Am i a bad healer?

Thralgaf · July 2014

Never underestimate the power of healing springs. I tend to keep it up at all times. My main healing bar is springs, mutagen, combat prayer, and the single target oh crap heal. Secondary is group heal, cleansing ritual or w/e it's called, and siphon. The only time I wipe is if DPS is too low or folks are just being stupid in red areas. Three tanks in a group is a terrible idea... ESO dungeons are really just a DPS race. However, I would mention that sometimes newer players assume three DK in a group are three tanks-this isn't always the case- DK can put out the highest DPS in the game if played correctly.

kitsinni · July 2014

Beesting wrote: »

Any advice? Should i just open with rapid regeneration, count to 16, apply it again, and add combat prayer every 8 secs?

To be honest this right here is kind of "bad healer" philosophy. You need to be healing people when they need to be healed. Rapid regen should be for before fights or you magicka is full and you don't have anyone to heal only. You should only be attacking with staff when either A) Everyone is full on health or

you are trying to get magicka back.

Obsidian shield is an odd choice if you ask me. You could be throwing a shield on the person with the least health why are you picking a shield that only applies to you and spending a lot of magicka to buff heals for a couple heals. Maybe some people like it but you could either spend all your magicka to buff your healing for six seconds or you could buff everyone in the groups weapon damage for 45 seconds while increasing your healing. It cost more to buff your healing by 33% for six seconds than throwing down another combat prayer, healing springs or two rapid regens.

WyndStryke · July 2014

Awesome post from @Merlin13KAGL‌

The only thing I haven't seen suggested so far is that you record a hard dungeon run, and post it somewhere - it's much easier to get an idea of what players are like if you can watch it.

However, if this has only happened once in many dungeon runs, I would suggest that it is probably the fault of the person complaining. Or the odd group setup with 3 tanks.

jrgray93 · July 2014

WyndStryke wrote: »

The only thing I haven't seen suggested so far is that you record a hard dungeon run, and post it somewhere - it's much easier to get an idea of what players are like if you can watch it.

Well, I almost suggested it. Kind of. Sorta.

Well, not really.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · July 2014

As a healer, I can say this. I can not heal anyone if they run outside of the range of the healing spell and when you have 3 other people trying to go different directions, it's impossible to keep everyone healed at all times. It's not your fault if they aren't staying close and keeping the mob off of you so you can heal.

traigusb14_ESO2 · July 2014

The the levels you are playing at, not sure why you have 3 tanks with no other specs. Even as a relatively low DPS Tank Templar I have a DPS/buff/backup heal spec. (And I can main heal groups that aren't triple soloing in the same place).

I often end up in groups where someone else wants to tank, so I switch to backup mode and usually watch the guy die from not blocking, standing in red (some you can some you can't, never without blocking). Usually they spam DPS skills and wonder why the healer can't heal through. Wearing heavy armor and owning a shield doesn't make you a tank.

I have seen this up to Vet 5-7 ish regularly, and a lot more with Craiglorn delves where people grind up and don't know how to tank, or DPS without knowing how to work wit ha tank (grouping with solo builds).

The taunts are all single, but they do have a red fire graphic now so you can see if something has the 15 second taunt on it or not. With 3 people tank specced, nothing should have been on you.

zgrssd · July 2014

Beesting wrote: »

Hi, yesterday i was doing blessed crucible with three tanks. I was the healer.

A old saying of mine is:
Three tanks are two DPS to few.
The tank binds the toughest foes that are immune to CC.
The DPS kill of the weakest foes fast, so the enemy DPS drops below what the healer can do. Healers 0th, Ranged first, melee second.
Continue as CC's break till all enemies are dead.

If you got three people runnign around with shield+heavy this is propably not going to work out.

Beesting wrote: »

Am i a bad healer? Should i never attack any mobs in a dungeon?

I am level 49 and have been a healer since level 20, so it is pretty much maxed out. I am a DK woodelf with light armor, mages stone, magica enchants on all pieces.
My magica regen is overcharged at 70, i am vamp with supernatural recovery etc.

Being Vampire in Blessed Crucible is not the wisest course of action. So you yourself might have taken a bit too much damage.

Beesting wrote: »

On my bar i have rapid regeneration, combat prayer and quick siphon. (And green dragon blood and burning talons for emergencies) bar 2 is flame with pulsar etc for normal questing.

The thing is that the bosses always seem to attack me first. Especially when i open with quick siphon cast on the boss.

At least wait till the tank got his taunt in. Attacking before the tank as any role is just bad.
Some bosses have the tedency to random aggro. I think one or two in BC were this kind (the last in particular).

I have been confused because i have the pasives essence drain 2/2 en cycle of life 2/2 and do a heavy attack on bosses and ads all the time. Seemed like a good idea.

It is a nice - effectively free - heal with some DPS rolled into it.
If you got nothing more important to do, jsut hitting foes with heavy attacks is the way to go.

Beesting wrote: »

And i read that eso is different from other mmo's, mobs attack everyone, not just the tank.
In the blessed crucible last night two of them cam after me, while the other two were fighting the three tanks. Not very nice.

Then this means at least one tank was not doing it's job.

Beesting wrote: »

Any advice? Should i just open with rapid regeneration, count to 16, apply it again, and add combat prayer every 8 secs?
I think my magica regen can sustain it without using my purple restoration staff with a purple magica drain enchant on it for the heavy attack.

First, get a buff tracker addon. Even if it only tracks Rapid Regen on yourself, this is still an invaluable hint to when you have to recast it and helps greatly with resource management.
Keep the regen buff online all the time. Other healing powers are there to burst heal or preemtively buff, but the 16 second hot is your main heal and will do the most healing overall.

The Healing Staff shield is your emergency heal (it's stronger the lower HP the target is and targets lowest HP player).

Also note that due to a bug, Healing effects scales with weapon damage, not spell damage (for the time being). Consider putting Flaming Weapons on your second bar and keep it online - it boosts your healing and the teams damage output at the same time.

One of the obisidian shield moprhs was changed so it ups the healing you do (instead of giving you more shield). So it is a team shield+healing done buff.

Summing up:
The first job as healer is to keep the the HoT alive. Cast other healing staff heals as nessesary. And the first line of skills to look at is the healing staff line.
Also consider starting fights buffed with Molten Weapons, Obsidian Shield and that healign staff AoE buff. Cast the DK stuff from the second bar and quickly switch back.

Only use your staff to do DPS if you got nothing better to cast or are out of mana and need the free heal.
Consider a Mana steal enchantment for the staff.

Azzuria · July 2014

mips_winnt wrote: »

Beesting wrote: »

The thing is that the bosses always seem to attack me first. Especially when i open with quick siphon cast on the boss.

Beyond that if you're trying your best and learning from your mistakes then no you're not a "bad" healer, try to have fun while you're doing it and ignore the people that give you a hard time, it's a game after all and healing can be a tough role to fill much of the time.

Happy Hunting!

^This.

Most folks in PUGs will always find fault with people not themselves. A bad ( actually bad and stubborn in their active ignorance ) tank will always blame the DPS. Uncontrolled DPS will always blame the tank and everyone will always blame the Healer.

timidobserver · July 2014

If you have to ask...

DenverRalphy · July 2014

timidobserver wrote: »

If you have to ask...

If he has to ask... Then... What? What are you alluding to? That he sucks? General consensus and participation throughout the thread actually demonstrates the OP is ahead of the game compared to most people on the forum or in game.

Or were you just trying to throw a jab just for the sake of doing it?

Fleymark · July 2014

Been meaning to ask, and I guess this is as good a place as any, what actual ability or passive lets normal staff attacks regen magicka?

It's been mentioned in this thread and I've seen people talk about it in chat, but going thru my nooblet resto staff templar's skills I can't find anything that does this.

If it's been mentioned and I missed it, apologies.

Ran thru the first tier group dungeons with my healer and it was a blast, btw. Really enjoying it.

RinaldoGandolphi · July 2014

No your not a bad healer, intact I don't think such a thing exists, if your casting heals your doing what your supposed to.

when I heal in my sorc I use the following:

1. Sanguine Altar from undaunted - 40% health regen standing inside it, blood funnel synergy heals.

2. Rapid regen - easily spammable.

3. Combat prayer.

4. Steadfast Ward.

5. Trapping webs or siphon

as long as your group is smart enough to stay inside the Altar effect they wont die, it makes it easier for you to keep them up, you see someone get low on health ward them, they should be smart enough to press x when they get hurt to blood funnel heal off the altar.

trapping webs from undaunted imo I like over siphon because it snares the target, and you tank can activate synergy off it to do damage and summon 2 spiders to attack and keep aggro off the healer and dps in the group...its really an under rated support skill, so is blood altar/sanguine altar, the altar is a great group healing skill for dungeons. Good tanks and dps will use it when they get hurt, I have been thanked many times for putting up the altar during boss fights.

Artemiisia · July 2014

Neyephe wrote: »

Really depends, I heal on a templar and on a sorc, so I've had good and bad experiences with both. On the sorc, it is very important that people are infront of me or all grouped up, or they risk not getting healed since heals from the staff are directional or in a limited area. If the other players were spread out or moved away from you, then it was their fault, not yours. You should not be expected to chase people down to heal them. If they were standing in the red, it was their fault, not yours. You cant heal stupid.

Templars are a little easier to heal with as they have spells that dont require party members to be in front or in close proximity.

If you have good mana regen and dont seem to run out of magicka, then the fact you had 3 tanks and no dps should not matter too much, unless the boss berserks or something like that.

Im a sorcerer healer as second job, healing in dungeons/trails and pvp. I agree with most of what you are saying, though not that its the people in the group that needs to position themselves in front of me, me job as healer is to make sure I stand in the right position and not being a lacy healer, I have seen this way to much, I dislike healers that just stand over in the corner and heals and wipes the group over and over again.

Healers Job is to make everybody stay alive. What I do agree on is if they stay in red aoe bubbles or outside the safe zones of some dungeons, its their own fault.

back to op, its not normal for a DK to be a healer, thats templars and sorcerers that have the best heals ingame.

if you wanna keep healing, you might wanna go with something like this for your castbar.

From Restrostaff line
Healing springs, mutegen, combat prayer, keep these 3 dots on all the players all the time, just look at your own char, if you have the dot

From Mage guild line
to keep healing use spell symmetry morphed from Equilibrium, u can heal yourself, right after using it

And to get extra crit from Mage guild line as well
Inner light morphed from mages light

Natjur · July 2014

When I heal, its very hard when

(1) Fire dungeons and PUG that joins is a vampire and keeps standing in fire

(2) Range attack bosses and everyone goes into melee range (why some people don't have secondary range weapons, I have no idea!!!)

(3) Players that will not load any self heals or damage reduction skills on their bar (healers do their best, but sometimes you need to do something to help yourself)

Other then those issues
having Sanguine Altar is very useful.

Artemiisia wrote: »

From Mage guild line
to keep healing use spell symmetry morphed from Equilibrium, u can heal yourself, right after using it

I was sure you could not self heal for 4 seconds after using this

PBpsy · July 2014

Fleymark wrote: »

Been meaning to ask, and I guess this is as good a place as any, what actual ability or passive lets normal staff attacks regen magicka?

It's been mentioned in this thread and I've seen people talk about it in chat, but going thru my nooblet resto staff templar's skills I can't find anything that does this.

If it's been mentioned and I missed it, apologies.

Ran thru the first tier group dungeons with my healer and it was a blast, btw. Really enjoying it.

The only thing that will do that are NB siphoning strikes toggle on, spirits siphon on the target,and Gliphs of absorb magicka on your staff.

Akiainavas · July 2014

You said there were 3 tanks and a healer... how does that work ?

Beesting wrote: »

The thing is that the bosses always seem to attack me first. Especially when i open with quick siphon cast on the boss.

And i read that eso is different from other mmo's, mobs attack everyone, not just the tank.

Sure, that's a problem you could point out, but then again, with 3 tanks you should almost never have aggro on yourself...

Can't really say anything because I wasn't there, but before you call yourself a bad healer - although looking things up and trying to improve is always a good thing - you should try assembling a group with 1 tank, a healer and 2 good damage dealers and see how it goes, because to me - it sounds a bit like a group structure problem, and not your healing.

zgrssd · July 2014

timidobserver wrote: »

If you have to ask...

Then he is smater then anyone who does not ask.
And propably smarter then anyone trying to do unfounded personal cirtique on that low level.

Akiainavas wrote: »

Can't really say anything because I wasn't there, but before you call yourself a bad healer - although looking things up and trying to improve is always a good thing - you should try assembling a group with 1 tank, a healer and 2 good damage dealers and see how it goes, because to me - it sounds a bit like a group structure problem, and not your healing.

As I said earlier:
3 Tanks are two DPS too few.
Tanks can't quite keep (and survive) aggro on all the mobs, but they should be able to bind the bulk/tough guys without dying.
DPS go for: Healer > Magic Ranged > Bow Ranged > Melee > Whatever the tank binds last
Healer just heals and ocassionally does DPS when he nothing better to do with his time.

It's a basic technique that works for 99% of all fights in 100% of the MMO's that use the Holy Trinity (Tank, DPS, Healer).

With two DPS too few,
plus a PuG,
plus at least one Vampire in Blessed Curcible (half the map is a volcano),
plus potentially weak players that seek faults in others to avoid seeing thier own faults:
Even the best healer would have difficulty keeping a group alive und those circumstances.

Also a nice old saying:
If the tank dies, it is the healers fault.
If the healer dies, it is the tanks fault.
If a DPS dies, it is his own fault.

Grand_Wazoo · July 2014

Three tanks out of a group of four with laments of ineptitude regarding the lone healer? Seems to me the "tanks" need to play with some survivability in mind (like us regular folks) and NOT tie the healer to the whipping post because you weren't able to keep them all from using up a soul gem.

Try just hanging back for a second or two and allow a tank to start the fight..hopefully your group will have a ranged fighter to cover the tank as well as you, and even a tank to protect the healer. After all, we can't all carry the ball all the time.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · July 2014

Tanks, DPS all irrelevant

Beesting wrote: »

Hi, yesterday i was doing blessed crucible with three tanks. I was the healer.

I would guess the tanks were sub-par (aka n o o b s) not the healer (you).

Having heavy armour & shield doesn't make someone a tank in this game. A person who has no knowledge more likely.

When I have to tank, I do it with my Templar, in 5 LA 2 MA shield with Hist Bark 5 part set bonus and Twilight. Believe me that is what is needed to tank, in VR dungeons or Craglorn.
Enough STA regen to keep the block up, and enough magicka to spam Inner Beast.

While at the same time, I keep my Ext Ritual up, and cast Puncturing Sweep to keep me healed and do damage. While rolling (aka dodge), on the floor the moment the red markers appear.

Standing in front of a mob, spamming Puncture, while expecting from a healer to keep you alive, is the worst someone can do on this game.

Tatuaje · July 2014

I'll toss in my .02

As others have stated, without being there, kind of hard to comment. I do agree "3" tanks is at least 2 too many. Two should have been in DPS mode.

As a straight Temp healer (other than solo questing) I cannot really comment on the healing only with the restro staff, not sure if I could do it, too many of the temp class heals are better IMO.

My setup: My points are 4 in magika and the rest in health. I use glyphs and traits to get just below just below soft cap on the smurf juice. Eat my food and almost doubles the blue bar. I typically go 2 heals then an attack with the staff to keep topped off in magika. So unless we have people not avoiding the red circles, I do "ok" on magika.

As to the agro, it seems there is an imaginary white light on that restro staff that attracts the mobs like moths to a porch light. I usually kite the first 4 - 9 secs letting the tank/DPS do their job, then start the heals. As noted, most people carry at least one personal heal.

To up my heals at as a VR6, I use the VR1 Warlock bling, five Night Mothers and 3 Willow, Ritual Mundus and I have Mage Light active. My % to crit is about 49% IIRC. I was using the Sanctuary set, but the crit build feels like I have better heals going out. I am thinking of changing out the Ritual mundus for the Thief to boost the crit a bit more. My 4 healing skills I bounce around depending on the battle.

As a side note, I have a level 16 DK in light and destro staff using this setup as well and is crushing the landscape. A bit of glass cannon, but laying down some DPS.

I have always healed in MMOs, this game is like no other. I find it fairly difficult to keep people up as I have in other games. I believe someone noted there is a lot more responsibility for the others to play more "correctly" and not depend on the healers to keep them alive, I agree.

I also agree, if you complete the run and snag the loot..... You must have healed well enough

kitsinni · July 2014

Until I read Tatuaje post it didn't even occur to me that the OP didn't mention having mage light on. That is a must have number one thing that should be on every healers bar!

Thralgaf · July 2014

As a Templar, it's not about healing ONLY with the resto staff. It's about understanding early on that the Templar heals, while shiny and cool, are not majika friendly. Until Templar's are given a viable majika management ability, the resto staff heals are your bread and butter.

kitsinni · July 2014

Thralgaf wrote: »

As a Templar, it's not about healing ONLY with the resto staff. It's about understanding early on that the Templar heals, while shiny and cool, are not majika friendly. Until Templar's are given a viable majika management ability, the resto staff heals are your bread and butter.

I have healed through about everything with a templar and I don't agree. I use breath of life as my bread and butter. Resto staff is mostly there for regaining magicka and a Rapid Regen as a buffer.

timidobserver · July 2014

@zgrssd If you have to ask you need improvement means if you can't tell whether you are failing or not you can't improve. The first step is being able to recognize when you fail.

Though honestly the OP was not failing based on what I read. Average players with average gear cannot survive face tanking those beetles. Particularly if there are vamps in the group. Dps need to CC and range dps.

I found volcanic rune to be critical in that encounter.

Gecko · July 2014

Here is a question, was he yelling at you after wiping on the beetles? Were they trying to tank multiple beetles on one tank or were the tanks all fighting their own? The beetles in that fight do way too much damage to tank more than one. The best option is to kite them. Have someone kite all but one and burn the one (which really should also be kited). The beetles hit way too hard to just tank and spank that fight.

Also, if you have multiple tanks and they are all taunting it can cause issues with agro. If they taunt too much in a specific time frame, the target will randomly agro and cannot be taunted for 15 seconds or so.

Sounds like you are healing fine though. Tanking in this game is about moving and not taking the big unnecessary hits a lot more than it is about absorbing damage.

Bleakraven · July 2014

As a healer, I often find myself attacking the boss whenever I can as the resto staff grants healing bonuses when attacking as well. I like that I'm just staring at health bars and healing, I like contributing to damage too, even in a small way.

Merlin13KAGL · July 2014

PBpsy wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Been meaning to ask, and I guess this is as good a place as any, what actual ability or passive lets normal staff attacks regen magicka?

It's been mentioned in this thread and I've seen people talk about it in chat, but going thru my nooblet resto staff templar's skills I can't find anything that does this.

If it's been mentioned and I missed it, apologies.

Ran thru the first tier group dungeons with my healer and it was a blast, btw. Really enjoying it.

The only thing that will do that are NB siphoning strikes toggle on, spirits siphon on the target,and Gliphs of absorb magicka on your staff.

@Fleymark, not sure if you mean normal as in not-heavy or normal as in not-restro.

I've always heard, albeit unofficially, that restro staff also restores some small amount of magicka. Those with addons should be able to confirm or deny this.

Also, the Glyph, as @Pbpsy mentions above. It's generally not much, but it does add up.

Merlin13KAGL · July 2014

zgrssd wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

If you have to ask...

Then he is smater then anyone who does not ask.
And propably smarter then anyone trying to do unfounded personal cirtique on that low level.

@zgrssd, bingo. A good group will help you get better, not just complain because they don't know how to.

@timidobserver‌ , just because you question your methods doesn't automatically make them wrong or inferior. I'd rather ask and be told I'm doing ok than assume and be wrong.

Not asking does not automatically mean you're doing it right, either.

There's always a better way. Kudos to the OP for seeking it out, regardless of his current 'level.'

cracker81 · July 2014

Fire Beatles hit hard and it is more like a kite fight. Hit and run

timidobserver · July 2014

@Merlin13KAGL‌
Yup, never said not asking means you are doing it right or that you should not question your methods. I am only implying that the first step is reaching the point that you know when you fail. You can then strive to fail less.