Are stamina builds viable in pve?

Mr.Turtlesworth · July 2014

I like stamina a lot better for pvp but how is it for pve? I run bow/2h and between the two is a fair bit of AoE.

indytims_ESO · July 2014

Pretty much anything works for PVE. The game is incredibly easy no matter what build you make, as far as I've experienced.

Daethz · July 2014

From what I have gathered there is no viable stamina spec for any progression or competitive content.
Currently stamina weapons and builds are only for show, not for use.

Daethz · July 2014

indytims_ESO wrote: »

Pretty much anything works for PVE. The game is incredibly easy no matter what build you make, as far as I've experienced.

You are essentially questioning what viable even means.

Does it mean:
A: Good enough to use, yes, I suppose based on difficulty anything is good enough to use if your group is good enough to complete content.
B: Does it compete with other weapons or builds, No, it does not, Most Magicka builds beat all stamina builds with time to spare.

Akula · July 2014

indytims_ESO wrote: »

Pretty much anything works for PVE. The game is incredibly easy no matter what build you make, as far as I've experienced.

I dont believe he is talking about leveling. I believe he is talking about end game pve, trials and such. Which right now many groups will kick you for not wearing a dress and swinging a stick. Why I don't bother with end game pve.

Daethz · July 2014

Akula wrote: »

indytims_ESO wrote: »

Pretty much anything works for PVE. The game is incredibly easy no matter what build you make, as far as I've experienced.

I dont believe he is talking about leveling. I believe he is talking about end game pve, trials and such. Which right now many groups will kick you for not wearing a dress and swinging a stick. Why I don't bother with end game pve.

It also means I wont be participating in end game pve, because I refuse to depart with my double swords/axes.
Waving sticks around is not fun for me. Sorry Zenimax. Fix stamina builds and weapons or rename this game Elder Staffs Online.

Mr.Turtlesworth · July 2014

Daethz wrote: »

Akula wrote: »

indytims_ESO wrote: »

Pretty much anything works for PVE. The game is incredibly easy no matter what build you make, as far as I've experienced.

I dont believe he is talking about leveling. I believe he is talking about end game pve, trials and such. Which right now many groups will kick you for not wearing a dress and swinging a stick. Why I don't bother with end game pve.

It also means I wont be participating in end game pve, because I refuse to depart with my double swords/axes.
Waving sticks around is not fun for me. Sorry Zenimax. Fix stamina builds and weapons or rename this game Elder Staffs Online.

Well this sucks. Sadly I agree with you. Looks like I will be in Cyrodiil till they fix stam builds. I tried magicka but it had so much less burst in pvp I couldn't stick with it ( but it had a lot more AoE, which is why it's best in pve )
Keeping in mind I'm a dragonknight

Daethz · July 2014

A big issue, consequence of staffs, is class balancing is now entirely based on staff ability's and strength.

Mixed with ZOS's inaction of fixing stamina builds.

I fear complete doom of class balance going forward.

Loco_Mofo · July 2014

Viable yes, optimal no.

Ser Lobo · July 2014

Very viable. Won't have much problems in VR zones or VR dungeons. You can complete trials just fine, too, but don't expect to get near the top scores at all.

Honestly, I expect a few more buffs to be inbound for certain weapons and maybe heavy armor (here's hoping they remove the lame medium armor passive for combat rolls), but I also suspect we're going to see a couple staff and light armor nerfs. The gap, at the moment, can be considerable.

ferzalrwb17_ESO · July 2014

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

I like stamina a lot better for pvp but how is it for pve? I run bow/2h and between the two is a fair bit of AoE.

I prefer stamina for PvP because it's viable if you play to the few strengths it has and it's just more fun for me personally but a magicka build is still more dangerous in PvP. You just don't have to run it.

For endgame PvE you simply have to run skirts'n'sticks. If you can get some casual group to carry you through then you can see the content but you won't actually contribute a whole lot. That's why I have nothing to do with endgame PvE. If respeccing was cheaper I could, perhaps, create alternative light armour and switch morphs (which I have levelled) to make a PvE magicka build but it's quite expensive as it stands to switch to the mage that ZOS wants you to be just to run a trial/dungeon.

indytims_ESO · July 2014

Pretty much what others have said.

Viable? Yes.

Optimal? No.

Not -every- group is going to avoid you if you don't use stick and pajamas. That's just silly. But it could definitely help, yes.

Are Magicka builds better? Yes. But by no means is a Stamina build 'impossible'. Harder, more difficult, sure. So how difficult do you want it to be for you?

Westcoast14_ESO · July 2014

Workable for trials yes. But for DPS you're probably going to pull up short by more than 20% compared to what you could achieve with a magicka build.

Arsenic_Touch · July 2014

Westcoast14_ESO wrote: »

Workable for trials yes. But for DPS you're probably going to pull up short by more than 20% compared to what you could achieve with a magicka build.

More than 20% depending on the class.

ExiledKhallisi · July 2014

Highest sustained DPS in game is stamina based in med armor. As red guard in med armor can sustain 1.1k DPS

ferzalrwb17_ESO · July 2014

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Highest sustained DPS in game is stamina based in med armor. As red guard in med armor can sustain 1.1k DPS

Interesting. Class? Using what? On what? Does it work in trials?

Tavore1138 · July 2014

I have found it to be viable so far - VR12, PvE in all 3 factions completed pre-nerf, most group & public dungeons done, able to kill other people of all classes in PvP with reasonable success rates etc.

What I have not yet done is vet dungeons or trials - mainly due to waiting for other people I game with to finish their own journeys but I gather there is some problem with locating people who are willing to group with you unless you follow their personal build preferences so that may be an issues for anyone choosing a stamina build.

My build is a pair of axes DW (on both bars) Nightblade wearing 2h/5m, I use at least 2 stamina skills on each bar.

Amsel_McKay · July 2014

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Highest sustained DPS in game is stamina based in med armor. As red guard in med armor can sustain 1.1k DPS

Sustained for 30 seconds... Post a video of 3min sustained 1.1k dps with a stamina build and you will be a hero!

Endolith · July 2014

Certainly seems viable up to 50, at least. As DW Nightblade in all medium armor, level 44, I was able to kill five level 48 mobs without breaking a sweat. We will see how much that changes after 50.

Shunravi · July 2014

Huh.
Sounds like using bows and swords is completely unviable. I guess my friend and I should shelve our greatswords then. He will be devastated to learn that the vet dungeon speedruns we have been doing are impossible.
Oh wait...

Ashtaris · July 2014

I run two characters, one a VR2 DK Stamina based build in Heavy Armor, the other a VR1 Sorcerer in a dress and a stick. I can tell you for a fact that my poor DK has to work his arse off to do a kill, especially in mobs of 3 or more. Whereas for my Sorcerer, it's a piece of cake. Send out my Clanfear and Twilight for CC, a few good blasts from the staff and the other skill lines, and they are toast. So I don't think I would bother with another Stamina build again, they are just not viable in the current system.

Aeratus · July 2014

For single target dps, weapons can get kinda close (within 20% difference) to magicka builds, but the build and execution (including animation cancelling) has to be very fine tuned.

For AOE dps, optimal stamina builds can only get 60%-70% of the damage of magicka. If AOE ultimates are excluded, then well-played stamina builds are only probably 40%-60% the damage of magicka for AOE.

Also, in order for stamina builds to be effective in high end group play, they have to know exactly what they are doing. Many times, they don't, and even in vet dungeons, you find stamina NBs who have not idea what veil of blades or power extraction is.

Therefore, if you are in a PUG group with two stamina dps, there is doubt as to whether your party will be good enough to make it through. On the other hand, if you have two staff-wielding dps, you'll at least know that they have some degree of effectiveness.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

I like stamina a lot better for pvp but how is it for pve? I run bow/2h and between the two is a fair bit of AoE.

alright your getting a lot of BS responses . Ill break it down. Just about any build will suffice 1-50 you'll have a faster time of it with a staff while lvling. now with the nerfs to VR lvling zones your doable with a stam build. Once you are in end game doing VR dungeons you can squeak by with satam build and Dress and stick will severly out perform you. once you hit the last two VR dungeons , COH and Trials no your Build is no longer viable it will not work and you will likely be thrown from any group if you refuse switch to a caster spec, and rightfuly so. the trials require for individuals to produce a sustanied DPS number that Stamina builds cannot produce. this game is broken on all fronts in the PVE end game from balance to itemization. It was clearly not ready for release this issue has been going on for three months and ZOs has nerfed far more then they have fixed knowing Stmaina builds were broken. and most of the nerfs hurt Stam builds far more then it hurt the casters

lathbury · July 2014

Couldn't agree more with the above post. I ran stam dw/ dw or dw/ bow from the start to v12 got speed runs on vet dung etc. the problem comes in trials and crypt of hearts your burst will count for squat and your lack of spell resist makes you very vulnerable. It's not all doom and gloom your med armour dw build will serve you fine in pvp. Because I specced attributes to health I have my dress outfit with magika and my medium armour with stam. There are enough skill points to skill for both. This means when stam is balanced bang change outfit ready to rock the blades in endgame pve.

Aeratus · July 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

once you hit the last two VR dungeons , COH and Trials no your Build is no longer viable it will not work and you will likely be thrown from any group if you refuse switch to a caster spec

For trials, it is very much possible that you will be thrown out, since they tend to be elitist.

I don't think you'll be thrown out of dungeon groups automatically, since they are much more casual. Even for COH, I've completed this dungeon two times with archer dps. COH is ok with stamina builds as long as the magicka dps and/or CC is strong (and at V12 level, even the tank might be a destro staff tank to add further variability in the group's overall dps).

NorthernFury · July 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

once you hit the last two VR dungeons , COH and Trials no your Build is no longer viable it will not work and you will likely be thrown from any group if you refuse switch to a caster spec

For trials, it is very much possible that you will be thrown out, since they tend to be elitist.

I don't think you'll be thrown out of dungeon groups automatically, since they are much more casual. Even for COH, I've completed this dungeon two times with archer dps. COH is ok with stamina builds as long as the magicka dps and/or CC is strong (and at V12 level, even the tank might be a destro staff tank to add further variability in the group's overall dps).

Short version: CoH is doable with a stam build if the rest of the group is willing to carry you.

Nala_ · July 2014

not currently, but they will be.

kitsinni · July 2014

For all Vet dungeons including CoH yes it is fine. I have been through them with DPS that used stamina and we have beat them .. all of them. As far as trials you would have to find a group actually doing them which is probably harder than being able to complete it with a stamina build.

If you have still have a good magicka pool and use your class and stamina abilities together it can be viable. You probably won't be the top DPS in a group but they are not as bad as people claim.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

I like stamina a lot better for pvp but how is it for pve? I run bow/2h and between the two is a fair bit of AoE.

alright your getting a lot of BS responses . Ill break it down. Just about any build will suffice 1-50 you'll have a faster time of it with a staff while lvling. now with the nerfs to VR lvling zones your doable with a stam build. Once you are in end game doing VR dungeons you can squeak by with satam build and Dress and stick will severly out perform you. once you hit the last two VR dungeons , COH and Trials no your Build is no longer viable it will not work and you will likely be thrown from any group if you refuse switch to a caster spec, and rightfuly so. the trials require for individuals to produce a sustanied DPS number that Stamina builds cannot produce.

Aeratus wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

once you hit the last two VR dungeons , COH and Trials no your Build is no longer viable it will not work and you will likely be thrown from any group if you refuse switch to a caster spec

For trials, it is very much possible that you will be thrown out, since they tend to be elitist.

I don't think you'll be thrown out of dungeon groups automatically, since they are much more casual. Even for COH, I've completed this dungeon two times with archer dps. COH is ok with stamina builds as long as the magicka dps and/or CC is strong (and at V12 level, even the tank might be a destro staff tank to add further variability in the group's overall dps).

I dont think its because of being elitists. its because the trials are not Do able with Stamina DPS. The DPs checks are hard. it requires DPs to be doing 1.k + sustained. Stmaina builds cannot sustain1.k + over 5 minutes its simply not doable. they will burst and drop down to a 450 to 600 sustained. same with COH the reason you were sucessful in COH is the magica DPS picked up the DPs you were no producing and pumped out a 1.5 k sustained. Likely a NB or DK with Dress and stick. People throw Stamina builds out or dont invite them because its not fair to the other 11 people trying to make the DPS check to progress. It has nothing to do with elitism its pragmatism and the community did not create this dynamic ZOS did with the *** balance of this game.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

kitsinni wrote: »

For all Vet dungeons including CoH yes it is fine. I have been through them with DPS that used stamina and we have beat them .. all of them. As far as trials you would have to find a group actually doing them which is probably harder than being able to complete it with a stamina build.

If you have still have a good magicka pool and use your class and stamina abilities together it can be viable. You probably won't be the top DPS in a group but they are not as bad as people claim.

are you producing 1.k DPS in your stamina build?

Nestor · July 2014

I have been going around doing the Public and Group dungeons with my DK who is usually leveled over the dungeon. Which means I get no Ultimate, so I have to do everything with Mana until that runs out, then Stamina with an occasional spell ability with the Bosses. It just takes longer. Veteran might be a different story