

I use macros with my GreyMind quickslot in order to use potions by pressing a single button on my Naga.

ZOS should probably ban me and remove addons to prevent the unfair advantage I have over a player that uses the god-awful Q-wheel system for potions.

Dleatherus

Tintinabula wrote: »

whats a known macroer? Are they on the endangered species list?

hopefully they are

'known maco'ers' are folks that when players are running at 50+ FPS can in essence 1-shot kill you, yet when you look at the death recap it's a whole bunch of attacks that you should have been able to see and react to

not sure it can be termed an exploit per se - but it's getting to the point where if you run into a group of folks using these macros, they will insta wipe you, and there are more of them using them

basically the 'skill' of PvP is devolving into who sees the other first and launches the instakill macro

D.

p.s. personally i have never yet used a macro in PvP but that might change if folks using them grow in numbers

have no problem running into and dying to the occasional macro 1-shot-kill user, i do have a problem not even having an opportunity to PvP, and will have no qualms in starting to return the 'favor' of the fun of being on the receiving end of it

bruceb14_ESO5

@Dleatherus, like you, I do have the ability to use macros and have considered 'returning the favor'. Naga Keyboard and Mouse both easily programmed. Haven't wanted to be pointed out as the exploiter or cheater, yet if this practice is completely legit, why not?

bruceb14_ESO5

Samadhi wrote: »

I use macros with my GreyMind quickslot in order to use potions by pressing a single button on my Naga.

ZOS should probably ban me and remove addons to prevent the unfair advantage I have over a player that uses the god-awful Q-wheel system for potions.

What if that potion macro is on your Uh oh button and starts a progression
1) Crit Potion to boost crit and magicka
2) Ambush
3) Soul Harvest

then tap Impale....should be dead in less time than you normally even see an Ambush animation.

You might not be a Nightblade, doesn't really matter, it is automating tasks and gaining an advantage. Unfair, probably. To do with Hardware and Software, yes.

Grey area?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Grim13

They shouldn't be allowed. Period.

It's an unfair advantage over those who don't/cannot use them... AND it takes away from the competitive nature of PvP.

Samadhi

bruceb14_ESO5 wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

I use macros with my GreyMind quickslot in order to use potions by pressing a single button on my Naga.

ZOS should probably ban me and remove addons to prevent the unfair advantage I have over a player that uses the god-awful Q-wheel system for potions.

What if that potion macro is on your Uh oh button and starts a progression
1) Crit Potion to boost crit and magicka
2) Ambush
3) Soul Harvest

then tap Impale....should be dead in less time than you normally even see an Ambush animation.

You might not be a Nightblade, doesn't really matter, it is automating tasks and gaining an advantage. Unfair, probably. To do with Hardware and Software, yes.

Grey area?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Nah, my macros simply run a basic F1-->Q or F2-->Q script for easy potion use. Instead of having to press both keys in turn, I only have to hit my "health potion" "magicka potion" "invisibility potion" "detection potion" or "crit potion" keys as needed.
This still gives me a distinct advantage over players who have to hold down Q and use their mouse to select a potion type while in combat.

I think the Q-wheel system is basically useless for any reasonable utility in potion effects.
I'm not automating skill rotations or breaking effects, but I do still have a distinct advantage over players that do not use macros or add ons.

Dleatherus

Samadhi wrote: »

I use macros with my GreyMind quickslot in order to use potions by pressing a single button on my Naga.

ZOS should probably ban me and remove addons to prevent the unfair advantage I have over a player that uses the god-awful Q-wheel system for potions.

should you be banned? - nope

as mentioned before it's one of the many 'gray areas' of ESO

it's when these gray areas start influencing/ruining other's gameplay is when ZOS should be stepping in, swiftly i might add, and stating what is allowable and what isn't

it's like joining a dueling club that duels by fencing with rapiers, and one day somebody walks in with a pistol and says 'no rules on the door say i can't duel with this'

he just used something that 1-shot-killed his opponent that expedited the duel by pressing a single button

fair play?

debatable - however the dueling club needs to then swiftly state 'rapiers only' or 'pistols are ok' otherwise they ain't going have many members left (except perhaps the ones with the pistols, who curiously enough rarely enjoy dueling each other as much as they enjoy dueling the guys with the rapiers)

D.

Tintinabula

I still dont see how ppl are bypassing several different animations and "one shotting" anyone. Yes, I know about animation cancelling but its really not an accurate phrase. It shortens an animation by replacing that animation with another one.

It cancels nothing from what I've seen.And most keyboards that allocate macros(that I have seen) cut seconds up into 3rds generally(so basically you're never able to completely bypass an animation and still see dps from the skill unless someone has figured out something else that I'm not aware of.)

Dleatherus

@Tintinabula

actually most gaming keyboards and mice (razor and logitech to name just two) cut seconds up into MILLISECONDS

as stated earlier we have been able to create a macro that 60% of the time will do not just it's intended damage, but hit for 2x or 3x the intended original damage (NOT counting crit)

now fire a couple of those off within milliseconds of each other in the macro and you have your instakill

D.

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO

Some guy killed me within 1 second last week, he popped infront of me and he did- poison arrow, light attack, poison arrow, light attack, poison arrow.

The stream of arrows coming from his bow it was like he was using autofire.

I have a macro keyboard which i don't use but i tried to copy this on mobs and i couldn't do it that fast but it was faster than what i probably could of done by pressing the keys, so yes its a disadvantage when ppl use macros.

forgot to mention that i went back to where i died and he did it again using the same combo.

bruceb14_ESO5

Tintinabula wrote: »

I still dont see how ppl are bypassing several different animations and "one shotting" anyone. Yes, I know about animation cancelling but its really not an accurate phrase. It shortens an animation by replacing that animation with another one.

It cancels nothing from what I've seen.And most keyboards that allocate macros(that I have seen) cut seconds up into 3rds generally(so basically you're never able to completely bypass an animation and still see dps from the skill unless someone has figured out something else that I'm not aware of.)

Razer allows no delay or one one-thousandth of a second intervals on both mouse or keyboard.

Tintinabula

I have an old steel series stealth merc and Ive tried getting spells to fire at below 1 /10 th of a second..it just doesn't work.(for me) At a certain threshold(depending on the animation) the macro completely ignores the spell and goes on to the next.(or the game does.)

Maybe the newer macro keyboards force something.

dbishop

Anything and everything is possible. I doubt this game, like every other game will be able to beat the exploiters. For the exploiter the game is beating the game.
I suppose we should just screenshot the death recap screen and send it in to ZOS for further action.

inf.toniceb17_ESO

Had same results as @Tintinabula on Logitech G500s. Tried to cycle light attack-funnel health and couldn't make it any fater than with my fingers (around .14, anything faster causes toon to skip light attacks from time to time). More stable - yes, but not faster. There's got to be something else, not a simple macro.

bruceb14_ESO5

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

Had same results as @Tintinabula on Logitech G500s. Tried to cycle light attack-funnel health and couldn't make it any fater than with my fingers (around .14, anything faster causes toon to skip light attacks from time to time). More stable - yes, but not faster. There's got to be something else, not a simple macro.

I was just experimenting in PVE with my Razer and yes, the attacks wouldn't happen instantaneous with the macro. The hardware does allow it, but the game doesn't recognize or carry through the instanteous signals. Some actions are skipped. Trying to see what the threshold is and whether what I've seen in logs is replicable with the macro.

Tintinabula

I think you'll find that the time between casts has more to do with the actual animation firing or not. Like if i set the time between casts at .080 a few casts will go off..not all.. the lowest i could get with all casts to fire was .240 (and that's fairly slow.)

bruceb14_ESO5

I wonder if part of it is which skills are macro'd and in what order? Since there are skills that take priority, animation canceling.

rotiferuk

All the game-pad profilers allow button presses to be chained. So do the high end gaming mice and keyboards. They also allow auto-fire.

Nexus66

Yep few weeks ago i was killed few times by certain Nightblade ... Black...w .
And all i saw was ambush and 2 sec after i was dead ... on recap window there like 6 - 7 abilities which is impossible to fire in such short period of time ... he must be very skill full or maybe some kind of alien .. i dunno .. and yes my main is Nightblade and i cannot do that because i am not "skilled" like some people are

Armitas

bruceb14_ESO5 wrote: »

@Dleatherus, like you, I do have the ability to use macros and have considered 'returning the favor'. Naga Keyboard and Mouse both easily programmed. Haven't wanted to be pointed out as the exploiter or cheater, yet if this practice is completely legit, why not?

I sent a ticket in about 2 months ago asking about macros. I said that others are using them and eventually I will need to use them to compete, and that I would like to know if this is allowed or not so that I can stand on equal footing with those who use them. I have never gotten a response on that issue. I still have never used them despite having a n52 nostromo.

_________

A good example of what macoring can do can be shown in the battlefield 2 hand gun. The handgun will fire as fast as you can left click. So people macroed a series of left clicks, reduced the delay, hold and release of each left click so that the entire magazine could be emptied in a single instant. The same can be done here. Macro Left click, skill, right click then reduce the hold release and delay to the minimum the game can handle giving you a distinct advantage over direct human input.

Grim13

rotiferuk wrote: »

All the game-pad profilers allow button presses to be chained. So do the high end gaming mice and keyboards. They also allow auto-fire.

One of the things Call of Duty actually does right with it's online play is ban programmable controller users (3 days -1rst offense)... I think ZOS should take a similar stance.

Macros, et. al., shouldn't be used in PvP.

If you want to use them in PvE... go nuts... but it's an unfair advantage in PvP. Especially, when you consider how you can chain animation cancelled abilities.

pitdemon_ESO

www.autohotkey.com
http://www.autoitscript.com/site/autoit/
www.lua.org
http://www.actool.net/



You don't need fancy hardware to make or use macros.

The same scripting language that's used in all the ESO addons? Yeah, you can use it for macros.

This is an old subject that always comes up from people that don't really know anything about macros, just that they are doing something that he can't or doesn't understand.

May as well just say you're using hacks/magic/voodoo and be done with it

Kypho

Dleatherus wrote: »

it seems that this is another 'gray area' for ZOS

the devs have been made aware of it, and nothing clear has come back from them

since members of our guild have been 'one shot killed' by these animation cancelling macros that deal insane amounts of damage all at once, we have been experimenting with macros and giving feedback to the devs (why they aren't aware of this or able to replicate for themselves is for a another discussion)

so far we have not only been able to stack an ungodly amount of damage, but by tweaking the timing between the abilities, we have actually been able to get some of the abilities to register as double and triple damage on the FTC add on

- it might in part explain some of the crazy death recap screenshots folks have been posting

all of our findings are passed onto the devs

D.

p.s. no innocent players were harmed during our experiments - we like to do our research on known macro'ers

there are no innocent players in pvp :P

Kypho

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

www.autohotkey.com
http://www.autoitscript.com/site/autoit/
www.lua.org
http://www.actool.net/



You don't need fancy hardware to make or use macros.

The same scripting language that's used in all the ESO addons? Yeah, you can use it for macros.

This is an old subject that always comes up from people that don't really know anything about macros, just that they are doing something that he can't or doesn't understand.

May as well just say you're using hacks/magic/voodoo and be done with it

And since all know who used it and how used it, and all know they dont play fair, those ppl still have fun with doing that? :O

pitdemon_ESO

Kypho wrote: »

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

www.autohotkey.com
http://www.autoitscript.com/site/autoit/
www.lua.org
http://www.actool.net/



You don't need fancy hardware to make or use macros.

The same scripting language that's used in all the ESO addons? Yeah, you can use it for macros.

This is an old subject that always comes up from people that don't really know anything about macros, just that they are doing something that he can't or doesn't understand.

May as well just say you're using hacks/magic/voodoo and be done with it

And since all know who used it and how used it, and all know they dont play fair, those ppl still have fun with doing that? :O

Not sure that I understand you. In fact I'm sure I don't



In any case what the OP probably experienced was a lagswitch (whether due to actual or manufactured lag I couldn't begin to hazard a guess)

http://compnetworking.about.com/od/consumerelectronicsnetworks/f/lag_switches.htm

That or he got sniped and doesn't understand the mechanics of the game/bows/trajectory in general